the angel cas

anonymous asked:

Hey, I saw a lot of people being quite positive about Jack. But I still have the feeling that Cas was under his influence from the moment the contact was made. I mean, I still find it weird (amongst other things) that Cas just left the boys behid. Do you think that there is a chance that Castiel won't even remember what happened?

Well, personally I’ve written whole realms of meta on why it is totally in character for Cas to choose to go against the boys when there’s a combination of the fact that he thinks it’s for the greater good and they tell him “just no”, “that ain’t happening” “I’m not going to logic you Im just saying DON’T” etc. Cas is stubborn and when he’s told flat out not to do something but he believes it’s the right thing to do it anyway he always rebels. Like… this is consistent and a core part of his character, that he will rebel to do what he thinks is the right thing!

But yes I HOPE that they address it in season 13, that it was or wasn’t his choice, that he either was still in character and following the other two’s stories of regression to his earlier negative self (hence the paradise/faith talk) then death then emancipation, or… was sock puppeted and the regression thing was only what led up to this moment at the sandbox? 

I mean it kinda works? but also it just doesn’t make any sense to me really given that Cas is like 90% of the way there for his arc from depression/regression to emancipation and omitting the catalystic last 10% doesn’t make sense? Why go there up to 90% and not complete it? 

On top of this is the fact that yes Dean knee-jerk says he’s not himself but Sam looks at him with pity and changes the subject because he just thinks Dean is in denial about his husband’s choice and is upset that Cas left them there like that, then once he’s calmed down Dean totally treats Cas like he IS himself and we move into 12x23 where they totally treat him like he is Cas.

In 12x23 Dean and Sam both talk things through with Cas, Dean thanks him for healing him, they ask him what’s happening and accept his explanations about the other world, they follow Cas into the rift and…. just totally treat him like Cas?! (seriously? if they do think he’s being controlled by the evil devil baby and are totally like ah ok yeah cool we won’t try to un-brainwash you we’ll just follow your lead through the shiny vagina that’s totally not worrisome… yep that sounds like a plan! like…what?). 

Dean also husband-bickers with him the whole time throughout 12x23 instead of trying to snap him out of it like he did when he could see that Mary really wasn’t herself, there’s a clear parallel here and he just treats Cas like he’s a dumbass who is making stupid choices, not like he’s actually controlled by Jack the next time he sees him.

e.g. continuing to bicker and be pissy about his choices: x

and: x

and then just for a fun oops sorry Cas! Angel killing bullets? Awesome! Uhhh….


This for me is NOT a guy who is 100% sure his husband is possessed or sock puppeted and would do anything to save him as he did in 11x18 for example. 

In 12x23 I just feel like this is SO not how Dean would react if he really thought Cas was controlled?!

This is a guy who knows he had a knee jerk reaction that he was so pissed off with Cas’ choice that he said it wasn’t really him and made up an alternative reason that hurt less than feeling like Cas just left him of his own volition (hello post purgatory sublimation) and then had time to think, had an emancipating climactic moment the episode right in between and let a shit ton of his self hatred and internalised issues kind of go or at least start to…

I mean this is basically the definition of sublimation, taking something that is so perceivably bad that you don’t want to deal with and making it more palatable. Dean does this relatively often with people he loves, he’s done it with Sam, John and early on with Mary too (before his arc in season 12 became about really blatantly pointing out the sublimation in order to show him not doing it anymore), making up excuses for their behaviour like Sam during the demon blood arc, reasons why John had to treat him the way he did, Mary hunting etc, but purgatory Cas is the most obvious, where he literally made up a whole alternative story in his head because the reality was too awful.

So yeah I hope it’s addressed but it wouldn’t surprise me if it wasn’t and this discussion is not tied up because…for me it’s kind of blatant that for his story he has to be making this choice himself. 

For me it’s like saying Sam was sock puppeted by Lucifer when he wanted to go to the cage in season 11 because he saw the visions and chose to go there based on these visions and his want to do the right thing for the greater good, that led to all this in the first place and should lead to Sam’s emancipation arc and finally dealing with Lucifer himself. Or that Dean was sock puppeted into taking the mark or sacrificing himself for Sam in season 2, or Sam was sock puppeted into doing everything to save Dean in season 10.

If we take the agency of the choice away then it kind of takes the repercussions of that choice away from the character and their associated character growth therefore can’t happen? Which is the point of these bad choices?

I hope it is addressed either way, I don’t think it makes sense that he long term doesn’t remember what happened, because what happened is important to his arc and he needs to know what happened in order to face the consequences and grow. Either way I’m happy to be wrong if it is shown how it makes sense to the narrative to the contrary, but this is the way that I see it making most sense :)