spn 5.13

anonymous asked:

I saw your comment to the other anon. I don’t see it as a boner scene. Dean was questioning how Cas got out of Purgatory, discussing this with Sam. Then Cas walks in while their talking about him, and Dean gets shifty and uncomfortable, because he didn’t want to be overheard. It’s the same expression that Dean had when he put itching powder in Sam’s underwear... he almost gets caught when Sam suddenly walks out of the bathroom.

Hi there! It’s taken me a while to reply because I wanted to gather comparison gifs and cover everything you’ve said here, for the sake of clarity and completeness. So. Regarding this post. Or maybe even this one. I had several similar anons yesterday. :)

I think you might be one of the very few people in the universe who look at this:

And not think he’s having some sort of pants-related situation here… For reference, this is the scene I was talking about in 1.03 (thank you canonspngifs for actually having a gif of this!):

Not to mention the fact that THE CAMERA ITSELF is telling us, subconsciously, how to “read” the scene in 8.07. We start at Cas’s feet as he enters the room, and the camera (which is “Dean’s gaze” in this instance because it’s HIS reaction to Cas the camera gave the most attention to) slowly pans up Cas’s body exactly the way it stereotypically does to a beautiful woman making this sort of entrance. It’s referred to as the “male gaze” and I’ve got MULTIPLE posts on my blog dating back YEARS about this bit of film shorthand. (x)

THIS RIGHT HERE IS A ROMANTIC TROPE IN ITSELF. Think about a movie where the woman descends a flight of stairs to meet her date. The camera ALWAYS slowly pans up her body this way, as the date’s POV reaction– HIS GAZE ON HER– and this sort of shot is NEVER NOT AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ATTRACTION.

Supernatural has played with this exact sort of shot before… in 3.04– with Dean in Castiel’s position and BELA in Dean’s position: (x)

Immediately after this, Bela admires him, suggests they have “angry sex,” and Dean replies by acting all awkward and telling her not to objectify him… so… the show itself is telling us what this shot is about. It’s objectifying him. Just like he does with Cas in the boner scene. Just like he did with Wendy the waitress in the booty shorts, who he pointed at and called “fun.”

But the scene in 1.17? When he was nearly caught tampering with Sam’s clothes? PUTTING ITCHING POWDER IN THEM?! It was a humor beat and he over-acted being like “shit I shouldn’t be here, he’ll know I did something to his trousers.” Here’s a gif of his reaction face, his “trying way too hard to play innocent” face: (x)

That gifset I pulled this from is linked at the x above this gif. Go look at it in context. Dean never leers at his brother’s body. By the time the camera does the slow pan down Sam’s body as he goes to put on his clothes, DEAN ISN’T EVEN IN THE ROOM ANYMORE. The shot down Sam’s body isn’t informing someone in-story’s pov of Sam, it’s literally fanservice for the tv viewer.

Dean looks guilty, because half a second before he turned around and made this face, he was dumping itching powder in Sam’s jeans.

And I don’t see ANYTHING remotely similar between Dean’s facial expression here to the one in 8.07. Or to the one in 1.03. The context of the entire scene is completely different.

In fact, his body language here is far more similar to this scene in 3.04:

or this scene in 4.06 (for comparison, it’s a male deputy he thinks is awesome here):

You can’t just match up “dean is flustered” with anything and make it prove the conclusion without context.

Because we KNOW how Dean reacts to a PLATONIC FRIEND doing the whole MONTAGE! courtesy of Charlie in 8.20. Here, have a convenient compare/contrast gif post:


I also saw a gif set going around in the last week or so that was so unsettling I didn’t reblog it, but now I kinda wish I had… It took the scenes from Charlie’s “montage” there in that previous link, and replaced Dean’s platonic thumbs-up reaction with how he reacted to Cas in 8.07… and it’s just like NO, NO NO NOPITY NOPE NO.

But you want Dean being flustered in front of someone he has canonically had sex with? Okay, please have this from 5.13, where Dean was enjoying a dream about strippers that Anna barged in on. He goes from aroused to surprised to embarrassed in about 2 seconds flat:

His reaction to Sam almost catching him mid-prank in 1.17 is FAR more similar to other times he’s been caught wrong-footed. Like in 7x06 and pretending he doesn’t know Bobby to Frank. Goofy scenes, mostly. And ones that aren’t sexually charged. it’s Jensen’s deliberately over-acting comedy face. All it’s missing is the “Comedy Elbows.”

Originally posted by sensitivehandsomeactionman

I think this post is long enough now… >.>


Same, Cas. Same.

Lizbob was laughing at me earlier because I’m in the middle of this seemingly long stretch of episodes that involve Major Fandom Disagreements. And this is one of them. Because of this ^^


Keep reading

anonymous asked:

I'm new to SPN and a friend turned me onto your wonderful blog. We were talking about the early seasons and imagining what characters whom we meet later on in the series were doing in their lives at the same timeframe before we meet them. For example, after John died and went to Hell, at what point do you think Heaven jumpstarted their paradise plan? Meaning parallel to what early season episodes do you think Castiel's garrison got the orders to rescue Dean from Hell instead of John?

Hi there! And WHEEE! Welcome! Glad to have you here! :)

I was almost positive I’d made a post at some point in the past laying out the timeline for all this sort of “pre-Canon” stuff, but I think I’m just conflating maybe 15 or 20 different posts I’ve made over the years into one giant lumpy mountain of how I understand the events leading up to the series, and have never actually typed it out this way specifically, so I’m gonna go ahead and give it a shot.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but this is gonna be An Undertaking, so here goes:

I think Heaven “jumpstarted their Paradise plan” LONG before John died and went to hell in 1.22. I mean… LOOOOOOONG before…

Granted, that’s all established through revelations made in later seasons, but it all works retroactively. I mean, even the revelations made up through s12 about Mary, revelations we got during the MoC era in s9 and s10, revelations about Chuck and Amara in s11… they all serve to stretch the root causes of the entire Apocalypse back to the beginnings of Creation.

I guess that’s taking it back a little too far for the purposes of your question, but it does serve as a barometer for just how vast the scope of these events really is in-universe. Let me try and scale it back to the Apocalypse itself, since that’s specifically what you’re asking about here.

We learn in the early seasons that the demons “have plans” for Sam. Vague, ominous plans.

We learn in s3 that they had plans for Dean, as well… sending him to Hell. Throughout s4 we learn bits and pieces of what the demons’ larger plans entail– that they intend to break Lucifer out of his cage. We also begin to learn that while many angels believe they’re working to STOP Lucifer from getting free, other angels WANT Lucifer to be freed (Uriel, Zachariah, et. al.). Then at the end of s4, oopsie, Sam accidentally breaks Lucifer out while believing he was doing the one thing that would PREVENT Lucifer from breaking out…

Enter the True Vessel storyline… because this is where we begin to understand just how far back the scheming of Heaven and Hell goes. GENERATIONS back from Sam, Dean, and John Winchester.

From 5.01:

Zachariah: What, you thought you could actually kill Lucifer? You simpering wad of insecurity and self-loathing? No. You’re just a human, Dean. And not much of one.
Dean: What do you mean, I’m the sword?
Zachariah: You’re Michael’s weapon. Or, rather, his… receptacle.
Dean: I’m a vessel?
Zachariah: You’re the vessel. Michael’s vessel.
Dean: How? Why—why me?
Zachariah: Because you’re chosen! It’s a great honor, Dean.
Dean: Oh, yeah. Yeah, life as an angel condom. That’s real fun. I think I’ll pass, thanks.

From 5.03:

Lucifer: Sam. My heart breaks for you. The weight on your shoulders, what you’ve done, what you still have to do. It is more than anyone could bear. If there was some other way… but there isn’t. I will never lie to you. I will never trick you. But you will say yes to me.
|Sam: You’re wrong.
Lucifer: I’m not. I think I know you better than you know yourself.
Sam: Why me?
Lucifer: Because it had to be you, Sam. It always had to be you.

They’re both “chosen.” Which leads one to believe that no matter what Alistair told Dean in 4.16 about John having been tortured and never breaking in Hell– that DEAN breaking in Hell was what “broke the first seal”– was ALWAYS the plan, from long before John sold his soul for Dean. It makes John’s deal just one more push for Dean to make the same deal for Sam at the end of s2.

Sort of reminiscent of what Zachariah told Adam in 5.18:

ZACHARIAH: Hey, don’t get me wrong. You’ve been a hell of a sport, really. Good stuff. But the thing is, you’re not so much the “chosen one” as you are…a clammy scrap of bait.
ADAM: No…but what about the stuff that you said? I’m supposed to fight the devil.
ZACHARIAH: Mmm, not so much. Hey, if it’s any consolation, you happen to be the illegitimate half-brother of the guy we do care about. That’s not bad, is it?
ADAM: So you lied…about everything.
ZACHARIAH: We didn’t lie. We just avoided certain truths to manipulate you.

(and can I tell you HOW USEFUL this one simple exchange is on a meta level? how many times the show has used this exact device in order to fill in blanks and expand past canon? because they use it A LOT)

So in this metaphor, John is in Adam’s position here… he was the clammy scrap of bait, the object lesson and role model for Dean (i.e. the guy they do care about).

We also get a good bit of exposition on this from Gabriel in 5.08:

GABRIEL: You do not know my family. What you guys call the apocalypse, I used to call Sunday dinner. That’s why there’s no stopping this, because this isn’t about a war. It’s about two brothers that loved each other and betrayed each other. You’d think you’d be able to relate.
SAM: What are you talking about?
GABRIEL: You sorry sons of bitches. Why do you think you two are the vessels? Think about it. Michael, the big brother, loyal to an absent father, and Lucifer, the little brother, rebellious of Daddy’s plan. You were born to this, boys. It’s your destiny! It was always you! As it is in heaven, so it must be on earth. One brother has to kill the other.
DEAN: What the hell are you saying?
GABRIEL: Why do you think I’ve always taken such an interest in you? Because from the moment Dad flipped on the lights around here, we knew it was all gonna end with you. Always.

They always knew it was gonna end with Sam and Dean Winchester.

Hence what the cupid told them in 5.14:

Cupid: Oh, mostly they don’t. You know, certain bloodlines, certain destinies. Oh, like yours.
Sam: What?
Cupid: Yeah, the union of John and Mary Winchester–Very big deal upstairs, top priority arrangement. Mm.
Dean: Are you saying that you fixed-up our parents?
Cupid: Well, not me, but… Yeah. Well, it wasn’t easy, either. Ooh, they couldn’t stand each other at first. But when we were done with them–Perfect couple.
Dean: Perfect?
Cupid: Yeah.
Dean: They’re dead!
Cupid: I’m sorry, but… the orders were very clear. You and Sam needed to be born. Your parents were just, uh…meant to be. A match made in Heaven- Heaven!

Sam and Dean needed to be born, their parents needed to meet and fall in love. How many generations of their family had been set up by cupids in order to bring about this “destiny?” Because Michael gives some pretty chilling context on that one in 5.13:

DEAN: How’d you get in my dad, anyway?
MICHAEL: I told him I could save his wife, and he said yes.
DEAN: I guess they oversold me being your one and only vessel.
MICHAEL: You’re my true vessel but not my only one.
DEAN: What is that supposed to mean?
MICHAEL: It’s a bloodline.
DEAN: A bloodline?
MICHAEL: Stretching back to Cain and Abel. It’s in your blood, your father’s blood, your family’s blood.

and after Michael and Dean debate about the nature of Destiny versus Free Will (guess which side of the argument Dean defends? And which side Michael inflexibly sticks to? Yeah… there’s reasons Dean will never say yes to him…):

MICHAEL: Think of a million random acts of chance that let John and Mary be born, to meet, to fall in love, to have the two of you. Think of the million random choices that you make, and yet how each and every one of them brings you closer to your destiny. Do you know why that is? Because it’s not random. It’s not chance. It’s a plan that is playing itself out perfectly. Free will’s an illusion, Dean. That’s why you’re going to say yes.

(reminder: Dean never said yes. Granted he almost did a few times, but Cas stopped him once and Sam stopped him the other time, so… that’s where free will conquered destiny)

(second reminder, this is also the episode that coined the phrase “Team Free Will,” which has recently become so important again toward the end of s12…)

So, yeah. In the context of the apocalypse, John had been a pawn in the machinations of Heaven and Hell, just as much as Mary had been. Just as much as Sam and Dean and Cas were… but it was all because they were all playing their roles in the “destiny” set out for them at the beginning of creation.

So, yeah… I think the plans were in place long before John made that deal in 1.22. The angels never had a plan to rescue John. He may have been adjacent to the guy they needed to Do The Thing, but he was definitely not the guy they needed to Do The Thing. Just like Adam serving as Michael’s vessel in 5.18 (BAIT!), and just like John having served as Michael’s vessel in 5.13 (LURE!).

I made a much shorter post recently *searches own blog for 20 minutes getting detoured down four blind alleys and a rabbit hole* that sort of touches on this as well that might be of interest to this discussion:


I hope this helps! And I also feel like this post serves as an object lesson in understanding how all “retcons” aren’t terrible. Some retcons improve past canon to vast degrees. Because technically ALL of this is one huge retcon. And it’s beautiful! :P

ETA: This doesn’t even touch on the stuff we learned in s8, specifically 8.12 about Henry Winchester, how he disappeared from John’s life when he was a child, how Abaddon had nearly derailed these plans for the Apocalypse by messing with the fate of the True Vessels… how the Winchesters AND Campbells were always Men of Letters or Hunters, how they’d all had this long history of dealing with the supernatural, how they’d jumped through time on multiple occasions to interfere with the supernatural… I swear it all makes sense in my head, how this all connects up into a vast timeline stretching from Chuck locking Amara away at the beginning of creation, the choices made by Michael and Lucifer dealing with the earliest humans– and the choices made by Cain and Abel that set their family irrevocably on this path… How generations of their family had been manipulated or coerced into “playing their roles” to bring them all up to that moment when Dean broke the first seal in hell and Sam broke the last seal on Lucifer’s cage, and how they were then able to take that destiny and rip up the ending with the help of a fallen angel and an old drunk. :’) that’s honestly why I keep watching this show.

5.13: Angels are watching over you…

Anna gatecrashes Dean’s dream. Awkward. Tries to plant suspicion of Cas, but Dean… trusts Cas and tells him everything.

Anna wants to stop the apocalypse by killing him in such a way that he could never be resurrected, but Cas insists they “Find another way.” And then reports back to Sam and Dean (who ask if Anna has a point here), but Cas is clearly already 100% on Team Winchester. He can see that yes, Anna does have a point, but he’s more ready to sacrifice Anna– an angel he’s known and been close with for MILLIONS OF YEARS– than Sam.

If Anna can’t get to Sam in the present because Cas is protecting him, she decides to try going to the past, to kill Mary before Sam can even be born.

(Sam experiences his first Angel Booping)

(Dean puts Cas up in the Honeymoon Suite for five nights with a Do Not Disturb Under Any Circumstances order… like did the desk clerk dude think Dean was gonna be up there with him?)

MARY: I don’t do that anymore. I have a normal life now. You have to go.
MARY moves to close the door. DEAN holds an arm out to stop her.
DEAN: I’m sorry, but this is important, okay?

(surrrrre Mary. You don’t do that anymore)

Mary has let John believe that Samuel died of a “heart attack.” I wonder how she explained how her mother died the same night? Either way, it’s interesting that it’s JOHN who really wants Sam and Dean to stay for dinner, because he hasn’t met much of Mary’s side of the family. Which further proves that it was John with the notions of family that have formed the basis for Dean’s definition of what family is.

Mary picks up an angel blade for the first time, and John has his first encounter with the Supernatural, prefacing the Most Awkward Family Road Trip ever.

Poor John trying to pretend that all of this is just fiiiiine, that learning that angels and demons are real and your wife and her entire family have been monster hunters going back generations and this is the first you’re hearing about it is just another Tuesday… And just defiantly accepting all of this and making himself useful. Maybe next time don’t just angrily draw the knife across your own palm like that. There’s a reason Sam and Dean usually cut their forearm instead of their hand… best not to have injured hands if you’re gonna be in a fight situation, you know?

(as a Marine he really should’ve know that already…)

(still, for grumpy defiance while still cooperating with this huge pile of insanity that was just dumped on him like this, I’d say he was doing pretty well for himself okay)

(enough for Dean to comment that this version of John really reminds him of his dad… >.>)

SAM: Uh…I wanted to say I—I’m sorry about all this. I—I know it’s a lot.
JOHN: Look, how long have you known about this…hunting stuff?
SAM: Pretty much forever. My dad raised me in it.
JOHN: You’re serious? Who the hell does that to a kid?
SAM: Well, I mean, for the record, Mary’s parents did.
JOHN: I don’t care. You know, what kind of irresponsible bastard lets a child anywhere near—Y-you know, you could’ve been killed!

(without knowing it, John judges his future self really harshly…)

SAM: I used to be mad at him. I—I mean, I used to… I used to hate the guy. But now I—I… I get it. He was…just doing the best he could. And he was trying to keep it together in—in—in this impossible situation. See… My mom, um… She was amazing, beautiful, and she was the love of his life. And she got killed. And…I think he would have gone crazy if he didn’t do something. Truth is, um, my dad died before I got to tell him that I understand why he did what he did. And I forgive him for what it did to us. I do. And I just—I love him.

Meanwhile, Anna calls down Uriel and LIES TO HIS FACE:

ANNA: In the future, these people are going to kill you, Uriel. I’m giving you the chance to kill them first.

(heeey who killed Uriel, Anna? Oh, right. YOU DID.)

Dean has his first “convince Mary he’s who he says he is” moment, just like the one in 12.01… 

MARY: I raised my kids to be hunters?
DEAN: No. No, you didn’t.
MARY: How could I do that to you?
DEAN: You didn’t do it. Because you’re dead.

And it seems that’s the WORST thing she can imagine. Not that she dies, not that John becomes a hunter too, but that her kids grow up to hunt themselves.

SAM: Listen, you think you can have that normal life that you want so bad, but you can’t. I’m sorry. It’s all gonna go rotten. You are gonna die, and your children will be cursed.
MARY: There—there has to be a way.

And Dean only gets one second to realize that there’s two of him in that room, because Mary’s already pregnant with him… before Uriel shows up to kill them. But then Michael shows up to save them. Because apparently despite Anna’s orders from Heaven, Michael still wants this Apocalypse to happen. Not just to kill Sam so Lucifer can’t have his vessel, but he really WANTS the whole thing to go down as planned.

DEAN: Oh, I get it. You got beef with your brother. Well, get some therapy, pal. Don’t take it out on my planet!
MICHAEL: You’re wrong. Lucifer defied our father, and he betrayed me. But still…I don’t want this any more than you would want to kill Sam.
MICHAEL turns away.
MICHAEL: You know, my brother, I practically raised him. I took care of him in a way most people could never understand, and I still love him.
MICHAEL turns back.
MICHAEL: But I am going to kill him because it is right and I have to.
DEAN: Oh, because God says so?
MICHAEL: Yes. From the beginning, he knew this was how it was going to end.
DEAN: And you’re just gonna do whatever God says.
MICHAEL: Yes, because I am a good son.

And this conversation right here is EXACTLY why I give zero fucks about Lucifer suddenly being labeled as “the older brother.” Well, this in combination with everything else we’ve ever learned about archangels going all the way back to 4.18 and Cas’s warning to Dean, that “archangels are fierce. They’re absolute. They’re heaven’s most terrifying weapon.” They’re also sort of the antithesis of Free Will.

Michael’s loyalty, Lucifer’s rebellion. Raphael’s s6 insistence of restarting the apocalypse… (sure Gabriel broke the mold a bit, mainly because he’d always been stuck in the middle between Michael’s loyalty and Lucifer’s rebellion, but he was the biggest proponent of “Play Your Roles” in the history of the show. Gabriel was always the one trying to just get the whole apocalypse over with. Because he always knew how it was intended to end– one of his brothers would have to kill the other.

Exactly the way Lucifer convinced Cain that he must kill his brother.

Exactly the way Cain tried to convince Dean that he would have to kill his brother.


From the moment Chuck entrusted Lucifer with the Mark of Cain and locked away the Darkness, THIS BECAME THE SCRIPT. This literally became the story God was writing, and to the archangels that meant that this became their reality. This became their roles, and Michael and Lucifer both played their roles.

But EVERYTHING about them playing their roles came down to Dean Winchester saying NO to this, to denying God’s plan for him. Just as much as Castiel has always been a spanner in the works for Heaven, Dean has been the same for Humanity. And they’ve both been there for each other to help defy God’s Plan, to unravel the script and rewrite it over and over again.

In doing so, Dean broke free from his destiny, from the script to be nothing more than another iteration of the old script. Taking on the Mark of Cain and overturning THAT part of his “destiny” and his family’s legacy was just the next step (and he couldn’t have done that part on his own… he still needed Sam to step up and say NO, along with Cas).

After the Darkness was free, Sam almost gave in to take on that destiny for himself (taking on the Mark himself, thereby starting the whole cycle over again but with Lucifer in the role of the “first son,” since Lucifer was on the scene and NOT being offered the responsibility of taking on the Mark again… 

But Lucifer is still an archangel, he’s still “absolute,” and he still has no idea what to do with Free Will. He has no script, he has no role to play. So for the first time in his entire existence, he IS the “big brother.” With Michael in the cage, his link to his “true vessel” severed by Dean’s rejection of it, he’s become “lesser than.”

We’ve gone off script here, and Lucifer’s learning that in this post-destiny world with Chuck having relinquished the earth to Humanity, he can write his own script just like everyone else. And this is Lucifer’s story now.

(I mean, from Lucifer’s pov here, not that SPN is now the Luci Show, because no it’s obviously not…)

Because to an archangel, there is no such thing as free will:

MICHAEL: Think of a million random acts of chance that let John and Mary be born, to meet, to fall in love, to have the two of you. Think of the million random choices that you make, and yet how each and every one of them brings you closer to your destiny. Do you know why that is? Because it’s not random. It’s not chance. It’s a plan that is playing itself out perfectly. Free will’s an illusion, Dean. That’s why you’re going to say yes. Oh, buck up. It could be worse. You know, unlike my brothers, I won’t leave you a drooling mess when I’m done wearing you.

(Yeah, sure, Michael. I mean, how long did y’all plan all this BS out? How hard did y’all have to work to make sure Sam and Dean were born? And that they would be raised to be hunters, to be born, bred, raised, and trained to be the Ultimate Vessels? 

just see Cas in 4.16:  Strange. Strange how a leaky pipe can undo the work of angels when we ourselves are supposed to be the agents of fate.

yeah, angels are the “agents of fate,” moving the playing pieces into position and setting up the apocalypse…)

DEAN: Team Free Will. One ex-blood junkie, one dropout with six bucks to his name, and Mr. Comatose over there. It’s awesome.
SAM: It’s not funny.
DEAN: I’m not laughing.