–> I just wanted to get this out of the way first: But you’re all assuming, too, and judging what I might do because of the label I give myself (exclusionist). Not everyone in the same community acts the same way as everyone else in it. For example, in the trans community can be separated as Transmed and Tucute, there can be extremists in every community, some can be in-between, and others can be mellow/don’t care about it. In any community, there will be these types of people (ofc there’s a majority and minority in every community, too, and the percentage of types of people can result in what type of community it is and what others see this community as).
With the examples you give of exclusionists attacking aces, I’m sorry on my behalf for them to act in such an ill manner with no thought of what their actions would result in.
But your community (inclusionists) also do this too, an example is even on this very thread:
–> However, you can’t just lump up every person in the same community to act the same way (like what I stated earlier). There are many other posts I seen where inclusionists attacked exclusionists or vice versa, but YOU aren’t those people, so I won’t bring any posts of fights between other people on other posts anymore because it’s not worth any “real” evidence to present in my case.
I also don’t treat anyone with impoliteness the best I can even if we have different opinions. I’ll rather hear their side and why they think it (I stand by psychology, philosophy, and respect). I wouldn’t ever in my life send death threats.
People can still act polite (thank you for the compliment earlier) even if they don’t have the same view as you. That’s what’s what I find so beautiful/interesting is how different everyone is. I always believe that’s a reason for a cause even if that person finds it unjustifiable. So, I try to have an open mind when I’m in a debate/RL argument because there’s more than what the surface level shows.
It’s honestly so disheartening to think that I’m “faking” my kindness, you don’t know anything about me and my personality, so why make such a big jump to that conclusion? Would you rather have me be uncivilized and spew out insults which further nothing in our conversation?
Also to the response that I’m complaining about “LGBTQ+” or being “anti-queer”, those are both assumptions too because I am not those things. I literally do not care how you spell out the LGBT community because it really just means the same thing with its core value. Anti-queer? What does that even mean? Do you mean in the sense of the word? Because I believe words have no meaning, it’s just syllables and sounds, and it’s up to you to decide if it has an impact to you (that’s why there’s a way to redeem words). But it’s not up to you to decide how others should feel about other words because you are not them, for us, we are comfortable with the word queer but not for others. So, labeling a whole community queer without even knowing everybody is such a stretch.
–> Also, no, my best friend is asexual and we talked about asexuality and we both were civilized (since we’re really good friends and we know each other personally, I’ll talk more about her view later). Even though we disagree on asexuality, we still remind friends and I still respected her for who she is.
So continuing on, I’ll be responding to your (@celciusdiscourse) because I don’t have that much time to reply to every one of you (but I’ll bring up some screenshots of what others have said).
‘…You’re the one who is mistaken - we all know exactly what the Official Stance is for y’all, and we neither a) buy it, nor b) agree. Heteroromantic ace people aren’t performing straightness right enough for the StraightTM people, are rejected for it, and experience [a] [lot] [of] [the] [same] [things] that we the ‘acceptable’ LGBTQ+ people generally categorize under ‘oppression’ ”
I’m sorry but there is an official stance? Because sometimes there’s miscommunication and my “official” stance might be different from how you view my stance (and like what I said earlier, not everyone in a community thinks the same). All we’re saying (or what I’m saying if it’s not part of the “official” stance) is that asexuality isn’t inherently LGBT because it’s only tells the amount of attraction you give out and not tell what sex you’re attracted to/if you’re trans.
Replying to that, what do you (@careful-knives) define asexuality? It seems like everyone is shifting the definition of being asexuality. For example, my best friend (the one I mentioned earlier) said that being asexual means you experience NO sexual attraction, none at all. She says that personally sexual topics makes her uncomfortable and she doesn’t want to experience those things at all, saying that other asexuals might be okay with sexual topics (ie. maybe talking about sex education and how it needs to improve in school systems) but never wanting to participate in any sexual activity.
I agree with her (with the definition, not the being uncomfortable talking about sex-related stuff) because the “a” in asexuality is a root word meaning “without”/“absence” [link] so asexuality means the absence of sexuality/sexual attraction*. So, it can be measured in a sense of not being measured since there’s none to be measured in the first place (sorry if that was confusing). Think of it this way, if you call asexuality a sexuality it’s like saying atheism is a religion
*(another thing my friend and I disagree on, she thinks asexuality is a sexuality while I think not).
While on the official AVEN website [link], they also agree with my friend’s definition. Though, the last part of the first paragraph says there’s a diverse experience of “arousal”. If they mean they meant that asexuals went through different experiences of how they knew they weren’t into sexual things, then understandable. If they’re saying that asexuals can experience different heights of “arousal” things cause of how diverse it is, then it would be confusing because it’s going against their first statement.
This artist says that there might be some sexual attraction but it’s close to little. Also saying that asexuals can’t be lesbian, gay, bi, (or pan, or other mogai sexualities if you have that opinion) because it’s saying no gender [link].
Even these two people who are asexuals disagree with each other on asexuality. The first person not wanting anything sexualized while the other person says that BDSM can be non-sexual (which is not true because if you search up the definition of BDSM it’s off of erotic play). [Forgot the link, sorry]
[link] ← You should read the reblogs of responses to ^ this ask.
This person thinks that asexuals can have the ability to buy sexual things (ex. The one they’re holding which is used for masturbation which is sexual). [Link, Tumblr Post] [Actual Video]
Similar to the person above,this artist thinks that you still are asexual even if you like sexual things [1st Link] [2nd Link]
Asexuals even start debates with other asexuals on what the definition of asexuality is about (click on the links for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th picture link.) Asexuality is built on a definition people can’t seem to agree on which just lessens its real stability. Even on this thread, someone says, “You can’t measure my sexual attraction [since they’re asexual].” Ofc, I can’t. How can I measure something if it’s a lack of it?
“Sounds like they should be included to me. Most likely we should treat them the same as intersex people - for which the general consensus rn is that ‘on a case by case basis, if they wish to be included, they have that option’.”
I don’t get what you’re trying to say, are you saying intersex people can be in the LGBT community if they so wish to be even if they’re cishet? Unless you’re saying that intersex people are a third gender, because they’re not [link] [link]. (More about the topic of inclusion in the TL;DR)
“I’ve seen exclusionists make fun of every single aspect of the entire existing a-spec community. From the flag to the cake joke to any puns they make. Cringe culture is weaponized against the entire community again and again. I’ve seen some of y’all try to lie and use the autistic and bi communities as weapons against the entire a-spec community…’aces stole purple from bis, let’s redesign their flag for them” shit? Guess so?) I’ve seen moodboards for ‘asexual adolf hitler’/ ‘asexual alex jones’/‘asexual donald trump’,”
[Here’s my opinion on humor*]. Also, I’m against cringe culture (I personally experience it and people making fun of my friends for cosplaying/being furries) and letting people have fun, but you should know this is on the internet and people will make jokes out of anything. There’s no limit to this platform. I also seen jokes about saying how Hitler was Gay [link], how Ben Shapiro is a trans icon [link], how bi people have only two brain cells [link]. Everyone can have the ability to make fun of everybody else (+ themselves). Being mocked/joked about isn’t oppression, it’s rude yes, if you take it personally, but it isn’t oppression since humor can be subjective (check link*). My best friend even makes asexual dark jokes and enjoyed it, and also joked about how the cake joke was ironic since cake also refers to ass [link]. And saying you like ass is y’know sexual. I’m also bi (says in my bio), and for the autistic community part it might just have been a misunderstanding. For example, how the True Crime Community and Teacher Crush Community fought over each other saying which community first gotten the “TCC” tag.
“This one here is also an example of the trend I was thinking about when I brought up exclusionists! The “asexuality is shitty bc it makes normal people/lgbt. people seem hypersexual by comparison”/”teaching teens about asexuality or saying that minors can identify as asexual is sexualizing minors, anyone under 16 is asexual by default”/”allosexual is a shitty word bc it makes us look hypersexual by comparison” trend. Thanks for giving me an excuse to elaborate I guess?”
??? I’m getting more and more confused. When did I say this? I’m saying that if asexuality should just be in the LGBT by default then that means hypersexuality should, too (it’s a question to make you think about this situation). Since both are the amount of sexual attraction that is given out and does not specify what sex you’re attracted to/if you’re trans. I’m a minor and I have hypersexuality, and I know other minors like me aren’t asexual by default because of personal experiences seeing others around me getting pregnant/sex related problems. So, I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove.
The LGBT there’s a higher chance of their parents not accepting them because of factors being played such as religion, stigmatism, personal bias, or just being swayed by propaganda news they heard since the LGBT has been around for ages* [link to first two] [link to second two]
(*Yes, I know the LGBT community didn’t start at January 1, 2004…
[and it went further back, and to my knowledge, the oldest known artifact/information that is confirmed surrounding LGBT is around 24th BC showing a gay, Egyptian couple, Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum. While the oldest known asexual artifact/information is just from May 30, 1997 an article called, “My life as an amoeba” by Zoe O'Reilly. I searched and searched but this is the oldest one I could find that’s about asexuality. So, can you (@korraseraprovide evidence of asexuality in the 60’s and 70’s from a credible source? But even so, how can you compare 24th BC to the 60-70’s? That’s a big time span.]
…but I did this to give a visual representation of people looking up LGBT vs Asexual )
TL;DR: “[T]he lgbt community has always been a political alliance between those who suffer from homophobia and transphobia, from the law or elsewhere, and aces don’t face violent discrimination in the same way gay and trans people do. they can certainly be victims of ignorance, but that’s certainly not on par with homophobia and transphobia, which is present everywhere and monitors every action of those either scared of being recognized as too noticably gay or those scared of being lumped in with us.” -@uwuregulator [link]
Like what I stated in my first reblog, differences aren’t bad. We should notice each other’s difference but not treat others differently because of these characteristics. It’s not an insult if someone doesn’t want you in their community, for example, I’m Asian but I wouldn’t want to be a member of the Black community cause that doesn’t make sense. I can listen to them and speak with them, but I am not part of them. There’s obvious differences between the problems LGBT people faces and asexuals (let me make a quick example right now: Sex is a very important part of history for LGBT people, sex-uality (lesbians, gays, bis), while asexuality is the lack of sex-ual attraction. Which are polar opposites; the communities having different core problems but might go through same obstacles (like what I’m going to mention next:)
and the example I mentioned (Asians, Blacks). It can have similarities like ignorance, bias, prejudice, but it doesn’t mean they’re the same. There’s nothing wrong with being different and being excluded. Just because you’re not part of something doesn’t mean you won’t get the same amount of respect. I’m part of the LGBT community but it doesn’t mean I’ll belittle straight people because they’re not part of the community. Why do you, inclusionists, feel like asexuals need to be forced into the LGBT community? We need to set a line of difference so it’s easier to focus on certain problems and stay organized. And asexuals have their OWN community, called AVEN, now and it’s easier to focus on their OWN problems because they’re similar.
[Here’s a good link to a masterpost about Ace Discourse; ex. Why asexuality isn’t oppressed, gatekeeping, the queer identify, etc. I feel like it’s good to sometimes go to posts/platforms with people that have the opposite view of yours and just read what they have to say without commenting/interacting. It opens your mind a little more since you can see the reasons they have to form their opinion, and you can research if the things they’re saying is actually correct or not (making your own counterclaim for future debates or actually learning something new) and you can better understand who you’re arguing with and maybe establish a line of respect (what I try to do with you guys but some of you just waving it off as “fake” kindness). Imo, you shouldn’t allow yourself to be constantly surrounded with people who think the same as you and neglecting other opinions solely based because it’s not the same as yours. This will only make you closed minded and consume information you only want to promote your opinion while ignoring the rest. (not saying you do this, I don’t want to assume, but I have seen a lot of people on this site do this, even the people in the same community as I am). For example, I’m still going through the masterlist you put in your TL;DR link and I’m learning more and more about your side and why they feel the way they do.]
P.S I’m sorry but this is my last reply. It’s not because I don’t want to further the conversation because of our different opinions, but because my mental health right now isn’t well. I deleted my instagram in order to get away from discourse but now I’m on tumblr running a discourse blog (ironic, huh?). Maybe once I get myself back together we can continue our conversation (if you wish so too), but I don’t know exactly when I might come back. All I know is that it’s going to take me maybe weeks or months to get better (imo self-improvement doesn’t happen in such a few days). Sorry for getting ramble-y, and I hope you have a good day! Also, advance Happy News Years!
