you see why i love and hate tywin

unzipmygenespls  asked:

Can I just say first that I /love/ reading everything you post. I've been a silent follower for awhile, but I'm always so amazed to see your meta! Anyways, I just wanted to ask (and I don't know if you've answered it before), what's your personal theory on why Tywin decided to raise Tyrion rather than desert him? Assuming he's hated Tyrion since he was born, I really do wonder what drove /Tywin Lannister/ to keep the baby?

It’s because Tyrion is a Lannister. The text says as much:

Had I been born a peasant, they might have left me out to die, or sold me to some slaver’s grotesquerie. Alas, I was born a Lannister of Casterly Rock, and the grotesqueries are all the poorer. 

Tywin literally believes a Lannister is “worth more” than other people. Even a Lannister with dwarfism is ~better~ than other “lesser beasts”. That was one of the things the show did right in season 1, when Tywin explains how Tyrion “may be the least of the Lannisters, but he’s still a Lannister.”

Tywin doesn’t care about many Lannisters on a personal level (he treats a lot of his own relations like shit tbh), but he cares about Lannisters as … commodities … as parts of the whole. It’s why he sends search parties looking for Gerion after he’s lost, it’s why he sends people searching for Tyrek in ASOS. They’re Lannisters, and Tywin, as the head of House Lannister, looks after his own. 

Kevan: “You are my brother’s son.”
Tyrion: “You might remind him of that.”
Kevan: “Do you think he would allow you to take the black if you were not his own blood, and Joanna’s?” 

And later:

“This escape is folly. You are not to be killed, if that is what you fear. It’s still my intent to send you to the Wall, but I could not do it without Lord Tyrell’s consent.”

Lannisters get special treatment from Tywin that would not be afforded to non-Lannisters. It’s very similar to Walder Frey’s views, actually: 

Lord Walder […] was querulous and stubborn, with an iron will and a wasp’s tongue, but he did believe in taking care of his own. All of his own, even the ones who had displeased and disappointed himEven the ones whose names he can’t remember. Once he was gone, though …

When Ser Stevron had been heir, that was one thing. The old man had been grooming Stevron for sixty years, and had pounded it into his head that blood was blood. But Stevron had died whilst campaigning with the Young Wolf in the west […] It was like to be every son for himself when the old man died, and every daughter as well.

And you have to realize, everyone thought Tyrion was going to die shortly after he was born anyway. Cersei said to Oberyn as a child: ”Everyone says he’s like to die soon. He shouldn’t even have lived this long.” So Tywin believed the “problem” would take care of itself. He got a wet nurse and he hid Tyrion away deep within Casterly Rock and tried to forget about him. But of course Tyrion would never stop crying as a baby, a constant reminder to Tywin. Of course Tyrion clung tenaciously to life in spite of what Tywin thought. 

Show!Tywin restraining himself from throwing his newborn son into the sea is not book!canon. As much as Tywin is revolted by Tyrion, as much as he hates him, you don’t just throw Lannisters out. Tyrion’s a Lannister.

interjected-perspective  asked:

Why do you think the fandom is more apt to believe that Lyanna went with Rhaegar willinging instead of her being kidnapped by him? I've read it's bc Ned doesn't think about Rhaegar with the hate that Robert does. Yet, Ned doesn't seem to be a hateful person. I can't recall him having hateful thoughts towards Aerys despite his father and brother unjust murder. People refer to Lyanna as a homewrecker or a naive idiot. Why is that easier to believe than her being a victim of Rhaegar's obsession?

Ned certainly has hateful thoughts — consider how he thinks of the Lannisters, especially Tywin and Jaime. Just from a brief search, I found these quotes:

“Ned would sooner entrust a child to a pit viper than to Lord Tywin”

“Ned Stark would have loved nothing so well as to see them [Jaime and Sandor] both lose”

“Do you remember Ser Jorah Mormont?”
“Would that I might forget him,” Ned said bluntly.

“What a wretched king I’ve been. Bad as Aerys, the gods spare me.”
“No,” Ned told his dying friend, “not so bad as Aerys, Your Grace. Not near so bad as Aerys.”

So you can’t say Ned’s so mild-mannered that he can’t hold a grudge. But it’s not just Ned who doesn’t seem to hate Rhaegar, it’s everybody who knew him and speaks of him, with Robert as the only exception. Painting him as a crazy kidnapper and slavering rapist seems remarkably out of character. Some would say that it just took a while for the Targaryen madness to kick in, but from Jaime’s memories right before the Battle of the Trident, Rhaegar seemed perfectly rational.

So when you weigh all the evidence, people tend to judge more on Rhaegar’s side, and think the “kidnapping” was far more willing than it appeared. Also, fandom has an extremely strong tendency to romanticize… not just the stereotypical fangirl woobifiers, but the handsome-prince-and-beautiful-maiden storyteller types as well. And then there’s GRRM’s tendency towards irony and deconstruction — Brandon Stark charges heedlessly into the Mad King’s claws to save his sister, Robert “starts a war” to rescue his betrothed — wouldn’t it be just like these books if she had never been kidnapped at all?

Personally, I believe in a balance of both views — that Lyanna may have been charmed by Rhaegar, but also saw him as a way out of the marriage to Robert that she didn’t want — and he saw the perfect mother of the child he had to have for the prophecy, which to him was much more important than mere politics.

And I hate the homewrecker / seductress depiction of Lyanna with all the depth of my soul, but of course she was naive. She was only 14 at Harrenhal, 15 (or possibly younger) when she went off with Rhaegar. That’s not an adult even by Westeros standards, Ned even calls her a “child-woman”. And we know from all the Stark children that being sheltered and naive and having a tendency to believe in story roles is pretty typical of them. (Yes, all of them; Bran and Arya and Sansa believed in knights, Jon believed in the goodness of the Night’s Watch, etc. And Ned was not exactly good at the game or dealing with false faces either, was he.)

If Lyanna went willingly with Rhaegar because she believed he loved her, or if he told her she was a warrior like Queen Visenya and promised her all the things her father and her culture wouldn’t let her have, if she didn’t know about his obsession — that’s being naive, yes, but not being an idiot. And if she wasn’t kidnapped, yet when she learned how everything had gone so horribly wrong for her family and the country, when she learned it was because of her, when she finally realized she was in way too deep, when she learned she couldn’t escape… well, yes, you definitely could call her a victim of Rhaegar’s obsession. But not in the way Robert thought she was.

(Note, besides the links above, I’ve talked about this many times, and consider this fic near-canon.)