What are your thoughts about the significance of Dany seeing Drogo and her unborn son in the house of the undying vision? Do you think this could at all imply that she may not survive the war? Thank you for your infinite wisdom!


No my interpretation is that in season 2, she knew nothing of Westeros so that vision was bit of a prophesy/foreshadowing for season 7, during which Dany arrives at Dragonstone when winter finally hits the continent. As someone who brought fire magic back to world when she birthed her dragons, it’s kind of interesting that soon after that she’s been given this warning about the threat of ice magic halfway across the world. She hasn’t seen King’s Landing ever in her life. Yet she is shown exactly what it could turn to come winter. That’s some quality Azor Ahai level stuff going on here. 

In the vision when she’s so close to touching the throne, she hears her baby dragons helpless & calling her to come rescue them and she abandons the Iron Throne to go beyond the Wall in her vision. In Season 7, Dany’s argument with Tyrion was so significant because when Jon (technically also her baby dragon LOL) calls for help, she abandons her conquest for the throne and risks everything to go beyond the Wall and save him.

In the vision, beyond the Wall she finds her dead husband and child but she has to leave them as well to go save her dragons. And during the Wight Hunt, she has to watch a child, Viserion die and watch the man she loves die too but she’s forced to leave them behind for the safety of her remaining dragons.

Also it’s interesting that Dany only meets Drogo and Rhaego in that tent, considering how only their namesakes (reincarnations?) Drogon and Rhaegal survived the Wight Hunt. 

I’m sure back in season 2, when the death of Drogo & Rhaego were so fresh someone might have gotten the impression that perhaps one day Dany might go beyond the Wall and die. That it was her idea of peace in afterlife. But Seven seasons later, it’s pretty clear that Drogo was simply her origin story and not her idea of peace/destiny in a way that something like…house with the red door or having her own Targaryen-Dragon family would be. Also we have already seen her go beyond the Wall at this point. The way things unfolded, I feel it’s pretty clear that the vision wasn’t tied to her death. Though I didn’t get the impression that it was even during Season 2, I only found out about that interpretation recently. 

The vision was presented to her because she entered the House of Undying to save her family - her children/dragons but she didn’t linger onto any of the distractions/loss in her past/foreshadowing and in the end she defeated the warlock because the fire magic within her and the magic of her dragons finally unified and worked stronger together. Its even stated in this scene that the dragons are stronger in Dany’s presence. 

And guess what the narrative conclusion of the wight hunt was? The last two Targaryens/Dragons putting their strength together for the singular goal of defeating the “Undying” Night King. 

And thanks, you’re too kind. This was a really sweet ask. I hope this helped. For me, wight hunt was the conclusion for the foreshadowing presented in the HoTU vision in Season 2. 

Three fires must you light... one for life and one for death and one to love

My two cents:

(1) obvious: the fire which birthed her dragons

(2) this could be many things, but I suspect it might involve the Battle for the Dawn, or possibly the burning of King's Landing

(3) this is probably reaching a bit, but I read "a fire to love" with the 'to' as in celebration. Like you raise a glass to someone when you celebrate their birthday. Now, my theory was that, if the Dany resurrection theory is correct, Jon and Dany might want to get married with a Lord of Light ceremony. There's only been one of those in the books, but it involves the bride and groom jumping over a fire. I thought it'd be quite fitting given their Targaryen heritage, but also because that ceremony is one of the only weddings in ASOIAF that actually seems sort of nice and happy? (As opposed to a Seven ceremony--Tyrion and Sansa--or an Old Gods ceremony--Ramsay and Jeyne--both of which were miserable affairs.) So yeah, that's my take. The truth will probably be a lot less happy, but I thought it's a nice theory, anyway.

Re: the Stone Dragon. If this is something detrimental to the coming of the Promised, how do you think the wires got crossed with Melisandre wanting to awaken it?


I think there’s sort of a mix-up here to two different phenomena in the story.

When Daenerys receives the “slayer of lies” visions in the House of the Undying, she observes a stone beast:

Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire… . mother of dragons, slayer of lies …

Now, this could be a dragon, I suppose, but I don’t know, you’d think the Mother of Dragons herself would recognize a dragon when she saw one. (That doesn’t mean it’s not a dragon, of course - "beast" could mean a corrupted dragon, or a pretended dragon she will recognize as false, or something else entirely.) I think it’s also worth pointing out that what exactly the “stone beast” lie represents may or may not be related to Daenerys’ (probable) identity as the prince that was promised; certainly, Aegon’s part in this prophecy as the “cloth dragon” seems far more connected with her destiny as the sole Targaryen dynast than it does with anything concerning the prince that was promised. (Again, in my view, which is admittedly no more than a guess at a rather vague prophecy, I think this “lie” concerns Euron’s false claim to the heritage of Valyria.)

Melisandre, however, is very clear that what she wants is a stone dragon (or maybe plural):

[“]It is written in prophecy as well. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.[”]
“Speak sense to me, woman.”
“When the fires speak more plainly, so shall I. There is truth in the flames, but it is not always easy to see.” The great ruby at her throat drank fire from the glow of the brazier. “Give me the boy, Your Grace. It is the surer way. The better way. Give me the boy and I shall wake the stone dragon.”
“Robert did that. Not the boy. My daughter has grown fond of him. And he is mine own blood.”
“Your brother’s blood,” Melisandre said. “A king’s blood. Only a king’s blood can wake the stone dragon.”
“Give me the boy for R'hllor,” the red woman said, “and the ancient prophecy shall be fulfilled. Your dragon shall awaken and spread his stony wings. The kingdom shall be yours.”
Stannis made a fist. “Tommen is gentler than Joffrey, but born of the same incest. Another monster in the making. Another leech upon the land. Westeros needs a man’s hand, not a child’s.”
Melisandre moved closer. “Save them, sire. Let me wake the stone dragons. Three is three. Give me the boy.”

These passages, especially that one about this dragon spreading “stony wings”, definitely suggest that Melisandre envisions an actual dragon made of stone. The “how” of this is something of a mystery: maybe she was picturing animating the many dragon statues carved on Dragonstone Ghostbusters 2-style, or maybe she was thinking that (as Davos briefly speculated) those statues were real dragons (or, at least, real fire and magic trapped in stonework by Valyrian magic-masons), or maybe she was going to construct a false dragon out of magic and then coat it in stone, or something else entirely.

Nevertheless, what I think the prophecy Melisandre is actually referring to means is that the prince that was promised will wake living dragons out of the fossilized, stony eggs which have trapped them for centuries. This interpretation coincides with Aemon’s insistence that Daenerys is the prince that was promised because “the dragons prove it”; Daenerys was able to do what no Targaryen had done for nearly 150 years, and did so in a miraculous, unquestionably magical manner. The stone, in other words, is the egg encasing the dragon, not the dragon itself, but in classic Melisandre fashion she has jumped to a conclusion for a prophetic reading which will turn out to be wrong.

Suffice to say, I don’t think Daenerys’ vision of a stone beast and Melisandre’s insistence upon waking a stone dragon are narratively connected.

Daenerys and Prophecy

Do you guys remember that one time Daenerys thought that Daario could be one of the betrayals the Undying wormed her about but still decided to ride the blue-haired Tyroshi because no stinking prophecy is going to tell Daenerys Targaryen what to do.*

Good times.

*She also thought it could be Brown Ben but still allowed him back into her court because a dragon gives two fucks about prophecies. Take that, Prophecy!

ATTN: Ramin Djawadi fans, I need musical analysis help.

Any insight into what the music means during the ruined throne room scene would be greatly appreciated!

This is the song playing during the throne room scene: House of the Undying

It is rumored to be a mixture of these two themes: Love in the Eyes & Night’s Watch

Other posts I’ve read say it shares similarities with the song featured in the first ever white walker scene: North of the Wall

Beyond this, I cannot find much information about it. If you know any information about this song, please let me know!

Anonymous asked:

Different anon: What in the books so far has hinted at the possibility of JonxDany? I thought Jon was into redheads and/or warrior women, and Dany was into hyper-macho warrior-kings and morally loose rogues.

It’s all about the HOTU, my friend:

““…mother of dragons…child of three…three heads has the dragon…three heads has the dragon…the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air…mother of dragons…child of storm…The whispers became a swirling song…three fires must you light…one for life and one for death and one to love…Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt…three mounts must you ride…one to bed and one to dread and one to love…The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath…three treasons will you know… once for blood and once for gold and once for love…”

And again:

“Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness…mother of dragons, bride of fire…”

Plus all of the constant R+L=J stuff in HOTU, which suggests that Dany’s destiny is bound up with Rhaegar’s child of prophecy.

I just finished reading Dany’s House of Undying chapter and damn is this the most trippy thing I have ever read in the books! Its honestly as weird as the one time I tried really potent magic mushrooms(Shade of the evening?? *wink* *wink*). George really brings out the big guns when it comes to Dany’s visions, I wish they had some of this awesome creepy shit in the show, the show one was completely different, very straight forward & easy to understand!  This one, I had to really grill every paragraph to understand what it means & I still don’t have a clear understanding. 

Hidden Jonerys Treasures 

The last part of every set of visions was hard to understand and I think that’s because they all reference Jon.

1. She has five visions in the long creepy corridor - Four small men ravaging a naked women, which seems like the clash of the Kings tearing apart Westeros represented as a naked woman. The second is a vision of Red Wedding. Third a vision of the house with a red door & lemon tree, Dany’s only childhood memory of home. The fourth, the Mad King ordering the city be burnt before Robert takes King’s Landing. The fifth is the birth of Rhaegar & Elia’s son:      

The man had her brother’s hair, but he was taller, and his eyes were a dark indigo rather than lilac. “Aegon,” he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. “What better name for a king?”
“Will you make a song for him?” the woman asked.
“He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.” He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany’s, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. “There must be one more,” he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. “The dragon has three heads.”

When Rhaegar looks at her & says there must be another, it could have several connotations : Rhaegar wanting a third child or him acknowledging Dany or Dany realising about the baby Targ she would have with Jon.  

2. Then their prophesy by The Undying: “Three fires must you light, one for life(birth of dragons) and one for death(Vaes Dothrak) and one to love. Three mounts must you ride, one to bed(drogo) and one to dread(drogon) and one to love. Three treasons will you know,  once for blood(Mirri-witch) and once for gold(Xaro-Qarth guy) and once for love(this could be Jorah though).”

All of the last three could be referring to Jon, though I think if there’s a treason, it’ll be a harmless deception on his part for her safety & well being or something. 

3. They call her, daughter of death & show her dying Viserys, her unborn son’s future & Rhargar’s death as he whispers a woman’s name. I feel like the third one is again a Jon reference.  

4. They call her slayer of lies and show her : “Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. (This is Stannis as his Azor Ahai claim is a lie) A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. (This is Varys’ campaign to make the Fake Aegon in the books popular among commoners - their puppet dragon king whose Rightful heir claim is a lie) From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.” The last one again I think is a Jon reference because there has been a fire at Winterfell & Jon started one at the Lord Commander’s tower. No to mention Melisandre wanted to raise a stone dragon but until now she has only raised Jon, who is a secret dragon (Targaryen). It doesn’t even say dragon but “beast” and he is the white wolf too. I think this is the third lie Dany has to slay since Jon’s parentage is a lie & she would have a part to play in his legitimisation as the last legitimate Targaryen.  I don’t know, I could be wrong but considering Melisandre’s quotes about raising stone dragons & Jon being the only one she ever raised, makes me wonder! But this is the part of the prophesy that got me the the most! 

5. They call her bride of fire and show her :  “Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. (This is her wedding night with Drogo) A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. (This could be Euron or the other 2 guys who wants to marry her in the books) A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.(This is totally Jon Snow! The blue flower or winter rose is a constant reference to Jon’s parents in the books and Jon lives on a wall of ice. It seems like he is going to be her third husband pretty soon too! Plus he’s a Targ, so bride of fire finally!)

Final vision with no Jonerys  treasures: This just seems like a foreshadowing for her arc : 

  • Faster and faster the visions came, one after the other, until it seemed as if the very air had come alive. Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible. (Her Childbirth blood magic ritual) 
  • A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door. (Dany’s childhood) 
  • Mirri Maz Duur shrieked in the flames, a dragon bursting from her brow. (Drogo’s funeral) 
  • Behind a silver horse the bloody corpse of a naked man bounced and dragged. (Drogo’s punishment for the wine merchant who tried to poison Dany) 
  • A white lion ran through grass taller than a man. (The Lion Drogo hunts, whose head & fur she wears as a wig after losing her hair in fire) 
  • Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed. (I think this is the future, a variation of all Dothraki following her after the fire in Vaes Dothrak on the show) 
  • Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. “Mother!” they cried. “Mother, mother!” They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast(seriously sometimes George gets a bit creepy with the constant mentions). They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them.

The Undying are Creeps! 

The part where all the “Undying” who basically just sounded like White Walkers on the show but with their creepy ghost voices in her mind, start molesting Dany & she’s in shock & unable to move, was scary AF!  “drink from the cup of ice..drink from the cup of fire” I’m not sure what this means but I have a feeling it’s related to those creepy fuckers first luring her with everything she desires when they appear as normal people & offer her the ‘food of forever’ and later molesting her & resulting in their skin changing colour from blue to orange. 

But then black wings buffeted her round the head, and a scream of fury cut the indigo air, and suddenly the visions were gone, ripped away, and Dany’s gasp turned to horror. The Undying were all around her, blue and cold, whispering as they reached for her, pulling, stroking, tugging at her clothes, touching her with their dry cold hands, twining their fingers through her hair. All the strength had left her limbs. She could not move. Even her heart had ceased to beat. She felt a hand on her bare breast, twisting her nipple.(Seriously George? Seriously?) Teeth found the soft skin of her throat. A mouth descended on one eye, licking, sucking, biting …
Then indigo turned to orange, and whispers turned to screams. Her heart was pounding, racing, the hands and mouths were gone, heat washed over her skin, and Dany blinked at a sudden glare. Perched above her, the dragon spread his wings and tore at the terrible dark heart, ripping the rotten flesh to ribbons, and when his head snapped forward, fire flew from his open jaws, bright and hot. She could hear the shrieks of the Undying as they burned, their high thin papery voices crying out in tongues long dead. Their flesh was crumbling parchment, their bones dry wood soaked in tallow. They danced as the flames consumed them; they staggered and writhed and spun and raised blazing hands on high, their fingers bright as torches.

Like this is seriously the creepiest thing I have read in the books so far & I have never been more scared for Dany!  Thank god Drogon got his fire burning & burns that weird glowing rotten blue heart to kill them. Like what kind of lighting system is that anyway? Who spends their immortal life sitting in a dark room only lit by a glowing rotten blue heart? And why were all of their lives tied to this one thing that Drogon could so easily destroy? And if the key to their death was on display, then why on earth were they molesting a dragon’s mom? Like what was the endgame these weirdos intended here? “A thousand years ago we knew, and have been waiting all this time.” They say when Dany first sees an illusion of them in human form before she leaves the room & finds them in their real undead forms. 

Also why do they call her, “child of three” and only give the explanation “three heads has the dragon”. Are they counting Viserys as one of his dragon parents too?  

So here are my thoughts on this mind boggling chapter that not only got me invested in the books again but also started a storm in my mind! I need answers! Help me! Send me good links guys! Help me crack this insane puzzle!

Perhaps you've already answered this, but do you think the Stone Dragon to be awakened is literal or more like the symbolic prophesies we've seen in the House of the Undying


For reference:

Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire… . mother of dragons, slayer of lies

It’s clear that whatever, or whoever, the “great stone beast” is, it’s part of Daenerys’ identity as the “slayer of lies”. The obvious reading of “stone beast” is that it has something to do with greyscale, but I find this problematic for an answer. The two main characters with greyscale, Shireen and Jon Connington, are already connected with the two clear figures in that part of the prophecy - Stannis and Aegon, respectively. How would either of these characters represent a separate lie for Daenerys to slay (and, as a more general matter, what would greyscale have to do with a “lie” Daenerys would have to slay)? If there is no purpose to repeating a “lie” figure twice in the same prophecy, then I think it would have to be someone totally separate, albeit not connected to greyscale.

So, as @poorquentyn suggested, I think the “stone beast” breathing “shadow fire” from a “smoking tower” is Euron. The “smoking tower” lines up well with the Hightower, which makes sense as Euron’s immediate goal: not only is the Hightower obviously “smoking” due to its great beacon fire, but its supernatural qualities (its oily black stone foundation, its supposed connections to Valyria and the Deep Ones, its place as the repose of the spellbook-studying Malora and Papa Leyton, its alleged view of the magical Wall) are quite attractive to a man who seeks nothing less than apotheosis. Insofar as Euron seeks to be the heir of Valyria - a slave-making, dragon-mastering, magic-wielding king, a man who decks himself in Valyria’s treasures even now - then he could well represent a “lie” for Daenerys to slay; tempted by him at her lowest point, offered to make a new Valyria with him as her dragonlord ancestors did, Daenerys will reject what he has to offer, his evil outweighed by her desire to save humanity. What “stone beast” represents in this context I don’t know - is it that Euron is too false to be a real dragon (hence that “shadow fire”), or that his dragon will be corrupted by the magics he will work, or something else entirely? I don’t know, but this is the likeliest interpretation I’ve yet heard.