However Long It Takes

I want him in ways that would get me expelled from the kingdom of heaven

The kingdom of heaven is within us, and all around us. Let not shame deceive you; all your yearnings are divine in nature.

you know what, thank you

the idea of open borders really doesn’t seem radical at all to me. like, from having traveled in the eu and between scotland and england/northern ireland and the republic, i’ve seen that it can and does work. what seems extreme to me is letting people drown at sea, especially when it’s being done by the eu??

the eu having internal open borders but then having an extremely hard border around it is an act of racism. i don’t think i’m exaggerating by saying that, europeans are free to enter where african and asian refugees are forbidden

He was your first love, I intend to be your last (sappy)

He was your first love, I intend to be your last (arrogant)

He was your first love, I intend to be your last (manipulative)

He was your first love, I intend to be your last (why did you give us this gem of a line and then fuck everything else up)

He is*

Oh Marcel 100% pays taxes

real people being partially closeted or ambiguous about their own sexuality while making Gay Art is not queerbaiting

Real people figuring out they’re queer through the process of making gay art is not queerbaiting either

#real people not telling you everything about themselves is allowed

just think it's interesting how certain fans were like "i hope they don't make daxton a thing again since he becomes a teacher and it would be gross" when paxton is literally devi's ex boyfriend and they're one year apart but then....... SPOILERS they found out about the new hot substitute teacher in her 20s SPOILERS and the outrage for paxton, the 18 year old fictional character freshly out of high school, is nowhere to be seen as long as he gets out of b*nvi's way.

does anyone else see the problem with this potential storyline if mindy dares to do it? hello??

as a benvi-shipper i think it is not a good idea to pair paxton with a substitute teacher, either. but if they might do this, i hope the writers will do this topic with utmost care.

I mean the teacher is probably 22-23

every couple of years I remember that julie plec made a character tell another character that “he was your first love, I intend to be your last” and then just fucked me personally over forever?? by not having them end up together?? ever??

If I was Caroline…

Not only would I have chosen Klaus. I have told Klaus and Liz what Damon did to me. It makes no sense to me why Caroline has to be told by the fandom to shut up and stop being judgmental. I don’t think she was being judgmental. I think she was just worried for Elena. She didn’t want her to be taken advantage of by Damon the same way she was. When from Caroline’s point of view when the sirebond was affecting Elena’s choices and state of mind, Elena was acting like Caroline from season one when Damon compelled her to play foot soldier for him. Her every choice revolved around Damon and what HE wanted. She had to cater to his demands. Not the other way around! It was disgusting.

Why has Caroline not told anyone what Damon did to her?! Why is she 'keeping her mouth shut' for the sake of her friends! It’s disgusting! And on top of that, she’s forced to be around him everyday! And if she voices her concerns and frustrations with Damon, she’s brushed off! By her friends and this stupid fandom!

I know that telling Liz and Klaus what Damon did to her will possibly get him killed. And her friends. By Klaus. 😂🤷🏽‍♀️ Say what you want about Klaus but he does love her. It’s bad enough that she married her rapist’s brother and is now family with him. Like, this whole situation is unrealistic as hell.

You fans always say, “why would she date Klaus after what he did to Tyler?” If so. Then why would she marry her rapist’s brother so she can be forever connected to him? Hm? Oh, I know why. Because Caroline is obsessed with the idea of Stefan and the type of boyfriend that he was to Elena. Girl, stop. Wake up and smell the bullshit, Caroline. Stefan is not in love with you. He doesn’t even respect you. 🙄😑

It’s unrealistic that Caroline would even remotely want to be connected to Damon in any sort of way. He raped her and used her as a blood bag! And it’s also unrealistic and out of character for Caroline to keep allowing Stefan to treat her the ways he does. She dropped Tyler because she was sick and tired of waiting around for him. She wanted a boyfriend that was there and he did not fit the part, so she dropped him.

Anyways, it would have been interesting to see Caroline call her friends out and there be some sort of falling out. Because in my personal opinion… Caroline is too good for them. She gives way too much loyalty to the people who are buddy buddy with her rapist.

And don’t give me that crap about Klaus. Klaus is not a rapist. Yes, he did kiss her in Sire Boy’s body and I was giving him the side eye, but he gave her a warning. ‘Wrong time, wrong body’ or something like that. No, I do not believe that Klaus would have taken advantage of Caroline.

Klaus is way too arrogant to take away a woman’s will. He likes the chase. He also likes a woman falling at his feet just to get a taste of him. To take away a woman’s consent in sex is like poison to him, it hurts his pride. Plus, that’s not the way him or his brothers were raised. But not only would it hurt his pride, it would be violating Caroline, which would not sit well with him.

Klaus respects Caroline. Go argue with a wall. My opinion will stay the same. When she asked him to leave for her sake, he did.

But Caroline should have at least told someone! Not sire boy though. 'Cause he’s rarely even there. And he’ll somehow make it about Klaus when Klaus has nothing to do with it.

Hating steroline because "Caroline deserved better" then turning around to ship klaroline is so insane

At least Klaus put her first, took the time to understand her and always tell her how amazing she was and wasn't cryptic about his feelings and lied to her and played with her and literally just overall treated her like trash (so much so that she would park her car down the river and CRY. So much so that she LOST herself, and said so). Yes he tried to kill her, just like she did him. BECAUSE THEY WERE ENEMIES. Which makes sense. But Stefan? He was a terrible boyfriend AND friend to her. When he was never her enemy. It's not the same when your enemy treats you badly than when your bff does. Klaus and Caroline's relationship was complicated because they had a connection that all she wanted to do was deny, but deny because of the pressure of her friends. Of what they would say, how they would feel. You can see it. SHE KNOWS they would judge her. Even though Elena was with Damon. Who is just as bad as Klaus. All she sees is how much they HATE being vampires. How they demonize it. And she thrives on it. But she keeps it hidden. Klaus? He KNOWS that about her. He was THE ONLY ONE, who knew that. He also KNEW she wanted her kids. That she loved them and couldn't part from them. Because of how big her heart is. How much she cares about others, to how many lengths she would go for them. (And he wanted to earn that) But what was she gonna do? Give them up because she was scared Stefan would leave her if she admitted it. All Stefan did the whole pregnancy was say how she was NOT their mother. He didn't really know her. He didn't care to know her. And what did he do when he saw that Caroline wanted the kids? HE LEFT. Exactly what she was afraid off. And her confidence and security in herself had been diminished by her relationship with him in such a large way THAT SHE WAS GONNA MARRY ALARIC. Just because. She probably thought she couldn't do any better. She said how STEFAN took away from her "partnership, and commitment and loyalty, and all those things that Stefan just TOOK AWAY FROM ME" and then she took him back. Like NOTHING had happened. Like he didn't ABANDON HER and left WITH ANOTHER WOMAN. AND DIDNT COME BACK EVEN AFTER IT WAS SAFE FOR HIM TO. Why did he come back? FOR DAMON. Even Klaus knew Stefan would do that. That Stefan would hurt her. So he specially asked him not to. To do the right thing. To NOT put Damon first. Well, he didn't take the advice. THE PLEA. "You hurt me, more than anyone else has ever hurt me". That's a quote directly from Caroline to Stefan. To Klaus? "You weren't the villain of my story"

So excuse me for not wanting her with the man that just treated her like, not even a second choice, A THIRD CHOICE. He even wanted to abandon her TWICE on season 8. You know, WHEN THEY WERE ENGAGED. She says she stood by him THROUGH EVERYTHING and then he says he will leave her for her own good "Don't you dare say that this is for me, this has Nothing to do with me. Your walk of atonement, your guilt. That is all for you". When he died on their wedding day? He told Damon "let me do this for you" and when he didn't want him to? "Let me do this for me".

So yeah...

Bffr rn💀 there's a big difference between Stefan staying away from everyone because he just lost his brother even tho he has been always supportive of Caroline, he's the reason she adjusted to vampirism/HE SOLD HIS SOUL TO THE DEVIL FOR HER AND HER KIDS and was ready to do about anything for her because he genuinely loved her which was shown through an actually developed relationship and Klaus spending the entire time of his mysterious and random ass "crush" on Caroline terrorizing her/almost killing her three times for the fun of it and telling her how to live her life, Stefan actually got to know and love Caroline for who she is and didn't try to sleep with her without her consent cuz that's all he cared about , Caroline made it absolutely clear she doesn't like "bad boys" let alone really horrible people, "fighting her love for him" as if she didn't come up with the idea of celebrating his death and chose Tyler over him again and again? Just accept that klaroline is a horribly written ship that never made sense and got carried by fan service and move, steroline was being discussed since season 2 and like it or not it's an objectively way better written ship than klaroline where they both actually canonically loved each other

Damn so many of the things you said were WRONG. Klaus tried to sleep with her without her consent??? Are you kidding me??? He tried to stop her TWICE.

"This is going to sound incredible but" - she cut him off

"Wrong time wrong place wrong equipment" she cut him off again.

If he wanted to sleep with her he would've kept pretending. But he didn't even pretend AT ALL.

Saying stefan is the reason Caroline became a good vampire takes all the credit from her. All stefan did was teach her to hunt bunnies. That did NOT help Caroline. She had to end up breaking up with Matt because of that. She learned on her own.

Yes he did that for her kids but that doesn't change all the things he did to her before. Honestly if Caroline had forgiven him AFTER that I'd understand completely. The problem is she forgave him for no reason BEFORE that. After all the pain he put her through. "He lost his brother" at least on s7 he was still alive. Just in a sleep (and again, that would be putting Damon first). And on s6 Stefan was still a good friend to Elena. "He knew Caroline would bring him back" well how do you explain that after Damon Came back he apologized to everyone EXCEPT Caroline. And before that, pushed his ex girlfriend on to her and was gonna dip. WITHOUT SAYING GOODBYE. Then, he didn't trust her when she said she could control her no humanity self. And he is the reason she lost control BECAUSE he made everything about himself. Even Elena told him that Caroline had it under control but NOO. Since Stefan can't control it, no one else can. Again, he didn't know her at all. Also, his proposal? Copy from the dream stelena proposal. More proof that Caroline was just a second/third choice.

"She doesn't like the bad boys"

Ok, here is a quote from Caroline;

"Some girls just like the bad boys, the more sheltered they are the more likely it is"

Klaus "you say that like it's inevitable, it's not a right of passage"

Caroline "for some girls it is, it was for me. If there was a bad boy within a 5 mile radius I would find him. And some were even way too old for me"

Klaus tried to kill her twice, not three times. How many times did Caroline try to kill him? The same amount. The first time she was just collateral damage in his war with Stefan. Honestly it could've been anyone it wasn't personal. The second time his brother had just been murdered in front of him. And Caroline and Tyler were threatening him and insulting him. And he lost control. He is literally a murderous 1000 year old vampire werewolf hybrid. Like- I'm not surprised he did that. He chocked Hayley (you know, the girl you ship him with) when she was pregnant because he was angry. And when he is angry he can't see clearly or reason.

"Chose Tyler" ofc she chose Tyler. She was in love with him. Also, Caroline wasn't battling her love for Klaus. I don't think she was in love with him in tvd at all. But she felt attracted to him. That's what she was battling. Also battling how she liked being a vampire when everyone else hated it. When she was free of Tyler what did she do? On that's right, have sex with Klaus

Ofc she celebrated his death. HE WAS HER ENEMY. How many times do I have to say that? Idc what bad things he did while they were enemies. It's fair game. But the good things he did while enemies, that's what matters. He changed because Caroline inspired him and he wanted to earn her respect. And Caroline never compromised herself until he actually did.

"Klaroline was made by fans" so? There is a reason don't you think??? They had chemistry, and for many fans, they made sense. Because Klaus could show her to embrace her vampirism. How amazing it could be. On her birthday all she had said was how horrible she felt because she was a vampire. What did Klaus do? Explain the beauty of it. Klaus only ever saw her. Klaus would put revenge and even his family after Caroline. He appreciated her. "Stefan got to know Caroline" girl- he gave her a Mystic Falls snow globe from a gas station when they were bffs even though all Caroline had ever wanted was to get out of that town. Again, Stefan didn't know Caroline wanted her kids. Don't you think that's something important he should know of the woman he loved?

Fyi just because a ship is planned doesn't mean it's good or was well executed. Caroline's biggest insecurity was being people's Elena back up. And they made her be with someone who was canonically supposed to be Elena's soulmate (I'm a delena btw)???? And he only saw her that way after EVERYBODY had to tell him to. After Elena had completely moved on from him. After her mother died.

I'm not saying Caroline didn't love stefan, because she did. But honestly? She was hung up on the boyfriend he was to ELENA. Even though time after time he proved that he wasn't that boyfriend to her. And Stefan? I think Caroline was just a save choice. Yes he loved her, but not as much as he loved Elena, his brother or hated himself. He killed himself on their wedding day. Like-

Here is a little something Candice said about steroline on season 7. Normally I don't take into account Actors' opinions on ships but everything she said here makes sense and is true. And I know Candice doesn't understand klaroline and that's fine, not everyone can or has to. But everything she said about Steroline here is exactly how I feel.

Klayley is x100 more toxic than klaroline and i never denied it and klaroline being toxic is not the point, but Stefan arguably treated Caroline way better than the man who tried to murder her three times just because and yes he literally tried to sleep with her without consent in tvd when he was in Tyler's body, she had no idea that was Klaus and he still went with it until she figured it out herself and was disgusted, steroline is a way way better written/more developed ship, Stefan never once emotionally or physically abused Caroline

And he did respect her choices and i didn't say he's the reason she became a good vampire, i said while she was FREAKING OUT about first transitioning and being unable to control her blood lust Stefan was the one to calm her down and Caroline is seen remembering Stefan's words later on when she felt the urge to eat matt,

I can name two women Klaus would chose over Caroline in a heartbeat and lmao like a billion people Caroline would chose over him

And since you care so much about what Candice says how about this

Damn you really have no proof hahaha. I gave you episodes and exact quotes. I said the only reason I used Candice's words is because I resonated with them and made sense. They had a basis. In that interview when she says Caroline hates him? Yeah they were filming the sex scene. That's the same jacket. She was just trying to throw people off. Yeah . Candice has always been (except on s3) a kc hater. And preferred Steroline, which is why I was surprised when she said all those things about them that made a lot of sense. Joseph has always been Pro klaroline and said Hayley and Klaus were brother and sister hon. And yeah Caroline would choose a lot of people over him. When did I say she wouldn't? Caroline wasn't in love with him YET. But she knew with enough time she would be. And that he was her future. That's why she kept the voicemail for 15 years. Do you know how hard it is to keep a voicemail after you've changed phones?? Idk if anyone actually knows how to do that.

If you keep lying and saying Klaus wanted to take advantage of her, that's on you and your delulu mind. Maybe rewatch the scene or smt. He tried to stop her. Like, actively. But the girl he liked was making out with him, it's kinda hard to think straight when that's happening. But ofc he tried anyway. And I'm 100% sure he wouldn't have let it gone far.

Again, he only tried to kill her twice. And she tried to kill him too. You know this thing called enemies to lovers? Yeah.

Ok bye I'm on finals I don't have time for this

Jesus Christ you really tried to justify attempted rape as "he couldn't stop himself cause he liked her"💀

Joseph Morgan also said Klaus and Hayley have romantic tension/sexual attraction so where do we go from here, and by that standard then Caroline hates Klaus's guts because that's what Candice says

Overall the whole point of this dumb argument is that Klaus did not treat Caroline better than Stefan and he didn't love her as much as Stefan did and he would chose Hayley/cami over her anytime of the day

Goodbye

"He couldn't stop himself because he liked her" I said he stopped himself anyway and was never gonna let it go far. So he kissed her back because he liked her but that didn't stop him from trying to stop her. If he wanted to take advantage of her LIKE YOU SAID he would've pretended to be Tyler. He didn't. He never meant to. She kept cutting him off. Even though he stopped her twice.

If you think he is the kind of guy who would do that why would you ship him with your fav?

Hating steroline because "Caroline deserved better" then turning around to ship klaroline is so insane

At least Klaus put her first, took the time to understand her and always tell her how amazing she was and wasn't cryptic about his feelings and lied to her and played with her and literally just overall treated her like trash (so much so that she would park her car down the river and CRY. So much so that she LOST herself, and said so). Yes he tried to kill her, just like she did him. BECAUSE THEY WERE ENEMIES. Which makes sense. But Stefan? He was a terrible boyfriend AND friend to her. When he was never her enemy. It's not the same when your enemy treats you badly than when your bff does. Klaus and Caroline's relationship was complicated because they had a connection that all she wanted to do was deny, but deny because of the pressure of her friends. Of what they would say, how they would feel. You can see it. SHE KNOWS they would judge her. Even though Elena was with Damon. Who is just as bad as Klaus. All she sees is how much they HATE being vampires. How they demonize it. And she thrives on it. But she keeps it hidden. Klaus? He KNOWS that about her. He was THE ONLY ONE, who knew that. He also KNEW she wanted her kids. That she loved them and couldn't part from them. Because of how big her heart is. How much she cares about others, to how many lengths she would go for them. (And he wanted to earn that) But what was she gonna do? Give them up because she was scared Stefan would leave her if she admitted it. All Stefan did the whole pregnancy was say how she was NOT their mother. He didn't really know her. He didn't care to know her. And what did he do when he saw that Caroline wanted the kids? HE LEFT. Exactly what she was afraid off. And her confidence and security in herself had been diminished by her relationship with him in such a large way THAT SHE WAS GONNA MARRY ALARIC. Just because. She probably thought she couldn't do any better. She said how STEFAN took away from her "partnership, and commitment and loyalty, and all those things that Stefan just TOOK AWAY FROM ME" and then she took him back. Like NOTHING had happened. Like he didn't ABANDON HER and left WITH ANOTHER WOMAN. AND DIDNT COME BACK EVEN AFTER IT WAS SAFE FOR HIM TO. Why did he come back? FOR DAMON. Even Klaus knew Stefan would do that. That Stefan would hurt her. So he specially asked him not to. To do the right thing. To NOT put Damon first. Well, he didn't take the advice. THE PLEA. "You hurt me, more than anyone else has ever hurt me". That's a quote directly from Caroline to Stefan. To Klaus? "You weren't the villain of my story"

So excuse me for not wanting her with the man that just treated her like, not even a second choice, A THIRD CHOICE. He even wanted to abandon her TWICE on season 8. You know, WHEN THEY WERE ENGAGED. She says she stood by him THROUGH EVERYTHING and then he says he will leave her for her own good "Don't you dare say that this is for me, this has Nothing to do with me. Your walk of atonement, your guilt. That is all for you". When he died on their wedding day? He told Damon "let me do this for you" and when he didn't want him to? "Let me do this for me".

So yeah...

Bffr rn💀 there's a big difference between Stefan staying away from everyone because he just lost his brother even tho he has been always supportive of Caroline, he's the reason she adjusted to vampirism/HE SOLD HIS SOUL TO THE DEVIL FOR HER AND HER KIDS and was ready to do about anything for her because he genuinely loved her which was shown through an actually developed relationship and Klaus spending the entire time of his mysterious and random ass "crush" on Caroline terrorizing her/almost killing her three times for the fun of it and telling her how to live her life, Stefan actually got to know and love Caroline for who she is and didn't try to sleep with her without her consent cuz that's all he cared about , Caroline made it absolutely clear she doesn't like "bad boys" let alone really horrible people, "fighting her love for him" as if she didn't come up with the idea of celebrating his death and chose Tyler over him again and again? Just accept that klaroline is a horribly written ship that never made sense and got carried by fan service and move, steroline was being discussed since season 2 and like it or not it's an objectively way better written ship than klaroline where they both actually canonically loved each other

Damn so many of the things you said were WRONG. Klaus tried to sleep with her without her consent??? Are you kidding me??? He tried to stop her TWICE.

"This is going to sound incredible but" - she cut him off

"Wrong time wrong place wrong equipment" she cut him off again.

If he wanted to sleep with her he would've kept pretending. But he didn't even pretend AT ALL.

Saying stefan is the reason Caroline became a good vampire takes all the credit from her. All stefan did was teach her to hunt bunnies. That did NOT help Caroline. She had to end up breaking up with Matt because of that. She learned on her own.

Yes he did that for her kids but that doesn't change all the things he did to her before. Honestly if Caroline had forgiven him AFTER that I'd understand completely. The problem is she forgave him for no reason BEFORE that. After all the pain he put her through. "He lost his brother" at least on s7 he was still alive. Just in a sleep (and again, that would be putting Damon first). And on s6 Stefan was still a good friend to Elena. "He knew Caroline would bring him back" well how do you explain that after Damon Came back he apologized to everyone EXCEPT Caroline. And before that, pushed his ex girlfriend on to her and was gonna dip. WITHOUT SAYING GOODBYE. Then, he didn't trust her when she said she could control her no humanity self. And he is the reason she lost control BECAUSE he made everything about himself. Even Elena told him that Caroline had it under control but NOO. Since Stefan can't control it, no one else can. Again, he didn't know her at all. Also, his proposal? Copy from the dream stelena proposal. More proof that Caroline was just a second/third choice.

"She doesn't like the bad boys"

Ok, here is a quote from Caroline;

"Some girls just like the bad boys, the more sheltered they are the more likely it is"

Klaus "you say that like it's inevitable, it's not a right of passage"

Caroline "for some girls it is, it was for me. If there was a bad boy within a 5 mile radius I would find him. And some were even way too old for me"

Klaus tried to kill her twice, not three times. How many times did Caroline try to kill him? The same amount. The first time she was just collateral damage in his war with Stefan. Honestly it could've been anyone it wasn't personal. The second time his brother had just been murdered in front of him. And Caroline and Tyler were threatening him and insulting him. And he lost control. He is literally a murderous 1000 year old vampire werewolf hybrid. Like- I'm not surprised he did that. He chocked Hayley (you know, the girl you ship him with) when she was pregnant because he was angry. And when he is angry he can't see clearly or reason.

"Chose Tyler" ofc she chose Tyler. She was in love with him. Also, Caroline wasn't battling her love for Klaus. I don't think she was in love with him in tvd at all. But she felt attracted to him. That's what she was battling. Also battling how she liked being a vampire when everyone else hated it. When she was free of Tyler what did she do? On that's right, have sex with Klaus

Ofc she celebrated his death. HE WAS HER ENEMY. How many times do I have to say that? Idc what bad things he did while they were enemies. It's fair game. But the good things he did while enemies, that's what matters. He changed because Caroline inspired him and he wanted to earn her respect. And Caroline never compromised herself until he actually did.

"Klaroline was made by fans" so? There is a reason don't you think??? They had chemistry, and for many fans, they made sense. Because Klaus could show her to embrace her vampirism. How amazing it could be. On her birthday all she had said was how horrible she felt because she was a vampire. What did Klaus do? Explain the beauty of it. Klaus only ever saw her. Klaus would put revenge and even his family after Caroline. He appreciated her. "Stefan got to know Caroline" girl- he gave her a Mystic Falls snow globe from a gas station when they were bffs even though all Caroline had ever wanted was to get out of that town. Again, Stefan didn't know Caroline wanted her kids. Don't you think that's something important he should know of the woman he loved?

Fyi just because a ship is planned doesn't mean it's good or was well executed. Caroline's biggest insecurity was being people's Elena back up. And they made her be with someone who was canonically supposed to be Elena's soulmate (I'm a delena btw)???? And he only saw her that way after EVERYBODY had to tell him to. After Elena had completely moved on from him. After her mother died.

I'm not saying Caroline didn't love stefan, because she did. But honestly? She was hung up on the boyfriend he was to ELENA. Even though time after time he proved that he wasn't that boyfriend to her. And Stefan? I think Caroline was just a save choice. Yes he loved her, but not as much as he loved Elena, his brother or hated himself. He killed himself on their wedding day. Like-

Here is a little something Candice said about steroline on season 7. Normally I don't take into account Actors' opinions on ships but everything she said here makes sense and is true. And I know Candice doesn't understand klaroline and that's fine, not everyone can or has to. But everything she said about Steroline here is exactly how I feel.

Klayley is x100 more toxic than klaroline and i never denied it and klaroline being toxic is not the point, but Stefan arguably treated Caroline way better than the man who tried to murder her three times just because and yes he literally tried to sleep with her without consent in tvd when he was in Tyler's body, she had no idea that was Klaus and he still went with it until she figured it out herself and was disgusted, steroline is a way way better written/more developed ship, Stefan never once emotionally or physically abused Caroline

And he did respect her choices and i didn't say he's the reason she became a good vampire, i said while she was FREAKING OUT about first transitioning and being unable to control her blood lust Stefan was the one to calm her down and Caroline is seen remembering Stefan's words later on when she felt the urge to eat matt,

I can name two women Klaus would chose over Caroline in a heartbeat and lmao like a billion people Caroline would chose over him

And since you care so much about what Candice says how about this

Damn you really have no proof hahaha. I gave you episodes and exact quotes. I said the only reason I used Candice's words is because I resonated with them and made sense. They had a basis. In that interview when she says Caroline hates him? Yeah they were filming the sex scene. That's the same jacket. She was just trying to throw people off. Yeah . Candice has always been (except on s3) a kc hater. And preferred Steroline, which is why I was surprised when she said all those things about them that made a lot of sense. Joseph has always been Pro klaroline and said Hayley and Klaus were brother and sister hon. And yeah Caroline would choose a lot of people over him. When did I say she wouldn't? Caroline wasn't in love with him YET. But she knew with enough time she would be. And that he was her future. That's why she kept the voicemail for 15 years. Do you know how hard it is to keep a voicemail after you've changed phones?? Idk if anyone actually knows how to do that.

If you keep lying and saying Klaus wanted to take advantage of her, that's on you and your delulu mind. Maybe rewatch the scene or smt. He tried to stop her. Like, actively. But the girl he liked was making out with him, it's kinda hard to think straight when that's happening. But ofc he tried anyway. And I'm 100% sure he wouldn't have let it gone far.

Again, he only tried to kill her twice. And she tried to kill him too. You know this thing called enemies to lovers? Yeah.

Ok bye I'm on finals I don't have time for this

Hating steroline because "Caroline deserved better" then turning around to ship klaroline is so insane

At least Klaus put her first, took the time to understand her and always tell her how amazing she was and wasn't cryptic about his feelings and lied to her and played with her and literally just overall treated her like trash (so much so that she would park her car down the river and CRY. So much so that she LOST herself, and said so). Yes he tried to kill her, just like she did him. BECAUSE THEY WERE ENEMIES. Which makes sense. But Stefan? He was a terrible boyfriend AND friend to her. When he was never her enemy. It's not the same when your enemy treats you badly than when your bff does. Klaus and Caroline's relationship was complicated because they had a connection that all she wanted to do was deny, but deny because of the pressure of her friends. Of what they would say, how they would feel. You can see it. SHE KNOWS they would judge her. Even though Elena was with Damon. Who is just as bad as Klaus. All she sees is how much they HATE being vampires. How they demonize it. And she thrives on it. But she keeps it hidden. Klaus? He KNOWS that about her. He was THE ONLY ONE, who knew that. He also KNEW she wanted her kids. That she loved them and couldn't part from them. Because of how big her heart is. How much she cares about others, to how many lengths she would go for them. (And he wanted to earn that) But what was she gonna do? Give them up because she was scared Stefan would leave her if she admitted it. All Stefan did the whole pregnancy was say how she was NOT their mother. He didn't really know her. He didn't care to know her. And what did he do when he saw that Caroline wanted the kids? HE LEFT. Exactly what she was afraid off. And her confidence and security in herself had been diminished by her relationship with him in such a large way THAT SHE WAS GONNA MARRY ALARIC. Just because. She probably thought she couldn't do any better. She said how STEFAN took away from her "partnership, and commitment and loyalty, and all those things that Stefan just TOOK AWAY FROM ME" and then she took him back. Like NOTHING had happened. Like he didn't ABANDON HER and left WITH ANOTHER WOMAN. AND DIDNT COME BACK EVEN AFTER IT WAS SAFE FOR HIM TO. Why did he come back? FOR DAMON. Even Klaus knew Stefan would do that. That Stefan would hurt her. So he specially asked him not to. To do the right thing. To NOT put Damon first. Well, he didn't take the advice. THE PLEA. "You hurt me, more than anyone else has ever hurt me". That's a quote directly from Caroline to Stefan. To Klaus? "You weren't the villain of my story"

So excuse me for not wanting her with the man that just treated her like, not even a second choice, A THIRD CHOICE. He even wanted to abandon her TWICE on season 8. You know, WHEN THEY WERE ENGAGED. She says she stood by him THROUGH EVERYTHING and then he says he will leave her for her own good "Don't you dare say that this is for me, this has Nothing to do with me. Your walk of atonement, your guilt. That is all for you". When he died on their wedding day? He told Damon "let me do this for you" and when he didn't want him to? "Let me do this for me".

So yeah...

Bffr rn💀 there's a big difference between Stefan staying away from everyone because he just lost his brother even tho he has been always supportive of Caroline, he's the reason she adjusted to vampirism/HE SOLD HIS SOUL TO THE DEVIL FOR HER AND HER KIDS and was ready to do about anything for her because he genuinely loved her which was shown through an actually developed relationship and Klaus spending the entire time of his mysterious and random ass "crush" on Caroline terrorizing her/almost killing her three times for the fun of it and telling her how to live her life, Stefan actually got to know and love Caroline for who she is and didn't try to sleep with her without her consent cuz that's all he cared about , Caroline made it absolutely clear she doesn't like "bad boys" let alone really horrible people, "fighting her love for him" as if she didn't come up with the idea of celebrating his death and chose Tyler over him again and again? Just accept that klaroline is a horribly written ship that never made sense and got carried by fan service and move, steroline was being discussed since season 2 and like it or not it's an objectively way better written ship than klaroline where they both actually canonically loved each other

Damn so many of the things you said were WRONG. Klaus tried to sleep with her without her consent??? Are you kidding me??? He tried to stop her TWICE.

"This is going to sound incredible but" - she cut him off

"Wrong time wrong place wrong equipment" she cut him off again.

If he wanted to sleep with her he would've kept pretending. But he didn't even pretend AT ALL.

Saying stefan is the reason Caroline became a good vampire takes all the credit from her. All stefan did was teach her to hunt bunnies. That did NOT help Caroline. She had to end up breaking up with Matt because of that. She learned on her own.

Yes he did that for her kids but that doesn't change all the things he did to her before. Honestly if Caroline had forgiven him AFTER that I'd understand completely. The problem is she forgave him for no reason BEFORE that. After all the pain he put her through. "He lost his brother" at least on s7 he was still alive. Just in a sleep (and again, that would be putting Damon first). And on s6 Stefan was still a good friend to Elena. "He knew Caroline would bring him back" well how do you explain that after Damon Came back he apologized to everyone EXCEPT Caroline. And before that, pushed his ex girlfriend on to her and was gonna dip. WITHOUT SAYING GOODBYE. Then, he didn't trust her when she said she could control her no humanity self. And he is the reason she lost control BECAUSE he made everything about himself. Even Elena told him that Caroline had it under control but NOO. Since Stefan can't control it, no one else can. Again, he didn't know her at all. Also, his proposal? Copy from the dream stelena proposal. More proof that Caroline was just a second/third choice.

"She doesn't like the bad boys"

Ok, here is a quote from Caroline;

"Some girls just like the bad boys, the more sheltered they are the more likely it is"

Klaus "you say that like it's inevitable, it's not a right of passage"

Caroline "for some girls it is, it was for me. If there was a bad boy within a 5 mile radius I would find him. And some were even way too old for me"

Klaus tried to kill her twice, not three times. How many times did Caroline try to kill him? The same amount. The first time she was just collateral damage in his war with Stefan. Honestly it could've been anyone it wasn't personal. The second time his brother had just been murdered in front of him. And Caroline and Tyler were threatening him and insulting him. And he lost control. He is literally a murderous 1000 year old vampire werewolf hybrid. Like- I'm not surprised he did that. He chocked Hayley (you know, the girl you ship him with) when she was pregnant because he was angry. And when he is angry he can't see clearly or reason.

"Chose Tyler" ofc she chose Tyler. She was in love with him. Also, Caroline wasn't battling her love for Klaus. I don't think she was in love with him in tvd at all. But she felt attracted to him. That's what she was battling. Also battling how she liked being a vampire when everyone else hated it. When she was free of Tyler what did she do? On that's right, have sex with Klaus

Ofc she celebrated his death. HE WAS HER ENEMY. How many times do I have to say that? Idc what bad things he did while they were enemies. It's fair game. But the good things he did while enemies, that's what matters. He changed because Caroline inspired him and he wanted to earn her respect. And Caroline never compromised herself until he actually did.

"Klaroline was made by fans" so? There is a reason don't you think??? They had chemistry, and for many fans, they made sense. Because Klaus could show her to embrace her vampirism. How amazing it could be. On her birthday all she had said was how horrible she felt because she was a vampire. What did Klaus do? Explain the beauty of it. Klaus only ever saw her. Klaus would put revenge and even his family after Caroline. He appreciated her. "Stefan got to know Caroline" girl- he gave her a Mystic Falls snow globe from a gas station when they were bffs even though all Caroline had ever wanted was to get out of that town. Again, Stefan didn't know Caroline wanted her kids. Don't you think that's something important he should know of the woman he loved?

Fyi just because a ship is planned doesn't mean it's good or was well executed. Caroline's biggest insecurity was being people's Elena back up. And they made her be with someone who was canonically supposed to be Elena's soulmate (I'm a delena btw)???? And he only saw her that way after EVERYBODY had to tell him to. After Elena had completely moved on from him. After her mother died.

I'm not saying Caroline didn't love stefan, because she did. But honestly? She was hung up on the boyfriend he was to ELENA. Even though time after time he proved that he wasn't that boyfriend to her. And Stefan? I think Caroline was just a save choice. Yes he loved her, but not as much as he loved Elena, his brother or hated himself. He killed himself on their wedding day. Like-

Here is a little something Candice said about steroline on season 7. Normally I don't take into account Actors' opinions on ships but everything she said here makes sense and is true. And I know Candice doesn't understand klaroline and that's fine, not everyone can or has to. But everything she said about Steroline here is exactly how I feel.

Hating steroline because "Caroline deserved better" then turning around to ship klaroline is so insane

At least Klaus put her first, took the time to understand her and always tell her how amazing she was and wasn't cryptic about his feelings and lied to her and played with her and literally just overall treated her like trash (so much so that she would park her car down the river and CRY. So much so that she LOST herself, and said so). Yes he tried to kill her, just like she did him. BECAUSE THEY WERE ENEMIES. Which makes sense. But Stefan? He was a terrible boyfriend AND friend to her. When he was never her enemy. It's not the same when your enemy treats you badly than when your bff does. Klaus and Caroline's relationship was complicated because they had a connection that all she wanted to do was deny, but deny because of the pressure of her friends. Of what they would say, how they would feel. You can see it. SHE KNOWS they would judge her. Even though Elena was with Damon. Who is just as bad as Klaus. All she sees is how much they HATE being vampires. How they demonize it. And she thrives on it. But she keeps it hidden. Klaus? He KNOWS that about her. He was THE ONLY ONE, who knew that. He also KNEW she wanted her kids. That she loved them and couldn't part from them. Because of how big her heart is. How much she cares about others, to how many lengths she would go for them. (And he wanted to earn that) But what was she gonna do? Give them up because she was scared Stefan would leave her if she admitted it. All Stefan did the whole pregnancy was say how she was NOT their mother. He didn't really know her. He didn't care to know her. And what did he do when he saw that Caroline wanted the kids? HE LEFT. Exactly what she was afraid off. And her confidence and security in herself had been diminished by her relationship with him in such a large way THAT SHE WAS GONNA MARRY ALARIC. Just because. She probably thought she couldn't do any better. She said how STEFAN took away from her "partnership, and commitment and loyalty, and all those things that Stefan just TOOK AWAY FROM ME" and then she took him back. Like NOTHING had happened. Like he didn't ABANDON HER and left WITH ANOTHER WOMAN. AND DIDNT COME BACK EVEN AFTER IT WAS SAFE FOR HIM TO. Why did he come back? FOR DAMON. Even Klaus knew Stefan would do that. That Stefan would hurt her. So he specially asked him not to. To do the right thing. To NOT put Damon first. Well, he didn't take the advice. THE PLEA. "You hurt me, more than anyone else has ever hurt me". That's a quote directly from Caroline to Stefan. To Klaus? "You weren't the villain of my story"

So excuse me for not wanting her with the man that just treated her like, not even a second choice, A THIRD CHOICE. He even wanted to abandon her TWICE on season 8. You know, WHEN THEY WERE ENGAGED. She says she stood by him THROUGH EVERYTHING and then he says he will leave her for her own good "Don't you dare say that this is for me, this has Nothing to do with me. Your walk of atonement, your guilt. That is all for you". When he died on their wedding day? He told Damon "let me do this for you" and when he didn't want him to? "Let me do this for me".

So yeah...

okay this is such a particular thing but i love that there are full conversations in xo kitty where its just korean being used. they switch on and off. they do it when they don’t want kitty to understand. they do it when its just korean speakers around. like it just makes sense but you’d be surprised how much it doesn’t happen in western media.

every couple of years I remember that julie plec made a character tell another character that “he was your first love, I intend to be your last” and then just fucked me personally over forever?? by not having them end up together?? ever??