How was Undyne able to resist dead in the genocide route if monsters can't have determination?
This is actually a misconception. Nothing in the game states that monsters cannot have determination. It’s actually a case where monsters cannot handle determination like humans do.
Here is the the unused lab entry about the amalgamates.
ENTRY NUMBER 17 monsters’ physical forms can’t handle “determination” like humans’ can. with too much determination, our bodies begin to break down. everyone’s melted together…
This information is echoed by what Alphys says to Frisk in the true lab.
From these two, it’s clear that physical matter is required to handle determination, and “monsters’ bodies do not have enough… physical matter” to handle the excessive amounts of determination that humans are capable of. This lines up with the comparison between humans and monsters’ physiology.
Humans have physical forms that allow them to handle high concentrations of determination. Their physical forms make them stronger than monsters. However, monsters must have some physical matter to them if they’re not all magic. Moreover, there are a few instances in game where monsters are said to have determination.
GERSON Undyne? Yeah, she’s a local hero around here. Through grit and determination alone, she fought her way to the top of the Royal Guard.
ASRIEL: With everyone’s power… With everyone’s determination… It’s time for monsters… To finally go free.
UNDYNE: Now, human! Let’s end this, right here, right now. I’ll show you how determined monsters can be! Step forward when you’re ready! Fuhuhuhu!
Undyne is able to resist death because of her determination, similar to how a human’s soul persists after death. But why would she only become Undyne the Undying in the genocide route?
One possible explanation is that in the neutral route, Undyne does not have enough determination to become Undying. While this clearly contradicts the idea that monsters cannot handle excessive amounts of determination, there is one important thing to note in the genocide route: Undyne’s body is “reformed.” Her body literally breaks apart upon death and is recreated to become Undyne the Undying. This is thanks to her determination to save not only the monsters, but the humans as well – “to save Earth.”
On the other hand, in the neutral route, Undyne is only fighting for the monsters in the underground. After losing all her HP, her body melts because she is trying so hard to defy death with her determination – her “will to keep living.” Unfortunately, it’s not enough to reform her body.
So on today’s Snipperclips episode of Game Grumps, Arin bent over & Dan saw Arin’s underwear, asking “Are you wearing cat underwear?” But Arin clarified that he was wearing Monster Hunter undies. A quick google found these, which I’m 99% positive were the ones Arin must’ve been wearing. So if you’re a big ol’ perv who likes to imagine Arin in his undies like I am, welp, here ya go.
(Bonus points if someone gives me art.)
I feel absolutely horrible now that I took the time to think about Monster Kid.
Monster Kid wears brown boots and a striped shirt, thats kinda weird for a monster species with no arms. Kinda strange how they always fall over if that’s how this species is, you don’t see ostriches losing balance and falling on their faces, I wonder what species of monster Monster Kid is or if there are others like them….
(Sees spikes on back, lizard tail, nostrils)
(Sees the lizard Librarian, who has all this, but has arms)
(Sees Alphys, who has all this and yellow scales too, but also has arms…)
…..no species of lizard with no front legs and large hind legs exists.
Monster Kid is a double amputee. That’s why they lose balance and fall all the time and have a black eye and still wear a shirt and boots. They weren’t “made” to not have arms. The tail is small and can’t act as a balance or “third leg”. We just assumed that because of all the different monsters, it was normal they didn’t have arms and laughed at them falling when they ran thinking they were clumsy and over-eager. They weren’t, they are a lizard monster that lost their arms.
Their hero was Undyne, someone who could beat up bad guys, someone who could defend them, someone that had arms and could hold a weapon and fight bad guys, and could fight whoever did this to them, whoever caused them to lose their arms. Just like Gerson was Undyne’s hero,just like how she misguidedly obsessed and tried to watch and help Gerson, Monster Kid does the same for Undyne.
And despite this, this kid, this disabled monster without any arms to protect themselves, who cannot balance well enough to run, faces the bad guy responsible for destroying so many monsters, engages them in a battle, and despite being absolutely terrified, they don’t back down.
They followed you even when you didn’t take the umbrella, even when you show them you can carry an umbrella, then put it back, then come back to them, they still walk through the rain with you. Even when you kill so many, even without any arms, they kneel and let you climb up and stand on their back to help you get on that ledge, even when you are rough with them.
And now they know they can’t defend themselves or do anything to stop you, but they still try anyways to slow you down.
I’ve originally planned to design her armor based off the in-game battle sprite… But then I thought what kind of clothing she trains in, or what her royal guard garb would look like on the usual when she’s not out hunting children. There’s also the matter of all those weapons she has lying about, she’s gotta use SOME of em, right?
The Determination injections reversed the state of “fallen down” for the monsters in the Lab.
Heck even the remains of monsters can be brought back, as seen with Flowey, with Determination and a physical form to anchor to.
And I think I know why.
My body…It feels like it’s splitting apart. Like any instant…I’ll scatter into a million pieces. But… Deep, deep in my soul. There is a burning feeling I can’t describe. A burning feeling that WON’T let me die.
Monster SOUL’s have Determination in them. But unlike humans who have bodies made of physical matter, and whose Determination makes their Souls persist after death…
Monsters use their Soul's Determination to maintain their bodily form.
That’s why even normal monsters like Gerson can live for a millennia without ever “falling down” and why monster Souls don’t last long after the Body is destroyed. Age doesn’t cause “falling down” because the age pool of monsters is at such a wide range going from Snowy’s mom to Shyrin’s sister. When monsters loose Determination it compromises their physical wellbeing.