The distance from Florence to Palermo (where Hannibal went to leave his broken heart) is almost 1200 kilometers!
The journey lasts about 13 hours with public transportation and even in the most ideal situation he would to change from train to bus and back while dragging a suitcase with a body of a full-grown man with him. Like damn, that sad cannibal sure was commited to get that heart where Will could find it. That’s some husband-material right there.
it DOES bother me when people slap me with an aphobe label because i honestly believe acearo people have a right to a community and LGBTQ acearo people have a right to speak on their unique experience etc etc….like I’m so so so welcoming of so many people to speak on their experiences and form community! but because it’s boiled down to such high-emotional-stakes political tug of war, I can get labeled ze enemé because I’ve discussed my old experience as IDing as ace, or because of….fuckin…..,,jughead jokes 😶. it does bother me. it makes me sad. why are we cannibalizing each other when there’s so much common ground
what is the dead dove tag? like what does it mean? i know it's used a lot in conjunction with HTP but i never understood??? thanks guys!! i know you're busy, and i think yall are doing great!!!!!
the ‘dead dove: do not eat’ thing is actually from an episode of arrested development!
one of the characters finds a brown bag in the fridge with a note that says ‘dead dove do not eat’ taped to it? and when he opens the bag there’s…. a dead dove inside it. he just looks at it and says, “I don’t know what i expected.” when he was clearly warned upfront about it??? you can watch that 7 sec clip right here btw :P
so in the context of fandom, ‘dead dove: do not eat’ is used as a warning to let people know the work is exactly what is says on the tin. from fanlore:
The “Dead Dove: Do Not Eat” tag would essentially be a “what it says on the tin” metatag, indicating “you see the tropes and concepts tagged here? they are going to appear in this fic. exactly as said.
so if you see a fic with a major character death tag? a major character is going to die. no happy endings tag? all sad endings here. cannibalism? food is people. and so on :D
Hannibal: I’m just…so…hurt
Will: You framed me for murder and killed one of my science buddies.
Hannibal: And you thought it was appropriate to send a second rate murderer after me.
Will: Are you…moping?
Hannibal: Excuse me, I need to go throw a lavish dinner party so everyone can tell me how great and talented I am.
Will: I. Just.
Hannibal: *sheds single tear* I’m just going to have to work through my feelings *cannibal sad walk away*
Will:…Still framed…still…in a cage…
Hannibal: *quiet, disappointed sigh*
I might be delusional [glares at last anon] but I feel like most of the people rooting for a s4/movie are Hannigram shippers, or at least people that aren't anti-Hannigram and/or enjoy their interactions. Part of me can't believe that Bryan and Co. would alienate such a huge part of their fanbase by doing away with Will for Clarice. Plus, show!Hannibal is WAY more invested in Will than book/movie!Hannibal was w/ Clarice, imo. I just don't see him getting over Will and moving on in this universe.
I don’t think Hannibal would get over Will very easily either. I mean, we’ve seen repeatedly Hannibal’s reaction to losing Will in different situations.
When Hannibal thought Tobias killed Will, Hannibal was faced with genuine feelings and realizations of oh boy I actually care for that man more than I thought and went on to release his inner murderator with a little more rage than he was prepared to have. (should we say, passion?) And the aftermath? Where Will ends up being alive? Hannibal reacts with genuine vulnerability. His future-boyfriend is alive and he’s never felt this sort of relief wash over him in his life.
When Will was imprisoned for longer than Hannibal had planned, Hannibal was decidedly depressed about it and looked at Will with the the kind of pleading a sad puppy does after eating their owner’s favorite shoe and really just wants him to love him again.
When Hannibal guts Will? This attempt at scrubbing the slate clean, leaving it all, an attempted goodbye? Hannibal is crying. He’s crying and he cradles Will to him and his plan has backfired to all hell and he still loves this dog-nerd.
Mason about to take Will’s face. His face. His beautiful Will face. Hannibal goes on what will be known as a protective rampage because no pig like Mason gets to touch a single damn hair on Will’s head. Fuck that noise. And then he carries his brideboyfriendmurder-buddy love of his life through the freezing snow and puts him to bed like the best kind of husband ever. And of course Will being Will has to make things difficult and reject Hannibal while looking like the coziest and fluffiest puppy ever, making Hannibal look like his heart has literally been ripped in two.
Then we have Hannibal waiting for three goddamn years, having to deal with his ex-girlfriend and Chilton. Hell, in other words.
And when Dolarhyde is supposedly dead? And Will has no reason to keep coming to see Hannibal? Hannibal doesn’t even bother trying to hide how vulnerable he is, how much he wants Will to think of him after this.
Do you think Hannibal can apologize to Will, or even to anybody, and mean it? I suppose the corresponding question is: Can Lucifer apologize? Can Alpha Males apologize? I would like to think that he is evolving in this regard, esp. after episode 2.13. Will has changed, has Hannibal also changed? It would be less obvious, but I hope so. What do you think?
Did you think that Will could change Hannibal, the way Hannibal changed Will?
He already did. (:
Hannibal has apologized at various times in the series, but without a doubt his most sincere moment of apology was in “Ko No Mono,” when he and Will were talking about Abigail.
And just look at this sad cannibal face after he watched Will’s eyes fill with tears.
We know Hannibal is sincere in this apology for two reasons.
One is that he invoked the teacup metaphor when he obliquely promised to bring Abigail back. The teacup thing is and always has been about Mischa, whom Hannibal had talked about in this scene as well. He understood Will’s feelings of loss and related to them because of the loss of his sister, which informed so much of his own interactions with Abigail. He didn’t say he was sorry just to placate or mollify Will—in fact, his response later, when he said that God answered Will’s prayer to see Abigail again by allowing him to see “a part of her,” indicated that he doesn’t take pity on Will at all. He said he was sorry because it was true.
The other reason is that he promised to bring Abigail back at all.
Hannibal has determined that he is going to make this up to Will in the most meaningful and powerful way possible, by reuniting them all in that beautiful and romantic surprise he had planned for when the moment was right.
That is the essence of a sincere apology: to mean it to the marrow of your bones and then do your best to right the wrong.
As for what’s upcoming in the next season, it’s hard to say with any certainty, but if I were writing it, I would be exploring how Hannibal will change as a result of learning to regret.
Hannibal says to Will in “Shiizakana” that he very rarely feels regret, though it’s not entirely outside of his experience. It’s both a new and natural place for his character to go. However, to get him there, he’s going to have to get past the idea that Will wronged him in a way that was greater than he wronged Will, and I don’t know how long it will take him to do that. I doubt it could happen overnight, or without some gesture on Will’s part to meet him halfway. But Bryan Fuller says he has surprises in store for us about Will’s motivations in the upcoming season, so I’m sure whatever they are will have us all feeling gutted. The show will no doubt give them the opportunity to talk about it all later, since most of what they do is talk, and Hannibal will eventually be behind bars with little else on his daily agenda.
Hannibal is not just Lucifer: he is also a man, with a man’s needs and desires and fears. Of course he can learn and grow, just as any man can. Yet the devil is the essence of who he is, and I don’t think that can change—he can’t be truly saved or redeemed, not any more than Will could be completely corrupted. But being a man is just as much a part of him as being the devil is.
Murasaki says to Hannibal, near the end of Hannibal Rising, “What’s left in you to love?”
The answer to that question might well be the point of the entire series.
I love this would Will and Hannibal kill post 3x13 discussion! Hmm Hannibal would stop killing if it's his choice and he has higher goal to achieve. So how much can Will manipulate subtly enough for Hannibal to stop by his own choice? I mean, in 3x07 to make Hannibal turned himseld in out of his own volition. Will was both sincere and manipualtive, so it worked (tho like how sure he was of Hannibal turning himself in is up to debate). Gaa, these two and constant mind games.
Ohmigosh! Just as I was worrying that I had worn out my welcome ^^; Thank you for saying so!
Errrgh, you guys are really pushing me on Hannibal’s ability to choose…
Hannibal… it would take a MIGHTY BIG CARROT (phallic imagery mostly unintended) for Hannibal to quit killing cold turkey. Because it would literally be Hannibal giving up his identity. He would have to agree to becoming a different person and I’m not sure if anyone is taking this as seriously as Hannibal would take it. It’s easy for all of us to say ‘well obviously not killing is the right decision’ but Hannibal doesn’t operate like that. And yes he CAN choose, his self-restraint is proof of that, his creativity and artistry is proof of that, but he will ALWAYS. want. to. kill. Period. ALWAYS. He never doesn’t kill because he doesn’t feel like it, that’s NEVER the reason, it’s always mitigating factors.
However, Hannibal did give up his freedom. Hannibal Lecter went to jail for the chance to see Will Graham again. So… Hannibal has already changed/is changing in massive ways. I hate to admit the possibility because it would be SUCH A BETRAYAL of everything he is and has worked hard to achieve, but it is possible, just barely possible, that Hannibal would give it up. But ONLY, only only only, because of Will Graham and for Will Graham. We would not be even HAVING this conversation if Will was not a thing. Will has fucked Hannibal up in the biggest way possible, to the point that we can even CONSIDER Hannibal changing everything that he is. For Will.
But at this point in their lives? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY NOT. NOOOOOPE. Hannibal is PLEASED AS PUNCH to have killed with Will and his FONDEST WISH is to do it again as soon as possible, That was not a goodbye for Hannibal, that was a welcome to the new world, new chapter of his life where EVERYTHING IS SUNSHINE AND GLORY with Will by his side. He has ZERO INTEREST in stopping right now and Will would have to be very cunning and not react in the moment if he wants to slowly break Hannibal out of it. Will would have to find or create (more likely create) something Hannibal wants more than killing, and good fucking luck with that. Will does have himself to start with, but he’d have to be VERY subtle and keep milking good, positive, addictive experiences for all they’re worth, to the point that he has Hannibal routinely begging for more, begging without even being asked, unconsciously begging, before Will could start bargaining Hannibal into better behavior patterns. It would be a long, slow, meticulous gambit, which Will is not actually prone to playing (remember how well season 2 went? How Will could NEVER NOT EVEN ONCE close the deal?) and RISKY does not even begin to cover it because if Hannibal senses even for a second that he’s being manipulated? SON NO AMOUNT OF SAD CANNIBAL TEARS OF REGRET IS GONNA SAVE YOU THIS TIME. But, Will does have the advantage of being Will so it is just perceptibly possible that Will could pull the wool over Hannibal’s eyes long enough to do this. But I would not bet a worthless penny on it and I don’t want to be there for the fallout.
Point of contention about Digestivo and Will’s supposed masterplan ‘heeheehee I out-manipulated the master of manipulation’: no he did not. Will was sincere when he broke up with Hannibal, in much the same way Will is sincere when he says ‘you were supposed to leave’ in Mizumono. Digestivo and Mizumono parallel each other quite extraordinarily in that way, that Will asks Hannibal to leave, Hannibal doesn’t, Hannibal is forced to leave anyway, and everyone is left with a broken heart. Will is not… entirely shocked that Hannibal is still there in the same way he’s not actually surprised to see Hannibal dripping with blood in Mizumono. Nonetheless, Will wanted him to go, regardless of what he knows is the right thing to do.
Will’s heart-wrenching break up speech was not a calculated plan to trick Hannibal into turning himself in, Will doesn’t work that way. After the fact, as he tried to cope with Hannibal confessing his love no, I’m sorry, CONFESSING HIS LOVE, Will realizes Hannibal stayed because he told him to go. Will knows, and I don’t think it really surprises him, that Hannibal loves him and could not live without him. Especially if he’s been rejected, Hannibal is too proud and contrary-minded to go out without a fight. Or go period as Hannibal is possessive and obsessive as fuck. BUT, given Will has been here before, he may have subconsciously known this, hence why he isn’t surprised when Hannibal obeys established patterns of behavior and stays scratching at his door like another lost dog (HANNIBAL IS ONE OF WILL’S STRAYS NO BUT REALLY DO NOT EVEN FIGHT ME ON THIS).
And during the 3 years of silence and separation, Will has the time and the presence of mind to mull over this and realize his own manipulative power. What he tells Hannibal in Wrath of the Lamb is not a sudden revelation, it’s rehearsed. Will’s figured it out and is SMUG AS FUCK to be able to use power over Hannibal. And he absolutely claims he did it on purpose, of course he does, he has to, he has Hannibal in a position of vulnerability FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER, he HAS to fucking use that and maintain dominance.
(Unfortunately that doesn’t work out because Hannibal will not be subjugated by anyone, ESPECIALLY after confessing his vulnerability like that, and his response is basically ‘WHAT you say bitch? I give you my heart and you SLAP IT BACK IN MY FACE?! Okay sweetums, try this one on for size, was it good to see me? BECAUSE YOUR TROUSERS DON’T LIE. Boy I know you aching for me good and proper and I am NOT ABOUT to let you fucking forget it so think next time before you come at me with that weak ass shit. Do not think for one FUCKING SECOND that you have a leg up on me; I have so much dirt on you, I could bury you twice over.’ Um… something like that… >>)