tw meta

I think I know who is going to die in 3B.

I don’t know if anyone has thought of that yet, but I was lying awake in my bed not thinking anything at all but suddenly it hit me like a brick. I could be totally wrong, but in my head it all makes sense, I feel like I found all the answers of the universe and it makes me so mad I haven’t thought of it before because it’s so simple.

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Teen Wolf Theory

I’m sort of new to the fandom, okay? I watched the WHOLE SERIES around the time season 3B premiered (in a marathon-fashion might I add). So, to help myself better understand things that are going on in new episodes, I decided to go back and re-watch season 3A. 

Today’s episode for me was 306, “Motel California”

I was just carrying on like normal while I watched but then a sentence stuck out to me. I was at the part where Scott was attempting to kill himself because he felt guilty over Derek. He felt guilty over people dying. He was not in the right mental state. But then good ole’ Stiles comes in to save the day and says something familiar. 

Scott, listen to me, okay? This isn’t you. This is someone inside your head telling you to do this”

Woah, hold up, where have I heard, “this isn’t you” before? Oh yeah, this promo, where it is said dozens of times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qx1cO33gzs 

I have ultimately come to the conclusion that Stiles tries to commit suicide this season and I’ll explain why. 

By now, we know that there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with Stiles and his mind. Either he’s possessed, or being controlled I can’t say. But we know he was the one who wrote the message that meant Kira and he is aware of that. What else could he do?

 There are several things that catch my attention in the “this isn’t you” clip, but let’s start off with Scott. 

Eerily similar to Stiles’ words in Motel California, Scott says, “This isn’t you” and tries to stop Stiles from going to the mirror. But okay, why? There’s no basis for Scott to stop Stiles in this dream or hallucination or whatever this may be. 

Let’s continue with Lydia. 

She is in obvious distress and cannot scream (something to do with Illuminated, I’m guessing) and tears are streaming down her face. What strikes me is that she looks to be reaching for Stile, meaning that something is terribly wrong. Perhaps she’s not wanting him to do something (parallel to the first scene in Anchors?)

Okay, NOW HERE’S where it get’s interesting…. 

Here we see Allison holding a wolf, to which I guess signifies Isaac. She looks upset and is cradling the wolf, so is Isaac dead? Notice, if you will, that Allison is the only one in the group of friends who is not trying to stop Stiles.

Then we get an AUTOMATIC flash to Stiles looking down at his hands. 

And then we see the Sheriff and guess what he says?

“It was you”

EDIT: And this was recently brought to my attention. 

It looks like Isaac got burned. He is laying on a stretcher. And then we hear “We’regoing to destroy all of them. One by one”

This PROVES that whoever speaking is controlling Stiles and perhaps to kill everyone who was branded with the number 5 in Illuminated. Isaac was the first to be branded so he could be the first to be killed. 

Apparently Stiles goes missing in episode 318, so the summary says. And shall we read the summary for episode 319? “Scott and the others try to prevent a disaster

Ladies and gentleman, I believe whatever going on with Stiles’ mind is going to push him to do something huge. And ultimately, he might try to take his life in perhaps guilt. 

So I noticed something about the Beacon Hills Nemeton, which may ultimately be irrelevant, but bear with me.

Back during Visionary, Gerard and Chris had gone down into the Nemeton and Chris started explaining what it was

Gerard: What is that?

Chris: A Celtic five-fold knot. It’s a druid symbol. …The air’s different in here, do you feel it? I think I know what this place is.

Gerard: Is that blood?

Chris: Sacrificial blood. We’re in a nemeton. It’s a sacred meeting place; Ancient Celtic would usually choose a large, older tree in a grove to represent the center of the world. There’s a belief that cutting or harming the tree in any way would cause serious problems for the surrounding villages.

Gerard: What sort of problems?

Chris: Fires, plagues, strife.

We didn’t see what it looked like above ground until this episode and

it’s

a stump.

6

Let’s take a look at all of this, shall we. First up, Derek goes down. Then, we see a reaction shot of Peter which however you feel about Peter, makes sense. They’re family and it’s hella complicated, but still. Then you see Stiles which could still be decently ambiguous since Derek doesn’t know anyone else there that well. BUT THEN-

We go to a two-shot of Braeden and Derek. Take note we never see her reaction. She doesn’t get a close-up until way later and it’s pretty much only so we can cut to Derek’s wound and the blood on her hand.

Then we cut to the whip-pan to Stiles. I know everyone has pointed out the reaction shot nature of this, but I’m here to point out something even worse about all of it.

Look at the this gif and then look at the one right before it. Derek is clearly not in the same body position, this means that this is a flub in continuity. Guaranteed most people don’t notice these things on a casual watch, but it is a goal to avoid them as much as humanly possible. You only don’t avoid them if the emotion is more important.

This means that once we show Derek being helped, it quickly pans to Stiles who is clearly in close proximity. Ignoring the sterek of it all, it puts Derek and Stiles in very close range because Stiles wants to help Derek, the only thing stopping him is the fact that Braeden is already there. Stiles is even closer than Peter.

Then look at the last gif, it’s Peter. They could’ve cut to this and then the one before it and kept continuity, but instead, they cut to Stiles first. Why? Because his reaction was most important (or they really just enjoy fucking with us).

The shot was completely deliberate, but the editing was even more so. Many many people made decisions so that we all would see Stiles’ reaction to Derek dying and even more so how that connects to Braeden separating them.

TLDR; I can assure you absolutely everyone knew what they were doing when they shot/edited it like this to emphasize the importance of Stiles (and Peter) to Derek

Stiles is something – or how agent McCall totally didn’t kill the chemist!

I’ve been saying Stiles is something for ages and I know the entire Meta Pack is with me on this. We’re not entirely sure what yet but I have a suspicion it has to do with belief

Some have perhaps already seen the promos and previews for next week and knows that Lydia adds Stiles’ name to a list (i suspect the one from her grandma’s code.) That just drives this argument home, and truthfully I didn’t see that until after I had spent a minute shrieking with glee for 10 minutes scaring my coworkers after watching episode 4x08. (Does that make me a BanGlee? Terrible pun I know, moving on).

I know I’ve CSI’d this scene earlier and given a somewhat plausible explanation for which direction the bullet came from and why the bullet didn’t hit Stiles. I still think that could explain – or at least serve as an explanation that Agent can use when writing up his little report - that is what he see and hear him do in the beginning of 4x08.  But I don’t think that is what happened and this episode gave us the final proof!

Now, credit must be given where credit is due, because this is a joint meta pack effort and we have spent a lot of time discussing the shooting scene from 4x07 and we found some strange discrepancies.

Let me present them for you.

  • It is a miracle the bullet didn’t hit stiles. It is possible, but takes a VERY SKILLED MARKSMAN to pull off that shot. And we have no evidence Agent is one. He admits to Scott in 4x08 that he’s only shot and killed someone twice before. Not a lot of experience. The Sheriff probably have more skill than agent McCall. He did shoot the rope holding Deaton remember. AND agent was wearing full hazmat suit which would make it virtually impossible for him to do this with any kind of accuracy. Hardly ideal conditions for a Jack Bauer level shot.
  • The bullet wound in The chemist’s forehead is dead center, like a third eye. If agent made the shot, we’d think he’d aim more to the side to ensure the bullet had a bigger chance of avoiding Stiles.
  • The bullet wound does not look like an exit wound. First of all it is very small and second of all it has gun powder residue around it. Look at the black tinges around the wound. Entry wounds has this, not exit wounds!

  • We see a light go off at the same time as we hear the shot fired (see gif below), but it’s too bright to be from the gun. It lights up the entire room. Stiles is associated with flickering lights…
  • Look at this gif – we clearly see that the chemist’s head whips backwards, then forwards before he slumps to the floor. That indicates that he’s been hit from Stiles’ side and not the back.

  • Add to this Stiles’ bewildered comment to agent when he emerges from Coach’s office : “Where did you come from?” If this was the savior with the gun, wouldn’t he be exclaiming “Thank god you came!”

So based on this the meta pack concluded the shot came from Stiles’ side and we believe it was Stiles who caused it. Take a look at the gif again – he does look scared, but not as scared as he should be. He’s concentrating. Using his power, saving himself.

Okay, and now for what we see in 4x08 that I believe supports this theory.

We get a scene with Agent McCall making his report on the incident. We see him removing the bullets from the gun and putting it in a plastic bag.

This is his gun                                                        

This looks very much like the same type of gun that Braeden shows Derek later in the episode

Okay, not the best screencap, but we see it’s a similar handgun. And more importantly – she even gives us a lecture on it.

Braeden: You’ll like this one. The legal clip size in California is 10, you always will remember how many shots you’ve fired. Running out of bullets can get you killed.

Thanks for that Braeden. Now let’s go back to Agent McTall (snickers)

If the legal clip size is 10 and he’s fired one shot that leaves…. 9 bullets left. But wait a minute – how many bullets are in that bag? Let’s count them shall we.

Well, i’ll be damned! It’s 10 bullets! Agent McCall didn’t fire any bullets - meaning the bullet that hit the chemist must have come from his own gun - remember it was pointed straight at stiles’ head and he was in front of him. Somehow Stiles has the ability to make the gun turn on it’s master so to speak.

Here’s another shot of the bullets if you want to do your own count

Still 10!

You might think that sounds outrageous, but let me quietly remind you of all the other “impossible” things Stiles has managed. And if we do a rewatch there might even be more!

  • stiles streched a handful of mountain ash into a line of several meters
  • stiles managed to hold a paralyzed werewolf afloat in a swimming pool for more than two hours
  • stiles is shit at lacrosse, but managed to score numerous goals during the final game in s2
  • stiles managed to hold up a support beam and a shitload of shaky ground with a simple aluminum bat
  • he managed to overpower ethan - an alpha! - at the creepy motel when he wanted to take a saw to his chest
  • maybe he even saved cora in the ambulance because he believed he could? it was a werewolf infected by mistletoe and he saved her by giving her the kiss of life…!
  • Stiles fixed his jeep without having the first clue how to do it
  • Stiles seem to have extraordinary strength for a human - managed to hold on to the lacrosse stick with one hand while simultaniously studying his crime scene photos - Coach was yanking on the other end using both his hands. And also when holding down the werewolf Brett at Deaton’s he held his own. And also Scott in 3x01 when Derek burned the tattoo…

And now with Stiles added onto a list made by a banshee, i’m thinking things will finally come into light- and yes I use the word light deliberately - He is the light of Beacon Hills according to the MTV Character bio :)

"Everyone has it..."

Okay so again, on anon with teenwolftoday, I had a bit of a revelation. (My Tumblr app won’t let me send things off of anon? Does anyone else have this problem? Anyway…)

We know there was a heavy emphasis on the riddle, “Everyone has one, but no one can lose it.” The answer given is ‘shadow’, as we know. And that made sense in the context.  

However, there is another solution to this riddle. 

The other answer is 'name’. Now any other time, I’d totally dismiss this as them choosing the response that best suits their needs. But which character are we dealing with here? What is the mystery that hangs around Stiles Stilinski? The thing that…hell we don’t even know if Stiles himself can pronounce? The thing that they purposefully showed his doctor withholding while they were in the very room that Stiles would soon be fully possessed? In the very room that he would soon be asked this riddle?

His name. 

But what could this mean? My theory is this: Stiles’ name will play an integral role in him being released from the influence of the nogitsune. 

The first clue was Holland’s quote (which I first thought would mean we were due to be seeing some Mama Stilinski) stating that Stiles saying, “Thanks mom,” was hugely foreshadowing. Now of course there’s also the possibility that she was talking about his saying it to Melissa specifically, but that’s just an entire other story.

Because who, specifically, did the Sheriff say that name came from? His wife’s side of the family. Stiles’ mom. 

What power is there in a name though? Ah that’s what’s interesting. 

See there is a belief in Japanese mythos called “Kotodama”, that states mystical powers dwell in words and names. In essence, this belief assumes that a name can be used in ritual to affect everything around us. The environment we live in, the people in our lives, our bodies, our minds…

And our souls.

“Thanks mom.”

teen wolf has, for the first time since the show started, an equal number of leading female roles as leading male roles. teen wolf is expected to have at least 13 regular or reoccuring POC roles for season 5, two of them lead roles. season 5 will also introduce at least two new queer characters, who may potentially have reoccurring roles, and mason, a queer poc, is definitely a reoccurring role. in season 5, the show has at least five women of color in rotation. their leading role, the title character of the show and the clear leader within each plot, is a man of color.

when asked to get rid of a leading woc, the creator point blank refused and fought for her to continue and have a more prominent role in the show. women in romances for the past season have shown to be both feminine/vulnerable as well as strong/capable in equal measure, and their relationships have strengthened them instead of turning them into any sort of damsel.

there are many things teen wolf is failing at right now, but compared to many of the other shows sharing its target audience, it isn’t falling flat in terms of representation. and while they may be creating new problems as they go, they’re also striving to fix the problems of the past, and doing so successfully in many aspects. 

i think it’s great to criticize the media you consume. that’s how i enjoy it best. but it’s also nice to point out the steps they take to change and the things they’re getting right, to remind yourself why you’re there, why you stay watching.

So I think I figured out season 6.

We already know that Dylan O’Brien has a very busy schedule with filming The Death Cure movie, so Teen Wolf is having to work around that for at least part of the 6th season. And we have this spoiler from Jeff Davis about Stiles in s6:

“You’ll see the story we’ve come up with, but I think it’s going to make everyone pretty happy. And pretty scared, and terrified at the same time.”

We also have stills & a short video clip of Lydia standing by Stiles’ jeep, where she is soon joined by Scott and Malia. She’s standing frozen and looks as though she’s having a ‘banshee premonition’, or at least that she’s very disturbed about something.

And then we have these nuggets of gold from post-finale interviews with Jeff…

…and a few rumors/spoilers from someone who was around for some of the filming.

So basically…

Keep reading

GUYS GUYS making that post made me realize something that is kind of crazy. i know i said that “what if theo was sent by the desert wolf”. but like what if the desert wolf is actually his mother. and his “dead sister” is malia? because malia supposedly died in the “car crash”. and thats what he believes.

thats why we have been shown shots of malia and theo. not because she is attracted to him but because she feels something is off?? suspicious??? because maybe he is actually her brother.

Shirt thoughts

I don’t know if anyone have pointed this out yet, but the shirt Scott wears in the promo for 3x17..

..Looks a lot like the one Stiles will be wearing later this season, if you go by what we’ve seen from BTS. I would even dare to say it’s the same one, maybe?

And this is in Scott’s bedroom. Like, why would Stiles be in Scott’s bed wearing his clothes? 

I don’t have any clever theories about this, maybe after being missing, Stiles shows up at Scott’s house without any clothes (now wouldn’t that be something). Thoughts anyone?

If you need more reference watch this and this 

just throwing out to you that

  • kitsune are also known as ‘coyote of the orient’
  • coyote are said to often deceive humans
  • coyote are trickster figures
  • coyote also fit in the native american myth as the joker, clown and wild card - whereas foxes fit into the same role in the orient
  • coyote are said to be neither good nor evil, yet to be both of them
  • both kitsune and coyote are said to take the form of humans to trick them out of food or out of favors of sexual nature

think twice about malia guys

Ok so, Reyes & Noshiko shared a pretty sweet moment and he says m’embrasser which means “kiss me” in French.

Also, it was their last real moment (kiss) right before he was about to die.

Noshiko said that she called out to her ancestors for a possession by a fox spirit, but the problem is that she wasn’t the one who was possessed it was her love Reyes.

So, what happened? Why was Reyes possessed and not Noshiko?

We see right before she starts summoning her ancestors or whatever they flashback to their last moments together. Was her connection to Reyes the reason he was possessed and not her? Maybe.

Coincidentally all this can be paralleled with what’s happening with Stiles & Lydia.

Stiles & Lydia shared their first kiss right before stiles was about to die (I would also like to point out the similarities between both kisses, the lighting and everything.)

Right before stiles gets into the tub he takes one last look at Lydia.

Looks familiar? This shot was shown right before Noshiko summoned her ancestors. 

Noshiko said it was the sacrifice that brought its power back but why did the nogitsune cling to stiles?

Linden Ashby said in one of his nycc interviews (here start 11:11) that the kiss between stiles & Lydia will have some consequences. Does that mean the kiss between stydia played the same role in stiles’ possession as it did reyes?

And finally we find out that she buried the firefly deep in the roots of the nemeton. Oh, you mean that big ass tree Lydia keeps drawing aka the picture that stiles has framed in his room with a note that says FOR LYDIA?

Notice stiles framed it right side up.

So yeah, that’s my meta lol.

TEEN WOLF TIMELINE

Ignore that video, it was bs.

OKAY SO HERE WE GO (im only gonna cover the important shit):

(* means the date is wrong, but that’s what they gave us anyway)

1976* - Peter Hale born (okay this one is iffy bc it seems like Peter was captain of the basketball team around 87-88 (there’s a trophy between his two trophies with that date) which would make him *ahem* the 11 yr old varsity captain, woohoo)

1977, March - Alexander Argent was bitten (by the Alpha Deucalion??)  and committed suicide

1981 Kali born - putting her at 30 in canon

1982 - Laura Hale born - she would’ve died at 29

1986 - Julia Baccari (Jennifer Blake) born - putting her at 25 in canon

1994 - Stiles, Allison, Cora, and Heather born (Allison turned 17 in the show in 2011, Stiles’ bday is April, meaning he had to be 16 during seasons 1 & 2 to drive)

1995 - Erica Reyes born - putting her 16 in canon, this is probably also when Scott was born.

1996* - Vernon Milton Boyd III born (putting him at 15 in canon…. >_>)

2001 - it’s been heavily implied that Paige’s death/ Deucalion’s blindness occurred 10 years before the present date - which is all 2011 btw

2003 - Claudia Stilinski’s death.

2005 - Hale Family Fire

2011 - ALL THE DEATHS

  • January - Wolf Moon: Scott bitten, Laura dies (Allison’s bday?)
  • February - Peter dies, Kate dies
  • March - the mysterious two moons bc Peter comes back on the Worm Moon, which is in March, but it’s the 4th of the show sooooo, Matt dies
  • April - Jackson dies/undies
  • May-August - Summer months. Derek and pack look for Boyd and Erica. Erica dies somewhere in here. Allison is in France, Scott in summer school. Jackson leaves for London. We can only guess about Lydia and Stiles.
  • September - Season 3 starts with Isaac dealing with Alpha pack, Cora returns, and Darach starts killing people. Heather’s 17th bday. Ennis dies.
  • October - Lunar Eclipse. Kali and Jennifer die. Scott becomes Alpha

2012**** We don’t know, we haven’t gotten this far yet. No one died in 2012. No one. Everyone died in 2011 so far. Unless of course they will be brought back to be killed again in 2012. 

Teen Wolf Promoshoot: Wardrobe colors

With the promoshoots released today of Scott and Derek, fans started commenting on a “switch” of shirts between 3A and 3B. Although the shirts aren’t exactly the same, they have similar colors like you can see right here.

I really don’t think this is a coincidence. 

Notice that red is the color we associate with the alpha status, due to the red eyes of the alphas. Now, on the 3A photoshoot Derek is wearing an almost red shirt, giving away the alpha status. Now on the 3B photoshoot, the red is now on Scott’s shirt, the new alpha in town.

On 3A, Scott was basically an omega. He didn’t belonged to Derek’s pack or any other. He wore black on the photoshoot. Now Derek, the one who lost his alpha status and his pack, the omega that left town, is now wearing black.

I just found it interesting how the colors of their shirts revealed exactly what happened to them on the last 12 episodes and how the roles switched. 

To clear some things up from the recent ~*In Memoriam*~ video that’s confusing everyone:

In the show, it’s still 2011. I have no clue why there are death years for 2012. I brought it up to the TW twitter and got a well and good “bring it up with someone who writes the show,” so welp! Gonna ignore the video on that point because fuck that shit, yo.

  • season 1 started in January 2011, after they got back from winter break (for a point of interest, the Wolf Moon, which 1x01 is named for, is in January)
  • s1 and s2, combined, cover four months. There are four full moons in those two seasons (Wolf Moon, Lunatic, Shape Shifted, Party Guessed)
  • 3A picks up at the start of their Junior year after summer break and again, has two full moons (Chaos Rising, Lunar Ellipse). 
  • Early 3B has two Halloween episodes (Mischief Night and Halloween specifically), so it’s currently October 2011 in the show.

At the time of the fire, Peter was 29, Derek was 19, Laura was 24 (give or take a year for all of them, since I may be a bit off. MATH, MAN). If you’re wondering about Derek’s age, it’s because the fire was 6 years ago, so 2005, and if I’m remembering right, Visionary was given 10 years before 2011, and Derek was 15 during that episode.

In season one when Derek said he and Laura were “at school” during the fire, considering the fire is shown at night + their ages, he likely meant college.

JUST A HEADS UP: WHEN YOU LOOK TO YOUR TOP RIGHT, YOU’RE REMEMBERING SOMETHING YOU’VE ALREADY SEEN/EXPERIENCED

Up and to the Right 
Indicates: Visually Remembered Images (Vr)
If you asked someone to “What color was the first house you lived in?”, this would be the direction their eyes moved in while thinking about the question as they “Visually Remembered” the color of their childhood home.

Up and to the Left 
Indicates: Visually Constructed Images (Vc)
If you asked someone to “Imagine a purple buffalo”, this would be the direction their eyes moved in while thinking about the question as they “Visually Constructed” a purple buffalo in their mind. (source: x)

4

So we think we (Kedreeva and myself) figured it out. Riddled, that is (and kind of everything Stiles/nogitsune related thus far).

First, “Barrow used foxfire created by me to jump the nogitsune inside Stiles.” This wording is very deliberate. What was Derek doing when he figured it all out? He was jumping Roscoe. Giving it a kick start, giving it power. That was a hint. (also the spark thing he did, seriously what is with Derek and Stiles and “spark”??). What they figured out is not that the nogitsune was moved to Stiles during that surge, it’s that it was already in him and was essentially awoken during the surge. And it had to be in him before, seeing as before the electrical surge/foxfire, Stiles left the message for Barrow on the chalkboard.

So, when did the nogitsune enter? I think it was during that very first scene, when Stiles is dreaming and thinks he needs to close the door “so they don’t get in.” (remember the they). The thing is, he didn’t close the door, he opened it wide and went through it… to the Nemeton (remember that, too). I think that’s when the nogitsune entered Stiles’ mind. I think this because later that episode, Stiles has a hallucination about “when is a door not a door?” and when he comes to, there is a page full of the command “Wake up!” Except, he wasn’t sleeping. So who was?

I think it was the nogitsune. Yes I know I said last week that I thought there were three Stiles bc it must’ve been an aware version of him writing on the notebook, but alas new information breeds new epiphanies. I think he might have a dream self, his subconscious, because it wasn’t the conscious version of Stiles that was trying to protect everyone from himself. That was something that wasn’t the nogitsune and wasn’t the Stiles we saw interacting with Scott and his dad. Some part of his brain is actively aware of the intrusion, but it may not be a part of himself that remembers after waking.

But I also think in the classroom, the nogitsune got control of his body, but not his mind, and it was trying to wake up, to take control over Stiles completely. But it didn’t have enough power. So it manipulated Barrow, a master of electricity, to use Kira to jump the power inside of him, to give the nogitsune a kick start. This is what Derek and Kira figured out.

So, now, the “Are you threatening us?” Most people seem to think the “us” referred to Nogitsune + Stiles, but I don’t think so. I think this was a throwback to “don’t let them in.” Multiple entities trying to enter Stiles’ mind.I don’t think Stiles was home at all at that point, and I don’t think the nogitsune would take him into account. He’s just the host, as Mrs. Yukimura referred to him. And remember this post? Young Chris witnessed the Oni obliterating that nogitsune like it was nothing. And then we see shadow!Stiles/nogitsune!Stiles taking out three Oni single-handedly, he never even looked worried. We see him smirk in the face of Mrs. Yukimura and the Oni, totally unafraid. Meaning this nogitsune is different, or has something different than the one before it.

So, option one, the Nemeton (told you not to forget it) has teamed up with the nogitsune. The nogitsune is hopped up on Nemeton juice and whatever consciousness that tree has is working with the dark spirit. Thus, the “us.” Most likely it was Mrs. Yukimura that released the Oni from the Nemeton, but are the Oni a part of the Nemeton, or were they trapped in it? Did she, by pulling that sapling, damage its power enough to release them? Or did they come out to protect it after being damaged? The other option is that there are more nogitsune inside Stiles (think Leviathan!Cas). Multiple nogitsune entered his mind.

Also no one, and I mean no one, will be able to convince me that the brain atrophy on the MRI isn’t a false-positive due to the presence of the dark spirit in Stiles’ mind. And that’s as much for my own sanity as show logistics. This post also mentions lore about how nogitsune possession can present as psychological illness. 

All in all, Ked and I are really worried about Stiles, ok.