public narrative

anonymous asked:

I don't know much about the GOT duo. But like it said below, 4yrs to reveal. And wasn't one of them off the show when they finally did come out?

Kit Harington and Rose Leslie dated off and on beginning in 2012, she left the show in 2014, they went public in April 2016 and the latest gossip now that everybody and their blind-ass grandma have been allowed in can see they’re a thing is that they’re “finally” moving in together (via Refinery29). In 2013, Kit called Rose a “very good friend” and they both have been cagey and not always on the same public narrative page when it comes to the nature of their relationship, so a ton of mixed messages and interviews that don’t add up have been part of the are they/aren’t they gossip. 

So on again/off again, not following the general Hollywood ish of moving in together before the wet spot on the sheet dries, misleading the public and the media during interviews, and spending years navigating their new celebrity as it pertains to their relationship before becoming more open? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: THIS. SHIT. HAPPENS. ALL. THE. TIME. 

getting past the filter

I’ve been reading right-wing media - not all the time, because the point of the exercise is understanding and past a point it just breeds exhaustion. But my impression is that the way right-wing media interprets the protests and the outrage and the fear and anger at Trump’s presidency is something like this:

The left won a lot of battles in a row, and they got used to winning every fight they got into, so they picked fights that they couldn’t possibly really care about, just to grind our faces in the dirt. And then they lost! And we won! And they are handling this with immature hysteria and obstructionism and riots, and we basically have to wade through them to put the country back on the rails, and where we fail it’s their fault and where we succeed it proves that they’re ineffectual and intellectually bankrupt and have no tactics beyond crying and complaining and calling people racist. And they’re complaining about things they were fine with under Obama so they’re not actually sincere anyway. And they still have a stranglehold nearly everywhere, but maybe now people’ll start to see through them and we’ll have a chance to roll it back.)

(Some examples of fights we ‘couldn’t possibly really care about’: making employers cover health care plans that included contraception coverage, making bakers bake wedding cakes for gay people, letting trans people use restrooms of their choice.)

And the presence of the narrative imposes a sort of filter, where things you do that make sense within it, or reinforce it, don’t get seen by half the country. Sometimes that doesn’t matter. But sometimes it really does; sometimes I want to be able to talk to the people who voted for Trump and be heard and be understood to be saying what I’m actually saying and not just ‘blah blah liberals won and won and won and can’t handle losing and are going to call you racist no matter what racist racist racist’.

So, obviously, I think this narrative is unfair in many, many ways. But what I’m really interested in right now is, what could a person do or say in order to slip past the narrative? Because it’s, well, encompassing - narratives usually are. Peaceful protests fit into the ‘the left is all bluster and whining’ arm of it and violent protests fit into ‘the left is a danger’ arm of it and no protests fit into the ‘we are the silent majority’ arm of it. And there are battles which really are worth fighting but which are trivial and silly to people sufficiently removed from them, like fights over letting trans people use public restrooms. 

But narratives are not all-encompassing - the vocal opposition of Senator McCain to Trump’s conduct doesn’t fit into it at all, the conservative judges overturning Trump’s executive orders doesn’t fit into it very well, the testimony of veterans about why their translators saved their lives and deserve the opportunity to live here which they were promised doesn’t fit into it.

Those are, of course, all examples of conservatives who can challenge the narrative by already having credibility within it. I can’t think of a great way for a liberal to establish that credibility - emphasizing that you understand why they believe the things they believe was tried very loudly during the campaign, and I think it mostly totally failed (both at establishing that, and at going from ‘we understand each other’ to ‘the filter you’re seeing me through isn’t capturing what I want and what I actually want is reasonable and comprehensible and human’.)

I feel like one important project of the next few months is figuring out how to communicate past the filter, how to say things that aren’t easily sorted into the narrative, and how to build from there enough trust that our concerns and fear and anger are heard as concern and fear and anger, instead of being easy to round off as ‘they lost and they’re sore losers’. I want past the filter. I want to be able to make myself understood. And I do still think that there’s some way that can be achieved.

Can y'all free him for that nasty family back in LA now pls? It’s already ridiculous how outside of his own fans people look at the situation and think he wants to closet himself in the year of Lord 2017, can he be at least lifted from one ugly thing???? One???? It’s disgusting how his public narrative is about a boy who can’t be on his own, always searching for a girl to be papped with and being extra with. It’s disgusting how it’s always the girls sacrificing something /for him/ and then he treats them like garbage. It’s DISGUSTING. He even lost his mum and he had to deal with a fake breakup and a new relationship back to back while faking to be excited for a nonexistent birthday. Fucking sake

miscellaneous umfb&mha meta

so in the run-up to ch14 i ended up sending even more textwalls to @aceinplainsight about virtually every thought that popped into my head about @kazliin‘s fic. i thought i could post some more observations of stuff i came up with when i reread the entire thing in anticipation of ch14, since my last post seemed to go over well. not sure there’s anything super insightful in here, but here it is. beneath a cut because of length:

Keep reading

spectralspices  asked:

So. Secret Empire. I read it and it's just a sickening mess. Everything happening is just in service of making the Big Event Happen (like civil war 2, bluh) and the only reason I'm really excited for this is so that we can just purge nazi-cap from our collective consciousness once this is over. I don't even have a question! I'm just venting about this shitty event! Fuck nick spencer, that guy is a moron with no respect for where cap CAME from. "Oh he was a nazi the whole time" eat SHIT SPENCER

poorsimon said:Do you think there is a slight possibility that we’ll get a fantastic four book in 2017 to celebrate jack kirbys centenary? Marvel is a hot mess right now with that boring fascist captain America and every series that I was enjoying is either ending in the next couple of months or crossover events are ruining them, looks like marvel is in the same place dc was during the new 52 era

Anonymous said:Thoughts on Dark Matter/Generations/Secret Empire? Specifically for secret Empire, Cap is on of my favorite heroes and I feel like this fundamentally breaks him in a really shitty way. Not to say we won’t get good stories with him in the future, but it’s sort of like Dr. Light where every time he shows up you can’t help but think of identity crisis.

There’s been a bit of a theme to my asks the last couple days.

So yeah. Spoilers ahead, obviously: in the midst of an all-out assault on the nation and world, just as it seemed everyone would make it through like always to see another day, America was betrayed by its systems and subverted from within, culminating in an overt fascist seizing of the White House. Don’t worry though, this week Marvel’s saying it isn’t political.

The cake-topper being that as it turns out via flashback, Nazi Cap (and in response to the inevitable um, actually’s: Hydra’s seminal story under Steranko showed their leader as a character created by Stan and Jack as a Nazi, pretty much all explicit Hydra-isn’t-Nazis material are retcons by Spencer for this arc, “Hail Hydra” is an obvious analogue for another fascist chant, the ‘real Hydra’ inner circle includes Nazis and Neo-Nazis, and this Cap’s vision for America includes white children hunting black children in the street. He’s a fuckin’ Nazi) isn’t a construct of the cosmic cube, but in fact the real Steve Rogers: the Axis won World War II, but the Allies used a cosmic cube to create a fake history where Rogers was on their side and they won the war - gotta ask why they didn’t deal with the Holocaust too - with the real guy now reactivated and fulfilling his true mission. Obviously, this not only delegitimizes every story of a character created by a pair of Jewish-Americans specifically to punch Hitler right in the fucking face, but does it by stating that in the natural course of things, the Master Race of course overtakes the Earth with their sheer superiority, with the very concept of the people they would annihilate having a chance at hope or justice or freedom being a lie currently in the process of getting torn down.

This is a little bit touchy.

There’s obvious franchising reasons for this: Chris Evans has made clear he isn’t sticking around for long if at all after Avengers 4, while as of that movie Anthony Mackie will still have at least 3 films in his contract, so it’s in their interests to set Sam Wilson up in the comics as Captain America to match. Problem is, they started the process before a movie about Steve Rogers, so they had to bring him back, and now have to figure out a way to get him out of the picture for a longer period than simply old age or death. And if you want to get him out of the running for the title of One True Captain America, not only making him a Nazi, and retroactively always a Nazi at that, but classifying literally every non-Nazi Captain America story essentially in-universe fanfic? That’ll get him off the board for awhile. It’s ruinously terrible, but also quick and easy, same as it was quick and easy to move Captain Marvel and once upon a time Iron Man into the spotlight in time for their movies by making them fascists. You’ll have to ask Marvel why fascism is their go-to shocking character twist, though.

I think the source point of the issues here stems from something simple I mentioned recently: I don’t think either of the Big Two necessarily believe there’s going to be a comic book industry in 20 years, or even necessarily 10, so there’s no real reason to attempt anything other than drawing as much blood from the stone as they possibly can. Clearly the creators are trying their best, middle-management I’m sure have long-term plans, and I doubt the powers-that-be want it to fail. But sales have been dropping for years, and neither of them have demonstrated any plan of substance whatsoever to reverse that trend. They both had their moments of attempting to right the ship, and both fell through – the original Marvel NOW! and its immediate follow-ups were major successes, but half their biggest writers left in the wake of Secret Wars and so they reverted to type with endless editorial interference and bullshit crossovers, while DC’s attempt at innovation with DCYou was scattershot at best, clearly born less of a philosophy of “let’s let our best talents try bold new things!” nearly so much as “let’s do weird new things that might grab headlines”. 

Viewed in that light, many of their recent decisions start to make sense; after the New 52 trying to draw in 90s fanboys and maybe a couple teenagers fell through, DC’s explicitly banking on rolling back the clock and appealing to the core fanbase with Rebirth while simultaneously betting everything on the shock value of incorporating Watchmen, while Marvel has fallen back on its regular event-and-relaunch tactics, and if the “Make Mine Marvel” rumors are true, they’ll soon be returning to a predominately white and male cast of headliners with a handful of exceptions (hence why escape hatches were built into almost all of their recent successor characters – Mjolner was prophesied to return to the Odinson before the first issue of Jane Foster’s book, Tony Stark is only in stasis, the Ultimate Universe may or may not be waiting out there for Miles and his cast to return, etc.) They don’t think there’s a new audience to be won, or at minimum they clearly haven’t given any thought to the kind of formatting, publication, narrative or marketing breakthroughs that might let them reach that wider audience (probably part of why they’re so petrified of staying in retailers’ good graces – digital of the way of the future, but they don’t believe they’re going to see that future, therefore they’re sticking to appealing to the base while they can), and so naturally they’re going to the tried-and-true methods of drawing cash out of the existing audience until it all falls apart, by which time everyone currently at the top will have new jobs or be retired.

So that Marvel in particular has been overly contemptuous of progressive elements of their fanbase isn’t shocking. I doubt their leadership of middle-aged guys have any particular sympathy for their viewpoint, and if they don’t see them as a potential pathway to saving the industry either, then it’s not a surprise they clearly see them as a gaggle of mercurial, industry-ignorant whiners, to be discarded once the half-hearted measures at winning them over aren’t enough. And if they’ve decided they don’t give a shit about progressive ideals in the slightest beyond what’s necessary to avoid mainstream attention on their fuck-ups, and they don’t seem to be trying to bring about a workable model for the industry – especially given that they’re at this point unquestionably the secondary caretakers of these characters compared to TV and movies, so these franchises can go on without them – and they’re convinced shock value stunts and events are the only way to draw in dollars while they can, then yeah. Sure. Why wouldn’t they make Captain America a Nazi? To think that’s a bad idea would require meaningfully giving a shit about their own product, or at least thinking that anyone else will in a few years.

As for the Fantastic Four, that’s probably still in Fox’s hands, but I really do hope Al Ewing gets a crack at them someday.

Answering the MANY (dear Lord) questions I’ve gotten on this: NO, there is no work engagement that is so last minute as to not being able to work around a party he’s known about for many weeks. NO, Tony does not owe ANY FAN ANY EXPLANATION at ALL for not going to a freaking party. The people he works with KNOW the real deal and play the game with him (see: BY). Wake up. Also, if he doesn’t want to go to a party, he doesn’t need to travel to the East Coast at all (in fact on Friday his hashtags claimed he’d stay in LA on holiday), and he can EASILY put out no matter which explanation and stay at home in LA.

He CHOSE not to say anything. HE CHOSE to suddenly make it PUBLIC that he is in NYC, when up until Friday he made it public that he would have a “staycation”, home in LA. So start thinking about things. And I DO NOT mean show-wise. (and NO, he wasn’t bloody celebrating any anniversary, before any idiot says that, and he KNEW about the party and this was very last-minute. REPEAT: up until Friday HE HIMSELF said he’d stay in LA).

Also and btw: Has anyone seen him at airports? NO. Has anyone seen him in Central Park? NO. Has anyone seen him in NYC? NO. Always bear in mind that a public narrative is just that, and it doesn’t necessarily respond to truth. It’s possible he was in NYC, it’s equally possible he wasn’t at all.

The only point here is he put out a narrative and he chose to go silent despite knowing many questions would be asked. He knows how to communicate all too well, so this was a deliberate choice, for reasons. Start thinking.

anonymous asked:

could you explain some of the literary or historical references in asoue? ive heard there are lots but i haven't picked up on them, besides reading about how count olaf's appearance is derived from a long ago theater trope

Sure! I’ll see what I can come up with. I’m sort of juggling several things, so this will only contain various fractured documentations, but here we go:

  • The Poes, of course. Edgar, Albert, and their father. When you meet the kids, they are arguing about a Raven, like Edgar Allen Poe’s famous work.
  • Likewise, Eleanor Poe is a reference, most likely, to “Lenore”, the woman lamented in Edgar Allen Poe’s work, The Raven.
  • Dr. Montgomery Montogomery is a man who works with snakes… or, to put it another way, did you enjoy Monty’s Pythons?
  • The children are first seen at Briny Beach, which is a phrase from “The Walrus and the Carpenter” in Alice in Wonderland. (Keep an eye on this one. It comes up later…)
  • The Baudelaires are named after Charles Baudelaire, a famous writer whose own writings could often contain cynical concepts and perspectives.
  • Klaus and Sunny are named for Claus von Bulow and Sunny von Bulow, a married couple famously the center of a court case where Claus allegedly murdered Sunny.
  • Virginia Woolf was an incredible writer who suffered from mental illness. After writing truly great works, she eventually succumbed to depression and walked into a lake with rocks in her pockets, committing suicide. The Virginia Woolfsnake is mentioned among Montgomery’s reptiles. In the show, it’s dangerous because “It can bludgeon you with a typewriter”. This, I’m sorry to say, is nowhere near as clever as the book version, where the Baudelaires are, without context, advised by Monty “Never let it near a typewriter”, leaving the implication that the snake, unsupervised, would write stories so depressing they were a danger to itself and others.
  • Two of the children from the end of the first season are named Isadora and Duncan. Isadora Duncan was a very famous dancer whose beautiful and extremely long scarf was caught in a tire as she got in her car. When the car started moving, her neck was broken. Like Klaus and Sunny before them, these two children were named after a horrifying and fascinating death that became a public spectacle.
  • Damocles Dock, where the Baudelaires first arrive at Lake Lachrymose, is named for the Sword of Damocles. In this story, a person is forced by a king they criticized to dine with royalty while a sword hung over him by a string of unknown strength. Throughout the dinner, the man was terrified that it was a trap and that the sword would fall, killing him. When the dinner was done, the king he mocked told him something to the effect of “And now you know what it is like, every moment of your life, to be a ruler”. As such, the Sword of Damocles is figure of speech that here represents the dread and anxiety that comes from not being quiet sure whether you’re completely safe or a moment away from something truly terrible.
  • Lemony Snicket says that one word a hypnotist used was “Nero”, in order convince someone they knew how to play the Violin. This is a reference to Nero, the Roman Emperor who, according to legend, was so indifferent to the suffering of his people that he literally played the violin to entertain himself while the city was engulfed in flames. (Pay attention to this one, too. It also comes up later)
  • While I’ve been skipping modern pop culture references, it’s fun to point out that many of Count Olaf’s disguises have names that are dead giveaways, such as Captain Sham. Shirley is a reference to Airplane’s “Surely you can’t be serious”. Violet sort of explains that one when she says “Surely, Count Olaf” in the show.
  • Lucky Smells Lumbermill gave out coupons for prosthetic legs at “Captain Ahab’s prosthetics” (name inaccurate, as I don’t have the show up right now). This is a reference Moby Dick, wherein a whale destroys the leg of a man named Captain Ahab.
  • Dr. Georgina Orwell is a reference to George Orwell, author of the book 1984, a story about an overreaching government that manipulates the public with false narratives and significant gaslighting. Georgina is taking a similar, albeit sci-fi approach, when she hypnotizes people.
  • A store at Lake Lachrymose is called “Memento Morris’s Souvenirs”. A famous phrase in Latin is “Memento Mori”, which means “Remember, you will die”. The phrase is a mantra sometimes used to keep people humble and to remember that, at the end of the die, they are a regular person who is no closer to godliness than anyone else.

These are off the top of my head and it isn’t including explicit references, such as Sunny mentioning Tito Puente. Also, it’s only including things mentioned in the show. :)

I hope it helps!

anonymous asked:

Hi Sasha. Hope you have seen Liams picture. But you know, this time I wasn't suprised at all? Like I checked my phone and scrolled through instagram and was like OK so the baby is out now. That's it. I remember with Louis's I was still very suprised with how far Modest would go, now kinda use to it,lol.

Hey nonnie. Yeah, I reblogged it. Absolutely, this was expected. So it’s not shocking. And being a curious person, I’ve been reading about showbiz shadiness for years. I know that unfortunately, real kids get caught up in celebrity bullshit. Louis and Liam are far from the most scandalous. As hard as it is for us to wrap our minds around, the hard truth is that the truth often has very little to do with certain celebs public narratives. And it’s literally been that way for decades. We’re all kinda late to the party because for so long we’ve been wracking our brains trying to reconcile this madness. Like, somehow, legally, morally, ethically, this can’t be allowed to happen and so it must end eventually. And yet, worse has happened and people got away with it.

You know, I just have to be philosophical about it. Both these babygates aren’t gonna end in paternity scandals. And Louis’ situation has persisted a long time.  So these kids, regardless of how they came to be, may be on the record as Louis and Liam’s for the foreseeable future. I feel for the kids. I feel for Louis and Liam because I still believe neither wants to do this. For sure there’s fuckery afoot. And that’s not cool. It’s just kind of…sad.

1D for sure made a deal with the devil. I dunno who or where the exorcist they need is. They need a squad like the people working on taking Trump down. Some angry people in the intelligence community. Some bored people at the State department. Some messy people in Congress. Mix with a few scared people in the White House, some over it reporters and an ex MI-6 agent and maybe we could blow the lid off 1D’s shit. Maybe. Like I said before, Simon Cowell is slicker with his bs than Trump. LOL and *sigh*

anonymous asked:

since babygates 1&2 i've taken a big step away from keeping up to date with the boys and just listen to their music without reading interviews or watching appearances and it's definitely made me less stressed but i'm also sad that whatever segment of the music industry they're in is so toxic that some fans get out of control and cross boundaries or are gaslighted or feel the need to step away and i just hope one day the gross stunts will be ramped way down and they can just live their lives :/

I agree with you 100%, nonnie. 1D’s entire public narrative is a mess. And it’s all because of things that as decent human beings everyone should swerve on: money hunger, prejudice and misogyny.

The do-anything-for-a-buck mentality is what fuels the acceptance of prejudices  that won’t allow these guys to simply work and live in their truth at the same time. And of course, the misogyny is represented by the cruel disrespect 1DHQ has shown the young women lining their pockets from day 1. This is what all these so-called accomplished and seasoned adult professionals have foisted upon what was originally a bunch of kids and their young fans. It’s disgusting.

And this is just another example of why diversity among the people who call the shots is so desperately needed. When you don’t allow everyone to have a seat at the table, shit like this happens. Diversity of sexuality, race and religion end up being treated as negatives–and they absolutely are not.   

So to those who’ve laid the foundation for this fuckery, lemme once again present one of my fave tweets ever:

1DHQ, this means you.

ok so I still have to read a lot of asks, but I don’t want to answer a load about the photoshoot so I’ll address it in one go.

1) beautiful photos.

2) I wish I had an ass like Lauren’s.

3) The MTV piece was very obviously constructed by the 5H team and I can only think that they are explicitly letting everyone know that Lauren is ‘single’ for a reason. I think this means that soon Lauren must be dropping the collab with Halsey (and I guess Steve Aoki) so she needs to be single so that she can be shipped with Halsey for promo.  That’s my guess anyway. I was actually wondering when they were going to ‘put Lauren back on the market’ following the coming out. From a PR stand-point its good for promo and gossip. It’s also good timing as the girls are away working for a while so this punctuated a potential quiet time (along with DWTS).

4) I honestly find it slightly worrying. Most of the time when the PR campaigns have used the girls’ personal lives its mostly worked through guess work and hints (with maybe a couple of exceptions e.g. Austin). This time they are giving specific info and stories. I’m just worried that their PR stuff is going to go into one direction/Taylor swift kind of territory. When you have articles revealing and talking about your romantic history (real or not) in actual specific terms, and not just rumours, thats when I feel it starts getting a bit dark. I hope Lauren can handle having stories about her personal life being purposefully fed to the general public for publicity narratives. My feeling is that she has been able to negotiate quite a lot about the nature of her PR campaigns (e.g. coming out, being able to be politically active, being able to do a stunt with an artsy photo shoot rather than a trashy pap shot). In other words, i think she has a handle on things. But I still worry. 

anonymous asked:

What bugs me the most about z*gi and g*gi is how smug she looks. He looks miserable and not having it but miss I want all eyes on me regardless of who I have to hurt in the process looks delighted. Like the time he was getting mobbed at Versace show and she refused to let go of his hand even for safety reasons and was just there smiling almost laughing 😡

Same here, nonnie. It infuriates me to no end to see her dragging him around with that self-satisfied expression on her face when he’s clearly as uncomfortable as can be mainly for her benefit. I detest seeing that look on his face during these ridiculous ho strolls.

I think that despite the public narrative of how totally in love they are, I sincerely doubt they even really like each other IRL. I also think she resents his half-hearted attempts when they do stunt. Let’s face it, faking it for the cameras is not exactly Zayn’s forte lol. He really struggles to muster even an ounce of enthusiasm when he’s around her and she must be aware how much ridicule they face as a result (Ziglets aside) so she must take some pleasure in his struggle IMO.

Free Zayn FFS!!!!

anonymous asked:

Harry in the public narrative is still seen as a womanizer, that's just how it is. I think hes got that song on there for a reason, people are all "Ooh its about a woman he likes." or "Hes gonna sing about a hot girl !" when its 99% likely to be something about powerful women and its gonna blow minds. Just saying !!

the heteronormativity people are throwing around on this otherwise blessed day astounds me

As time goes on BQ goes more and more mad with power due to Prospitian espionage assassinating the entire Family Militant leaving all their responsibilities on the Family Midnight. BK goes to the battlefield itself to run the military that a ways, BQ and BK’s third partner died of illness/poisoning, and BQ herself is trying to enforce the law of Derse in all Dersite territory.

It’s stressful, but also gives BQ a HUGE power trip over time because part of the job of the now defunct Family Militant was governing the Family Academia (the royal scientists) and determining the funds for their science such as: researching the giant monster carapaces, keeping the clone production space with the attrition rate on Skaia, and, most importantly, researching the Queen’s Ring to prototype and mutate an already living carapace on the genetic level after they’ve already reached adulthood.

Everybody starts to freak out when her experiments start getting flak from the Family Pious and she resolves to just murder them all and put herself in control of the religious doctrine to change the public narrative from “the queen has gone fucking insane and has spat in the eyes of the highest god” to “the queen is of divine heritage and is claiming her birthright by creating her own Envoys.”

Of course by this point, anyone who is part of the rebellion and of Dersite heritage has reactions ranging from shouting BLASPHEMY and breaking tables (HB), laughing their ass off at how fucking stupid she’s being (PS), or actually being kind of concerned for her mental health (DD).



Hi guys - Great news! We finally have an expert opinion on the trademark ordeal. They looked over my post ‘Proof: Management lied to us’ & the prosecution history and answered a few specific questions I had.

The lawyer wanted to remain anonymous but has given me permission to copy and paste their answers here.

This is not only a lawyer but also a lawyer who has years of experience working in intellectual property specifically. This is such a valuable opinion. It is still just one person’s opinion, so don’t take it as fact, but it is a very informed opinion of someone who actually has the expertise to interpret the prosecution history and explain the terms.

I’ll make it easy and start with a summary of points to take from this: (a) The trademark deal doesn’t give LAND much - it’s mostly just about merchandise. (b) The deal doesn’t affect things like Camila promoting 5H. © It looks like they were working under the assumption that Camila was leaving. (d) It also looks like they purposefully prolonged the process so that the registration could be timed for PR purposes.

Meg: Starter questions - 1) What can they get from the trademark deal - is it just merch/sponsorships or music too? 2) Can their contract interfere with it and can the label still take money even though LAND owns it? 3) Can Camila be accused of trademark infringement because of e.g. promoting 5H on social media or wearing merch etc…?


A trademark is meant to be a physical mark designating the origin of something in trade. That’s all it applies to. There is trademark infringement when someone uses a similar mark to imply a similar source and confuse consumers as to the source of the goods or services. In the context of a band, it is relevant to official merch but that’s about it.

It has nothing to do, really, with touring or record sales. Their mark could be used on those things, and they would have to grant a license to the record label and the tour company to use the mark, but that in itself is not worth much because there’s no competition for their name. There aren’t multiple labels competing with each other to get to use their trademark like there are t shirt companies competing to be official 5H t shirts

They already have a record deal that obligates them to produce music through that label. Almost assuredly, one line in that record deal is a requirement that they grant a license for all relevant trademarks. Same for whatever their touring deal is.

And yes, the label can still take money. The label or management make the deals. The trademark is just a small part of that. The deals would require a license and would pay a fee to the owner of the trademark, here, the girls. In theory, if they could withhold the trademark, the deals would fall through because the trademark is necessary for it to be official, but, again, almost assuredly there is a clause in their contract requiring them to appropriately grant licenses to the mark when they make other deals.

The only think not owning the mark would do for Camila is that she couldn’t license the mark out for merch. She can still say she was in the band – that’s a fact. If there is a particular logo, she probably can’t use that (like on her website or something) but stating a fact about her involvement in the band isn’t trademark infringement. And whatever she fails to do – like promoting, etc. – only has to do with her obligations under her record, management and PR contracts. It has nothing to do with the trademark.

Think of a trademark as a seal or a sticker. Whoever owns the trademark gets to decide who has permission to put that seal or sticker on something and designate it as “official.” That’s really all a trademark gives you.

The reason the girls owning their trademark is important (and the boys of 1D) is that no one else can ever officially be 5th Harmony. Their label can’t decide to fire them all and then hire new girls and keep calling the 5th Harmony.

That’s come up with 1D where people wonder whether the boys can leave Syco, reform as another group with a different name, and Syco could create a new 1D. While they can form another group if they want, Syco doesn’t own the 1D trademark, so it can never use that name for anything in the future.

Meg:  So basically the girls could technically refuse to give the label permission to use their mark in order to make money off of sales and touring, but that would only make the deal fall through, and it probably doesn’t apply anyway because their contracts probably have clauses set up for this scenario where they have to give the label the right to use the license?



It’s not nothing, because it means no one else can ever BE 5th Harmony without their permission, but it doesn’t give a lot of tangible rights other than licensing fees for merch and stuff.

Meg: That makes so much sense.

Lawyer: Intellectual property is complicated, but the names of things really give away what they are. A “trademark” is literally a mark for trade. A “copyright” is literally the right to make copies. 

The devil is in the details, but those are the broad strokes.

Meg:  Honest opinion though - I know you can’t judge for sure - but do you think that if the band partnership (without Camila) was formed in dec 2015, the assignment happened in April 2016, and the registration happened in dec 2016 at the same time as Camila left….   do you think they all knew she was leaving?

Lawyer: Yes, or at least they were working under that assumption.

Meg: Yeh thats how i feel - I don’t know much about law but I’m trying to explain to people that these things take a lot of time, effort and preparation.

Lawyer: You can’t just up and quit one day. It takes negotiations and preparations.

[After looking through and working out the prosecution history]

Meg: What do you think about the extensions and the timing? The registration came through 2 days after Camila left. I find that suspicious. They filed an extension request to submit the Statement of Use (SOU). Do you think they were trying to time it right by submitting the SOU in august?


Yeah, I don’t know why they’d do that. It was allowed back in 2014. So they fixed everything by then, they just needed to provide examples of how it was being used. You’re probably right that it was some internal thing that was delaying things. But it’s so weird, because a trademark is easily assignable. There’s no reason not to complete the registration and then just assign it to some other party later once you’ve worked things out. There’s no reason that the party that registers it needs to be the party who eventually ends up with it.

So, Simco could have gotten it registered and then assigned it just to the 4 of them when all was figured out.

Meg: that confirms what I suspected. They basically used the registration date as the big PR event and acted almost as if that was the assignment. But because fans don’t understand the terms, they don’t question it. So basically they ‘saved’ the registration so that they could use it for PR and bring the trademark deal to light.  i.e. saved it for when Camila left to set up a positive publicity narrative for the new 4H era.


That makes sense.

Because I see no other reason for delay. If you had a company that hadn’t done anything yet, putting together the SOU would be hard, but they could have done it easily. There’s no practical reason to delay that.

I think that the assignment in April to just the 4 of them is pretty definitive proof that they knew as of then that C wouldn’t be continuing with them.


Meg: I did have a debate with someone recently who said “its not proof, - they could have added C into the partnership if she decided to stay for another album”. But that just doesn’t make sense to me - surely if they didn’t know it would be the other way round - they would put her in and then take her out if she left.



If you have a 5 person band, the default is to include everyone. Why would you leave her out when she’s part of the status quo at the time?


I hope everyone reads this whole thing carefully. This clears up so much confusion on the deal and the terms. Their interpretation of the timings just from looking at the prosecution history also confirmed a lot of my suspicions. Especially the stuff about prolonging the process so that the registration would happen in late December after C left. I am so grateful to this lawyer for taking the time to look at it and answer my questions. This is a rare piece of gold in the sea of misinformation that is tumblr. 

I think we can safely say that the trademark deal is a little bit of benefit for the girls, a whole lot of PR and a pretty solid chunk of evidence towards idea that Camila’s exit was known and planned way in advance.

Thanks again to this wonderful human being for taking the time to help us confused harmonisers.

Stay woke,


(reblog and spread the info!!!!!!!!!)

reylo, a manifesto pt. II: welcome to the rollercoaster ride to hell

Thanks to everyone for your responses to the first reylo, a manifesto post. It was reinvigorating to know that many of you are as new to fandom as I am–coming into it at a similarly adult age, and just as mildly obsessed.

Before we begin I want to acknowledge my mistake in attempting to define our collective (a very glaring logical error). It’s sufficient to say we’re all people who appreciate Rey and Kylo Ren’s dynamic within The Force Awakens, and that we see it as the first step of many which will define the new trilogy. Whatever anyone says, this isn’t speculation as much as it is fact.

Whether we “ship” it, whether or not the hero/villain dynamic remains, redemption or not, ‘reylo’ is about this relationship being a crux of the new story. It is about the age-old battle of light vs. dark taking on a form new to the films but not to the Star Wars universe. In canon we have it represented in the relationships of Quinlan Vos and Asajj Ventress, Thane Kyrell and Ciena Ree. In Legends we have Mara Jade and Luke Skywalker, Darth Revan and Bastila Shan, and so many other examples in which opposites clash, attract, and then ultimately work together for the greater good of the galaxy. The chemistry and power in this dynamic is infinitely more interesting than that between cousins or siblings–a fact which seems to have been lost on most …

Dead Red Herring

… which brings us to the one other thing that we agree on almost unanimously: the “Rey Skywalker” theory is dead (and beginning to smell, on account of it being a red herring that was put out of it’s misery months ago). 

Originally posted by gameraboy

Most of the arguments supporting it have been deflated with the release of Claudia Gray’s Bloodline. Foremost among the canonical shifts the book brought is the fact that Rey was left on Jakku a long time before Ben Solo’s fall and Luke’s disappearance which had yet to occur 6 years before TFA. All theories of why or how Luke would have abandoned his child in the hands of Unkar Plutt, on a harsh, remote world–or why she thinks of him only as a myth–involve Gordian knots of speculation, deception, mind erasure, and questionable mothers. The simplest solution is the most likely: she is not his daughter.

That won’t stop people from clinging to the desperate hope that it’s true, but it certainly makes it unlikely. The mere fact that most people presumed Rey Skywalker before and after the film should tell you that this plot point was doomed from conception. If this had been the planned twist of the story, it would show up now as a whimper–not a bang. This is not good storytelling, or at least not as the basis for a franchise worth billions.

So while some may feel it’s too early to celebrate the end of this theory-crafting disaster, I sure as hell am going to. For those of us who’ve spent the last 5 months being told we were incest-loving idiots for even questioning it this news is a sweet, sweet victory. All evidence points elsewise, whether you want to believe it or not. 

If I have to eat my hat in one and half years, so be it. It’s enough for me that in the past few weeks we’ve seen the larger Star Wars fan base begin to imagine a story which doesn’t rely on the false premise of Rey’s parentage. As more of the indentured fans acknowledge this possibility we should also begin to see honest and open discussion on what effect this will have on perceptions of the film and its characters by the general public. 

Before this happens, however, I want to discuss where we stand as a fandom.

This small, but dedicated niche of the Star Wars community emerged out of a need to share our interpretation of the film with others–most specifically those who wouldn’t mock us immediately without hearing what we had to say about it. In the past month we’ve seen a gradual shift in the public attitude towards it–but just barely. In a way, it feels like this battle has only just begun.

In the past we’ve dealt with two issues: the “spiral of silence” which naturally quells opinion, and the need to appeal to authority for clarifications on the new canon. Both have worked together, in a way, to stifle our voices.

We know the appeal to authority can only be resolved by the occasional tidbit from The Powers That Be. As we’ve seen over the past few months, every time one of these breadcrumbs is dropped the whole flock gets excited and, inevitably, agitated.

The off-the-cuff statements made by people like J.J. Abrams and Pablo Hidalgo get picked apart until there’s barely anything left before being dismissed as “misdirection” or “misleading.” This response makes sense when we’re dealing with the most tightly guarded, NDA-bound story in film history. If anything, it should make it abundantly clear that we are not going to get the answers we need–or at least not any ones people will sign their souls over for.

So what do we, really, have power over? We can present our theories, our ideas, our thoughts, our interpretations, and our feelings in a clear and logical way. We have the power to stand up for what we believe in–even if it’s as simple and seemingly inconsequential as a different reading of a film.

Hence my question from the end of manifesto pt. 1 remains–and will continue to: how do we take our place within the larger Star Wars fandom as a legitimate faction without compromising the argument that “reylo” is more than just a ship?

I’m going to present a few barriers I’ve seen to this, only to try and spark discussion on this topic. As always–I’m just another person of many. You may not share my agenda, or my experience.  Hopefully you will be interested in adding to it or contradicting it. You’re all a part of this–so many of you much more than I am.

Agree to Disagree

For me, personally, the Tumblr reylo community has been a safe space. Besides the perpetual reposts of NSFW content (enjoyable, of course, but forcing me to hide my phone screen at all times in public) most people in the fandom have approached the topics I’m interested in with intellectual and respectful commentary.

But this little corner of the internet is insular. Homogeneity is comforting even as it can stifle creativity and discourage people from sharing opposing viewpoints. In the worst scenarios it turns people into parodies, repeating the same arguments ad nauseam. This is especially fruitless when directed at those who have no intention of listening.

Originally posted by scarecroe

It’s something I’ve felt very hypocritical of late on, mostly because I’ve waxed pedantic on one medium only to remain silent on all others. But I’ve realized recently that I’ve kept my distance from attempting to represent my viewpoints in a public sphere for a simple reason: the mountain of evidence that I have climbed over the past year isn’t something I’m going to be able to bury others in quickly or concisely. Even if I were blessed with the ability to write a compelling < 500 word argument, the fact that most people will ignore it or deride it is the norm.

Consuming media in today’s age generally means being much too excited for something to come out, processing one’s positive and negative feelings for a few days or weeks, and moving on. A general audience can’t relate to the need to dig through tons of supplementary materials for the little bits of canonical value one needs to shore up theorycrafting bets. The film Prometheus is a wonderful example of why expecting people to experience a story this way doesn’t work. Though we live in an age where trailers give away key plot points and major news networks reveal spoilers we have to assume the average person just doesn’t give a shit.

Originally posted by boysaresuicidal2

Much more than that–while meta-textual content mining is some people’s drug of choice, you can be sure that it is anathema to those who have fixated on their own interpretations as being right.

I’m not limiting this judgement to those who disagree with or dislike “reylo”. Even within our own community we have to combat the entropy that inevitably sets in as we accept one viewpoint over another. Discussions around the #Ashgate and #Reygate events last month (and I will happily continue to support adding -gate to anything as a tongue-in-cheek reminder not to take ourselves too seriously) quickly devolved into how incompetent the writers/creators were in feeding the public misinformation or conflicting narratives.

From an objective view, this minutiae doesn’t really matter. So why does it become end-all be-all for some of us? There’s a simple enough solution: we have to be prepared for differences in our interpretation. Not only that–we should welcome them. Disagreement is what inspires us to create. A stable state generally equals an unchallenged state. This is boring, and if you adhere to the ideal of a Socratic seminar, not good for logical discourse.

Meta is a discussion, not a diatribe. There is always the option to disagree and to do so respectfully and openly. There’s a pithy saying that there are no bad ideas: the real meaning is that it’s easy to criticize. In doing so, we can easily shut down opinions before they are fully formed. It is important for our community to continue to spread the love of discussion. By doing so we’ll drown out the people more concerned with spreading their one-dimensional rhetoric.

On the subject of those loud voices–they aren’t going away any time soon. They are a normal now expected part of fandom culture, and although their behavior can be abhorrent the people behind them are just people. There are very simple and effective ways to deal with them–the first and foremost being to not take them personally, or seriously, unless they deserve it.

Upping the “Anti”

As we’ve witnessed since December–once the initial cacophony of a new fandom begins to fade, a second wave crashes in. As many of these people were unable to find anything to change their minds on their initial takeaway of the film, it’s likely they’ll continue to adhere to their prejudices. They’ll bring their understanding of the material and what they liked about it to the discussion, but unless they are presented with and/or acknowledge past evidence they are going to assume your viewpoint is defined by the same precepts.

Originally posted by xxchanelx

They may like many of the things that you do. Or maybe they won’t like the same things–but are unfortunately so immature they don’t understand that putting effort into hating something shows a degree of obsession and investment far more advanced than the average fan. Regardless of motive, on Tumblr they’ll use your tags, your anon asks, your spaces, and they will dump their vitriol into the ether like screaming marmots. Here’s an example, courtesy of @ohtze

They are young (or old), they don’t know any better (or maybe they do). They are antis, they are us, they are no one. This is the internet: where everyone is wrong, the points are made up, and trolls are hiding under absolutely every rock. If this troubles you, you might need to consider finding a new sphere to operate within. This is not a gentle place, for anyone.

But that does not mean we can’t make it a better place for everyone. Remember, if a person’s arguments have resorted to ad hominem attacks or other logical fallacies, they have already lost the battle. This is true for all parties involved; becoming antagonistic does not bode well for making a point. I suggest not trying to fight fire with fire unless you are absolutely comfortable with the possibility of being burnt. I do however, suggest informed response.

If you are harassed by certain parties, please make sure you defend yourself with date-stamped screenshots of this behavior (bullies cannot delete screenshots) and use the Tumblr report function when necessary to report hate speech, threats, or other violations of community guidelines.

Much more importantly, for those of you dealing with harassment or bullying from without or within the community, now or in the past, I want to send you a very direct message: we’re here with you. If you need to talk or vent or share what you’ve gone through, please feel free to do so–including privately, to me. I will be happy to listen and empathize, and I’m sure many others witnessing this thread will offer the exact same thing. This is a safe space insofar as we create it to be.

It’s Just a Ride

On a final note, let’s remember that you alone can know and understand your love and appreciation for the film and its characters. Don’t let the judgments or doubts of others interfere upon those ideas. Read them, study them, respond to them (if they deserve it) but don’t think for a moment that someone has it figured out better than you. Or vice versa. The moment you assume that power as it relates to someone, is the moment this ceases to be a community and starts becoming a collective. 

We are not the Borg–we are all going to have different voices, opinions, theories, etc. This strengthens our position vs. undermining it because it completely detonates any criticism that we have not considered all perspectives.

And while I understand the need for validation from the creators and creative executives when there is a large portion of the internet directing baseless prattle in your direction, I want to reassure you that such responses have no bearing on a story that is already written.

The marmots will keep on screaming until no one bothers to listen to them. In the meantime, let’s continue to celebrate the effort the fans have put into understanding and extracting information from the film and supplementary materials. I promise you that at least some of it is right. More than likely, we’re ahead of the curve in recognizing the subtext of the story and having an appreciation for it. When the day comes when the general audience is forced to re-evaluate their perceptions, you can be sure they’ll be looking back through the archives to question what it was they missed.

Originally posted by so-sinnlos-wie-mathe

As one last personal note–I am going to freely admit that I have no idea what I am doing in a fandom. I am the magical age most of you that are also new to this have listed: early 30s. I am the unapologetic casual even as I cosplay and seek out autographs from my favorite comics artists. I’d separated myself from the identity of fan–probably because of how much backlash I experienced as a teenager in embodying it.

As I’ve come to realize my own identity now within a fandom, I’ve begun to realize how deterministic and limiting my original assumption of being a fan was. You don’t have to like everything, or agree with everything, or follow everything, or care about everything, to be a fan.

If you are like me, as you slip into this role you’ll grow more comfortable with its linguistics, with this identity and its quirks. And you’ll also grow to resent it, because it will have an entirely different meaning for other people–people who feel the need to tout the longevity or depth of their interest as some kind of measuring stick by which all others must be judged. Like the people who think their personal megalomania can permeate any farther than their computer screen–they are just marmots. Don’t listen to them. Be a fan as you want to be.

Since this has become part of my identity again, my need to share that with other people has grown. I can’t thank you enough for being the funniest, most whimsical, and most welcoming bunch of people I’ve met in the hell that is the internet. With that said, I’m taking a step back for the months of May and June. I’ll be working on a fan-fiction project that is as near and dear to me as writing meta. I’ll be bolstering my understanding of the films and characters and stories others have put so much time and effort into exploring in order to understand their meaning for me.

I largely encourage you to pursue something similar, rather than looking for validation externally or arguing with marmots. But if you feel the need to do so please check out the Reylo Meta Library 2.0 and the wide variety of authors and viewpoints which spiderweb away from these works. We have a fabulous group of people within the TFA fandom who support our community and combat disinformation daily: @starwarsnonsense @bastila-bae @ohtze @emperorpalpantene @seankayos @and-then-bam-cassiopeia @oldadastra @reylosource @starwars-hell @peace-passion-reylo @gwendy85 @thehermitsacedia @leicsfox @millicentthecat @official-reylo  @huntedbyacreature @avenrue @dearmisskitty … to name only a scant few of the amazing people in this community. My apologies if this is a short list on account of it being late and my brain being fuzzy–so please feel free to tag additional awesome people in the comments as an introduction for those new to the fandom and welcome them in joining us in Limbo for the next few years. 

Originally posted by absinthundrosen

We have all made a strong case for our reasons in believing in the principles at work here, whether they are canon or not. I can tell you for an absolute fact that people from all sides of the globe wouldn’t have written close to a textbook length volume of interpretative non-fiction without having a very clear and informed understanding of what they’d experienced. 

Nothing matters so much as much as our experience and enjoyment of TFA and the continuation of the new Star Wars canon. And nothing that happens from here until the credits roll on Episode XI is going to change that. So buckle up and enjoy the ride–this is just a ride after all. 

I’m so glad to be on it with you.