the fact that heir of winterfell is for sansa kills me

A Game of Thrones - a rant of sorts

You know, I still see hate for Sansa, for what she did in A Game of Thrones, namely tell Cersei that her father was planning on sending her and Arya back to Winterfell. People hate on Sansa so much, because she thought she was “in love” with Joffrey and they think she betrayed her father. And that she essentially was the reason Ned was killed. #whatthefuckguys #comeon

Well, my friends, let me tell you some things here, that other people have probably said before, but I’m bitter so I’ma do it anyway 😂

First and foremost, Sansa was an 11 year old girl, naive and innocent and full of dreams, raised to be a lady, having drilled into her head that she would marry a knight/prince/king/whatever and have babies and all that jazz. If I look back to when I was 11, I still hoped I would actually turn out to be a princess, so hey, I can relate. When she was faced with the possibility of losing all that, without her mother there, she went to the first person who thought would understand - Cersei, who had, until that point, treated her right. In her eyes, she wasn’t betraying Ned, because she didn’t understand the gravity and consequences of what she was doing, because, again, she was and 11 years old with absolutely no clue as to what was happening behind the curtains.

Secondly, let me present a list of the batshit crazy fucked up decisions that my buddy Ned (an Adult™ and Warden of the North, which was kind of a big boy position) made:

1. He went to Cersei and told her he knew about the lineage of her kids. He made the mistake of assuming Cersei was submissive and scared of Robert. Despite evidence of the contrary. *facepalm* (I mean, Littlefinger showed him the amount of spies the queen had, seriously Ned wake the fuck up; he also knew that Robert made no secret of the fact that he still loved Lyanna and had absolutely zero love for Cersei, which should have made him question “hmmm, I wonder if Cersei is bitter about this”)

2. He refused Renly’s help when it was offered. Renly told him he’d give him 100 men, and advised him to take Joffrey from his mother and keep him as a bargaining chip. Which made fucking sense. Renly knew the workings of the court, knew the people and despite not being the rightful heir to the throne (as the younger brother to Robert and Stannis), he made a fair point (I don’t remember for sure if it was Renly who said it, but the point still stands) that Robert himself wasn’t the rightful heir to the Iron Throne, having taken it by force from Mad King Aerys and the Targaryens. Ned was like “nah my dude, this is dishonorable fuck it”

3. He also refused Littlefinger’s plan. Which again, made fucking sense: recognise Joffrey as king, stand as Regent until he came of age, make peace with the Lannisters, wed Sansa to Joffrey, have Cat release Tyrion and preserve the peace. It would have given him time to come up with a different solution. But nooooooo, this was treason. Well, he also fucked up because he trusted fucking Littlefinger jesus h christ.

I mean, I love Ned with all my heart, but damn boi you stupid

Also, let’s not forget something that Catelyn did. “Something”, I say, as if it wasn’t fucking huge: she captured Tyrion, the only proof she had being a dagger that he owned and that was used to try and murder Bran. By capturing Tyrion, she determined Jaime to attack Ned in King’s Landing and kill his men, and then flee to Casterly Rock to Tywin and thus start the march towards Riverrun and essentially start the fucking war. This determined Robb to call his banners and march towards Riverrun as well, in defence of his mother’s House. All because Catelyn felt that someone who wanted to murder someone else would use a weapon that could very easily be traced back to them. IT STUPID.

Ned’s precious honour killed him. And the actions of his wife. Not what Sansa did. So can we all pls lay off her kthxbye

anonymous asked:

Why do people want Jon to be legitimate so bad? It's almost like they're buying into the stigma that being a bastard is bad and something to fix. And like you said, it's as simple as Rhaegar was married, Lyanna betrothed, and polygamy illegal. He's a bastard. And I really doubt Lyanna would be so naive (well her running away in itself is naive but different context imo) as to believe 'marrying' Rhaegar before her gods would somehow be noble or recognized.

Oh man. I have THINGS TO SAY.

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Tywin x Reader...

Imagine your wedding day and night with Tywin Lannister…

((I made the reader a Stark, sorry if you’re sick of reading about them haha, for some reason I just realy like the idea of Robb’s twin…or just an older female Stark between Robb/Sansa marrying Tywin. I’m definitely thinking about making this into a series))

Prequel - http://letsasoiaftogether.tumblr.com/post/144310563466/prequel-to-tywin-x-reader

Next Part - http://letsasoiaftogether.tumblr.com/post/145622876123/tywin-x-starkreader-pt-3

Word Count: 2,238

Warnings: Um, sex related things but not until the end

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defending robb stark

or: annmarie word vomits about robb stark for an obscene amount of time

oftentimes, I see people complaining about Robb Stark for his perceived villainy. “he doesn’t care about his sisters!” “he throws away his entire war effort for some girl!” “he wasn’t being king to protect anyone, he was just doing it for revenge!” “he’s a hypocrite and he treats his mother horribly!” I feel like some of this has come from the show’s portrayal of Robb as an older man with a sixteen year old mentality, who does throw away the war for very little reason and who often does sideline Catelyn (although this is really the writers’ fault). but book!Robb is nothing like this, and I think people need to separate the shows from the books. so, in the interests of length and time, I’m going to look at two of the major reasons why people hate on Robb: his marriage to Jeyne, and his legitimization of Jon. (lots more below the cut lol)

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Robb Stark versus Jon Snow: who's the best King in the North? Oh, wait, it's not a competition

Since Jon was proclaimed King in the North in Game of Thrones, I’ve seen a lot of things on my dashboard. It seems some hate the notion because Sansa is the rightful heir of the North, others just think it doesn’t make sense because Jon was a terrible commander this season, there are those who mock the statement that Jon avenged the Red Wedding because Arya was the one to kill the Freys, some are already comparing Jon to Robb and saying Jon is an improvement, others who are comparing Jon to Robb and saying Jon doesn’t deserve the title and that Robb is a far better leader, and then we have people who are just happy that Jon is king and the Starks finally rule the North once more. Me? I’m someone who doesn’t see things as either black or white.

Jon Snow is my favourite Game of Thrones character (ASoIaF Jon Snow is my favourite fictional character of all time, but here I’m gonna focus on show Jon), but I’m not blinded to his faults and the mistakes he makes. I’ve addressed the Sansa versus Jon issue before, and now I would like to discuss the whole Robb versus Jon question.

Both men were proclaimed King in the North without being entitled to it. Robb because the North wasn’t an independent land and Jon because of the same situation and due to the fact that he’s a bastard (remember that Robb never legitimated Jon in the show).

Not once have I seen people taking into consideration that neither had any “lawful” right to kinghood, for declaring independence would mean rebellion against the lawful state of Westeros. This isn’t something little and secondary; this means that the North wants independence and that those men were considered the best to lead the free North. To me this is extremely important. Why? Because the break with the status quo means a great deal. Yes, the northerners follow the custom of a Stark as their leader (and Jon may not have the Stark name, but he certainly has the Stark blood), but they follow this custom because of what the Starks have always meant, because of what they have come to represent throughout the years. The proclamation of a King in the North after so many years have passed since the conquest is absolutely political.

The execution of Ned Stark is far more to the northerners than the mere death of a beloved person. It shows lack of consideration to the North as a whole, and not only by the Lannisters, but also by the Baratheon brothers. Neither Renly nor Stannis came to Ned’s aid. It wasn’t just a man from the North that was executed, neither just the warden of the North, it was the greatest icon of the North that was executed, a man who represented the North. Dismissing the symbolic power of Ned Stark, Lannisters and Baratheons, each in their own way, created a political problem. It was perfectly sensible for the northern lords to break with the Iron Throne and proclaim Robb their king.

The same goes for Jon’s proclamation. While many of the northern houses were disappointed in some of Robb Stark’s actions and were afraid of the Boltons, thus not aiding House Stark, they were reminded of what the Starks represent after they managed to regain Winterfell. When Lyanna vouches for Jon Snow she is doing so for a great number of reasons. All of her actions are extremely political and strategical, from denying Stannis as her king to proclaiming Jon her king, including her behaviour towards Sansa and Jon when they asked her for help. Lyanna Mormont may be a child, but her actions are carefully considered from her position as ruler.

When Lyanna spoke up for Jon, the North was facing the option of backing up a family that had for many centuries ruled them justly and that proved that was still capable of holding and governing the North, or remain with their heads bent to a rule that mistreated them both with the betrayal that was the Red Wedding and with the appointment of the Boltons, themselves traitors, as wardens of the North. Their previous disappointment and fear were substituted by shame. Choosing Jon as King in the North isn’t saying he is better than Robb, but doing right by a family who had been mistreated by many, including the northerners themselves. Moreover, Jon’s proclamation is done under the White Walkers’ threat, being known that Jon had fought them when he was Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. This cannot be overlooked.

Robb’s greatest mistake was “marrying for love” (which was an absurdly anachronistic and out of character decision of D&D, but I’ve already discussed it before and won’t do it again), but that wasn’t his only mistake as king, nor the only problem he had dealt with. He was great in battle, but outside the battlefield his situation as king was far more turbulent. I know that in the show the northerners ground their refusal to help House Stark by saying all the problems that befell the North were due to Robb’s marrying Talisa, but we not only know that that wasn’t the only problem, as we know that in making sense of the world, people often reduce the blame for all their problems to one single reason.

What about Jon? First, we don’t know Jon as king, we only know Jon as Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. In this position Jon might not have “married for love” and broken alliance vows, but he did something that can be considered far worse: he allowed the wildlings to cross the Wall. As Tormund says, “We didn’t invade. We were invited”. Jon didn’t “merely” broke an agreement with one of his allies, he shook the foundations of the Night’s Watch.

Jon has been an amazing battle commander (the exception being the battle against Ramsay, which was under extraordinary circumstances - yes, more extraordinary than against the White Walkers), but he dealt with a lot of issues with his fellow brothers in black, not only after he became Lord Commander.

Both Robb and Jon struggled in their positions of leadership, coming to tragic ends as King in the North and Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. I agree that the terrible way Robb’s affair with Talisa was built by D&D does make it easier for the audience to find him a worse leader than Jon, but in reality it’s absurd to say that Jon is an improved King in the North, a King in the North 2.0. Jon has just been proclaimed king, there’s no way to evaluate his kingship. Meanwhile, to say that crowning Jon is a disrespect to Robb because Jon did nothing during season six to earn that title, being terrible in command and depending 100% on Sansa’s connections with the Eyre, is an oversimplification of the proclamation of both men as kings.

Neither Robb nor Jon were crowned exclusively because of who they are as individuals. Neither were proclaimed king just because of themselves as singular men, but because of what they represent. They represent the North, its values and singularity, they represent House Stark and, not only its continuity, but the continuity of Ned Stark’s legacy. Jon’s proclamation has yet another symbolic element to it: it is an acknowledgment by the northerner lords of their “betrayal” when they refused to back House Stark up, a house that has always been fair in its rule of the North and a true representative of northern values.

Robb wasn’t made king just because he won battles. He was made king because he stood up for the North. When all of the contenders for the Iron Throne dismissed Ned Stark and the North, he rose to fight for his father, and in so doing, he became a symbol of the North. See what Greatjon Umber declares:

My lords. MY LORDS! Here’s what I say to these two kings. [spits] Renly Baratheon is nothing to me, nor Stannis neither. Why should they rule over me and mine from some flowery seat in the south? What do they know of the Wall or the Wolfswood? Even their gods are wrong. Why shouldn’t we rule ourselves again? It was the dragons we bowed to and now the dragons are dead. [draws his sword and points it to Robb] There sits the only King I mean to bend my knee to: the King in the North! [kneels]

Greatjon proposes a break with the status quo. There is no reason for him to follow men who know nothing about the North. While he respects the tradition of House Stark governing the North, he doesn’t respect the leadership of those who are not northerners. Robb is meant to represent the North. Of course his self is relevant, but it is relevant because of the fact that it embodies the North.

The same goes for Jon’s proclamation:

Jon Snow: The Free Folk, the Northerners and the Knights of the Vale fought together. We fought bravely and we won. My father used to say, “We find our true friends on the battlefield-”

Cley Cerwyn: [stands] The Boltons are defeated. The war is over! Winter has come. If the Maesters are right, it’ll be the coldest one in a thousand years. We should ride home, and wait out the coming storms-

Jon Snow: The war is not over. And I promise you, friend, the true enemy won’t wait out the storm. He brings the storm.

[pause, Lord Cerwyn and Jon sit, the Northern lords begin bickering among themselves again]

Lyanna Mormont: [glances around, then stands and speaks accusingly to Lord Wyman Manderly] Your son was butchered at the Red Wedding, Lord Manderly, but you refused the call. [Manderly looks away, Lyanna turns to Lord Robett Glover] You swore allegiance to House Stark, Lord Glover but in their hour of greatest need, you refused the call. [turns to Lord Cerwyn] And you, Lord Cerwyn. Your father was skinned alive by Ramsay Bolton. Still, you refused the call. But House Mormont remembers. The North remembers! We know no king but the King in the North, whose name is Stark. I don’t care if he’s a bastard. Ned Stark’s blood runs through his veins. He’s my King, from this day until his last day!

Wyman Manderly: Lady Mormont speaks harshly… And truly. My son died for Robb Stark, the Young Wolf. I didn’t think we’d find another King, in my lifetime. [to Jon] I didn’t commit my men to your cause… Because, I didn’t want more Manderlys dying for nothing. But, I was wrong. [points to Jon] Jon Snow avenged the Red Wedding! He is the White Wolf. [draws his sword and kneels to Jon] The King in the North!

Jon wasn’t proclaimed king merely because of his actions in season six. He was crowned because of what he represents, because he embodies the North and because he is a Stark, even if a bastard Stark. Jon even looks like a Stark.

Even though the reconquering of Winterfell was a problematic enterprise, Jon having committed mistakes, it was nonetheless a successful enterprise captained by him. Not for a single moment did he shy away from the fight, trying to rescue his little brother, the lawful heir of Winterfell. This alone was a statement of his commitment to northern values and to House Stark. Besides, as quoted above, Jon himself quotes his father’s words and shows he is guided by them. Moreover, he and the men he managed to gather under his command, not the knights of the Vale, were the first to retake Winterfell, Jon having taken Ramsay down with his own, practically bare, hands. The symbolic power of this cannot be overlooked; the last living son of Ned Stark, representing the true North, took down the last living son of Roose Bolton, who represented the betrayal of the northern values.

We must not forget that Jon makes it clear that the war is far from over. Just like Lyanna Mormont joined Sansa and Jon’s cause due to a threat that needs the right leader to face it, the northern lords find Jon the best person to guide them in such a war. They have all of the reasons given above to believe it, plus the knowledge that Jon was the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, an institution respected by northerners (remember what the Greatjon said?) and whose command is chosen by its own members. Jon is a man prepared for the war to come and a man people will follow.

As I said in another post, as a Jon Snow fan, I’m the first to say that he was all over the place this season and that at first sight it’s pretty nonsensical to believe him a good option for a ruler. But from the northerners point of view, Jon has qualities that make him a pragmatic and politically sound option of a leader. As Lyanna says, “the North remembers! We know no king but the King in the North, whose name is Stark”. Here, “the North remembers” has a different meaning from the one it has in the books. The North remembers the true values of the region, the North remembers that the southerners know nothing about their ways. The King in the North is Stark, even though he is a bastard. Jon is the representation of the North and of House Stark, he proved it.

Wyman Manderly’s words are also important: “I didn’t think we’d find another King, in my lifetime. I didn’t commit my men to your cause… Because, I didn’t want more Manderlys dying for nothing. But, I was wrong”. Manderly states that he didn’t believe there was someone who embodied the North to be its king. He goes on saying “Jon Snow avenged the Red Wedding”. By this, Manderly implies that the Red Wedding was an attack on the North, on the true king, Robb, and that another has come that proved to be worthy of the title of King in the North. Far from saying that Jon is better than Robb, Manderly is saying that Jon avenged the true king, being worthy of the same title.

I must once again make it clear that all of the reasons for Jon’s crowning are due to his embodiment of the North. His actions by themselves are not what speak in his favour, but what his actions represent, as much as Robb’s. If Robb’s proclamation was due to the southerners betrayal of the North, Jon’s is not only due to that, but also because of the northern betrayal of the North. When the very northerners betrayed the North, be it due to their involvement in the Red Wedding or because of their failure in supporting House Stark’s claim, somehow there was a northern who reclaimed the North. Both Robb and Jon had no “lawful” right to kinghood. Kinghood was bestowed upon them by others because they are the North, and by being so they were chosen.

There isn’t a competition between the Kings in the North. One cannot say one is better than the other; we haven’t even seen Jon acting as king. All we can do is try to understand why both men were proclaimed kings, and from where I stand I don’t see how either Robb or Jon is better than the other or is disrespected by the other’s crowning.

A King’s Seed but a Bastard’s Child... (uhhh I’m not sure the name of this accurately resembles this story but i’m going with it)

(( @florenceivy I hope I tagged the right blog, if not I apologize deeply, who asked for a one shot to go along with this gif imagine http://letsasoiaftogether.tumblr.com/post/137085552756/imagine . I know you wanted some smut in here but I couldn’t make it fit with the idea I had. I will be writing a second part that includes the smut though.))

((Word Count: 2087))

Shame. Of course you felt it. How could you not? You had slept with a married man, sure he was the King but he was still promised to another…vows had been shared. If the Queen in the North had been the daughter to anyone besides Lord Walder Frey things might have turned out a lot differently. Well, that is if people had found out your child was the King’s to begin with. As far as anyone knew, your child belonged to the King’s brother, the Bastard of Winterfell Jon snow who had married you in the early weeks of your pregnancy to hide the fact the child was his brother’s.

Love. You felt it for your baby and for your husband, and that night when you laid with Robb Stark you thought you had felt it for him as well. It was a lie though. A childhood crush…fantasy…that you had allowed to go too far. Robb was your friend, just as Theon Greyjoy and Jon Snow were, and he should have stayed that way. You didn’t regret your child, but you regretted making the child with him.

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She remembered her own childish disappointment, the first time she had laid eyes on Eddard Stark. She had pictured him as a younger version of his brother Brandon, but that was wrong. Ned was shorter and plainer of face, and so somber. He spoke courteously enough, but beneath the words she sensed a coolness that was all at odds with Brandon, whose mirths had been as wild as his rages. Even when he took her maidenhood, their love had more of duty to it than of passion. We made Robb that night, though; we made a king together. And after the war, at Winterfell, I had love enough for any woman, once I found the good sweet heart beneath Ned’s solemn face. - Catelyn Stark 

He had the Stark face if not the name: long, solemn, guarded, a face that gave nothing away. Whoever his mother had been, she had left little of herself in her son.- Tyrion Lannister about Jon snow. 

This quote is so important to me, I love how  STARK  Jon is. How similiar he is to Ned not only in personality ( Ned was called the quiet Wolf, Jon called his direwolf “Ghost” because he didnt make a sound) but also in looks.  

(And LOL at the “left little of her self”part oh GRRM you troll, i love ya) 

And dont get me started on the  “we made a king togheter” part, because for me that is such a jon/sansa possibile parallel (them being responsible for the heir of the north, the whole duty before love.). 

Also i love this quote, because people believe that when Jon/D*ny happens and dany dies (she will, i can bet money on this), sansa will be jon second choice, his “consolation price”. But for me Sansa will feel just like her mother at first, she wont be happy to marry her cousin ( ex half brother).  (i also believe sansa is going to have a sweet riunion with tyrion, a romance similiar to dany/drogo, that ends in the same tragic way). 

But you know what my favorite Jon/ Ned parallel is? The fact that when both are dying they are thinking about their tully women. Thats right, Ned in all the books thinks a lot about his sister lyanna and not so much about Catelyn. But when he is dying his last toughts are about his wife: 

“The thought of Cat was as painful as a bed of nettles. He wondered where she was, what she was doing. He wondered whether he would ever see her again.” - Ned Stark.  

And interesting enough Jon almost never thinks about sansa ( not that he hates her), he thinks about Arya all the time ( just like Ned thinks about Lyanna all the time too). But before he dies he (and i was a lot surprised by this) thinks about Sansa,he links her to his Lover Yigritte! Which is more that amazing for me. 

 The Night’s Watch takes no part. He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason. He thought of Robb, with snowflakes melting in his hair. Kill the boy and let the man be born.He thought of Bran, clambering up a tower wall, agile as a monkey. Of Rickon’s breathless laughter. Of Sansa, brushing out Lady’s coat and singing to herself.  You know nothing, Jon Snow.He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird’s nest. I made him a warm cloak of skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell…I want my bride back…I want my bride back…I want my bride back… 

Before someone says anything: 

Of course  the whole Jon quote is about Ar*a .Jon wish to save her from Ramsay but in the same way the whole Ned charapter and quote is about Lyanna and the promise he made to her ( jon and Ar*a relationship for me has so many parallels to the Ned and Lyanna one, I want to write a post about that too). I wanted to be clear about this before someone commented on it. for me arya is the most important person in jon life but that relationship for me is family, is two siblings thinking about oneanother, its jon thinking of home, and arya too. The idea of romantic love between the two is upsetting to me (but hey if you ship them, good for you! I support you and all that) 

Just to say: Ned thinks about his sister Lyanna a lot, not so much of Catelyn. In the same way Jon never (or almost never) thinks about Sansa, but both before dying think about them. I just think its interesting. Or i just love to search for any Cat and Ned parallels to Jon and Sansa. (lets do with both lol).

wxnderstruck  asked:

I loved your Lyanna Mormont prompt! Can u do another one but from someone's pov? Or multiple POVs. Like Tormund or Davos discussing about Jon's relationship with his sister-cousin. And both of them being in denial. Dany can also be involved. Could be set after Jon's lineage is revealed. I kinda want it to be funny. I can't stop imagining the characters' reaction mirroring Edd's reaction to Tormund and Brienne haha.

Sorry for such a late response. I’ve been going down further in my lists and I forgot these once’s existed. So here you go! I hope you enjoy! 

**

Davos has seen many things. From a woman birthing a child made of shadows, a man burning people alive, a giant and a she-wolf leading an army of hawks down upon those meant to kill him. But this, he has never seen something so…difficult

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The Trident Fight: Why We Need to Stop Blaming Little Girls and Start Blaming Irresponsible Adults and the Awful Society They Perpetuate

I feel embarrassed that I feel the need to discuss the Trident scene in a meta at this point in time. It’s been four books and nearly twenty years since George R.R. Martin wrote the damn thing, and yet people still keep bringing this up as not only A defining moment for certain characters, but THE defining moment for certain characters. Especially for Sansa.

This is wrong. The person to be angry at isn’t Sansa or her sister. While both girls can get blamed for this event, Sansa tends to get the bulk of fandom hatred for the events that led to the death of Lady. I want to focus on why this viewpoint is wrong.

It’s just that so many of the mentions of the fight at the Trident between Arya and Joffrey, Sansa’s reaction, and the fallout are so often used to make really bad arguments. And, in fact, the whole instance is just misinterpreted a lot.

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S6, E1: The Red Woman

Title: Has to do with what we learn about Melisandre at the end - many people suspected that “The Red Woman” would either be the new priestess that we’ll see with Tyrion and Varys, OR Lyanna Stark, covered in blood, in the Tower of Joy flashback. Looks like we’ll have to wait a few more episodes to see either of those red ladies.

So, we pan in over the wall, to a very, VERY dead Lord Commander Jon Snow. Is it too much to hope for that his body is still preserved and resurrect-able because of the snow? Probably. Is it too much to hope for that the blood stains kind of look like a dragon and a wolf? Am I reading too much into this? Totally, but who cares.

Season 6, Episode 1 Recap by KeepingUp-WithTheTargaryens

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tishtriya  asked:

I'm new to your Tumblr, so don't know whether you've answered this before. 😅 If Jon hadn't asked to take the black, what do you think Ned would have in store for him? How would that affect the North's prospects in the War of the five kings?

Well, that’s the thing. Ned doesn’t seem to have had any real plans for Jon. In AGOT Catelyn I and Eddard I – the chapters before the arrival of the royal party and right when they get there – Ned doesn’t mention or even think of Jon Snow once.

And as for Jon himself:

“I want to serve in the Night’s Watch, Uncle.”
He had thought on it long and hard, lying abed at night while his brothers slept around him. Robb would someday inherit Winterfell, would command great armies as the Warden of the North. Bran and Rickon would be Robb’s bannermen and rule holdfasts in his name. His sisters Arya and Sansa would marry the heirs of other great houses and go south as mistress of castles of their own. But what place could a bastard hope to earn?

–AGOT, Jon I

So if Ned had vouchsafed any plans to Jon at any time, this is where Jon would have thought of them. The fact that he doesn’t, that he has no idea what his future could be and can only hope to serve in the Night’s Watch, tells us that Ned never gave Jon any help on this subject.

The only thing that gives us any clue is in the Catelyn II chapter, right before Maester Luwin tells Cat and Ned that Jon wants to take the black:

“He and Robb are close,” Ned said. “I had hoped…”

Hoped what? We don’t know, Ned’s cut off here, and it’s not his POV. (And he almost never thinks of Jon afterwards, with no “if only”s except for wishing to talk to him before he dies.) But as a guess – since Ned says that Jon and Robb are close, his hope may have been that Jon would serve as Robb’s adviser and lieutenant, perhaps similar to the way Brandon Snow served Torrhen Stark.

Which isn’t much of a plan, honestly. Maybe Ned also hoped to include a small grant of land and a betrothal arrangement, the sort of thing a responsible father would do for his bastard. (I mean, if you’re going to raise him with your children, why not follow through with all the rest?) But more likely Ned just hadn’t thought of the future at all, as he persistently thought of his children as children even though Robb was 14 and Sansa 11, the ages when betrothals are often made. (See Brandon and Catelyn, betrothed at 14 and 12, respectively. Heck, Rickard Karstark had offered his daughter Alys when she was six and Robb 7 or 8, though nothing came of it.)

(edit: @professional-widow reminds me that Jon later remembered a possibility for himself that Ned might have once considered:

His lord father had once talked about raising new lords and settling them in the abandoned holdfasts as a shield against wildlings. The plan would have required the Watch to yield back a large part of the Gift, but his uncle Benjen believed the Lord Commander could be won around, so long as the new lordlings paid taxes to Castle Black rather than Winterfell. “It is a dream for spring, though,” Lord Eddard had said. “Even the promise of land will not lure men north with a winter coming on.”

If winter had come and gone more quickly and spring had followed in its turn, I might have been chosen to hold one of these towers in my father’s name.

–ASOS, Jon V

However, there’s no saying that this is something Ned actually planned for Jon’s future, especially considering the “dream for spring” means this would be when Jon was in his 20s, and there’s all the years of winter in the meanwhile when Jon would be doing what and living where, I dunno, Ned. But it’s at least an idea of where this grant of land I spoke of above might be located.)

Still, most likely, Ned was living in denial, not wanting to think that Jon might ever be an adult since that might involve telling him about Lyanna, and Rhaegar, and all the heartbreak that would bring. (A lot has been said about how Ned never prepared his children, especially his daughters, for southern politics – but since southern politics killed his father and brother and sister, it’s not surprising that after the Rebellion Ned hid himself away in the north, never wanting to think about the south or of the future.) At any rate, Jon choosing to join the Night’s Watch solved a lot of problems for Ned.

But you ask what if Jon hadn’t decided to take the black.

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Someone Please Explain Jon and Sansa to me?

I read this question all the time. Sometimes put quite rudely. The objection is always the same that it is gross because they were raised as siblings and that sex between cousins is still incest. - insert occasional insult for someone who ships them.

This is my reply….

Marriage of cousins was a political reality for the ruling classes through medieval to fairly recent times. Queen Victoria’s children married their cousins across Europe.

It is the norm in GOT if you look at the characters family trees.

In many parts of the world it is still considered socially acceptable and in some even desirable.

The modern squeemishness with cousins marrying in much of the world is due to our modern understanding of genetics.

As to the characters directly.

It could be argued that Jon was not as close to Sansa as his other siblings - although I think there is plenty of evidence that he was fond of her, even though she was stand offish to him sometimes.

It could be argued that Sansa did not view Jon as a brother. She referred to him as her half brother at every opportunity. Her familial attachment to him is not the same as her attachment to Rob, who is the same age.

Sansa’s mother drilled into Sansa from a young age that Jon was not real family but an unwelcome interloper.

It could be argued that Sansa has always felt about Jon the way a girl might feel about a particularly close cousin. - but not quite, as she thought they shared a father.

What is certainly true is that they have never met as adults. They have also both undergone huge character development and experienced life altering events. They are not the same people that left Winterfell when she was still a child and he was barely a man - no lets face it he was still a naive boy.

I would think that Jon would still have the hardest time adjusting to their new status as cousins - as he was a big brother for 13 years.

But as Aemon said to Jon, and I paraphrase badly “Kill the boy - release the Man” Jon is not the same person he was either.

The truth is the fact that they are cousins raised as half-siblings is the least hurdle to this ship. They both have a strong sense of duty and will do what needs to be done to protect the Stark name. I also think they are both basically good people. If married for political reasons I am sure love and affection would arise.

No the biggest hurdle is either of them feeling romantically about anyone. Sansa has been through so much. How could she ever trust a man again.

Jon has loved and lost - because of honor and duty.

But then here is also the Kernel of why it just might work, why it could even happen organically.

Sansa must marry. It is her only function as a high born lady. If she must, who would she rather marry than one of the very very few men she does trust. Who she knows cares about her and not her status as Lady Stark.

Jon must also marry for duty - marrying for love was Rob’s undoing. Who can he trust. Who already holds a piece of his heart so that giving them more would be less scary.

I think that they will grow closer as they behave as the de-facto Lord and Lady of Winterfell. But will squash any Romantic Notions as icky and wrong because of their shared father.

Once his true parentage is revealed I think that Little Finger will try to depose Jon as the not real heir, wether Sansa wants him to or not. The only way to end this dissent in the North will be for Jon and Sansa to double down on their Stark heritage and marry. Their children will be true heirs in everyones eyes.

Once Jon’s true parentage is revealed what they have begun to feel for each other will not be wrong and they can act on it. They can fall in love.

For my money I would like that to happen after the political marriage, just as it did for Drogo and Dany.

But we each sail our ships they way we want. And after all they aren’t real so no harm no foul.

anonymous asked:

Littlefinger sneaks into Jon’s room to find incriminating evidence to use against him, but has to hide in a closet when Jon returns early to bed an unknown woman. He is horrified when he finally recognizes the woman.

HELLO HELLO do you remember when petyr killed lyssa, he told her “i only love one woman.. your sister” can you do one where karma is a bitch and sansa told him she only loves jon and then push him through the moon door? :D

Decided to kill two prompts with one fic. Kind of.

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anonymous asked:

Prompt- Jon is told about his parents after the long night and Sansa asks him about his claim to the iron throne. Jon thinks Sansa might only want him to be queen when the only thing Sansa want is to be home at Winterfell with Jon (she just asks because she's actually terrified of Jon wanting to be king of the seven kingdoms). Show verse please?

Hope you like it!

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deathpop  asked:

Hiya! Given Ser Shadrich's timely appearance in the Vale, just when Littlefinger's latest plot is about to blossom, do you think Varys could have instructed the Shadrich to seek employment with Littlefinger, perhaps having correctly deduced that it was LF who had taken Sansa?

No, sorry, Ser Shadrich the Mad Mouse isn’t directly employed by Varys; rather he’s just a soldier of fortune looking for Sansa like so many others.

“…You and I share a quest. A little lost sister, is it? With blue eyes and auburn hair?” He laughed again. “You are not the only hunter in the woods. I seek for Sansa Stark as well.”
Brienne kept her face a mask, to hide her dismay. “Who is this Sansa Stark, and why do you seek her?”
“For love, why else?”
She furrowed her brow. “Love?”
“Aye, love of gold. Unlike your good Ser Creighton, I did fight upon the Blackwater, but on the losing side. My ransom ruined me. You know who Varys is, I trust? The eunuch has offered a plump bag of gold for this girl you’ve never heard of.”

–AFFC, Brienne I

If Shadrich were actually Varys’s spy, he’s not likely to be telling everyone about it, is he? (Just consider the man who claimed to be Bloodraven’s spy at Whitewalls and got his throat slit for it, vs his actual spies, the dwarf entertainers who nobody would have suspected.) Also, Varys doesn’t know about Sansa’s connection to Littlefinger, due to the fact that LF made sure Dontos only met her in the godswood, where Varys’s little birds can’t spy. Varys even told Tyrion that he’d found no trace of Sansa, and that his “little birds are silent”.

So for the correct deduction, that’s all on Shadrich, who is a very clever man:

“It is no easy thing to fight with your off hand,” observed the Mad Mouse.
“Bah,” said Ser Creighton Longbough. “As it happens, I fight as well with either hand.”
“Oh, I have no doubt of that.” Ser Shadrich lifted his tankard in salute.

–AFFC, Brienne I

who does his research:

“Pray, who is this knight who travels with your sister? Or did you name him fool?” Ser Shadrich did not wait for her answer, which was good, since she had none. “A certain fool vanished from King’s Landing the night King Joffrey died, a stout fellow with a nose full of broken veins, one Ser Dontos the Red, formerly of Duskendale. I pray your sister and her drunken fool are not mistaken for the Stark girl and Ser Dontos. That could be most unfortunate.”

–AFFC, Brienne I

In Duskendale, Brienne learned all she could about Dontos, but found no useful information. She then considered going to the Vale, where she knew Lysa Arryn ruled, one of Sansa’s few living relatives and someone she thought Sansa might seek safety with. (Brienne also debated going to Brynden Tully at Riverrun.) But then she heard from the dwarf septon about a fool in Maidenpool seeking passage for three across the Narrow Sea, which sent Brienne off on the wild goose chase that ended with her encounter with (and revenge on) Shagwell and the other Brave Companions.

Shadrich, on the other hand, never encountered the dwarf septon and his story. So once he got to Duskendale, he probably went through the same logical progression Brienne did – and dismissed Riverrun, since it was under siege – and came up with the Vale as a place to search for Sansa. He may also have done further research, learning about Petyr Baelish’s connection to the Tully sisters (which was common gossip in the Red Keep as Littlefinger often boasted about it), which would cement his decision to go to the Vale. Shadrich might have even taken ship directly from Duskendale to Gulltown at that point. (Or possibly accompanied another merchant traveling to the Vale as his sworn sword.) And who should he find in Gulltown, but Petyr Baelish, attending a wedding and also hiring hedge knights for extra security. The opportunity to get close to Littlefinger, look for Sansa, and get paid for it? Shadrich must have thought himself the luckiest man in the world.

Now, has Shadrich figured out Littlefinger’s natural daughter Alayne Stone is actually Sansa Stark? Well, he is clever, and from what he’s said so far:

“I was just now telling these good knights what a dutiful daughter I had.”
“Dutiful and beautiful,” said an elegant young knight whose thick blond mane cascaded down well past his shoulders.
“Aye,” said the second knight, a burly fellow with a thick salt-and-pepper beard, a red nose bulbous with broken veins, and gnarled hands as large as hams. “You left out that part, m’lord.”
“I would do the same if she were my daughter,” said the last knight, a short, wiry man with a wry smile, pointed nose, and bristly orange hair. “Particularly around louts like us.”

–AFFC, Alayne II

“A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?” 

–TWOW, Alayne I

…I think the reveal of what Shadrich knows will definitely be in TWOW. But what he’s going to do about it…

ruanstuart asked:

Also, considering Varys stated desire to upset Baelish’s ambitions, and the potential difficulty in squirreling Sansa out of the Vale, might Varys have told Shadrich to kill her if it seemed Baelish might greatly profit from her in some way? I ask this while reading Alayne I and getting a queasy feeling about Shadrich walking silently up behind Sansa without her even hearing him. Of course Shadrich’s attempt won’t succeed, but it could reveal Sansa’s identity much sooner than planned.

Well, 1) like I said, I very much doubt Shadrich is directly working for Varys; 2) the bag of dragons reward is for Sansa alive, not dead; 3) why in the world would Varys want to kill Sansa? She’s the only heir to Winterfell known to be alive, and as Catelyn Tully’s daughter she’s in line for the (attainted) seat of Riverrun too, and perhaps also to Harrenhal through her Whent grandmother. Varys can use that. (So many people could: see the Lannisters, the Tyrells; heck, even Oberyn Martell wanted her in Dorne.) Sure, Littlefinger can use Sansa too, but the secret to upsetting his plots is not to kill Sansa, but to get her away from him. If Varys knew where she was, it really wouldn’t be that hard.

And Shadrich’s stealthiness is much more likely to be used in an attempt to kidnap Sansa rather than to kill her, to take her back to King’s Landing for that “plump bag of gold”. Once he’s certain of her identity, then I’m sure he’ll try to do so. When that will be… might be at the tourney for the Brotherhood of Winged Knights, or it might be later in TWOW. Knowing Sansa’s luck (my poor dear Perils of Pauline girl), it’ll probably be when everything looks set to go with Harry Hardyng. If Shadrich succeeds, well, that’s a way to get her away from Littlefinger (and perhaps bring her into the Varys and Aegon plot, as I’ve speculated and hoped doesn’t happen). And if he fails, then, well, that’s (as you say) a way to reveal her identity sooner than planned, which could make all kinds of trouble… or make things better? maybe? god knows, with Sansa.

But something is definitely going to happen with Shadrich and Sansa. He’s just another one of GRRM’s Chekhov’s guns, just waiting to go off…

anonymous asked:

can you write something with sansa pulling away from jon after they find out the truth about jon's parentage because she thinks he's going to have to marry Daenerys to arrange an alliance? thank you and I'm so excited that you're taking prompts again :)

Thank you! Here it is! (It actually doesn’t have much Jon in it. But I hope you like it anyways).

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