ts edit

anonymous asked:

Hi,so I was reading your post about how Team Flash was morally dubious and I have to agree. I feel like Barry isn't sometimes aware of his strength, and when he goes against non-meta villains (Lisa, Len, Hartley), he's so focused on taking them down, he doesn't think about what he's doing. I feel like he's more of a risk of killing someone than say, Cisco or Caitlin, who have the brains to come up with a a plan to kill but not necessarily the strength/speed. What are your thoughts on this?

Ah man, still love that post. I think you mean this one, right?

I think Barry is somewhat aware of his strength, because I don’t think he actually went full-tilt against Lisa, Len, or Hartley. With Lisa, he grabbed her and her gun, but like Len immediately points out, Barry’s not about to actually shoot her. 

With Len, going closer to full-tilt makes more sense because the man has seriously hurt him several times and endangered (or killed) innocent people and Barry wasn’t able to stop it. Len is probably more of a threat than most metas Barry comes across, and yet Barry still hasn’t ever seriously injured him (Len’s own gun crossing with Mick’s is what caused him the most damage). Hartley… well I have a lot of thoughts about how poorly Team Flash treated Hartley, but none of them involve an excessive use of force when Barry was taking him down.

That being said, I do think Barry, in conjunction with the rest of Team Flash, sometimes don’t realize how deadly they are. For instance, with what they did to Atom Smasher (which was horrible for reasons said elsewhere), Barry looked genuinely upset, and I don’t know if we’re supposed to interpret it this way, and I gather that the team didn’t realize that doing what they did was going to kill him. 

When they talked about their plan before hand, it seemed more on the order of overloading his powers to basically shut them down; him dying wasn’t mentioned. That might be because they were callous, or more likely because they didn’t fully realize what was about to happen. (Since they realize as it’s happening that he’s going to die, and actually seem pretty horrified by it):

(It reminds me slightly of the death of Blackout in season 1: the intent wasn’t to kill him, but it happened anyway). 

But for the record, I don’t think the same is true of Sand Demon, because I think Barry knew that his lightning attack would kill him. But that’s also part of why I think Barry isn’t necessarily at greater risk than the others on the team for killing accidentally, or going overboard (except in cases like with Blackout, where their own power is what hurts them, ultimately). Because we see Barry killing deliberately, and we see how he readies himself for it, and pronounces himself as willing to do it (willing/wanting to kill Eobard, same with Zoom). So he knows he has the power to kill, has so much power in fact that he has the capacity to kill some of the strongest beings this planet has encountered. He’s aware of it. And, when he feels it’s necessary in order to preserve innocent life, he’s willing to do it.

And so, how he treats people without as much power and who don’t pose a life-threatening risk seems very at odds with how he treats those who threaten innocent life. And even with someone as ridiculously powerful as Weather Wizard in episode 9, Barry chose to incapacitate rather than kill, even though he’d almost just died himself, and even talked down Patty from killing Mark. Maybe because he’s seen so much death over the past two years (and at his job, and in his childhood) and because he knows what it’s like to kill, both with intent and by accident, he doesn’t want others to have to feel that, and he doesn’t want it to happen unless he doesn’t see another way. 

Though I’m still surprised he went that hard against Sand Demon, but I think he honestly has a somewhat panicked reaction whenever someone he knows is kidnapped or in danger, and that he loses sight of the bigger picture and gets tunnel vision. In that particular scene, Patty’s life was in danger…

But so was “Jay’s” – because Sand Demon had Jay by the throat when Barry first started gunning up to his lightning toss, and Barry didn’t know how else to stop him. 

And I think we’ve seen enough evidence of that from Tony Woodward’s first appearance, taking Iris, and when Mark kidnapped Joe, and when Grodd hurt Joe, and how he flung himself into that black hole after Eddie died. Even getting Cold’s help to transport the metas was because he was terrified to have more blood on his hands and so afraid the metas would hurt his friends if they escaped. Narrow/nearsighted perspective of the situation, but only in hindsight [to him]. And then all the people dying from the black hole. 

So that by season 2 with this new detective (one who wants to join the meta taskforce and is nice to him and working with Joe and probably reminds him a bit of Eddie) getting kidnapped by Sand Demon, Barry is willing to practice a killing move like the lightning toss, and is put in a position where he feels he has to use it in order to save the life of his new ‘friend’. He only goes full-tilt when it’s down to the wire, but he’s willing to because he knows he can’t forgive himself whenever innocent people die and it’s directly or indirectly tied to him. 

(For the record, we see more evidence of this with how he goes to Earth 2 to save Jesse once he sees Harry as part of the team, or doesn’t seem to think twice about giving up his powers when Wally is in danger, or manipulates Cisco in to reopening the breach in order to save Caitlin).

So I think in that case, when people he cares about or even just knows are in danger, that’s when he loses sight of just how much damage he can do, because he’s terrified of having any more blood or harm on his conscience. And that’s when he hurts people and uses more force than he should. That’s also, I think, what allows him to justify to himself some of the things he does, from big things like having killed Sand Demon, to things like locking up particularly dangerous metas in the pipeline, to littler things like taking blood samples from Jax and Henry in 2x04 without consent. Everything he does, he has always justified in the name of helping or saving people.

But I digress.

I don’t think Barry is the person at greatest risk for accidentally killing someone, when it comes to Team Flash, unless someone he loves or cares about is in danger, or innocent lives become at stake and he feels at fault. To be honest, I actually think Cisco is the most dangerous person on Team Flash by a pretty wide margin, including the most likely to go overboard in some way and hurt someone, but not with his powers.

In addition to the post about Team Flash’s morality, I’ve talked about Cisco’s morality a little bit more before (herehere, here), he’s demonstrated a willingness to torture (Hartley in 1x11 or 1x12, however brief it was), is the one to come up with plans and equipment like the one that killed Atom Smasher, was the one to make the cold gun and heat gun and gold gun (especially the cold gun, which he designed to be ready to stop/kill Barry if needed), and is still making a host of other dangers things like ‘the boot’ and more. Between all that and the somewhat glib or flippant perspective he takes of the metas in captivity in the pipeline (if you accept Chronicles of Cisco as canon, which I generally don’t, to be honest, but I think we’re supposed to), and the way he can be manipulated by people he cares about (Eowells, and even Barry)… well, I think Cisco is incredibly dangerous, the most dangerous (even before he started using his meta powers), and the only reason that this flies under the radar is because his moral compass generally points at wanting to help save people and minimize harm, not to mention how deeply he cares about others. 

But I think he seldom realizes how much damage his inventions can potentially do, and is thinking only strategically when he makes them, or only about the science, in some cases. He doesn’t have anything or anyone right now to act as a proper set of checks and balances on him, except himself, and the approval of his friends (but we know he invents things, such as the cold gun, without telling anyone). He worries about he might become ‘evil’ because of his powers, so I think that once he started to realize he had powers, he became a lot more careful and set new boundaries on himself in a lot of ways. But I still think that he’s at the greatest risk of going overboard in some way not using those powers (because we’ve seen him do it before).

So with Barry it’s like… he knows what it’s like to kill, and even to want to kill or want revenge, but he also knows how to stop himself and how to deal with that.

But with Cisco, it’s like… 

tl;dr - Barry is incredibly powerful and dangerous but seems to realize this and doesn’t really go full-tilt around non-metas and people who aren’t threats to innocent lives or people he knows, most of the time. But as soon as someone he cares about is in danger, or as soon as innocent lives are at stake and he blames himself, he seems to lose sight of boundaries. Despite that, I still think Cisco is more likely to accidentally cause loss of life in the way you describe, because he can come up with the plans and the tech to carry it out and doesn’t seem to think twice about these things, at least some of the time.

Hiatus - Summer Vacation ☀

Hello guys! i’m leaving for a week in a very small town for vacation, and while i’m sure there won’t be any wifi, i’m also pretty sure that i will barely have any signal on my phone so i don’t know if i’ll be able to be here at all? anyway i’ll be back in no time by saturday (maybe sooner), and my queue is full so you should’t miss me too much *everybody stares at the camera as if they’re in the office* 

SO see you in a week (if i survive with no internet)

Originally posted by imnotonlyapionne


“It’s human nature to not say everything that’s on your mind at the time you think it. Because we fear saying something that people will laugh at, people will think is dumb. We’re afraid of being embarrassed.”