Do you think Tywin actually thought Tyrion was guilty of poisoning Joffrey?
Thanks for the question, Anon.
Oh, I certainly think so. After all, it’s not just Tywin among the Lannisters who remains unconvinced of Tyrion’s innocence: both his uncle Kevan and his beloved brother Jaime believe that Tyrion could very well be guilty. Nor is it unreasonable for Tywin to think that, at least so far as he has evidence. Tyrion has clearly shown his lack of loyalty to House Lannister, by refusing to get a child on Sansa who can extend the Lannister regime in the North. He has, on multiple occasions, both publicly and privately threatened the king (even slapping him), and used the threat of force against Tommen to manipulate Cersei. His Stark wife was regularly abused by Joffrey, giving him extra motivation to kill his nephew. And, of course, as the king choked his last Tyrion poured out the obviously poisoned wine from the great chalice. As far as Tywin can tell, Tyrion felt no love toward House Lannister and lots of hatred against its boy-king.
Whenever I see pictures of GRRM wearing his silver vests or purple suspenders or something, I think about how he said “Fantasy is silver and scarlet, indigo and azure, obsidian veined with gold and lapis lazuli.” It’s as if GRRM’s outfits are an advertisement of his craft, the way Gendry fashioned a bull helmet for himself. As if GRRM is only a wardrobe away from a bard walking down the streets of King’s Landing, crying out to be heard over the din, “Dreams for sale, tales old and true, stories of wonder!”
Hi! Inspired by that recent ask about Sansa's 5 top moments, could you make it into 10+ character moments, times where she shows her love and loyalty towards her family, times where she shows her wisdom and times where she shows that a "lady's courtesy is her armour". Also maybe you could also add times other people complement Sansa too. All if you are interested in this proposal and have the time to do it. There's no rush in any case. :)
This is an amazing idea. And I will start now with all the times she is complemented for her beauty. ( i will later do a post about sansa being proud of her stark origins because its something i rarely see in ASOIAF metas).
1) Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. Worse, she was beautiful. Sansa had gotten their mother’s fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys.
To the other maidens he had given white roses, but the one he plucked for her was red. “Sweet lady,” he said, “no victory is half so beautiful as you.” Sansa took the flower timidly, struck dumb by his gallantry
When the king’s herald moved forward, Sansa realized the moment was almost at hand. She smoothed down the cloth of her skirt nervously. She was dressed in mourning, as a sign of respect for the dead king, but she had taken special care to make herself beautiful.
“I saw Sansa at the court, the day Tyrion told me his terms. She looked most beautiful, my lady. Perhaps a, a bit wan. Drawn, as it were.”
“Sansa was a lady at three, always so courteous and eager to please. She loved nothing so well as tales of knightly valor. Men would say she had my look,but she will grow into a woman far more beautiful than I ever was, you can see that. I often sent away her maid so I could brush her hair myself. She had auburn hair, lighter than mine, and so thick and soft … the red in it would catch the light of the torches and shine like copper.
”You are very beautiful, my lady,“ the seamstress said when she was dressed.
Tyrion wore a doublet of black velvet covered with golden scrollwork, thigh-high boots that added three inches to his height, a chain of rubies and lions’ heads. But the gash across his face was raw and red, and his nose was a hideous scab. ”You are very beautiful, Sansa,“ he told her.
The music spun them apart before Sansa could think of a reply. It was Mace Tyrell opposite her, red-faced and sweaty, and then Lord Merryweather, and then Prince Tommen. “I want to be married too,” said the plump little princeling, who was all of nine. “I’m taller than my uncle!”“I know you are,” said Sansa, before the partners changed again. Ser Kevan told her she was beautiful.
they lurched into motion, Tyrion reclined on an elbow while Sansa sat staring at her hands. She is just as comely as the Tyrell girl. Her hair was a rich autumn auburn, her eyes a deep Tully blue. Grief had given her a haunted, vulnerable look; if anything, it had only made her more beautiful. He wanted to reach her, to break through the armor of her courtesy.
10) Shae had arranged her hair artfully in a delicate silver net winking with dark purple gemstones. Tyrion had never seen her look more lovely, yet she wore sorrow on those long satin sleeves. “Lady Sansa,” he told her, “you shall be the most beautiful woman in the hall tonight.”
I wish you could see yourself, my lady. You are so beautiful. You’re crusted over with snow like some little bear cub, but your face is flushed and you can scarcely breathe. How long have you been out here? You must be very cold. Let me warm you, Sansa. Take off those gloves, give me your hands.
I was never beautiful like Sansa, but they all said I was pretty. Jeyne’s words seemed to echo in his head, to the beat of the drums two of Abel’s other girls were pounding.
Sansalookedradiant as she walked beside him, but Jon did not like Joffrey’s pouty lips or the bored, disdainful way he looked at Winterfell’s Great Hall.
ourtiers filled the gallery while supplicants clustered near the towering oak-and-bronze doors. Sansa Stark looked especially lovely this morning, though her face was as pale as milk.
15)“Was she your wife? She … she was very beautiful … ”A lovely girl,“ …said Tyrion, "and we were joined beneath the eyes of gods and men. It may be that she is lost to me, but until I know that for a certainty I must be true to her.”
16) Lord Littlefinger kissed her cheek. “With my wits and Cat’s beauty, the world will be yours, sweetling. Now off to bed.”
Oh, I think you do,“ said Littlefinger, with one of those smiles that did not reach his eyes. ”You will be the most beautiful woman in the hall tonight, as lovely as your lady mother at your age. I cannot seat you on the dais, but you’ll have a place of honor above the salt and underneath a wall sconce. The fire will be shining in your hair, so everyone will see how fair of face you are.
18) (my favorite):
Fresh mules awaited them at Snow, and a hot meal of stewed goat and onions. She ate with Mya and Myranda. “So you’re brave as well as beautiful,” Myranda said to her.
(this collection of quotes makes me realize how beauty for sansa is becoming a curse…more than a blessing) (also tyrion wins this contest by far)
In a recent ask, you said: "At this feast (...), the Starks are “flaunting it”. (...) It’s not a careless, casual waste of food and wealth (compare Joffrey’s wedding)" But Joffrey's wedding wasn't just a careless waste of resources, it was Tywin declaring "mission accomplished", the war is over and the Lannisters now reign. Now, it certainly backfired (or went according to plan, depending on which theories you subscribe to), but it certainly wasn't a waste in contrast to Bran's Harvest feast...
The reason I consider Joffrey’s wedding a waste of resources is because it was. Yes, it was a very carefully planned waste of resources, to demonstrate the union of Lannister gold and Tyrell abundance and Baratheon monarchy, to show everyone who were the winners of the War of the Five Kings. But it was still a waste:
“What did you find at the riverfront?” “Mud,” said Tyrion, “and a few dead things no one’s bothered to bury. Before we can open the port again, the Blackwater’s going to have to be dredged, the sunken ships broken up or raised. Three-quarters of the quays need repair, and some may have to be torn down and rebuilt. The entire fish market is gone, and both the River Gate and the King’s Gate are splintered from the battering Stannis gave them and should be replaced. I shudder to think of the cost.” If you do shit gold, Father, find a privy and get busy, he wanted to say, but he knew better. “You will find whatever gold is required.” “Will I? Where? The treasury is empty, I’ve told you that. We’re not done paying the alchemists for all that wildfire, or the smiths for my chain, and Cersei’s pledged the crown to pay half the costs of Joff’s wedding—seventy-seven bloody courses, a thousand guests, a pie full of doves, singers, jugglers…” “Extravagance has its uses. We must demonstrate the power and wealth of Casterly Rock for all the realm to see.” “Then perhaps Casterly Rock should pay.” “Why? I have seen Littlefinger’s accounts. Crown incomes are ten times higher than they were under Aerys.” “As are the crown’s expenses. Robert was as generous with his coin as he was with his cock. Littlefinger borrowed heavily. From you, amongst others. Yes, the incomes are considerable, but they are barely sufficient to cover the usury on Littlefinger’s loans. Will you forgive the throne’s debt to House Lannister?” “Don’t be absurd.” “Then perhaps seven courses would suffice. Three hundred guests instead of a thousand. I understand that a marriage can be just as binding without a dancing bear.” “The Tyrells would think us niggardly. I will have the wedding and the waterfront. If you cannot pay for them, say so, and I shall find a master of coin who can.”
–ASOS, Tyrion IV
“If you will excuse us, Lady Olenna, it is time we were in our places.” “Myself as well. Seventy-seven courses,
I daresay. Don’t you find that a bit excessive, my lord? I shan’t eat
more than three or four bites myself, but you and I are very little,
–ASOS, Tyrion VIII
“While we are speaking of
amusement, I heard a curious tale from Lord Buckler’s steward. He
claimed that you had put a tax on women’s privy purses.” “It is a tax on whoring,” said Tyrion, irritated all over again. And it was my bloody father’s notion. “Only a penny
for each, ah… act. The King’s Hand felt it might help improve the
morals of the city.” And pay for Joffrey’s wedding besides. Needless to
say, as master of coin, Tyrion had gotten all the blame for it.
–ASOS, Tyrion V
Seventy-seven courses, a hundred birds, all to “demonstrate the power and wealth of Casterly Rock” – but is Casterly Rock paying for it? No, the people are, through raised taxes. While winter is coming, the Riverlands are a ruined wasteland (and soon the starving wreckage will come flooding into the city as sparrows), and King’s Landing was still never fully repaired from the Battle of the Blackwater. The crown borrows and borrows and the debt comes due in AFFC, from the Faith, from the Tyrells, from the Iron Bank of Braavos, from the gods themselves one might even say.
There’s propaganda, that builds morale and builds commoners’ trust in the ruling class. And then there’s wasteful propaganda, that does nothing but bring envy and hate, that spends money like water and gives nothing to the future. “Mission Accomplished”, indeed.
You know how people have these little habits that get you down? Like Joffrey, Joffrey liked to hurt people. No, not hurt, beat! Well, Sansa's in the Throne Room and she's really upset and looking for a little sympathy because all her family is dead, and there's Joffrey, layin' on the throne, holding his crossbow and, hurting Sansa, no, not hurtin', beatin'! So, I thought "you beat that girl one more time" and he did. So I took a crystal from Sansa's necklace and put it in his drink, and it went straight to his head.
Olenna and ensemble:
He had it coming, he had it coming, he only had himself to blame
Olenna and ensemble:
If you'd have been there, if you'd have seen it
I betcha you would have done the same!
I met Joffrey from King's Landing about two months ago, and i told him i had come to love him from afar, we hit it off right away. So, we got betrothed. Then I found out, not only was he mean, oh no, he was a sadist, one of those Schadenfreudes, you know. So at our wedding, right after the pie, my grandmother fixed him a drink. You know, some guys just can't hold their Strangler.
Margaery and ensemble:
He had it coming, he had it coming, he took a flower in its prime
Margaery and ensemble:
And then he used it and he abused it
Margaery and Olenna:
It was a murder but not a crime!
My nephew, Joffrey I had dispised eachother, couldn't bare the sight of eachother. Well, this one night, we're at his wedding feast. The whole country was there, all of us, boozin' and havin' no laughs whatsoever, and he runs out of wine and orders me to fill his cup. Before I can, the pie arrives and I leave his cup on the side. But when I look up, there's Joffrey lay on the floor, dying. Well, I was in such a state of shock, I completely blacked out, I can't remember a thing. It wasn't until later, when I was washing the wine off my hands, I even knew he was dead.
Tyrion and ensemble:
He had it coming, he had it coming, he had it coming all along,
Tyrion and ensemble:
I didn't do it, but if I done it