anonymous asked:

If wyman is an ambitious man, why is his son wylis married into a vassal house of the manderlys ? Thank you

Thanks for the question, Anon.

Unfortunately, we know very little about Lady Leona or House Woolfield, which drastically limits to what extent we can answer why Lord Manderly married his elder son to her. Maybe there were no available Northern matches for Wylis - or none Wyman particularly liked - about the time he was coming of age, and Wyman thought it better to start producing Manderly heirs of the next generation quickly. Maybe, if House Woolfield is from in or around the Sheepshead Hills, Wyman thought it essential to firm up his northern border against the Boltons, or thought the Sheepshead Hills would be a nice launching-off point for an eventual takeover of the Hornwood (especially since he or his father had probably arranged that marriage between Donella Manderly and Halys Hornwood). Maybe, like Doran and Mellario, Ser Wylis simply fell in love with her and wed her, and - being that she was of acceptable family - Wyman felt obligated to allow the match. Or maybe something completely different.

But keep in mind, Wyman Manderly is still a feudal overlord: if his conversation with Davos can be believed, he commands “a dozen petty lords and a hundred landed knights”. In as much as Stark lords have traditionally wed daughters of vassal Houses to Winterfell - your Glovers, Karstarks, Manderlys, and others - so their own bannermen might be expected to replicate that on a smaller scale (we see something similar in Houses Farman and Rowan, where daughters of the liege Houses marry sons of vassal Houses). By marrying his heir to a daughter of one of his own bannermen, Lord Manderly shows an invaluable sign of favor to House Woolfield, which both honors the Woolfields and encourages the other Manderly bannermen that their liege House does not disdain them. This is possibly an even more important point for the Manderlys, given that they are, in the words of Godric Borrell, “no northmen, not down deep”. For all that they have been in the North for a thousand years, the Manderlys are still outsiders - Seven-worshipers in the lands of the old gods, knights in a land without southron chivalry, reacher transplants now beyond the Neck. If the Woolfields are native northmen, and I think it stands to reason they are, then a marriage between a Manderly and a Woolfield might have seemed a natural move to further integrate the Manderlys into the North, mixing the blood of White Harbor-area natives with these former reachlords to make suitably northern heirs.

The Queen Regent (NFriel)

On the surface, Wyman Manderly killing Rhaegar, Symond and Jared Frey the moment he is free of host obligations and baking them into pies to serve at Ramsay’s wedding is only a commentary on the violation of guest right that took place at the Red Wedding. At best, any additional connection comes from the  tongue-in-cheek nod to all the comments about Lord Manderly’s weight via the connection to the Rat Cook who is an enormous white rat that serves as inspiration for Lord Too-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse of White Harbor.

But there’s more to the pies than just being a creative way of extracting revenge while mocking the Freys and the Boltons. We have to wonder why Lord Manderly chose such an unorthodox method that shows a sinister side not typically known of the Manderlys. Why didn’t he just kill the Freys and dump their body somewhere obscure, never to be found? Yes, it’s a direct link to the popular song about the gods’ punishment for those who break sacred guest right. But is that it?

Throughout the whole mummer’s farce, Lord Manderly is basing his revenge plans on things the Freys or the Boltons have done in a series of moves that speak of poetic justice, from skirting around guest right to promising betrothals as a way to lure the Freys to planning to bleed the Bolton supporters in the same way Roose Bolton bled the Northern forces. Now the Freys did make a mockery of Robb’s Young Wolf title by sewing Grey Wind’s head on his body, and made a mockery of the Tullys’ funeral rituals by throwing Catelyn’s body into the river, but while serving the pies and Manderly’s attitude afterwards is a sly mocking of the Freys and the Boltons, the connection stops at that.

Or so it seems. Our first meeting with Wyman Manderly in ADWD is helpfully rife with references to people whose stories pertain to cannibalism one way or another, people who Lord Manderly holds dear that were either made to eat human flesh or falsely accused of doing it by the Freys, Boltons and Lannisters. True to his form of inspired retribution, Manderly prepares a revengeful dish, served steaming.

1. Wylis Manderly:

Lord Manderly’s son and heir, the one whose safety is made possible by Davos’ arrival in White Harbor with how it gave Manderly the chance to prove his good faith to the Lannister, ensuring Wylis’s safe return by the time Davos learns of Manderly’s true loyalties.

In ASOS, Ser Wylis is taken captive by the Lannisters as a direct result of Roose Bolton’s betrayal. In a ploy to bleed the Northern houses loyal to the Starks, Roose Bolton puts Wylis and the knights of White Harbor in the rearguard of his forces when they are crossing the Trident by small boats, making it that Wylis and a host of Northerners are stranded when Gregor Clegane attacks, leading to Wylis’ capture.

Held at Harrenhal under the command of Clegane and his men, Wylis and the other hostages are served parts of Vargo Hoat’s body with Wylis eating the lion’s share of the “roast goat”

“One of the captives was always begging food,” Rafford admitted, “so Ser [Gregor] said to give him roast goat. The Qohorik didn’t have much meat on him, though. Ser took his hands and feet first, then his arms and legs.”  

“The fat bugger got most, m'lord,” Shitmouth offered, “but Ser, he said to see that all the captives had a taste. And Hoat too, his own self.” (Jaime III, AFFC)

It’s unknown if Wylis finds out that he has been served human flesh, Jaime wonders the same thing when he sees him. But as crazy and sadistic Gregor Clegane is, chances are Wylis is made aware of it at one point, if he was ever fooled in the first place.

2. Donella Hornwood:

Both Wylla and Wyman Manderly conveniently reminds us of the Lady Hornwood plot from ACoK, and of why Ramsay is widely despised and reviled across the North, even before his part in the sack of Winterfell is found out.

[Wylla Manderlly]: ”[Ramsay] won’t ever be my lord! He made Lady Hornwood marry him, then shut her in a dungeon and made her eat her fingers.“  

A murmur of assent swept the Merman’s Court. "The maid tells it true,” declared a stocky man in white and purple, whose cloak was fastened with a pair of crossed bronze keys. “Roose Bolton’s cold and cunning, aye, but a man can deal with Roose. We’ve all known worse. But this bastard son of his … they say he’s mad and cruel, a monster.” (Davos III, ADWD)

Wyman brings it up again in his conversation with Davos, the same one in which he betrays his intentions to kill the three Freys currently residing under his roof.

“The evil is in [Ramsay’s] blood,” said Robett Glover. “He is a bastard born of rape. A Snow, no matter what the boy king says.”

“Was ever snow so black?” asked Lord Wyman.“Ramsay took Lord Hornwood’s lands by forcibly wedding his widow, then locked her in a tower and forgot her. It is said she ate her own fingers in her extremity” (Davos IV, ADWD)

It’s a reminder of the dispute over Lord Hornwood’s lands that ended with Ramsay marrying and raping Lady Hornwood before starving her to the point of eating her fingers. Wyman points out that Roose Bolton has decreed that he gives up control of the Hornwood land and castles to Ramsay, lands that Manderly came in control of - after the North cracked down on Ramsay and he was thought to be dead in ACoK - because Donella Hornwood was Donella Manderly before marriage. She is Wyman Manderly’s cousin.

3. Robb Stark:

The first person on this list who didn’t actually eat human flesh but was slandered by his enemies as a vicious cannibal going back to ACoK.

Sansa had always thought Lancel Lannister comely and well spoken, but there was neither pity nor kindness in the look he gave her.

“Using some vile sorcery, your brother fell upon Ser Stafford Lannister with an army of wargs, not three days ride from Lannisport. Thousands of good men were butchered as they slept, without the chance to lift sword. After the slaughter, the northmen feasted on the flesh of the slain. (Sansa III, ACoK)

The same lie is perpetuated by the Freys in the Merman’s court and used to put the blame of the Red Wedding on Robb himself. Not only that but they try to sell the lie that Robb could turn into a wolf. They try to paint him as a savage violent animal who attacked and killed his own men.

One of the Freys stepped forward [..] “The Red Wedding was the Young Wolf’s work. He changed into a beast before our eyes and tore out the throat of my cousin Jinglebell, a harmless simpleton. He would have slain my lord father too, if Ser Wendel had not put himself in the way.” […]

The enormity of the lie made Davos gasp. “Is it your claim that Robb Stark killed Wendel Manderly?” he asked the Frey.

“And many more. Mine own son Tytos was amongst them, and my daughter’s husband. When Stark changed into a wolf, his northmen did the same. The mark of the beast was on them all. Wargs birth other wargs with a bite, it is well-known. It was all my brothers and I could do to put them down before they slew us all.” (Davos III, ADWD)

The Freys obviously use their desecration of Robb’s body by sewing Grey Wind’s head onto his body as a tongue-in-cheek echo to their lie about Robb’s warging which they promptly use to pin the crime of breaking guest right on him and his men and slander him as a beast who feasted on human flesh and not only tried to kill his host (who, in a broader definition of kinship, was made to be Robb’s kin by Edmure’s marriage to Roslin) but also killed his own loyal vassal, Wendel Manderly.

4. Rickon Stark:

The precious cargo Davos is sent to secure in exchange for Wyman’s fealty. Rickon and Osha are currently on Skagos, a place that Davos reflects on when Wyman states the terms for his allegiance.

For half a heartbeat Davos considered asking Wyman Manderly to send him back to the Wolf’s Den, to Ser Bartimus with his tales and Garth with his lethal ladies. In the Den even prisoners ate porridge in the morning. But there were other places in this world where men were known to break their fast on human flesh. (Davos IV, ADWD)

Although Bran and Rickon originally flee from Theon, their hiding in the crypts speaks of them waiting for help, for a Northern force to come to liberate Winterfell from the Ironborn. It’s Ramsay’s sacking Winterfell that forces them out to seek safety in another place, ultimately leading Osha to conceal Rickon on Skagos, an island with a sinister reputation for the widely believed notion that it has a cannibal population.

So, to review: Roose Bolton causes the capture of Mandely’s son who os fed human flesh in captivity. Ramsay forcibly marries Manderly’s cousin and starves her to the point of eating her own fingers, then sacks Winterfell causing Rickon to end up on cannibal island. And the Freys slander Robb’s name by putting forward a fable about how he ate both his enemies and his men.

In return, Wyman Manderly makes them all eat human flesh, feeds the Freys their own brothers, and eats from the pies himself, making Lancel’s words about the Northerners feasting on the flesh of the slain a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The North sure remembers.

Typical Girls Names of The North
  • Alys (Alys Stark was a daughter of Lord Cregan Stark and Lady Alysanne Blackwood, Alys Karstark I married Lord Brandon Stark, Alys Karstark II married to Sigorn, Magnar of Thenn)
  • Alysane- a varient of the popular Alysanne (Alysane Mormont also known as the Young She-Bear is Lady Maege Mormont’s second daughter.)
  • Aregelle (Aregelle Stark was the eldest daughter of Elric Stark and Serena Stark she married Robard Cerwyn)
  • Arra (Arra Norrey was married Lord Cregan Stark) 
  • Arrana (Arrana Stark was the youngest daughter of Edric Stark and Serena Stark she married Osric Umber)
  • Arsa (Arsa Stark was a daughter of Lord Brandon Stark and Lady Alys Karstark)
  • Arya (Arya Flint was married to Rodrik Stark grandmother to Eddard, Arya Stark Lord Eddard and Catelyn Tully’s second daughter)
  • Barbrey (Barbrey Ryswell was married William Dustin and is the current lady of House Dustin)
  • Berena (Berena Hornwood is wife of Leobald Tallhart and the sister of the current Lord Halys Hornwood, Berena Stark was the eldest daughter of Lord Beron Stark and Lady Lorra Royce)
  • Eddara (Eddara Tallhart the daughter of Ser Helman Tallhart)
  • Erena (Erena Glover the daughter of the current Lord Robett and Lady Sybelle Glover)
  • Jyana (Jyana Reed is the wife of Lord Howland Reed and the mother of Meera and Jojen Reed)
  • Lorra (Lorra Royce was married to Lord Beron Stark)
  • Lyanna (Lyanna Mormont the youngest daughter of Lady Maege Mormont, Lyanna Stark I the only daughter of Cregan Stark and Lady Lynara Stark, Lyanna Stark II sister to Lord Eddard)
  • Lyanne (Lyanne Glover was married Lord Willam Stark)
  • Lyarra (Lyarra Stark was the second daughter of Rodrik Stark and Arya Flint and married to her cousin once removed Lord Rickard Stark, and had four children with him; Brandon, Eddard, Lyanna and Benjen Stark.)
  • Lyessa (Lyessa Flint is the current Lady of Widow’s Watch)
  • Lynara (Lynara Stark was the third wife of Lord Cregan Stark)
  • Lyra (Lyra Mormont is the third daughter of Lady Maege Mormont)
  • Lysara (Lysara Karstark was married to Artos Stark)
  • Sansa (Sansa Stark I was the Lady of Winterfell and the second daughter of Rickon Stark and Jeyne Manderly she married her father’s half-brother Lord Jonnel Stark, Sansa Stark II first daughter of Eddard Stark and Catelyn Tully)
  • Sarra (Sarra Stark was the eldest daughter of Lord Cregan Stark and Lady Alysanne Blackwood)
  • Serena (Serena Stark was the eldest daughter of Rickon Stark she married twice once to Jon Umber and then to her uncle Edric Stark)
  • Wylla (Wylla Fenn was from the Neck and was the mother of Lord Brandon Stark’s bastard son Lonnel Snow, Wylla Manderly is the second daughter of Ser Wylis Manderly and Leona Woolfield and granddaughter to Lord Wyman)
  • Wynafryd (Wynafryd Manderly is the eldest daughter of Ser Wylis Manderly and Leona Woolfield and granddaughter to Lord Wyman)
And the Birds sing no more - AzraelGFG - Game of Thrones (TV) [Archive of Our Own]
An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works
By Organization for Transformative Works

Chapters: 70/70
Fandom: Game of Thrones (TV), A Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin
Rating: Explicit
Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence, Major Character Death, Rape/Non-Con
Relationships: Sandor Clegane/Sansa Stark, Sandor Clegane & Sansa Stark, Sandor Clegane & Arya Stark, Talisa Maegyr/Robb Stark, Robb Stark & Sansa Stark & Catelyn Stark, Alys Karstark/Jon Snow, Jon Snow & Arya Stark, Sandor Clegane & Jon Snow, Jon Snow & Arya Stark & Sansa Stark, Arya Stark/Gendry Waters, Shireen Baratheon & Bran Stark, Shireen Baratheon/Bran Stark, Shireen Baratheon & Sansa Stark, Sansa Stark&Alys Karstark, Arya Stark & Sansa Stark
Characters: Sansa Stark, Sandor Clegane, Robb Stark, Catelyn Tully Stark, Arya Stark, Brynden Tully, Edmure Tully, Joffrey Baratheon, Cersei Lannister, Tywin Lannister, Roose Bolton, Lyanna Mormont, Jon Snow, Bran Stark, Tormund Giantsbane, Robett Glover, Wyman Manderly, Dacey Mormont, Maege Mormont, Jon “The Smalljon” Umber, Jon “The Greatjon” Umber, Black Walder Frey, Walder Frey, Lothar Frey, Wendel Frey, Sandor Frey, Roslin Frey, Thoros of Myr, Beric Dondarrion, Anguy (Game of Thrones), Ramsay Bolton, Stannis Baratheon, Selyse Baratheon, Shireen Baratheon, Theon Greyjoy, Jeyne Poole, Ryman Frey, Meera Reed, Hodor (ASoIaF), Rickon Stark, Galbart Glover, Brienne of Tarth, The Elder Brother (ASoIaF), Septon Meribald, Fat Walda Frey, Arnolf Karstark, Mors “Crowfood” Umber, Hother “Whoresbane” Umber, Alys Karstark, Melisandre of Asshai, Wendel Manderly, Wylis Manderly, Daenerys Targaryen, Tyrion Lannister, Margaery Tyrell, Gendry Waters, Wynafryd Manderly, Wylla Manderly, Marlon Manderly, Jered Frey, Rhaegar Frey, Howland Reed, Yara Greyjoy, Barbrey Dustin, Justin Massey, Samwell Tarly, Edd Tollett, Axell Florent, Godry Farring, Asha Greyjoy, Cregan Karstark, Arthor Karstark, Hosteen Frey, Aenys Frey, Jorelle Mormont, Lyra Mormont, Myranda (Game of Thrones), Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, Petyr Baelish, Harrold Hardyng, Yohn Royce, Lyn Corbray, Podrick Payne, Maester Wolkan, Lhara, Cotter Pyke, Brad Lannister
Additional Tags: Canon-Typical Violence, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Post-The Battle of the Blackwater, POV Sansa, POV Sandor, Other Additional Tags to Be Added, Other POVs, Loss of Virginity, Rape/Non-con Elements, Implied/Referenced Rape/Non-con, Fluff, Fluff and Smut, Angst, sansan, SanSan is happening, Elements Season 3-6, medium slow burn i guess, Ramsay is his own warning, no sansa/ramsay, Realistic, medieval traditions, Minor Character Death, Character Death, valar morghulis, Gendrya - Freeform, Wolf Puppies, R plus L equals J, jon x spoiler, bran x spoiler, podrick x spoiler, goblin humping
Series: Part 1 of Singing Birds

Sansa and Sandor escape Kings Landing in the chaos of Stannis Baratheons attack of the city. During their journey to Riverrun, back to Sansas mother and brother,they develope a deep friendship and Sandor finally gives in to stay as her shield.
The gods have decided that the fearsome Hound and the Little Bird are destined to be together, even though the reunion with her family doesnt turn out as Sansa imagined.
If you thought happiness would come without pain and suffering in Westeros you havent been paying attention.

anonymous asked:

there's this marked difference imo. its already shady that cersei is a villain and jaime is an antihero but cersei's villainy sometimes just feels like such a gross petty attack on women themselves imo. cersei isn't just evil, she's evil in all the way that women are sterotyped to be with the added notion that she's not very intelligent. compare that to male villains like roose and tywin and even euron who are painted as super intelligent even though they're awful

I think there’s definitely something to that; as I’ve said, anyone who says Cersei’s character is free of stereotypes and toxic cliches is kidding themselves. 

I will say two things. One, Cersei’s not dumb. She is capable of grasping the world around her and acting accordingly; she recognizes that Jaime’s suggestion RE Mace and Storm’s End is a very good one despite not wanting to need Jaime’s advice, and she competently carries out the release of Wylis Manderly in exchange for Davos’ death, taking it seriously at each step. (Of course, it wasn’t Davos, but let’s not hold that against her.) This is part of what makes Cersei a difficult but fascinating character: she’s been driven mad by patriarchy and so she intends to seize it for herself, but there are these heartbreaking moments where you see she does know better deep down, when she doesn’t feel like she has to smash everyone around her. Different environment (including Joanna still being alive), allowed a healthy relationship to gender and her body, some strict training about empathy regarding Tyrion, poor people, and other women, and Cersei could’ve been…well, we’ll never know. But I’m as sad about that as I am about the knight Jaime could’ve been had he never served a maniac. 

Two, I disagree that GRRM keeps his male villains on a pedestal. Tywin is revealed at the end of ASOS to be a gigantic pathetic hypocrite, and he dies shitting. His daughter, who always thought him superhuman, sees him reduced to a shriveled half-naked old man; his aura of dignity and untouchability is further destroyed by the (poison-induced?) decay of his body. So much of AFFC is spent tearing apart Tywin Lannister’s cherished legacy in the wake of his death, from Cersei to Jaime to the Martells. 

And Euron…look, I take him more seriously than most, but “super intelligent” is not quite right. “Clever manipulative asshole who stumbled upon multiple metaphysical goldmines” is closer to correct IMO. Again, he’s Saruman, not Lex Luthor. 

theaceofwands  asked:

Hi Mindset! So I had a question about ASOIAF. I'm really confused about all the things Tywin Lannister did to win/force the northern vassals' fealty to the crown, and how the Boltons betrayed Robb. Could you please clarify? Thank you!

To win/force the Northerners’ fealty to the crown, Tywin offered the usual carrot and stick – pardons and favors if they bent the knee, punishments if they did not. Punishments could range from attainder, to destruction of lands and castles, to the deaths of hostages. (Particularly those hostages taken at Duskendale or at the Red Wedding, such as Greatjon Umber, Harrion Karstark, and Wylis Manderly.) Favors could include lands and towers and villages and mills and rivers and such, taken from neighbors who did not submit as quickly.

Specifically to Roose Bolton, Tywin offered:

  • the office of Warden of the North, and the castle and lands of Winterfell (i.e. House Bolton becoming the great house to which all the other northern lords would owe fealty)
  • a royal decree of legitimacy for Ramsay Snow
  • “Arya Stark”, returned to the north to marry his son Ramsay

Note this offer was made well before the Red Wedding, as Roose mentioned that Arya had been found while dining with Jaime and Brienne. Also note Roose was certainly aware that the girl provided to him was not the real Arya, but he was willing to go along with it to make a public show of uniting the old great house with the new. (As propaganda to the smallfolk, and to the other northern houses.)

[Though one thing that’s not certain is whether Roose was aware Tywin planned for this arrangement to be only a temporary thing; that Bolton would clear out the ironborn and bring the northern lords to heel during the winter, but in the spring, as soon as Tyrion had a son with Sansa, they would be sent north with Tyrion as Lord Protector of Winterfell and father of the new lord Lannister-Stark. Probably bringing proof that “Arya” was actually Jeyne Poole, and that the marriage was a sham, etc. Oh, and also bringing a big army, bigger than whatever Bolton army had survived the winter.]

Some think Roose Bolton betrayed Robb from nearly day 1, by throwing the Battle on the Green Fork. (In which the greatest part of the losses went to the other Northern houses in the battle, not the forces of House Bolton.) But there he might have only been weakening his neighbors for his own profit, and note the deaths in that battle are what lead to the Hornwood crisis that Ramsay took advantage of. However, it is a fact that after Theon took Winterfell and reportedly killed Bran and Rickon, Roose decided the Stark cause was lost. That’s when he arranged the Battle of Duskendale, a deliberately useless attack on a useless target that wiped out a huge proportion of the Stark army (but not his own men, of course). That’s what left Robb so vulnerable that he needed the Freys again (and thus set up the Red Wedding), and also let the Bolton and Frey forces heavily outnumber the remaining northmen and rivermen at the Twins. (I highly recommend you ask @racefortheironthrone or @warsofasoiaf for details on Roose’s strategies for those two failed battles, as that kind of military stuff is very much their bailiwick and not mine.)

And of course, at the Red Wedding, the Bolton forces attacked the other northern men:

Lord Walder had ordered the slaughter of the Starks at Roslin’s wedding, but it had been Lame Lothar who had plotted it out with Roose Bolton, all the way down to which songs would be played.

–ASOS, Epilogue

One day, in an earthen hollow made by the roots of a fallen oak, they came face to face with another survivor of the Twins. The badge on his breast showed a pink maiden dancing in a swirl of silk, and he told them he was Ser Marq Piper’s man; a bowman, though he’d lost his bow. His left shoulder was all twisted and swollen where it met his arm; a blow from a mace, he said, it had broken his shoulder and smashed his chainmail deep into his flesh. “A northman, it was,” he wept. “His badge was a bloody man, and he saw mine and made a jape, red man and pink maiden, maybe they should get together. I drank to his Lord Bolton, he drank to Ser Marq, and we drank together to Lord Edmure and Lady Roslin and the King in the North. And then he killed me.” His eyes were fever bright when he said that, and Arya could tell that it was true.


and Roose Bolton personally killed Robb Stark.

A man in dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood stepped up to Robb. “Jaime Lannister sends his regards.” He thrust his longsword through her son’s heart, and twisted.

–ASOS, Catelyn VII

badplayleo  asked:

Having trouble with your "fixer" line about Jaime. I think his River lands trek is a high point for the redemption arc, despite who he is working for. He basically delivers the kindest possible resolution to everyone involved. Honor, not Glory.

Well, resolution to what, exactly? Why is there even a resolution to be forced here? Because of the Red Wedding; the only reason Jaime’s in a position to make peace is because his father slaughtered the opposition, and it’s precisely because of that slaughter that said peace will not last. Sure, Jaime saves Pia and Wylis Manderly from the Mountain’s men. But who unleashed the Mountain’s men? Pia and Wylis wouldn’t have suffered in the first place if Jaime and Tywin hadn’t invaded the Riverlands. Jaime is trying to bring the war to a close, yes, but the war only happened because he and Cersei stole the Iron Throne.

So “despite who he is working for” simply does not cut it; it very, very much matters that Jaime is working on behalf of a corrupt, illegitimate, murderous regime. He’s indeed like a fixer or even lawyer for the mob in AFFC, constructing this false veneer of respectability and good faith to paper over the atrocities of the organization for which he speaks. There is no honor to be found in cementing Cersei’s usurpation and Tywin’s victory-by-atrocity. The Tully men are 100% justified in despising Jaime and considering him a pathetic hypocrite. Put yourself in their shoes: imagine your loved ones were viciously murdered, your cause broken in a truly heinous and taboo-breaking fashion…and then the killer’s son shows up at your door saying all he wants is a peaceful resolution, and y’all really just need to be reasonable and surrender yourself to the regime that massacred your friends and family. Would you be impressed with him? Would you say he’s redeeming himself? Because I’d tell him to go fuck himself, as Brynden and Edmure do. You don’t get to murder most of the opposition and then demand moral approbation for letting the remnant live. 

After all, Jaime considers his finest act to be rising up against Aerys’ murderous regime. How can working for Tywin’s murderous regime constitute his redemption? 

(Oh btw, disagreements aside, love the Miller’s Crossing reference!)