stannis and davos

anonymous asked:

Why does Stannis trust and likes Davos so much? Yes, Davos saves his life but Stannis is also stubborn and he won't listen to anyone he doesn't trust so how did their friendship grow so much?

Thanks for the question, Anon.

Tagging @poorquentyn as a preliminary matter, since he always has good stuff to add about Stannis and Davos.

I think one of the big defining moments in Stannis and Davos’ relationship was Davos insisting Stannis cut off his fingers himself. Until that moment, Stannis might have seen Davos as a mere smuggler, bringing in fish and onions where he thought he could get the best price (among starving people who would pay whatever Davos said). But when Davos said he would only accept the punishment from Stannis’ own hand, I think Stannis saw him as someone different. Davos was testing him for his sense of justice - if Stannis was ready to execute a sentence as much as he was willing to deliver it. Ordinary smugglers wouldn’t demand that seemingly minor distinction, but Stannis might have started to see Davos as someone who would care that justice was done, and would accept reward and punishment with equal magnanimity - someone who would advise him to the just course.

Additionally, especially in the first years of Robert’s reign (when Stannis was heir in lieu of a son of Robert and Cersei), I’m sure Stannis was surrounded by lordly flatterers. The king’s next younger brother might have seemed a perfect avenue for favor at the royal court, and I bet he was surrounded by lords eager for advancement for themselves and their families (even in ACOK, years later, Stannis still found his lords sycophantic where they weren’t demanding). To be lordly is to be false, Stannis tells Davos in ASOS, and Seaworth might have seemed the very opposite of a grasping lord. Certainly, Stannis might have initially thought he could trust Davos simply for his lack of great name - he had no ambitious family to advance, no natural lordly allies - but as Davos offered him honest counsel with no desire for lands or favors, I think Stannis would have started to trust him more and more.

The Queen Regent (NFriel)

auricoma  asked:

I have trouble sympathizing with most of the characters in ASOIAF, because none of them represent an ideology I can get behind. Starks are better than Boltons, Stannis is better than Cersei, but they are all unelected hereditary authoritarians. When choosing between 1. Hitler, 2. Stalin and 3. Mussolini, I'd reluctantly go with Mussolini, but I'd much rather choose 4. LEAVE THE PLANET. I don't care who wins the game of thrones. The only winning move is not to play.

I totally get that. GRRM had Tyrion muse on the inherent backwardness of democracy for a reason; we’re never supposed to forget how these characters conceive of power. However, I don’t think that’s an appropriate analogy. Hitler became chancellor as a result of parliamentary politics in the wake of his party doing very well in an election, and none of those three can be called “hereditary” rulers. I’m not remotely saying that this makes popular elections a bad thing, just that I don’t think it’s wise to assume that elections will prevent monsters from rising to power. I’d also argue that it was a very, very good thing for Westeros and in particular the smallfolk of the North that Mance, who didn’t rely on heredity in the least to win his crown, got his ass kicked by Stannis, the avatar of hereditary rule. 

I would also push back on the idea that there are no values in Westeros’ social/political model worth defending: “I charge you to be brave, I charge you to be just, I charge you to defend the young and innocent.” Now, of course, The System itself often fails to reflect those values, but we do see individuals live up to them, and that’s an ideology I can get behind. Take Edmure, for example: “My people. They were afraid.” Or Brienne: “No chance, and no choice.” Or Dunk: “a knight who remembered his vows.” Or, perhaps above all, Davos: “a king protects his people, or he is no king at all.” 

And speaking of the onion knight, allow me to make the case for the one true king. He raised a peasant-born smuggler to knighthood and then lordship, consistently included him in his councils specifically to get the perspective of someone outside the nobility, and is prepared to “make new lords” alongside him. He not only rode to the defense of the realm when no other king would, but after defeating the wildlings so as to eliminate the immediate threat to the North, his next move was to welcome them through the Wall, believing it his duty to defend them from the Others. So, yeah, I too am not fond of hereditary monarchy as a system of governance. However, I think people often miss that Stannis possesses some genuinely radical politics, especially for someone in his position and with his background. Davos, of course, had to convince Stannis to sail to the Wall…but Davos was only in the position to do that because Stannis raised him up, and Stannis specifically made Davos his Hand because Davos will tell Stannis what he does not want to hear, but needs to. And this “a king who still cared” side of him is rooted in his empathy for the downtrodden and defenseless: “When I was a lad I found an injured goshawk and nursed her back to health. Proudwing, I named her.” The difference between that on the one hand, and Cersei and Tywin on the other, is significantly more than the difference between Hitler and Mussolini.

Finally, I don’t think “not playing” is actually an option. Every action is political. 

anonymous asked:

Why are you so mean to davos

every Davos chapter:

“I can’t let Stannis down,” Davos thought to himself after fucking everything up yet again due to his abject lack of charisma or likability. He found himself reaching for his pouch o’ finger-bones, only to remember that he lost them when he fucked up during the Battle of the Blackwater. That reminded him of his many dead sons, which made him very sad, though he did not forget his duty. He never forgot his duty to Stannis, who had spared his life. “I must never forget that Stannis spared my life,” Davos thought, clenching what remained of the fingers on his left hand. Stannis had removed the first joint of the fingers on his left hand as punishment for his crimes as a smuggler. Stannis was a hard man, but just. He reached for his pouch o’ finger-bones, only to remember that he lost them. He missed the bones that he kept in a pouch around his neck. They were his luck, and now he had no luck. “Even without my luck, I must not let Stannis down. He could have taken more than the first joints of my left hand, yet he gave me a lordship,” Davos thought. Even though he earned a lordship, four of his sons would never know about it, as they died on the Blackwater, where Davos lost his pouch o’ finger-bones, which he considered his luck. Davos took a moment to remember his dead sons. “I miss my dead sons,” Davos thought. “Perhaps they would have fared better if they had my luck. Though I lost my luck on the Blackwater. Even then, I must not let Stannis down.” Instinctively, Davos reached for his pouch o’ finger-bones, which he considered his luck.

cynicalclassicist  asked:

This claim the Tyrells stand for good government? Don't agree. Willas and Garlan are decent but Mace is an awful person, supporting two horrible usurping regimes out of greed. The Tyrells are still keeping the villainous Lannisters, who sacked the Riverlands and reward the Red Wedding, in place. And Mace engages in the same cronyism as the Lannisters, trying to fill the Small Council with his men. The Tyrells are not representative of good government, Stannis is. Agree?

Agreed. Mace is unquestionably an improvement on Tywin, but it’s one of degree, not kind. All Renly offered the realm was swapping out corruption to the benefit of Casterly Rock for corruption to the benefit of Highgarden. Of course, I’d argue that the High Sparrow is nearly as bad, just in a different way. You want leaders who really will sort out the “swollen, bloated, foul” government of King’s Landing? You need Stannis and Davos. “Then we will make new lords.” 

Okay, but now I want a modern au where a teenage Stannis and an early twenties Robert raising lil baby Renly…a crackish, sitcom-y, Baratheon Bros hijinks and weirdness fic. 

Give me coupon-hoarder!Stannis and fratboy!Robert with little Renly learning the wrong lessons from each of his brothers. ( “You can’t talk to people like that; just because Stannis doesn’t have a personality doesn’t mean you don’t” “Renly, you have to wear clothes even if Robert doesn’t”). 

Give me Stannis who goes to all the Parent-Teacher conferences and Robert who becomes the Sports Parent for Renly’s little league games. 

Give me Robert trying to teach Renly math and once he leaves Stannis coming in and saying “Forget everything that idiot said for the past twenty minutes, this is how you really do it.”

Give me Godfather Eddard Stark ( “Renly already has a godfather, Robert. You can’t make Stark his godfather just because he’s your best friend.” “You know what, Stannis, shut the fuck up. Renly, meet godfather Neddy”) Give me godfather Eddard Stark who really doesn’t want to be involved in any of this nonsense but knows letting Stannis and Robert go at it alone will just be more damaging to the child.

Give me friendly neighbor!Davos who helps out the Baratheons when they are in a pinch for money or bakes cookies for Renly on weekends and Stannis knowing there is something weird about how a twenty year old can afford all this extra spending…

Give me Robert taking on a political career just to get back at that ass-face Targaryen and give me Robert using Renly for political gain, taking him to events and showing off his family side with Renly ( “Not you, Stannis, you don’t look right in photos” “It’s cuz he doesn’t smileeee!”)

Give me mother figure Stannis and father figure Robert just trying to get by while taking care of a six year old. That’s all I want.

Give me stupid Baratheon Bros love without one of them dying.


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