vessel of woman

anonymous asked:

Okay this has already probably been discussed a lot, but Benjamin having a female vessel and Cas having a female vessel in the flashback had nothing to do with the plot of the episode, so they couldn't have served any purpose other than reminding us that angels don't have genders and that Cas is explicitly included in that ... could there have been any other reason they did that?

Hi there! And yeah, this has already been discussed a lot, with varied interpretations of what Cas meant.

Benjamin is an angel. His vessel is a woman.

I’ve seen the interpretation that this means that angels don’t have gender identities at all, but that’s absolutely not how I understood it.

Dean asks for clarification, “Wait, so, Benjamin’s a woman?” And I believe that Cas was actually clarifying THE SEPARATION between Benjamin and his vessel, differentiating HIM from THE WOMAN HE USED AS A VESSEL.

Because regardless of the outer appearance, Cas, Ishim, Mirabel… everyone else continues to refer to Benjamin as “he.”

Because he identifies as a “he” independent of his female vessel. He IS NOT that body, the way Castiel IS his body.

Angels seem to retain their pronouns regardless of the gender of their vessel. Hannah was always “she,” Raphael was always “he.” Castiel, too.

But Cas is different. He identifies AS that body he’s in now. The show’s been hammering this fact home for a while now. Dean’s insistence that his body wasn’t an “it,” let us know that that’s how Dean had seen him, anyway, but Cas said it explicitly in 11.23:

Lucifer is gone. Amara ripped him from my body.

MY BODY. Not “this vessel,” or “my vessel.” He is that body now.

I don’t think angels are “genderless.” They just don’t identify AS THE BODIES THEY USE AS VESSELS. They feel separate from them. Which is how Benjamin had carried on a relationship with the woman who’d devoted herself to him, let him occupy her vessel with her, literally shared her body and soul with him for over a century.

I don’t know where this idea is coming from that angels don’t have genders. Or they’d all refer to each other as “they” and “my sibling.” But nope. They’re all “he” or “she” or “my brother” or “my sister.” The difference is that their perceived gender has nothing to do with whatever human vessel they might be occupying at a given time.

Well, aside from Cas.

some reasons why I loved 12x10:

- Dean and Castiel literally acting as a couple. people were saying so on my dash and wow they weren’t kidding. the way they’re fighting and arguing and Sam being the objective third party trying to get them to make up. Cas being sarcastic as hell. the absolute couple vibes in this ep are priceless.

- the fact that the whole episode seem to underline the fact that angels are genderless. Benjamin in the beginning, being in a female vessel. Dean saying “um so Benjamin is a woman?” and Cas saying “Benjamin is an angel. the vessel was a woman.”

- then we get to see CAS IN A FEMALE VESSEL. again reminding us of how Cas is not a man. I love this because in most anti-Destiel discussions people bring up how Cas is “straight” which is moronic considering, and how Dean is “for a fact” straight (I disagree but you know), and it doesn’t fucking matter because Cas is an angel. not a man. not a -sexual anything because angels don’t do sexual orientations. and whereas I definitely don’t love the idea of Destiel only being a possibility if Cas changed into a female vessel, I would still love seeing Destiel become canon, whatever vessel Cas would have to be in. and I almost feel like it’s possible after this episode.

- then the whole plot with an angel being in love with a human and that very angel telling Cas that it’s dangerous for angels to be close to humans (because he fell in love with one and it wrecked him when she rejected him…)

yep… although I try to remind myself that this is SPN and in the words of Jimmy Gold, the character of one of Stephen King’s characters, “Shit don’t mean shit.”

Reasons life sucks even more then usual for a devout Dalish elf post-Trespasser

You know those pantheon of gods you’ve spent your whole life worshiping? 

Yeah they’re not real. Well, they are real but they’re not gods! They’re just really old mages who were assholes just like regular people. And they kept slaves. And those slaves had facial tattoos to mark them as slaves. Hey, don’t you have facial tattoos to worship you’re ‘gods’?

The mother of the entire pantheon, Mythal? She didn’t create the moon or deliver divine justice, she was just the least assholish out of all of them. But maybe not because she chose a human woman as her vessel. A human woman who is such a horrible mother her own daughter wishes her dead. A woman who asked Mythal to help her because she cheated on her husband and got caught. That’s the person you’re not-god chose to inhabit.

And the guy you’ve been hanging out with for a year and/or are in love with who actively criticizes Dalish culture, almost calling them stupid children? He’s a not-god, the Dread Wolf to be exact. Only the Dread Wolf isn’t the trickster god you’ve learned about. He’s really a freer of slaves and the entire reason the elven society died out. But he wants to bring it back, so that’s good? Nope because none of the other modern Dalish elves will be included in it because they’re all going to die when the world ends! But they’re not ‘real elves’ anyway.

Because the only two elves who have any kind of connection to the history of your people? Abelas and Solas? They don’t even see you as their kin, they see you the same as every other human in the world. Yep, the humans who hate and enslave you.

And speaking of elves in the Inquisition, neither of them are Dalish. So if you do happen to fall in love with anyone and you’re clan manages to not get slaughtered, they’ll probably disown you for falling in love with a non-Dalish! And even if they’re not dead they’ve become part of the council of a city of humans, meaning they have to give up their nomadic lifestyle. Which, y’know, is kind of the entire basis of their culture.

But at least you’ve got your friends, right? Well, all of them end of leaving. Which wouldn’t be that bad if you hadn’t spent the last 20+ years surrounded by literally all of your family 24/7/365.

So you’ve got a clan that’s dead, given up their way of life to rule a human city, or disowned you. You’ve got friends who, rightfully, go to lead their own lives but now you’re more alone then you’ve ever been in your entire life.  And you’ve got a religion that not only isn’t real but the people it’s based on owned slaves and would consider you a slave because of your religious expression.

…But the Maker and Andrasteism are totally real, right?

anonymous asked:

Also Benjamin kept the same vessel for over 100 years. That's an interesting point too, imo. So angels can do that (apparently) and the vessel doesn't age. (That could get awkward if the show goes on for another 10 years or something.. cuz Misha's gonna age. At some point they're either going to have to explain that or just make Cas human.) I wonder if the vessel woman consented to 100+ years of angel possession? I'm pretty sure Jimmy Novak wouldn't have. Kinda weird to be possessed that long...

I think it depends on the angel. Benjamin and his vessel were, apparently, an unusual case where the two of them bonded and stayed together out of fondness for each other. Other vessels were used and discarded, generally worse for wear and possibly brain damaged. When Cas was possessed by Lucifer, his grace was burning out just trying to keep Lucifer’s grace from destroying him.

I think death is generally the fate of all vessels. Either, because the angels need the wage war, so they die together, or because the grace of the angel is too much and eventually the soul can’t handle it anymore, dying and moving on while the angel remains- like a flame snuffing out.

But we do know some angels actually care and actually feel protective toward the person that allowed them to use them as a vessel. There are good and kind angels in the bunch, (Cas, Benjamin, Hannah, Samandriel, Ginger Homeless angel, Interstate Trooper angel) they are just few and far between, unfortunately.

I think we’re going to end up with Cas willingly sacrificing what’s left of his grace and becoming human again- under his own terms this time, which is super important, pus Dean and Sam both there to properly support and protect him this time. I think this episode was our first clue that Cas is in a lot worse shape than the Winchesters realized- what with a healing having exhausted him and put his life in danger to where he couldn’t even fight back.

We’ll see.

(Ask Box Open)

I really want dean finding out cas’s past vessel was a woman, and like, dean kinda being upset about it, and asking cas why he doesn’t just get a female vessel. And of course cas is confused, and dean explains it would be easier to like cas that way if he were a female. And now cas is pissed because if dean liked him that way, he wouldn’t care what his vessel looked like. Omg I think I’m gonna write this

Man and woman kissing across two vessels (1920s)

A man and woman share an intimate moment abroad two vessels, the woman possibly on board the SS Champion.

By Samuel J Hood Studio

Australian National Maritime Museum