I think Jamie is definitely a flawed character but I still love him. What's your overall take on him as a character throughout the series? :)
I have been thinking about this a lot lately. As someone who fell in love with the show first, and primarily with Claire, and thus Jamie as an extension of her story, I have a tendency to over-romanticise him as a straight-forward hero. I think the show definitely interprets him in a softer, more overtly gallant way. Sam’s Jamie is a literal King Of Men: honest, good, and brave, almost to a fault. I think they did an amazing job with Jamie’s emotional struggles after Wentworth, but in general the show doesn’t give him a lot of the conflicting moral shades you see in the book. Jamie’s violent proclivities are usually framed as unquestionably noble, and his more problematic actions, such as beating Claire in season 1 (and I anticipate with Geneva in season 3), as scenes that are to be taken lightly or with humour. Maybe that is how you are supposed to read those scenes in the books too, but I have a difficult time with that.
There is definitely a dark undercurrent and slightly disturbing edge to book Jamie that I found jarring when I first read them. Yes, he is heroic, kind and loveable on the page too, but he often does and says things I find VERY uncomfortable as a reader, and I genuinely find him frightening sometimes. His sheer physicality; his towering height, his strength; and his single-mindedness once he decides upon a course of action. He is a machine of war, honed on the battlefield, and he can become an unstoppable force of wrath and bloody-minded vengeance at the flick of a switch … it bothers me a bit that Claire isn’t more disturbed by that. My absolute favourite part of Written In My Own Heart’s Blood is when she confronts him about it, and he is emotionally flawed by the doubt it casts upon his whole sense of self. It is beautiful and heartbreaking.
“I am not a state at war, and you are not my army!” He began to speak, then stopped short, searching my face, his eyes intent. “Am I not?” he said quietly.
I’m obviously deeply invested in his all-consuming relationship with Claire, but even that is a little terrifying. Their love is SO INTENSE that it sometimes feels like it is veering towards chaos. I think he would probably murder the whole world to protect her, and that’s not healthy … but damn if it isn’t compelling. At the same time, the poor guy has been through A LOT of traumatic, violent, nasty stuff, and many of his flaws are a direct result of the truly twisted sides of humanity he has had to endure. So yes, I love him for being a brave warrior and survivor who is fiercely protective of his family and capable of deep kindness and passion despite the horrors he has been through, and for loving Claire so deeply and desperately. But he is also a damaged, blood-thirsty, co-dependent dude, born in a dark, brutal time in history, and I find him fascinating and compelling for all those reasons too. :)
Tbh I get kinda mad when people say that Deacon was lying about Barbara, like okay you can believe whatever you want cuz he's fictional and it shouldn't bother me so much but COME ON he's not a jerk I don't think even he would lie about something like that, all his other lies are about such unimportant things compared to that one and he acted totally different you can tell he wasn't lying I mean really //end rant
I agree with you here Spills 1000%. Lying about having a dead spouse for sympathy and/or trickery would belie Deacon as being a sociopath, which he definitely is not. I mean, he sacrifices his life and identity on a daily basis for the sake of a whole other race of people. Also, he’s quick to fess up to his lies if you have the charisma enough to catch him in one. But if you refuse his final dialogue (depending on the severity with which you do so) he is either understanding or angry with himself. There are tons of other, more articulate posts in favor of the final dialogue, so I’m not gonna drag mine out. Instead…
My personal “headcanon”or whatever, I guess “read” is more appropriate, is that Deacon didn’t lie in his final affinity dialogue(at least not completely, but I’m still in the “it’s the whole truth” camp). I think he genuinely feels like scum and that he doesn’t deserve a position in the Railroad. I believe he changes his face partly for the practicality it confers to him as a spy, partly to try and erase the man who he once was, and partly as a sort of self-inflicted punishment. I mean, that many surgeries has to take a physical toll on someone, not to mention the emotional and psychological damage that probably come along with it.
When Barbara died, Deacon lost his hope, and I’m betting he agreed to join the Railroad because without his wife he had no direction, and he figured fighting the Institute would be the closest thing to justice he could get for Barbara.
Now here’s Sole: all old world looks and old world values. They reach out to Deacon and offer him friendship, something Deacon has been withholding from himself for a long time. Deacon thought he was strong. He thought he could effectively wall himself off from the rest of the world, and that did work for a while, but only because these post war types don’t bother making friendships with people who don’t reciprocate the gesture.
But Sole manages to bust through Deacon’s monolithic barriers. They constantly forgive him for his lies, the one thing about Deacon that most pushes people away. When Sole looks at him, they don’t see scum, or an irrevocable liar; They see a broken man and a friend.
And maybe, just maybe, since Sole can forgive Deacon for being a liar, they can forgive him for his past, for being a real piece of filth. It’s all-consuming at first: the thought, the hope. It hurts. Ever since Barbara died, Deacon’s never been this compulsive, but he’s tired of running and hungry for closure. Maybe it’s time he grieved.
And so he let’s his guard down. He tells Sole everything and waits, cringing, for the cosmic punchline. For Sole to justifiably spit in his face and send him away.
But they don’t.
They apologize to him.
They apologize to him.
Deacon knows he doesn’t deserve it and refuses the hug, but inside he’s flooded with relief. Telling Sole about the Claws and Barbara, he never knew he could be so free. For the first time in years he’s consumed with the desire to run and shout and laugh and cry all at once!
Instead, he tucks the happy thought away with careful experience and contents himself with a small outward smile, hoping from this small gesture that Sole understands the true depth of his gratitude.
Yes! I love her for being a depressed, suicidal abuse survivor who is the sole provider for her younger sibling, working minimum wage in fast food, and still somehow finding the will to keep trying to fight for what’s right. Even with all the show’s problems, that element always feels encouraging to me.
I don't understand why people love Joker or Harley Quinn if they are clearly dangerous killers like... Jason Todd kills bad guys. Joker kills for fun, even kids. That's not the same thing. AJ, can you explain this?
I agree, nonnie; Im constantly baffled by folks who think Joker is amazing and misunderstood, or take his side… I honestly cant explain it; it’s unfathomable to me how anyone can see good in him. It makes me uncomfortable seeing people support/defend him because a majority of them also romanticize abusive ships or abuse within ships, as well as displaying abusive tactics themselves…
I’ve heard some people say they like the Joker solely because he’s a good character, with depth and interesting dynamics, but even from a writer’s standpoint I still find that difficult to fully understand…
Regarding Harley though, I can understand the love for her a little more than for the Joker; for me personally, it’s solely her journey from an abuse victim to freeing herself from the Joker, finding a healthier romantic relationship when compared to Joker (Poison Ivy)… But when it comes to her violence and killings, I do not condone, support, or excuse it. She is a bad person for those actions that she’s done; is she, however, an inspirational character for abuse survivors like me? Yes, and I can understand the love for her based on this aspect of her character :/
Im also going to talk briefly about the love for Jason, because sometimes I think he’s a softer or better version of Harley, that is the reasonings for his fanbase is similar; beyond his background of being poor and a victim of circumstances, plus talking of the symptoms he shows for various mental illnesses, all of which is something I think a lot of us can relate with, he is also an abuse survivor (his parents, the Joker) and I know his love is well documented but I think this is important to talk about when comparing these 3 characters…
So, Im not a lot of help but that’s my thought on the whole Joker, Harley, Jason stuff :)
okay, guys. i have a thing to pitch that’s been sort of on the backburner for a while, but i (and the lovely Q) figure it’s time to finally ask around and start gauging interest. so, indulge me very briefly?
here’s the bottom line: fallout 4 gets a lot of shit. it’s boring or it’s predictable or too short or too long, the story is too linear or the workshop is frustrating, it’s not as good as new vegas for any of like three hundred reasons. and don’t get me wrong, there are some perfectly valid critiques of the game (& fandom, yes, we know) that i’m not in the market to discount, but…
guys, i love this game. and - listen, i don’t care if all they can say is “yes” in a number of meaningless ways, i love the sole survivor. and i love so many interpretations of them that i’ve seen across fandom! there is so much love and effort being poured into this character - these characters, really - that so often goes unnoticed or simply buried under other content. so, i figure, what better way to generate a little positivity than to collaborate, and create some ourselves? and even, maybe, ending up in something that folks can look at and hold in their hands. :D
so that’s where this thing comes in. (please forgive the quickie wip banner, i promise if this ends up being our title i’ll think of somethin’ nicer.) but my goal with this potential zine is to showcase sole survivors and their stories - pre-war, post-war, railroad heavies and institute heirs, atom cats and comic book heroes, mothers or fathers or none of the above, whoever they are and whoever they’ve turned out to be! 0: as our idea stands it will be limited to art pieces, and the only rule will be no canon characters allowed, with the exception of dogmeat.
on that note: i realize there are sole survivors whose stories become intertwined with a faction’s people or a love interest - trust me, one of my own does the same! - but i really want to focus on the character themselves, and avoid ANY kind of sense of competition or pettiness - this zine would be about promoting positivity, showing off a lot of interesting character interpretations, and generating a conversation about original characters on their own. while we all adore the canon characters too, this just wouldn’t be the place for them. (dogmeat is the exception here because he is perfect and transcends rules, should you choose to include him.)
i’m sorry to have gone on for so long! x__x this post is really just to gauge interest anyway, so - y’all! if you want to signal boost this that’d be great, and feel free to let me know in your tags or via message or im what your thoughts are? :D if the response is positive enough i’d be more than happy to organize this project with Q and get it rolling. thank you!! ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥