spn 5.10

ltleflrt  asked:

I'm on s5 of my hiatus re-watch and I just watched the episode where Jo and Ellen die. And the scene where Jo is telling them she's going to die and she'll stay behind to stop the hellhounds is almost the same as the s12 episode where Cas was dying from the stab wound. Their stomach wounds were in the same place. A mother knelt next to her left side while the boys stood above her. And Dean was in love with Jo and Cas in both scenarios. Dean never got to kiss Cas tho :(

Yeah. OH gosh. I think the comparison was deliberate, because there were a lot of callbacks to 5.10 in 12.12. They were both about Crowley providing them rather key information about magical weapons (the Colt, the Lance of Michael). In fact the bit about the Colt… Crowley returned it to them in 5.10 (after having “stolen” it from them in or having it stolen from them back in s3, and then he promptly stole it back again to give to Ramiel), and a Winchester stole it back in 12.12.

I mean, 5.10 was called Abandon All Hope, and we nearly got to that point in 12.12. Cas didn’t get a kiss, or even really the equivalent of a kiss (an answer to his “I love you.”) He came just about as close to dying as it was possible to do without actually dying… And the fact he didn’t die was a neat subversion.

Now post 12.23, there’s still unsettled things between Dean and Cas, but now I think Dean’s gonna have at least a few episodes to focus on his regrets. Jo also had a chance to choose for herself to make that sacrifice, and at the time it was for a good cause, would help them keep fighting… even if it turned out that their weapon was ineffective against Lucifer and they wouldn’t win that particular fight. At least they WON the fight against Ramiel.

MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH VERY VERY IMPORTANT

Okay. Go rewatch 5x10. There’s something really important about 10 minutes in.


So Dean and Sam have just finished discussing whether Sam was going to go with to Missouri to kill Lucifer with the Colt, which they’ve just gotten from Crowley. They finish their conversation and look over at Cas, Ellen, and Jo, who are in Bobby’s kitchen. They’re all laughing, Cas has just downed six shots and said “I think I’m starting to feel something.” You can kind of hear Jo going “I’m going to grab another beer.” We assume that Dean looks over and watches because she’s walking away from them and you can see her backside, but he’d dropped what he was saying when he heard Cas laughing. He stares at the group, but even as Jo moves diagonally from where he was looking, his look never wavers from where Ellen and CAS are sitting. Sam says “Man, talk about stupid ideas.” (There are two possibilities on this here, just gimme a minute.) Dean says “Good God. True that.” I assume this is Dean Winchester speak for “It’s the end of the world, I’m only half-sober, and I’ve just decided that I really should start pursuing my hot angel friend.”

Now, the sam thing. Two possibilities:

  1. He actually thought that Dean was staring at Jo and was reminding Dean that going after her would be dumb. (Probably because he knows about Cas)
  2. “It’s the end of the world and now is probably not the best time to try to start a healthy romantic relationship with your best friend, Dean.”


The next thing we see is Jo getting her beer from the fridge, Dean walking over to her. There’s a slight time gap between how long it might’ve taken her to get to the fridge and start rummaging and for Dean to get across the room to her. I, personally, am choosing to believe he hesitated and almost went to go flirt with Cas, then chickened out and went after Jo. She’s been more like a little sister to him than a potential date, if you ask me, and he falls into the whole “I’m a ladies man and I can charm my way into a bookshelf’s pants” routine. 


I’d say Dean knew he was at least kinda into Cas since s5 or even before.

anonymous asked:

So it's official that the nephilim has a human soul and grace, right? Well, maybe the reason the baby picked Cas as it's guardian was because it could instinctually tell that Cas also has a soul and grace. Sort of a like with like situation. The nephilim, the offspring of a human and an angel, picking a creature that has straddled that line more so than anyone else... it makes sense. I think Castiel can empathize in a way no one else would be able to.

HECK MAYBE. That’s definitely plausible.

(I have been starting an awful lot of replies by shouting HECK lately and I’m beginning to become concerned that I am turning into my mother, but that’s neither here nor there, just my personal wtf moment)

At least for why it would feel like Cas would be a natural ally to it, since they really do share that similarity… but that makes me think of how Lucifer once compared himself to Cas back in 5.10.

Lucifer: I rebelled, I was cast out. You rebelled, you were cast out. Almost all of heaven wants to see me dead, and if they succeed, guess what? You’re their new public enemy number one. We’re on the same side, like it or not, so why not just serve your own best interests? Which in this case just happen to be mine?

Yeah, on the surface it looked exactly the same, when you put it like that.

But Lucifer rebelled because he hated humanity, Cas rebelled because he lovevd humanity. Pretty key difference there…

And I’m thinking there’s gonna be a crucial difference between Cas and the nephilim, too… like Free Will…

Especially after Dean invoked Team Free Will in 12.19.

I don’t think that was a throwaway line, there. That’s literally what it’s gonna come down to.

what do you think meg would think about lucifer possessing cas?

on the one hand, lucifer is her idol. she loved him so much even if he didn’t give two shits about her, and you can really see it in 5.10.

but on the other, she also loved cas, or at least cared deeply about him. she watched over him and helped get him back to health after he took on sam’s crazy in 7.17.

i mean, her character developed a fuck of a lot between season 5 and season 8, and she would have grown even more if she’d lived to season 11. would she still be so loyal to lucifer if she was still alive now, or would she fight to get cas back?

Meg in 8.17/Jo in 5.10

So there were a lot of callbacks to different scenes in 8.17 - the thousands of dead Deans to the charred wings Cas left in Heaven, Cas’s beat down of Dean similar to Samifer’s beat down of Dean, Dean using “need” to reach Cas, etc etc. 

There was also, I think, a lot of similarity to how Meg and Jo are framed in their dying episode (which is almost funny, considering Meg killed her.)

Fans, overall, did not like Jo, and from what I’ve read a lot of that stemmed from the way she was written as a love interest, as opposed to a character who was also a love interest. [I mean, don’t get me wrong, any of the women potential love interests were hated on something fierce, especially in s1-3, so fans probably weren’t ready to like her anyways. But even though she did have her own specific motives and desires, she is framed around Dean’s interest in her. Twice she points out she wants to hunt because of her dad - in 2.6 No Exit and 7.4 Defending Your Life - but the show still puts emphasis on Dean’s role in having her hunt, and it never shows her as an independent hunter. When she is off hunting on her own we actually see she is back to working in a bar (2.14), and then later we only see her when she is also hunting with Ellen (5.2, 5.10) even though part of her character was her desire to get out from under her mom’s control, or her hunting is an off-hand comment (2.21, 6.17).] But the writers gave her a “redemption” from her crush on Dean by having her reject his advances/last night on Earth speech. See, she’s more than just a love interest, the writers say. And then they killed her.  She died saving Dean (she got hurt from the hellhound because of putting herself in the way to protect Dean) and ETA: didn’t even get to actually blow up the store. But before that we get a touching scene between the two of them of Dean and Jo saying goodbye.

Meg, my thorny beauty, is a villain. She’s killed family friends, she’s aimed to trap John twice, she sexually assaults both Sam and Jo, she possesses people including Sam, she helps Lucifer…Meg is a villain. And since she’s the only one alive since S1, she’s a damn good villain. But Meg, as she points out, is also “a little good” (8.17). What started as a way to say fuck-you to Crowley (because, to be clear, that’s her cause after Lucifer dies, destroying Crowley, and she’s wiling to work with the Winchesters to do it) turns into a general liking of Cas. (To clarify, I think she wanted to fuck Clarence, and then she started to like him, and then all of a sudden in 8.17 he was her unicorn which WTH.) She isn’t redeemed and she doesn’t want to be, but she does consider herself an ally (she wasn’t surprised but she was disappointed the Winchesters never went after her during her torture tour with Crowley).

So in her death episode, we have her helping the Winchesters, having a special talk with her crush where her crush is trying to comfort her, sacrificing herself for her crush even though it made just as much sense to frame the scene as her sacrificing herself to fuck over her enemy, and dies so the Winchesters (and Cas) can get away. She dies and ends the speculation of if the Megstiel relationship was going to go somewhere. And though it comes from opposite directions, as soon as we see the scene of her planning a hook-up with Cas (just like as soon as we saw the scene of Jo rejecting Dean because of her self-worth), we knew she was going to die.

And it’s pretty fucking shitty that we once again have a woman character’s death framed as a love interest instead of what she really is, which is a hunter and a demon who are trying to stop their enemy from winning, even if it means their life.