big hands neil, big hands neil, big hands neil, big h-

fandoms be like: death of the author!!!! engaging with the text is OUT!!!!!! fuck canon!!!!!!! *proceeds to reduce every redeeming quality of the text to ash and out of the ash rises a miserable plucked chicken*

we need to talk more about this scene

we know neil is demisexual, but he does not. he probably has no idea what demisexuality is (which makes sense, since he was on the run from like 10 to 18) and just. chose to identify as andrewsexual

i... interpreted this scene differently than you did.

i do agree thet he likely didn't have an idea about demisexuality (or ace spec, to make it more broad) being an actual thing, much less that there's a word (or words) for it. but he certainly knew what he feels for andrew and how his sexuality works. and to me, it's less about him **not knowing he's demi** but rather that he was simply **explaining how he felt** the way he knew how: through words and concepts that were already familiar to him.

hence him still saying he didn't swing, that being interested in andrew didn't make him look at anyone else any different. i.e. he's not allo, i.e. he's demi or ace spec.

also keep in mind that it wasn't actually neil himself who described sexualities by way of "swinging," it was nicky when he was asking about neil's. so neil in the scene above simply adapted the language that nicky had already used before, but phrased his answer in a way that made sense for or represented exactly what he was feeling or what his sexuality was: "i've said all year that i don't swing and i mean it."

although i guess you could say that him being "andrewsexual" is precisely what demisexuality was for him. no one else came close to the kind of connection/bond/relationship that he had with andrew bc after all, it's not everyday that you find someone literally willing to kill or be killed for you. and that's why it's just andrew 💁🏻‍♀️

All of the foxes think that Neil has a different accent because he’s picked up the habit of unconsciously mimicking the accent of whoever he’s talking to. When they finally figure this out, they ask Neil what his real accent sounds like, and the boy’s brain just kind of stalls for a second before he says, in a manner that suggests that he too has also just made this discovery and is now questioning his very existence, “I don’t know??” 

every time matt says "neil, my brother in christ", neil goes "antisemitism?🤨" and matt tries not to swing for him because they're in public and now people are giving him dirty looks

said this before but neil’s backstory is genuinely horrifying

andreil made it to 10000 fics

we did it fam!

You can hate Seth all you want (I'm neutral about him, we didn't get to see his evolution) but you can't deny that "His life is not more important than mine just because he's more talented." isn't one of the best quote of the book

forget minyard-josten rivalry, i like the idea of kevin and neil having a bit of a friendly competition vying for the top striker position in the pros better.

i’m under the impression that most people in the fandom hc kevin being the best of the best, like irrefutably, and maintains his top position of all time. or something along those lines (at least based on the post canon hc’s or fics i’ve seen). but imo it’s unrealistic for him (or any player tbh) to be in the top position undefeated/uncontested. i think he and neil occasionally go toe to toe against each other and maybe even take a piss on each other’s misses, especially neil. every now and then when he surpasses kevin’s stats or kevin makes mistake or neil thinks kevin could’ve made a different move but didn’t, he’ll tease or gloat at kevin about it or something. but ofc it’s all in good humor.

i’d also like to believe that kevin eventually reaches a point in his life where he won’t feel the need to self-flagellate over his mistakes anymore, and start internalizing that to err is human. and i think neil’s friendly ribbing might have contributed to that. or when kevin’s too frustrated for anything like that, neil would either go to extra practices with him (if they’re nearby, that is) or let kevin rant at him over the phone then set kevin straight and tell him to get his shit together and simply do better next time. and kevin does the same to neil whenever the situation calls for it (since we all know andrew will not stand for more stickball shenanigans than what he’s being paid for lol)

funniest thing is when it turns out someone actually has exactly the same takes on a fictional character as me but they finish like 'so yeah that's why i detest this guy' and it's like. ah. i see. i am a fundamentally different person however

Via @krisiverse

[ID: tag reading “at least they hate them accurately”. End ID.]

please reblog for a bigger sample size!

i just love how neil specifically remembers that kevin and riko used to draw the numbers on their faces and redraw them every time they faded

like kevin stepped into the actual exy world like “i have a court tattoo” and people went with it and it’s like this scary intimidating thing but neil’s like “yeah i remember when y’all’s cringe asses used to draw on your faces every day. thought you were weird then and i still do now.”

I've put some thought into this and I've come up with a theory. My theory is as follows: there are two main reasons people think the aftg novels are filled with bad writing.

1. They are self-published. This point is really two points. Because they are self-published they have a lot of typos and editing errors. Also, because they are self-published they are associated with not being good enough to be traditionally published. The belief that self-published books failed at being traditionally published is false. Nora has stated that she received interest from agents and publishers. They wanted her to change too much of the books, including replacing exy with an existing sport. She said that it would have felt like betraying her characters, especially her female characters, as exy is a coed sport. As for the errors, this is not an example of bad writing. It is an example of amateur proofreading, which is different.

2. The books do not have lyrical prose, which is actually an example of good writing. What?! How can this be? I'm about to tell you. The novels are completely from Neil's POV. They stay in Neil's POV. The reason the prose isn't lyrical is because Neil doesn't think lyrically. He is blunt. Straightforward, even though he's a liar. Think of the scene where he rejects Marissa or when he tells Seth why people don't like him. The writing style reflects this. In fact, many writers struggle with staying inside someone's head, with keeping to their POV. The way that Nora keeps Neil's perspective, and Neil's perspective only, is pretty impressive. His language actually changes a little as the books progress, which is seen around Andrew and his golden eyes. He starts to feel feelings around Andrew and his perspective changes to reflect this. Again, an example of good writing.

In conclusion, aftg are actually really good books. Source: me

i feel very normal and not at all insane about them. trust.

tw - mentions of abuse, drugs and genuinely any aaron-related trauma themes

ah yes, welcome back to part two of me ranting about the forgotten trauma of our favourite underrated aftg characters who the fandom absolutely shits on, this time, aaron. oh boy. before i begin, anybody seeing this who hates aaron and just will definitely die if they don't urgently disagree with me in the comments, your hates just gonna be deleted but thanks for boosting my post. anyways.

okay so let's start with the first claim that is always so hastily thrown around. "but aaron is homophobic!" okay, so, considering the fact you apparently all ignore seth's actions, when does aaron ever say the f slur? of course he expresses disgust when his cousin makes sexual comments to another guy around him. they're literally related, we all would. neil's gender was not relevant at all.

in fact, when, in actuality has aaron ever canonically spoken about gay people as a collective? because..reading yknow the LITERAL BOOKS he does not.

another thing aaron haters wanna jump on is "he is a dick!" and then..love andrew? now i love both my twinyards here but who are you to call aaron a dick and then get on ur knees for andrew who drugged neil without his consent. this isn't andrew slander, but you guys have really iffy standards. like boohoo you don't like him? HE DOESN'T LIKE YOU LMAO? you think he would care??

now let's get into his trauma and how much that is overlooked. i think people can understandably connect with andrew more and get pissed when aaron has his issues with him and neil but let's remember that aaron walked in on his brother being assaulted by another man. he is obviously going to be an asshole to any man who wants any form of non-platonic interactions with his brother out of worry for the foreseeable future.

what we usually forget is that aaron was raised on drugs and violence and abuse. his mother abused him, beat him and tormented him his entire life. of course his first response to everything is hostility.

another thing is his attitude towards tilda: it is literally 1000% normal to love your abuser idk why that is even a fucking question but yes you can

overall i just think he is treated so unfairly.

he isn't an asshole, he is a brother and a friend and a cousin and he's trying his best.

we need to appreciate him more man.

also "andrew is hotter tho" THEY'RE IDENTICAL

Look im sorry, but:

You're telling me, you're really telling me that after Aaron has been in therapy with Andrew for a while now, has seen his brother give Neil so much that he'd never given Aaron, the way Neil was the only person he spoke to post-rehab, has seen the post-Baltimore reunion, this is when he suddenly decides to use a slur against Neil?

The scene where he's actively trying to figure out if Neil is taking advantage of his brother.

The scene where when Neil punches him for it, he's satisfied and walk away.

This is the scene that tells me more than anything that Andrew's happiness matters more to Aaron than his sexuality. The one where whatever beliefs he may or may not hold are moot because he wants to know if Neil is hurting Andrew.

This is the scene that convinced me Aaron was a good person. Literally in the sentence right before that one, he threatens to kill Neil if he is doing half as much as Drake was. This is not a homophobe talking. This is a brother who doesn't know how to communicate in anything but threats and violence.

In fact, the last time Aaron acted half as disgusted was when Nicky was coming on to Neil in the first book, and Neil was clearly uncomfortable about it. Even then, he literally tells Nicky to stop being creepy, and readers decided that it was in a homophobic way. Wouldn't it make more sense if it was Nickys over the top flirting with a Neil that had already said he didn't swing that bothered Aaron?

I mean, the twins are supposed to hate each other, but the minute Andre walks in, he rats Nicky out for it. Andrew shoves a knife in Nickys chest and Nicky leaves Neil alone after that. Yeah, those are the actions of a homophobe: to tell the brother who curb stomps aggressors and goes to juvie for it.

In fact, the only person who uses the f-slur with any sort of meaning is Seth in tfc. He uses it twice. This scene where Neil punches Aaron is the first and only time Aaron makes a directly homophobic comment, and it is to see if Neil cares about his brother.

And hey, do you know what he does immediately after that? He sees how much Neil cares and uses that as a bargaining chip to break his deal with Andrew, thereby getting proof that Andrew cares about Neil too.

And hey, I'll do you one better, this was Aaron's plan all along. Right after Neil punches him, this is what he says:

Whether or not Aaron is homophobic, you're free to read that however you want, this scene proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Andrew comes before any stupid beliefs he may hold. And that for me, is the most important thing.

Wow, it's so homophobic to banter with your cousin about his self-proclaimed husband

This one's gonna be more serious. Look at Aaron's wording here: you never have anything useful to say. Someone who enjoys throwing slurs around and being as homophobic as possible would not say that to another homophobe. He hates his brother, sure, but he'll stand with him against seth because seth is an outsider and a threat. Doesn't matter what he says, Aaron's not listening, he's on Andrew's side.

He knows what Andrew means when he says "I don't like that word", it's the same thing he says about please and misunderstanding. They've lived together for 5 years now, Aaron's not stupid. He understands.

And hes still siding with Andrew. That tells me a lot.

Listen. Fucking listen to me. I have homophobic family members. I have homophobic cousins who are younger than me. I know what they would do to me if I even implied I was bisexual. Even thinking about it scares the shit out of me. Okay?

And here. Here Nicky has thrice made jokes offhandedly about being gay. IN THE TWO THOUSANDS. I fear for my life in 2023. In 2006 Aaron could get away with killing Nickyif he suspected he was gay.

This is what I say to my best friend when she talks about sex with her boyfriend. Ew I don't wanna think about you having sex, that's gross. This is not what I would say if I was a homophobe.

Nicky has lived with Aaron for 5 years now. He knows he's safe. He knows Aaron's comments mean nothing. He happy bantering with his cousin. This is not a what a gay person looks like around homophobic family members. Trust me.

Nicky, who knows what it's like to have people hate him for being gay, feels safe around Aaron. He trusts Aaron.

And the scene above is normally known as mean bantering between frinds/family unless you're deliberately trying to twist someone's character into what it's not. Then you read it as homophobia.

only just realised you had more to write, sorry, didn't realise I was responding too soon.

In response to the above:

I highlighted a part I think you neglected, Aaron (as stated by Nicky himself) doesn't talk particularly kindly to Erik. To me, its pretty evident what issue Aaron has with Erik. But I'm curious to what you might think. Especially after calling this banter, which I guess is just a difference of how we do banter but this is only a one sentence response from Aaron.

In response to this quote you showed: I highlighted another point.

Aaron only speaks up after Seth is saying something negative which includes him.

You said:

This is not really true, regardless of them both being homophobic, they can not get along. Especially with how Seth insulted Aaron.

You made a point about Aaron being on Andrews side, which I guess I can see what you're trying to say. But Aaron doesn't know Andrew is gay at this point, its hardly like he's trying to actively defend a man who he knows is gay from a homophobe.

I get where you're coming from, but you have to understand there are degrees to which people are homphobic. And people have different ways of expressing their prejudice. I have homophobic family members too, and many would react like you said. But not all, some would act more disgusted rather than violent.

I don't mean to be rude, I really don't. But you cant assume your experience with homophobia is universal. That it's what defines what's homophobic and what isn't.

I'm sure you don't intend to do that, but it's almost.. implied? When saying that because it isn't violent then it's not homophobia.

Going back to the text, taking these comments out of the grander context doesn't change anything. Frequently showing disgust towards the one outwardly gay character but none to the straight characters means something.

You can say Nicky feels safe around Aaron, and safe from violence? Sure, but from comments? I wouldn't say so. Aaron isn't a violent homophobe, I'll never say he is one. But it doesn't mean he's not a homophobe.

tw - mentions of abuse, drugs and genuinely any aaron-related trauma themes

ah yes, welcome back to part two of me ranting about the forgotten trauma of our favourite underrated aftg characters who the fandom absolutely shits on, this time, aaron. oh boy. before i begin, anybody seeing this who hates aaron and just will definitely die if they don't urgently disagree with me in the comments, your hates just gonna be deleted but thanks for boosting my post. anyways.

okay so let's start with the first claim that is always so hastily thrown around. "but aaron is homophobic!" okay, so, considering the fact you apparently all ignore seth's actions, when does aaron ever say the f slur? of course he expresses disgust when his cousin makes sexual comments to another guy around him. they're literally related, we all would. neil's gender was not relevant at all.

in fact, when, in actuality has aaron ever canonically spoken about gay people as a collective? because..reading yknow the LITERAL BOOKS he does not.

another thing aaron haters wanna jump on is "he is a dick!" and then..love andrew? now i love both my twinyards here but who are you to call aaron a dick and then get on ur knees for andrew who drugged neil without his consent. this isn't andrew slander, but you guys have really iffy standards. like boohoo you don't like him? HE DOESN'T LIKE YOU LMAO? you think he would care??

now let's get into his trauma and how much that is overlooked. i think people can understandably connect with andrew more and get pissed when aaron has his issues with him and neil but let's remember that aaron walked in on his brother being assaulted by another man. he is obviously going to be an asshole to any man who wants any form of non-platonic interactions with his brother out of worry for the foreseeable future.

what we usually forget is that aaron was raised on drugs and violence and abuse. his mother abused him, beat him and tormented him his entire life. of course his first response to everything is hostility.

another thing is his attitude towards tilda: it is literally 1000% normal to love your abuser idk why that is even a fucking question but yes you can

overall i just think he is treated so unfairly.

he isn't an asshole, he is a brother and a friend and a cousin and he's trying his best.

we need to appreciate him more man.

also "andrew is hotter tho" THEY'RE IDENTICAL

Look im sorry, but:

You're telling me, you're really telling me that after Aaron has been in therapy with Andrew for a while now, has seen his brother give Neil so much that he'd never given Aaron, the way Neil was the only person he spoke to post-rehab, has seen the post-Baltimore reunion, this is when he suddenly decides to use a slur against Neil?

The scene where he's actively trying to figure out if Neil is taking advantage of his brother.

The scene where when Neil punches him for it, he's satisfied and walk away.

This is the scene that tells me more than anything that Andrew's happiness matters more to Aaron than his sexuality. The one where whatever beliefs he may or may not hold are moot because he wants to know if Neil is hurting Andrew.

This is the scene that convinced me Aaron was a good person. Literally in the sentence right before that one, he threatens to kill Neil if he is doing half as much as Drake was. This is not a homophobe talking. This is a brother who doesn't know how to communicate in anything but threats and violence.

In fact, the last time Aaron acted half as disgusted was when Nicky was coming on to Neil in the first book, and Neil was clearly uncomfortable about it. Even then, he literally tells Nicky to stop being creepy, and readers decided that it was in a homophobic way. Wouldn't it make more sense if it was Nickys over the top flirting with a Neil that had already said he didn't swing that bothered Aaron?

I mean, the twins are supposed to hate each other, but the minute Andre walks in, he rats Nicky out for it. Andrew shoves a knife in Nickys chest and Nicky leaves Neil alone after that. Yeah, those are the actions of a homophobe: to tell the brother who curb stomps aggressors and goes to juvie for it.

In fact, the only person who uses the f-slur with any sort of meaning is Seth in tfc. He uses it twice. This scene where Neil punches Aaron is the first and only time Aaron makes a directly homophobic comment, and it is to see if Neil cares about his brother.

And hey, do you know what he does immediately after that? He sees how much Neil cares and uses that as a bargaining chip to break his deal with Andrew, thereby getting proof that Andrew cares about Neil too.

And hey, I'll do you one better, this was Aaron's plan all along. Right after Neil punches him, this is what he says:

Whether or not Aaron is homophobic, you're free to read that however you want, this scene proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Andrew comes before any stupid beliefs he may hold. And that for me, is the most important thing.

real nice.

and hey, I'll do you one better :)

yes. this is the moment aaron calls neil a slur. this is because its the first time aaron has had a moment alone with neil since his and andrews relationship has come to light.

odd. because later in the book, when Roland talks about andreils relationship aaron responds with this:

pretty bitter response to a suggested celebration of a relationship... especially a suggested celebration of a relationship where one of the members is someone who's happiness "more to Aaron than his sexuality."

he certainly doesn't sound as supportive as you want to believe he is.

also. evidently, his beliefs are not moot, even when trying to discover whether Neil is hurting his brother because he still has the idea of throwing a slur in with his accusation.

these things have no correlation. you can be homophobic AND threaten violence to someone you assume is a predator.

funny, you said in your tags that I lack nuance. and somehow, you believe these things are incompatible.

This is only believable when separated from his use of a homophobic slur. When you know he is okay with saying things like that, it comes across more homophobic than anything.

Furthermore. Aaron doesn't act as uncomfortable with Nickys predatory behaviour as you like to suggest.

Now, I don't know about you. But if I saw someone acting predatory. And I was uncomfortable with it. Joking about that person planning to rape the other would certainly not be my response.

Furthermore. Aaron has the initiative to corner Neil to confront him about his worries, when he has only a suspicion (based on exactly NONE of neils behaviour) but when confronted with actual predatory behaviour right in front of him. what does he do? oh yeah. nothing.

this is because (shockingly! he isnt as good as you think) he gives absolutely zero shits about whether nicky is actually a predator.

True! Only, you may be shocked to discover, using slurs, even if to provoke somebody to discover something, is still bigoted!!!

Again, I don't know you. But I would NEVER. and I mean NEVER. use a slur. against anyone!! for any reason!! cause it doesn't take a genuis to figure out that it's not okay. (and still bigoted.)

[and then you have an extra little paragraph and a quote that I cba copy and pasting]

I don't really know what point you're trying to make here (cuz there isn't one.) but Aaron using their relationship for his own gain really does not suggest anything about his beliefs.

If with the whole "this was Aaron's plan all along" thing you're suggesting he called Neil a slur so he could date his girlfriend. Sure, I guess? doesn't change anything. Still bigoted.

Again. The "it's not something to be proud of quote", very bitter for a guy who believes Andrew comes first before his homophobia. And then we also, of course, still have the flamer comment! very odd, that if Andrew comes before his beliefs, he still can't help himself throwing a slur in there... I wonder why that might be?

And lastly, no. Its not up to how you interpret it. He's homophobic. And I do have to admit, I think it's kinda fucked up to look at examples of homophobia (which will be similar to people's real life experiences fyi) and say its not homophobia. and for what? so you can feel better about yourself for stanning him? and then act like assholes to people who see homophobia and call it what it is?

you also won't like to hear, aaron sounds pretty prejudice against acespec people too! considering that in the original quote I responded to OPs post with, he describes neil sexuality as a "i-dont-date high horse".

tw - mentions of abuse, drugs and genuinely any aaron-related trauma themes

ah yes, welcome back to part two of me ranting about the forgotten trauma of our favourite underrated aftg characters who the fandom absolutely shits on, this time, aaron. oh boy. before i begin, anybody seeing this who hates aaron and just will definitely die if they don't urgently disagree with me in the comments, your hates just gonna be deleted but thanks for boosting my post. anyways.

okay so let's start with the first claim that is always so hastily thrown around. "but aaron is homophobic!" okay, so, considering the fact you apparently all ignore seth's actions, when does aaron ever say the f slur? of course he expresses disgust when his cousin makes sexual comments to another guy around him. they're literally related, we all would. neil's gender was not relevant at all.

in fact, when, in actuality has aaron ever canonically spoken about gay people as a collective? because..reading yknow the LITERAL BOOKS he does not.

another thing aaron haters wanna jump on is "he is a dick!" and then..love andrew? now i love both my twinyards here but who are you to call aaron a dick and then get on ur knees for andrew who drugged neil without his consent. this isn't andrew slander, but you guys have really iffy standards. like boohoo you don't like him? HE DOESN'T LIKE YOU LMAO? you think he would care??

now let's get into his trauma and how much that is overlooked. i think people can understandably connect with andrew more and get pissed when aaron has his issues with him and neil but let's remember that aaron walked in on his brother being assaulted by another man. he is obviously going to be an asshole to any man who wants any form of non-platonic interactions with his brother out of worry for the foreseeable future.

what we usually forget is that aaron was raised on drugs and violence and abuse. his mother abused him, beat him and tormented him his entire life. of course his first response to everything is hostility.

another thing is his attitude towards tilda: it is literally 1000% normal to love your abuser idk why that is even a fucking question but yes you can

overall i just think he is treated so unfairly.

he isn't an asshole, he is a brother and a friend and a cousin and he's trying his best.

we need to appreciate him more man.

also "andrew is hotter tho" THEY'RE IDENTICAL

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