this fandom: anyway lance and plaxum are problematic because lance was grossed out while being kissed by her while she was wearing a jellyfish hat, never mind the fact he had been stung by a jelly fish earlier and they’re probably gross and slimy. how dare he make that face while plaxum was giving him a kiss. how dare he find her pretty when she took off her jellyfish helmet. how dare he—
me: *rolls my eyes so hard in the back of my head that i can no longer see this bs*
How do you think the story would've been affected had Brandon not been killed? Or thought to have been killed but Ned finds him beneath the Red Keep?
Welp. Okay. The madness of King Aerys is an important thing for the history of Westeros in large part because it justifies Robert’s Rebellion. But Aerys’ madness wasn’t all that public until he had Rickard and Brandon killed without trial in front of half the nobles of King’s Landing. That was the LORD & the HEIR of one of the GREATEST houses in Westeros that he killed, without trial in Brandon’s case and without a proper trial in the other cases, which is Important because Aerys just spit in the face of the two things a king is most looked to for - protection and justice. His handling of Brandon is significant, because in killing him he sent a message to the other great houses that he could, and WOULD, kill them and their heirs with impunity if he saw fit to. That’s not even factoring in the horrific way he had them killed, or that he laughed through it. GRRM included Brandon for a reason, and that reason required him to be killed before the plot began.
But I do love ‘what ifs’, so here we go.
Aerys choosing (or being convinced) to keep Brandon a hostage rather than killing him has some ramifications right there. He looks less like a madmen, and that brings less instability to the realm. Now, assuming this version of Aerys still has Rickard killed, and that he still demands the heads of Ned and Robert too, the Rebellion almost certainly still happens. With Brandon alive as a hostage it’s possible Rhaegar has enough to sue for peace once he leaves the TOJ, if Eddard and Robert could both be convinced to see Aerys impeached and Brandon released in exchange for setting down their swords and bending the knee to Rhaegar.
Obviously that has huge implications on the story. Rhaegar is king; Jon is not raised at Winterfell as Ned’s bastard; Brandon Stark is Lord of Winterfell (though his loyalty might be questionable, depending on his treatment as a hostage, and knowing his temperament that could be an issue…); Jaime does not have to murder Aerys to stop the wildfire plot, and is never named Kingslayer; Dany, Viserys, Rhaenys, and Aegon are all alive and not exiled….we just have an entirely different story, not ASOIAF at all.
Either way if Brandon is alive and it’s known that he’s alive, Ned does not marry Catelyn. That means that Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon aren’t born, and again, we have a completely different ASOIAF.
If he’s alive but it’s successfully kept quiet for some reason, the rebellion is carried out the same as in the OT. Ned marries Cat in Brandon’s place, she becomes pregnant with Robb before he leaves to resume the war, Rhaegar dies on the Trident, and Robert is crowned. Presumably Brandon is found during the sack of King’s Landing, and that’s when things start to divert. If Brandon is physically able, I can’t imagine that he doesn’t join Ned in his search for Lyanna, which means there are two Stark men at the TOJ. Brandon can’t claim Jon as his bastard (he’s been a hostage too long) so Ned still has to, assuming Brandon doesn’t forbid it and want Jon exiled to Essos or something. Which I consider….possible, maybe even likely. Lyanna’s dying plea would mean as much to him as it did to Ned, so I’m sure he’d want to see Jon safe, but Brandon and Ned would probably have very different ideas about how best to do that.
Then we have the issue of Winterfell. Brandon is the rightful lord, so where does that leave Ned? Maybe he raises and rules some other Northern holdfast (in the Gift, probably), and the rest of the series can play out somewhat the way it does in the OT. Except that it’s Brandon that calls the banners after Ned’s taken captive in King’s Landing, and possibly (probably) him that’s crowned KITN.
Point is, Brandon being alive is such a wildcard that it’s almost impossible to guess how the story would unfold with him in it. Except to say differently. Very differently.
I’m so confused by seeing all these people hating on Hannigram in one breath for being an abusive relationship, then going on about how they want Clarice to show up in season 4, and how they want to see her and Hannibal together like in the book Hannibal, and I’m just.
Guys, it’s fine if Hannigram isn’t your ship. It’s fine if you’re angry that Hannibal/Clarice was your ship for a long time (like it was mine for over a fucking decade) and isn’t likely to be a thing on the tv series. I was a bit upset myself at first, until I realised that the show is entirely separate from the books, and I can love both ships…
But, if you’re going to go after Hannigram shippers about how abusive it is, and you are a Clarice/Hannibal shipper, you have NO LEG TO STAND ON! Let me first state that I have been and still am a shipper, but their relationship was hella problematic. She’s canonically 30-some years younger than him and their relationship is unbalanced from the start. She needs something from him and has to become vulnerable to Hannibal, share with him her painful childhood secrets before he’ll cooperate with her. All the while he is manipulating her for his own purposes. Yes, he grows fond of her (just as he does with Will in the show), but he’s still using her, all the same.
Okay, so moving on to the book Hannibal. Yo, bro, have you even READ it??? Dude, he kidnaps her, and *tries to brainwash her into believing that she is Mischa* okay? He uses psychotropic drugs on her (like Will) and behaviour therapy, and tries to make her think she is his sister come back to life. He fucking digs up her father’s bones, cleans them, and lays them out on a bed and leaves her alone with them. OKAY? IDK if y’all only watched the movie? Or didn’t understand what was happening in the book, but LET’S BE CLEAR. Then, when it doesn’t work, when Clarice tells him he’s going to have to keep Mischa within himself as she’s kept her father within herself, she asks him if he was breastfed, and if he resented having to give up his mother’s breast to Mischa when she was born. He replies that he would have gladly done so, though he doesn’t recall, and then Clarice removes her breast from her dress, places wine on her nipple, and brings his mouth to it–she’s symbolically breast feeding him, guys, and tells him he won’t have to give up this breast–like what EVEN?
The fundamental difference in character between Clarice and Will, is that Clarice is an upstanding officer of the law with a strong moral compass who is determined to see justice served. Will, on the other hand, has always had a darkness within him that he’s tried to contain. His work is not done out of moral obligation, but because of the empathy he feels towards the victims of violent crime, and more importantly, his efforts to distance himself from the empathy he feels towards their killers. So for Will to fall in love with and join Hannibal, he is merely giving in to a part of himself he’s tried to ignore his entire life. He is being true to his nature. For Clarice to be with Hannibal, he must brain wash her and remove something that is essential to her character for her to be able to be with him. While he does not succeed at turning her into Mischa, she is no longer Clarice Starling at the end of the book, either.
Again, I’m a Clarice/Hannibal shipper in the books, and I was disappointed the movie decided to change that bit dramatically, and I was wary about Will being the main character of the series, but of course it won me over. Will’s relationship with Hannibal is more balanced and equal. Though it begins with the same manipulation we see with Clarice, Will is able to resist Hannibal’s efforts and return on equal-footing. They’re both super problematic, troubling, abusive relationships, though, let’s be real. Don’t come at me on your high horse about Hannigram and then tell me how great Clarice/Hannibal is, bro.
Jade doesn’t owe Dave and Karkat affection because they had crushes on her when they were 13 and in this current day and age where media struggles to portray women in a way that allows them to act independently of and obtain fulfilling arcs that aren’t deeply and irrevocably tangled up with any of their primary male relationship(s), the fact that these two boys that put Jade on a pedestal in their youth are now an important yet not essential part of the map of her full character is incredibly refreshing.
In a body of canon that, for example, includes a scene where Jade Harley literally explicitly says that she hopes Karkat’s feelings toward her aren’t romantic, it’s weird to me that a subset of the fandom continues to insist a polyromantic interpretation of that trio is the only canon, correct and in some cases non-Problematic™ point of view. Idk.
The world beyond the bubble of Homestuck fandom still struggles to give women agency and endings that don’t revolve around finding their happy romantic ending with a man. It also struggles with showing men in healthy, happy, romantically exclusive relationships. Modern society also still struggles with the idea that men and women can be friends without romantic or sexual attraction and tension constantly at play within the dynamic.
That both Karkat and Dave harbored serious crushes on Jade is canon. That Jade semi-reciprocated Dave’s in loose fashion (as shown by her dating Davesprite) and did NOT reciprocate Karkat’s is also canon. That Karkat and Dave both exhibit possessive qualities and are prone to jealousy is canon.
If you choose to take this jumble of things and ship them poly that is your choice. I get it. I’m not going to begrudge anyone their AU, or smudging things around to create a dynamic that you personally identify with, that’s a personal choice and go whole hog, sure. I think everyone has some things they prefer to look the other way on in their favorite bodies of work in order to facilitate an interpretation that they personally like better. That’s normal and cool and part of what makes fandom unique and transformative.
But that’s the key – transformative.
People often leverage the word “canon” like it means the same thing as “valid.” It doesn’t. Your invented dynamic that allows djk to have the dynamic you want for it is valid in the context of you and your group’s unique invention. You don’t need to justify it to me or to anyone. But if you invent something and then bristle at other subsets of the fandom not sharing your invention in favor of deferring to the text actually presented to us… all I can think is, what did you expect?
I don’t know.
And that isn’t even touching on this insistent I see places that somehow NOT inserting Jade into that relationship is indicative of a misogynist opinion or a disregard of Jade’s own stated wishes. I could talk for days about how I personally find it much more empowering to think of Jade as a character who was presented early on like her relationship with at least one of the popular male main characters was inevitable, like so many other female leads, but then – surprise! Her arc culminates in an appreciation for connection with all of her relationships, not just the perceived romantic ones with Popular Male Character #1 or #2. And I also find the message that boys can remain friends and even be best friends with women – including women they’ve had crushes on in the past – and have it not be weird or divisive or cause problems in their relationships so important.
I know this is tumblr, and that 101 stuff seems so basic and unimportant, but in the world outside this hell site, those basic things are still disregarded by popular media every single day.
I love Homestuck so much for providing us with alternative paths for common character tropes just as much as I love it for all of the amazing queer representation it gives us, even if the text itself was vague in places it should not have been and the ending itself was clumsily handled (an opinion I have talked at length about having and won’t go into here.)
So I guess I just want to conclude this with: Go and ship DJK if you wish, that is totally cool, but please don’t circulate this opinion that I and others like me are somehow disregarding canon for problematic reasons, that we are misogynist, that we are ignorant of queer struggles, and so on, and please try to understand that when we talk about “canon,” we are not passing judgement on the “validity” of someone’s desire to see healthy poly representation.
“We go out for drinks, and this happens,” Donnie muttered irritably, shifting the ropes tied
around his wrists. “And they weren’t even alcoholic this time.”
“In Leo and Raph’s and my own defense-” April said, also
tugging at her bound wrists. “-none of us knew that we weren’t supposed to
climb that particular statue. And it’s you, Casey, and Mikey who wandered off; we
were just trying to find you!”
“Wonderful job of that. You found us, and then we all got
arrested,” Donnie said dryly.
“I said we were sorry!”
“You did, they didn’t,” Donnie nodded at his older brothers,
who were slumped against one another unconscious. Casey and Mikey were still
conscious, for all the good that did; the two of them also struggling against
the rough rope that they’d all been trussed up with.
Around them, the majority of the village they’d stopped down
in was gathered. In hindsight, it may not have been the best idea to pick a
planet that still had tribal rule, and
warrior code. Donnie didn’t like the look of blades swinging from the aliens’
waists, or the sizable masses of their arms.
Earlier, he’d thought it was all very fascinating. A bipedal
species with two sets of arms, claw like nails, and fierce looking tusks jutted
from their mouths. A genetic marvel from where he came. They also resembled ‘World of Warcraft’ characters, and
never let it be said Donnie wasn’t interested in the gaming community, for all
its grievous errors and rampant biasness.
Though now, as the chief of the village called to order her
assembled followers, they seemed more intimidating than fascinating.
why antis do the thing: being an anti with problematic canon
why do antis stay in fandoms where the canon material itself is problematic? Relatedly, why do antis stay in fandoms where the creators support - or fail to denounce, at least - bad ships and nasty shippers?
Most antis seem to have a funny little disconnect between mass media creations and fandom creations. Despite insisting on purity in their fandom spaces, antis will consume mass media-created works that canonically contain terrible things that they regularly fight against: incest, adult/teen relationships (‘pedophilia’ in anti parlance), noncon/dubcon, etc.
How can they do this?
In my experience: Antis hold fandom to a higher standard than the mass media on which fandom is based.
Fandom tumblr and social justice tumblr heavily overlap because fandom is where many queer, marginalized people go for acceptance and refuge. Additionally, much of English-speaking fandom comes from regions where LGBT and women’s histories are very undertaught. The direct result is that many antis have received the large majority of their social justice education in fandom spaces.*
That makes it only natural that antis would expect fandom spaces to be better at things like maintaining safe spaces, prioritizing queer/LGBT stories, prioritizing PoC stories, etc. than the very media that caused a fandom to exist in the first place. In the eyes of an anti, fandom should be fixing the canon problems by cleansing fandom space of the canon problems and patching those problems with good fanon. Fandom certainly shouldn’t be taking the bad parts of canon and running with them to ship or create things that are less than wholesome and positive.
Fandom should, as a collective, know better.
Of course, reality is that fandom - like the media it’s based on - is made up of fallible humans who are steeped in the same culture as the media creators, and therefore fandom is generally just as prone to the same problems, both real (cultural misogyny and racism/bias towards white male characters, etc) and imagined (dark themes and fanworks, heavy focus on romance/sex, not always shipping the Most Correct ship, etc). This infuriates antis, who then set about fixing it by yelling at the bad parts of fandom until it shapes up, and often to the exclusion of creating or encouraging fan content that would meet their standards of correctness.
In contrast, mass media creators generally get a pass for reasons that are likely as varied as the antis that cut them the slack, but in general, mass media creators - particularly white, cis, male mass media creators - just aren’t expected to know as much about activism. Antis don’t bother to try to fix them because they won’t even understand what antis are getting up in arms about in the first place.
Other prominent reasons for cutting mass media creators relative slack:
they don’t respond as strongly as fan creators do, if they respond at all, to anti pressure/harassment, and calling people out isn’t as interesting/doesn’t feel productive if the target doesn’t react
antis, like all humans, are prone to double-standards, and mass media creators are put on a pedastal that fan creators are not
antis feel that as long as they recognize the problems with the canon work and don’t interact with them in fandom it’s 'safe’ to be in problematic fandoms
It is, however, worth noting that if a creator shows the slightest awareness of social justice issues but in some way falls short of anti-shipping purity standards, antis will frequently go after the creator as brutally as they go after fellow fans. Additionally, antishipping tends to be more prominent in mass media fandoms where the canon content is socially aware, like Steven Universe.
*in 2013-2014, social justice education on tumblr took a very hard, very sudden turn directly into REG territory. About the same time, anti-shipping culture sprang up. Coincidence? I think not.
So it’s pride month and everyone seems to be listing their favorite movies that have LGBT+ representation so I decided to do the same. My pride month movie recommendation is Lawrence of Arabia.
It has all the components of a movie that tumblr loves
A largely poc cast:
A poc as a main character:
Problematic shit to discuss:
Canon asexual representation in a main character:
A gay interracial couple as confirmed by the director:
Look how cute they are:
Also, it’s a big deal because it came out in the 60′s when the Hays Code was still in use and it was an incredibly bold move of David Lean (the director) to give two main characters in a major motion picture huge amounts of homoerotic subtext. Then once the Hays Code was out of use, he confirmed their sexualities.
And a 97% Rotten Tomatoes score! Basically you should all watch it because it’s a very good movie and I think you’d all like it. It’s an old-ish movie, but a very good one. It’s really long, too (lots of content), but you can watch it in two parts (there’s an intermission).
aah what a good day to remember that keith is 16 and visualizing him in sexual situations, especially with an adult, is disgusting and also illegal wow breathe that fresh air
Ah, what a day to see people like you still think fictional characters = real people.
But okay I’ll bite I’m in a fantastic mood. All the sheith and shaladin ships made my day so now I’ll share my happiness with you whether you like it or not.
So you still believe Shiro is over 20+? First off, it’s your HC so you do you idc but you’re trying to force me to see it YOUR way? Huh, you don’t care that I don’t agree and sent a hate mail to showcase your intolerance of my opinions in MY blog? Whoa so petty of you like chill man go take a break or something before you hurt yourself with your shitty self-entitlement issues.
And wow, I guess Dreamworks and VLD’s official statements about “5 teenagers” are wrong in ALL of their SOURCES. Whoa I wonder why they don’t ever talk about or even acknowledge that disgusting cringy video ya’ll worship like the Lord itself. Hmm~?
Now throwing your shitty logic back at you.
If fictional characters = real people. Then I cannot believe how disgusting YOU are for visually sexualizing Keith (who you think is 16) a poor UNDERAGE minor with another UNDERAGE minor like Lance or Hunk or Pidge in obscene SEXUAL BEHAVIOR.
“B-But it’s okay because th-they are around th-the same age!” You cry out as you try to justify your double standards between your (deem to be) “good” ship versus my (you think is) “bad” ship.
Wow you legit just implied you like underage porn with underage kids like fucking gross that’s illegal too btw wtf gtfo you voyeuristic pedo. THINK OF THE FUCKING CHILDREN YOU PRICK HOW DARE YOU DO THIS TO KEITH HE’S ONLY 16 WTF YOU LIKE SEEING HIM GETTING VIOLATED BY ANOTHER 16 OR WORSE 17 YEAR OLD? THOSE ARE KIDS YOU’RE LOOKING AT GROSS!1!1
See that? Now I sounded just like you–good thing I don’t believe a single lick of your shitty bullshit or care about fictional characters in sexual or other types of situations since fictional characters =/= real people. No real person is being forced into a relationship with another real person. It’s just 2+ fictional fake people getting together in a fake universe in a fake storyline. If you can’t handle that then you need help or parent-lock your pc to stop you from seeing anything fictional online.
I ship whatever I want. And I love shipping Shiro with nearly every single character in Voltron so I’ll keep doing that thanks. I never cared about height/weight/age/race/etc of characters–just their personality and color schemes in comparison to other characters. Nor am I shallow or petty to attack other shippers over their opinions or HCs in their tags or blogs like you.
The reason why I don’t care is also simple: it’s because I personally do not let fiction AFFECT my sense of reality too drastically or warp it dramatically like you. That’s why I know how to tell the difference between the fiction I consume from the reality I live in.
Now when will you?
Because I’m still waiting for you antis to go attack Disney for showing little kids all the UNDERAGE Princesses getting into relationships and even marrying ADULT PRINCES in their movies like it’s totally okay. (And here’s the thing: it IS okay because it’s all FICTIONAL holy shit Disney knows the difference too!)
So why don’t you scurry on off and pretend your ship isn’t problematic in your shitty logic while I enjoy my ships that I know aren’t problematic in canon OR fanon. Because sending hate to shippers only proves how insecure you are in your ship and how petty and jealous you are about mine.
And it shows you fool so please keep sending more proof that my ships are just as fantastic like the decent shippers that ship them are–for we constantly are debunking your bs while still creating new fanart/fanfics to celebrate our ships.
Whoa can you imagine though? You’re chilling and in a great mood when suddenly an anti sends you hate in your ask like as if their opinion is the word of God and you are to obey and listen to them no questions asked–forget your own opinions and HCs while you’re at it.
Yeah right as if I ever will, especially to an anti, you are a shitty person and your opinion that you are trying to shove in my face is now shitty too.
Now begone from my blog and go pretend I didn’t just kick your arse–denial and immaturity seem to be the only things you’re good at so get to it.
Remember when people rejected the “Rey is a Skywalker” theory because it took away the agency of her just being an incredibly powerful and competent character in her own right instead of “oh she’s related to X”?