There are various instances when Chara has the opportunity to absorb a boss monster soul, but they never do. If Chara sought power to attack the humans, why didn’t they take Asriel’s soul instead? What stops them from taking a boss monster soul after genocide? Would they take one on the surface after a soulless pacifist run?
When Chara was Alive
Chara had plenty of opportunities to take a boss monster soul when they were alive.
Having been adopted by the Royal Family, they had access to three boss monster souls: Agore’s, Toriel’s, and Asriel’s. Instead of taking any of their souls, however, they came up with a plan to kill themself and have their own soul absorbed by Asriel. After all, had they attempted to take Asriel’s soul, there would have been complications.
Chara could have secretly killed Asriel, but this would require Chara to carry out the plan alone. Once absorbed, it is very unlikely that Asriel would have cooperated with Chara at all.
Alternatively, Chara could have tried to convince Asriel to sacrifice himself for the plan. But how well would anyone accept a plan that involves his own death? Additionally, without Chara’s body to incite the fight with the humans, Asriel would have even less reason to let Chara use their “full power”. Keep in mind that even though the humans attacked them first, Asriel stopped Chara from using their full power. It is almost certain that Asriel would stop Chara from attacking the village, especially since their attack would be unprovoked.
There is also the chance that Chara would not be able to figure out how to absorb Asriel’s soul in time. A boss monster’s soul does persist, but only for a few precious moments. Chara may not want to risk the plan on such a small, unknown window of time.
The most important reason, however, is the fact that there is no record of what would happen should a human absorb a monster soul.
On the other hand, there are records of what happens when a monster absorbs a human soul.
The records are found in these ancient writings that describe the War of Humans and Monsters. One plaque specifically mentions that – although possible – a human has never absorbed a boss monster soul.
Considering these writings are referred to as ancient and the War happened before Chara’s arrival, it is very likely these existed during Chara’s time, meaning they probably did have an idea on how absorbing a soul could work. Instead of risking their plan on something completely unknown, Chara would base their plan on something that has happened before – a monster absorbing a human soul.
Some people argue that Chara could not have possibly known they would have any control over Asriel’s body after being absorbed. However, there are two plaques of ancient writing located in Waterfall that potentially had more information about absorbing souls.
Unfortunately, the first one was defaced by Nice Cream Guy. There is no way to know what knowledge is shared in the ancient writing. The second one, located in the hidden artifact room, is inaccessible to read because of the pedestal placed in front of it. (Even if you try to read from the sides, no additional text will be displayed.)
At the End of Genocide
After eliminating every monster that stood in their way, Chara reaches Asgore and strikes him down before the fight is properly initiated. Before they can finish him off and take his soul, however, Flowey intervenes and destroys both Asgore and his soul.
This prevents Chara from absorbing Asgore’s soul. Unlike before where a monster absorbing their soul would work out, this time Chara needs the boss monster’s soul. It’s their only way out of the Underground. To pass through the barrier, Chara needs both a human soul and a monster soul, as explained by Alphys during the neutral route.
Destroying the barrier is not an option either. Asgore never has the chance to reveal the human souls, since Chara is quick to strike him down. Even if Chara manages to find the human souls, they would not be able to absorb nor use the souls, as explained in True Lab’s Entry #7.
At the Start of a Post-Genocide Route
After giving up “your soul” to Chara in exchange for the world, Chara is able to take back control from Frisk. Thus, many question why Chara does not simply take Toriel’s soul in the next run.
As stated before, this could be because there’s no precedent for a human hosting a monster soul. Risking everything on the unknown could sabotage Chara’s plan. Chara could end up losing their save and load abilities or end up destroying their host. There is no telling what the outcome would be. Besides, they already have a guaranteed ticket to the surface – Frisk will take them there in the soulless pacifist ending. But there is another reason why Chara would be hesitant to take Toriel’s soul. The answer lies in Asriel’s body-sharing experience with Chara.
After Asriel absorbed Chara’s soul, the two shared control over their body. Imagine if Chara shared Frisk’s body with the overwhelmingly kind Toriel.
Chara may not be able to kill easily if Toriel is constantly fighting for control. Asriel, a fellow child, was able to stop Chara from using their full power in the human village. Presumably, the overwhelmingly sweet Toriel would be able to stop Chara from hurting others as well.
Furthermore, it is likely much easier to overpower a human child who is learning, than an adult monster who has established morals. Frisk is more susceptible to Chara’s influences, being both young and a human. According to one of the library books, humans have proven that they do not need love, hope, and compassion for their souls to exist, unlike monsters. This possibly makes humans more susceptible to certain feelings.
At the End of a Subsequent Genocide
However, there is something to consider. In subsequent genocide runs, why doesn’t Chara simply kill Flowey as he tells his story, long before he can interfere again? If Chara can eliminate Flowey, then they can peacefully absorb Asgore’s soul.
The reasons are possibly because Chara already has “your soul” in their possession and Asgore may be a burden to share a body with. Like Toriel, Asgore may try to fight Chara’s control. Even if it’s too late to save the monsters that were eliminated, Asgore may try something drastic in order to save the remaining monsters. He may try to commit suicide to kill both himself and Chara. Asgore is the one monster in canon who commits suicide to do what he believes is the right thing.
In a neutral route, if Asgore or Flowey are killed previously, Asgore commits suicide
upon being shown mercy. He forfeits his soul in order for Frisk to pass through the barrier.
It is clear that Asgore is burdened with guilt and has a strong need for redemption. Sharing a body with him may be more trouble than it is worth to Chara.
Post Soulless Pacifist Route – On the Surface
On the surface, Chara would have the opportunity to kill either Toriel or Asgore to absorb their boss monster souls. To be honest, there is no telling if they do or not. It is only certain that they eliminate Frisk’s friends, as evident in the unsettling ending that features this photograph.
There is nothing to say Chara does not absorb either boss monsters’ soul. However, it is unlikely. As previously mentioned, the split control over a shared body would be a hindrance to Chara.
Again, a human has never absorbed a monster soul in recorded history.
It is a total unknown. Why risk it when they are already on the surface? Frisk and Chara have proven to be capable of wiping out all monsters in the Underground. There seems to be little need for a boss monster soul.
Who all does Chara attack and how? There is no clear answer as the ending only shows Chara in Frisk’s place and the faces of Frisk’s friends obscured. It is possible that the powers Chara gained from the end of genocide route – the powers to create and destroy worlds – persist in some manner within Chara in the soulless pacifist route. However, there is nothing to support or disprove this theory. At the very least, Frisk’s friends have been eliminated – this is presumably the case regardless of whether or not you choose to stay with Toriel. In the Toriel ending, Chara reveals to you that they are in control. The scene is then followed by pitch black and laughter. It is up to our imaginations as to why they are laughing so ominously.
Our imaginations are free to come up with ideas on what Chara does on the surface. Maybe they slowly kill off monsters and weaker humans, gaining LOVE and becoming stronger. Perhaps they stage attacks on both monsters and humans to start another war.
All we really know is what is shown in the two grim endings. Chara is revealed in either the defaced photograph or the bedroom, laughing. Both are followed by a slowed version of “Anticipation” and eerie red text. These endings imply that whatever Chara does on the surface is not good.
But what if Chara did absorb a boss monster soul, regardless of the split control? Will they gain power? Is there any chance that absorbing a monster soul produces the same outcome as the reverse?
The Differences between Humans and Monsters
Consider the following text found from two of the library’s books.
Monsters are mostly made of magic and are attuned to the soul. With these facts, it is possible to make the following conclusion: a monster that absorbs a human’s soul gains great power because they are influenced by the powerful nature of the human soul.
Would the same happen to a human that absorbs a monster soul? It’s possible, but it is unlikely to be the case. Humans are stronger than monsters physically, but they are not attuned to their soul. With their physical bodies, it is very possible that they will not gain great power from absorbing a boss monster soul.
The boss monster soul, however, seemingly gives the human soul a magical boost, allowing them to pass through the barrier.
It is unknown whether or not there is any other benefit to absorbing a boss monster soul. In any case, there are reasons why Chara would not absorb a boss monster soul.
A human absorbing a boss monster soul has never happened before, so it presents a big unknown
Sharing control of a body with a boss monster can be a hindrance and possibly dangerous depending on who it is
Chara has proven to be capable of gaining LOVE and becoming powerful without a boss monster soul
There may be no benefit to absorbing the boss monster soul aside from passing through the barrier
Don’t you hate it when you come up with a good idea, then before you can execute it you find someone else who already had the idea executed and you don’t want to do it yourself because you don’t want to be accused of copying/stealing their idea, when you really thought of it yourself and they happened to think of it too but they got around to it first
I’ve made no secret of it, that I’m a fan of Juliette on Grimm.
And I’ll freely admit that I had severe issues with her behavior in the last half of s4. It hurt seeing her behave so out of character, seeing her become something she never was, a villain. And killing Kelly Burkhardt was horrendous.
But what pisses me of is that there are people who generally believe that she was irredeemable for that sin. And that she deserved to die for it.
Becauseyou rarely see that kind of attitude when a male char goes evil. Or does something while under evil influence.
People had no problem following Angel’s redemption story after he killed Jenny Callender.
Stiles is easily forgiven for what he did as the Nogitsune.
Very few people had issues with Sam after the soulless version of him, intentionally had his brother turned into a vampire just to get info on the Alpha vampire. And don’t get me started on how forgiving people were about his atrocious behavior in s8-s9
No one thought Cas deserved to die when he became a God and ruined Sam’s wall.
And i could go on like that.
But when a female character does anything even remotely bad, she’s suddenly fullscale evil and irredeemable.
Sam composed himself and made his way back to his classroom. There were still five minutes until class started. You were in front of his desk, waiting to be told what to do before class.
“Who were those ‘men’?” Sam asked, approaching you. He leaned against the desk, not far from you.
You looked over to him and shrugged. “I’ve only seen them around campus.” You told him. “I think the one who you…choked…was some guy named JP.” At least, that’s what you heard him be called. Licking your lips, your hands were gripping the strap to your messenger bag.
He nodded. “He comes near you again, you come straight to me.”
“Wh-what if it’s after hours?”
Sam held his hand out. “Cell phone.” He said, leaving no room for argument. You pulled it from your pocket and handed it to him. He went to unlock it and looked at you. “Password?” He raised an eyebrow when you went to take it back.
Sighing, you told him. “It’s CTatum.” You mumbled.
“Did you just say CTatum?” He asked. You nodded and his eyes went back to your phone, quickly unlocking it. Moments later, your phone was back in your hand. Your fingers gripped it, but he didn’t let it go. Sam stood, his toes nearly touching yours. You looked up to him and swallowed. “He ever comes near you, you are to call me. Understood?”
You nodded. “Y-yes, sir.” You managed.
He smirked. “Good. You may have a seat.” Sam let go of your phone and turned to sit down at his desk.
So apparently in the new patch, Asriel's gone at the and of true pacifist. When he said he'll turn back into a flower, did he mean he'll become Flowey again, or did he mean he'll become a flower?
Actually, we completed a Soulless Pacifist run recently after the patch, and we saw Asriel at the Ruins with the flowers as usual. To those who don’t know, the Soulless Pacifist route is just a Pacifist Route after a successful Genocide Route. There are no differences between the True Pacifist and Soulless Pacifist Routes besides the ending.
The patch didn’t change anything with Asriel. Some people were mistaken and did not know he disappears after you complete the credits. We double checked to make sure he still didn’t appear after reloading the game after the end credits – he didn’t.
Now, let’s review what Asriel says.
He may not directly say he will be Flowey, but he is still a vessel with determination. When he turns back into a flower, he will be Flowey. Because of this, Asriel makes a point to ask Frisk to remember him as he is now and says he doesn’t want them to think of Flowey as Asriel.
Flowey is seen again once the game is reopened after the end credits, pleading with either Chara or the player not to do a true reset. This ties back to why you cannot find Asriel after completing the credits - Asriel has already turned back to Flowey.
So, to clarify:
Flowey uses soul power to take his original monster form, Asriel
At the end of the Pacifist Route, he releases all the human and monster souls
Asriel says he won’t be able to maintain his monster form for very long without the souls
He can be visited at the Ruins before the end credits for some extra dialogue
After the end credits, once the game has been reloaded, Flowey appears and speaks to either Chara or the player (it’s ambiguous, as the player and Chara share the same name, but he’s absolutely not speaking to Frisk)
He has turned back into a flower, still filled with determination: Flowey
If you continue the game, after the game has been reloaded, Asriel no longer appears at the Ruins because he isn’t “Asriel” anymore
I was re-watching 11x03 the other day and I started thinking
about what Amara said to Crowley…
“When God created mankind, he really screwed it up”
“Every time I take in a soul, I feel how much emptiness
“God made a world where people have to suffer, and then they
This is Amara’s take on the world. (Admittedly she said all
of this whilst still only a little girl, but even the souls she took in after
this moment wouldn’t have made her change her mind.) Let’s revisit the souls
Jenna was first. There wasn’t much to imply that Jenna was
an unhappy soul specifically, but she clearly had repressed issues with her
grandmother which materialised when she was soulless. It was speculated after
11x02 aired that Jenna’s sexuality may have been a cause for conflict between
her and her highly religious grandmother (This postby @elizabethrobertajones has some good analysis about Jenna’s background).
Whilst there is nothing to suggest that the suburban family
she ate had anything wrong with them, she feasted on them before she made the
comments I have quoted above, so clearly they weren’t living the dream so much
as just living.
Crowley feeds her demons. Which are the corrupted souls of
humans after centuries being tortured or torturing in hell. Not exactly a great
promotion for God’s good work are they?
Then she eats Sydney’s soul. Sydney who we are told was
abused as a child and who suffered horrifically because of it. On top of this she recently suffered heartbreak.
Len may not be emotionally troubled. But he is lonely. He
fills his life with his passion for Lizzie Borden but only shortly before his
soul is taken he is given a restraining order which restricts him from pursuing
his passion. So Len has also been denied something he loved.
With Goldie it was heavily implied that she had a troubled
relationship with her mother. She wasn’t a happy soul and this was made quite
clear in her conversation with her friend. She was kept in line and was unable to pursue any relationships because of her controlling mother, hence, once again, a lonely soul.
There seems to be at least some kind of a theme with the
souls Amara eats, and that is that they all in some way fit her description of “emptiness”.
None of them were particularly happy. All had a loneliness or heartache weighing
on them so of course Amara’s first experiences of humanity were going to be
The meta I just reblogged (here) explored Amara’s choices in the souls she consumes, and how she may be searching for souls that remind her of herself (or possibly Dean) as she tries to understand God’s creation. Perhaps she is drawn to ‘darker souls’?
She has only seen the painful side of humanity. The side
that convinces her that God messed up. Amara talks about how in her universe,
there will be nothing but bliss. She says to Dean “That feelings when you are
with me, for everyone, forever.” But that isn’t bliss. Not as Dean described
it: “Attraction, connection? It scares me.” That sounds like paralysis by fear
rather than ‘bliss’.
Speculation time! “This is a story, about Love and Heartbreak and… Love…”
Amara believes that she can do a better
job of creating the universe because she thinks that God’s creation suffer in
endless emptiness and misery. She knows only the bad side of humanity. She
believes that her ‘bliss’ is better than that. But she has not yet experienced
humanity at its greatest…. It’s funny because I kept thinking about what
Castiel said to Hannah back in 10x01 about what rises out of chaos “Art, Hope,
Love Dreams”. To which Hannah replied “But those are human things.”
What if all Amara really needs in order to be stopped is to
experience those “human things” that make life worth living, the things that
make angels fall? This post briefly touched upon the fact that it may not be a powerful weapon that stops
Amara in the end (whether Hand of God or otherwise) and it seems to me that
maybe reasoning with Amara is the better option here? We know that Chuck/God is
coming back, but I can’t help but speculate that the answer to this whole
problem is love. (here is where I tag @mittensmorgul since this all relates
back to her grand unification via love theory which I can’t stop obsessing
Love has been a recurring theme in the subtext of Supernatural
since the Carver era began (well actually it’s been a recurring theme since
before then but Carver has made it more of a plot point.) It always seems to be
the one thing our characters are lacking, but the thing they desire most. I
know it’s a cliché to say it but the power of love can save the day. It is the
most powerful force in the universe. It is what saved the world in Swan Song
and if anyone can show Amara how important it is to not destroy the universe it
is Mr Humanity himself Dean Winchester. Because Amara said it herself that her
and Dean would ‘become one’ and if that happens won’t she be in for a surprise
when she feasts on him? What with all the love filling up his soul in so many different ways. Dean may not think he does the whole ‘Love and…Love’ thing… But Oh boy does he. It could very well be what saves him, and everyone else as well.
Imagine Sans inviting himself over to have a sleep over after a Soulless Pacifist run to keep Chara from killing Toriel.
Imagine Sans inviting everyone over to get as many people there to keep Chara in check as he can. Before the end of the night, Frisk’s room is filled with an insane amount of noise and activity, and Undyne physically stops Chara/Frisk from leaving the room for the entire night.
Alphys brings a laptop loaded up with all her anime, and Chara gets distracted from their lust for murder after watching Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure and falling in love with Dio. Chara makes a promise that they’ll still kill Alphys, only after they’re done watching the series.