If Cap comics are just silly mindless entertainment, then having a silly twist isn't really offensive and people are overreacting. But if Cap's supposed to be a character we're emotionally invested in, if he's a broader symbol of what's good about America, democracy & freedom, then I do think it's kind of hurtful to take that hero away & turn him into a fictionalized version of a Nazi, even if they're saying Hydra is bad within the comic. Problem is, doesn't Marvel prefer the latter to be true?
I agree that we want you to be emotionally invested in the characters, and even that Cap is a broader symbol of what’s good about America. The part I disagree with is the idea that putting the hero/symbol in the worst possible place is a bad thing.
All this is focused on Captain America, who is a natural symbol for a lot of big American ideals. I’ve compared this story in the past to Superior Spider-Man, and people have argued that they don’t think it’s the same thing because of what Cap represents. Well…I disagree, for myself at least.
Spider-Man is a really important character, to me. I have said before that Spider-Man is my religion, and I really believe that with all my heart. I am a die-hard Atheist and I do not believe in or support religion. But all the good things people have told me they have gotten from religion in their lives? I got all of those things from Spider-Man. Morality, community, a way of looking at life…the idea that you need to try to do what’s right even if it’s to your own detriment, that you don’t do what’s right because it’s easy, you do it because it’s right and you might even suffer for it…all that is a big part of my personal belief system, and I think SO MUCH of that is rooted in Peter Parker and his trials and tribulations.
So, Superior Spider-Man. It was the story of Spidey’s greatest enemy, Doctor Octopus, defeating Spider-Man, taking his body and stealing his life and identity. Peter’s mind dies, and Otto Octavius lives on in hos body, taking his place.
And there were lots of fans who were outraged by this story. They were furious that we would have such an amazing hero be defeated, and that we would follow the story of a villain. Not to spoil it too much, I will just say that by the course of that series, by taking Peter to and even past his lowest point of dying and being gone…it actually reaffirmed all the wonderful things that I and those other fans love about Peter. It only through overcoming the greatest adversity that the full strength of the character can be shown. It’s the emotional and moral version of Spidey being trapped under the rubble in Spider-Man 33…he has to use EVERY OUNCE of his strength and determination to lift himself free.
And yes–some of those unhappy fans really did stop reading Spider-Man forever. Others read it and reached out to say they had been wrong and that they loved the full story when it came out.
To me, believing that he is and always has been an agent of the very forces he has fought against for his entire career sounds like the lowest possible point for Captain America. That’s why I want to see how he climbs back from it.
Yes.
Lets defend the story where Captain America becomes an effective Nazi to the story where Spider-Man becomes someone who also tried to commit mass genocide (multiple times) and tries/succeeded in raping people.
But let’s get a bit more specific
· Doc Ock isn’t Peter’s greatest enemy. Norman Osborn is. No one has displayed literally as much enmity towards Spider-Man as Norman has nor hurt him as much.
· Peter’s mind didn’t die. That’s literally what Ghost Peter was
· Superior Spider-Man reaffirmed your love of Peter’s never say die attitude by showing him literally give up and only get his body back when the supervillain hands it back to him and gets off scot free? DAFQ is that equivalent to ASM #33?
· The story was objectively poorly written
· The flaw in the comparison to Superior Spider-Man stems from the fact that Spider-Man was and is not an important character in a social/political sense.
Lets put aside how he literally doesn’t wear a flag as a costume.
Cap was specifically created as basically pro-war/anti-fascist propaganda. He is waaaaaaaaaaay more symbolically important than Spider-Man.
More pressingly turning him into a HYDRA agent, quite apart from being a story done before, comes at a time where it is inexcusably insensitive due to the rise of pro-fascist/neo-nazi sentiment in America (and abroad).
This isn’t a time where people need to see what makes Cap tick by taking those things away from him and making him the opposite, it’s a time where they really NEED him to be the ACTUAL Captain America and be all the ACTUAL things he’s supposed to stand for.
These are the same people who are quick to remind you none of this is permanent, it’ll all be undone, it happened because of the Cube after all -WINK WINK- (which pertains to how this will be undone and we all know it)... but sure, let’s pretend we’re nervous to see how Cap is gonna “climb back”from this tone-deaf, cynical mess.
