Sorry if I'm bothering you, but I was wondering if I could use the term sapphic towards myself? I'm biologically female (I think I'm gender fluid though? Maybe nb?) And I'm pan, I'm very new to all of this, so I'm really sorry if my question is dumb, but you seem very nice and understanding, so I was hoping you could help me out?
you can be a girl regardless of agab! but, it has to play into your gender identity. in my experience there are two definitions of pan–attraction to all genders, and attraction to individuals regardless of gender! because you’re pan, if you have some gender-related connection to womanhood, I’d say yes, you’re allowed to consider yourself sapphic. your question wasn’t dumb at all!
I could be def going on a ramble because I’m emo after reading Song of Achilles, but I think Achilles and Patroclus really reflected all the four types of love (if not both, then Patroclous to Achilles for sure)
Eros is obvious. Especially when the boys go up to train with Chiron. The way Patroclus seems to memorize every single detail of Achilles’ laugh or the movement of how his muscles dance while he trains. There is an undeniable attraction from the moment Patroclus first sees him running.
Phileo is the brotherhood that I feel when the two of them are so easy. The silent but resilient mutual agreement to never lie to one another. The whole acceptance of each other’s flaws and the vow to love each other until death.
Agape is the second most obvious. They are constantly sacrificing for each other. Achilles fucking let’s 10 years go by and doesn’t kill Hector and claim that glory that he craves, because he can’t bear the thought of leaving Patroclus behind while death claims Achilles as the fates said it would. Patroclus denies himself any chance of claiming a name for himself; he doesn’t care for it. Achilles is his purpose for living.
Then there’s Storge. It is best defined as love between a parent and child, but it’s really talking of that special bond between family. I read this wiki page quote about how they trade places of student and teacher at the end, but fuck that, I think it’s really more like a mother and child.
Just HEAR ME OUT
Patroclus is always talking about Achilles childish naivety, and that vibrance to him that only children hold. That hope. He tries really hard to shield the harshness of the world around them from Achilles until they’re forced to face it, when they’re swept away into the war. The desperate attempt at salvaging the last of Achilles honor and reputation (maybe redundant) is also very motherly of him. Sacrificing everything so Achilles may not “fail”
Meanwhile, Achilles recognizes Patroclus and all his broken pieces from years of being told he wasn’t good enough. His guilt of taking a boy’s life etcetc. He listens to him and wraps him up in this feeling of it’s okay to be flawed. Reassuring like a mother.
Sighs, all in all….. this book broke my heart. I don’t remember the Iliad very much cuz i read it over 6 years ago in a lit class, and obviously it doesn’t quite follow the myth (altho really not much detail is known beyond their role in the war, i believe). I can’t get over these two. Ever. I also really am disgusted when they’re boiled down to “that gay couple from greek myth”. I mean they are but they’re so much more…….
Not aimed at anyone here, just venting personal stuff because my email is a clusterfuck this morning.
No ‘Susan’, your 'fans’ aren’t attacking you for writing 'hetero-romance’ you’re not being criticized for writing a romance book involving a m/f ship.
What was actually said was 'oh no another bland generic carbon copy of all your previous work involving a m/f pairing, maybe you should try something new?’ and you went off the deep end ranting about 'homosexuals demanding’ you change the way you write and how you were being 'oppressed’ by the gays and wondering why the publishing house dropped you.
And no I won’t edit your next book 'as a favor’, fuck off.
Enjoy your plummeting career, you mediocre homophobic hack.
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