poisoned lovers

Imagine that you’re the Princess of Vanaheim. When your father dies, your stepmother wants to kill you; so she could get the throne to herself. She hires an assassin for that, but you escape to Nidavellir, the realm of dwarves. You hide yourself in the house of a dwarf family, who were kind enough to take you in and protect you. 

Time passes and your stepmother finds out, where you’re hiding. She asks help from dark magic and while the dwarf family is at work, she takes the form of an old dwarf woman, and poisons you. When the family comes home, they find you on the floor in a deep coma and lay you down on the bed. 

On the same day, Loki and Thor visit Nidavellir. Loki senses dark magic and concerned by it, follows to where it leads. He finds the little house and within it, you. He is stunned by your beauty the moment he lays his eyes on you and does everything to get the dark magic out of you. After he removes the magic, he does CPR to you and successfully wakes you. 

You reclaim your throne, behead your stepmother and rule Vanaheim side by side with Loki.

Things to Note about Harley, Ivy, and the Joker
  • Harley is a victim and the way the Joker treats her is horrible. She doesn’t deserve the things he puts her through.
  • Harley is a villain and chose to be with the Joker in the first place. She was morally ambiguous from the start and was not completely innocent.
  • Ivy deeply cares about Harley and wants the best for her. She wants her to see the Joker for what he truly is.
  • Ivy has a general hatred of humanity that sometimes gets projected onto Harley. She is also easily irritated and is constantly annoyed by some of Harley’s behavior.
  • The Joker is an utter sociopath who is willing to kill people without hesitation and mostly sees Harley as a willing patsy.
  • The Joker does care on some level about Harley even if it isn’t the way someone with a normal emotional temperament would love someone.
  • Harley and Ivy have good qualities and are not completely evil people. These qualities should not be ignored.
  • Harley and Ivy are highly dangerous and violent criminals who have killed without remorse. They are not normal people and should not be expected to act as such.

None of the facts mentioned in this post are mutually exclusive. The sooner we can all accept that, the sooner we can all get along.

Why is no one talking about Valentine (“Michael”) and Jace’s training session?

He told this boy he was weak.  

He told him he wasn’t a good enough, that a true shadowhunter wouldn’t let himself get hit, even while injured.  

He beat him over the frickin head with a training mitt, jabbed him mercilessly, catching him at his weaknesses on purpose.  

He made Jace exert himself, not giving him the chance to heal, or to rest (which is the whole point of Clary leaving him behind).  

Then after all of that, he fed his poisonous teaching into Jace’s mind, convincing him again, after so many years, that love destroys, that the man he raised him to be was supposed to be special, different.  

A fighter, not a lover.   

This show didn’t just tell us about the parental abuse and trauma Jace experienced in his childhood.  It showed us.  

Joker Vs Ivy

Submitted by @two-in-the-belfry

I’ll try and explain this as best I can without going too deep (it would take forever for me to get my thoughts in order and type them up). This is just my brief interpretation of these relationships and I’m interested to hear how other people see them.

I ship both Joker/Harley and Harley/Ivy. If I had to choose, I’d say I ship Harley/Ivy a bit more; that said, I’d never want Harley to leave Joker for good to be with Ivy. How I see it, Harley will almost always choose Joker over Ivy and Ivy will almost always choose her plants over Harley.

A lot of Joker and Harley’s relationship has been covered more eloquently by other people, so I won’t dwell on it too much. Harleen became Harley Quinn for Joker; whether people like it or not, he is a vital part of her identity. She chooses to be with him and she likes him the way he is. Joker, for all his treatment of her, does love her in his own way. It is an abusive relationship, I don’t think anyone will deny that; however, it goes deeper than that. Harley has a masochistic streak and seeks out completely domineering personalities like the Joker’s. Does that mean she likes being hit and insulted? Not necessarily, but she can’t help but be drawn to people who treat her like that (not to mention, when Joker becomes a more “traditional” loving boyfriend in one of the comics, Harley rejects him).

Enter Ivy. In a lot of ways, Ivy is very similar to Joker: she’s smart, dominant, controlling, and short-tempered. I think she took a shine to Harley because she saw a lot of her younger self in her and thought she could teach her how to break out of that state of being. She loves Harley and isn’t as physically abusive as Joker; however, she is emotionally and verbally abusive to her. A lot of people forget that Ivy isn’t stable: she’s significantly mentally ill just as Joker and Harley are. She loves her plants, but has no qualms genetically mutating them and putting them in harms way for the sake of furthering her own goals. This same mindset applies to Harley.

When it comes down to it, Harley loves Ivy, but Joker is a huge part of her identity. She goes to Ivy when her and Joker argue, when he kicks her out, or when he’s in Arkham and she’s not. Joker eventually comes to miss her and call her back to him, and Harley almost always goes. Ivy lets Harley into her life when Harley seeks her out and will occasionally break out of Arkham with Harley when she desires human interaction, but her plants are a huge part of Ivy's identity and she’ll almost always choose them over Harley. There are some exceptions to this in various comics - Bombshells comes to mind - but this is the bare basics of how I see these relationships.

Now, this is one opinion that people should heed. Despite the preference for Harley/Ivy, you still recognize that it isn’t completely healthy and that Harley will never truly let go of the Joker. And the fact that Ivy still prioritizes plants over all else no matter how much she really cares about Harley. She can grow out of it, but it’s not going to be to the extent you would see in the new continuity (Nu52/Rebirth).

People need to have more of an understanding of who Ivy is outside of her relationship with Harley. And it’s important for people to realize that you can see the ship is unhealthy and still prefer it. Romanticizing the abuse isn’t a good thing, but ignoring it isn’t much better. And that’s what the writer of this post gets.

Joker vs. Ivy

[DISCLAIMER: Read the whole post before coming to argue with me on this.]

So here are some of the responses I got for the post. I wanted to show various opinions on the two ships and how people view them. I also wanted to know where my followers stand on the topic. I’ll show the responses and then post my thoughts about them.

Not exactly the turnout I expected, but it still has some good responses.

One very big reason I made the Female Sociopath List. Showing that women can actually be as cruel as men. A fact that seems to be lost on a large portion of users on this site. Ivy may care about her, but she is definitely not innocent by the sheer virtue of being female. (And I’m glad that it’s a woman who’s the one to point it out.)

When written properly, she is still very cold and emotionally distant at best. And to say that she grew out of it in the new continuity is inaccurate since there is no indication that Ivy ever acted that way towards Harley. It’s not character development at all. It’s a complete change in the character.

I think that this is an important thing to note when dealing why a lot of people are against Harley/Ivy these days. While there are some homophobes against it, not everyone who is against it is a homophobe. Some of them are even a part of the LGBTQ+ community. (Like this asker, who recently informed me is bisexual.)

The reason they’re against it is that it reduces Ivy’s character to nothing more than “Harley’s own personal cheerleader” as @unicorniolerdo puts it. For all this talk of Ivy being a complex character more than just a sex symbol, a lot of those same people don’t see her as anything more than the loving girlfriend. Pre-reboot, they would’ve liked the ship, but thanks to the fandom perpetuating the simplification of Ivy and the comics following the same route, they hate it.

And in the same vein, not everyone who ships Joker/Harley condones abuse, Like this response says, it’s the partners-in-crime dynamic that the two have together and Harley’s descent to villainy that’s interesting to people.

That is also an excellent point. Despite my preference for Joker/Harley, I admit that he’s a monster whereas Ivy has more redeeming traits. That does make her a better partner. However, better doesn’t mean good. And I’m glad that you acknowledge that despite being the better option that Ivy is still unhealthy.

Another good response. Thank you, @safehaven1097. And it brings up two good points.

  1. The whole Nu52/Rebirth version of Harley/Ivy is incredibly forced, something I brought up earlier with unicorniolerdo’s response. It strips away everything they are and puts them in this very OOC version of their relationship. And the fact that the fandom perpetuates it to a certain extent doesn’t help.
  2. It makes the presumption of innocence on Harley’s part as if she isn’t a violent criminal. And the fact that she still knew that the Joker was a violent criminal but still joined him anyways. She may be being abused, but she is doing some terrible things on her own accord. And that’s in large part due to the point the first anon brought up: the idea that females can do no wrong. She may not be completely evil, but she is no saint.

It also mentions the fact that the Joker does love her in his own twisted way. While I prefer the complete psychopath interpretation for the Joker, meaning he would be incapable of love, he still does find ways to love her. It’s not at all healthy, but he does “love” her in his own way.

A great response from @two-in-the-belfry doesn’t fit on this post, but I’ll link to it and have it as a separate post. And a good thing to note is that she’s in favor of Ivy. Click here to see it.

for wang so hae soo is life.. his eyes full of anger, pain, and love says it all.. he’d rather die a million times than have her get hurt.. he’s that kinda fool that would drink poison, defy a king for the girl he loves.. 

K but having this account on this site makes me very happy and although I seem upset all the time I’m very happy to have each and every one of you here and I’m happy to have spoken to so many amazing people on this site

Mother Nature’s poisonous plants to humans...

Monkshood (Aconitum napellus)

The most poisonous part is the roots, though the leaves can pack a punch too. Both contain a neurotoxin that can be absorbed through the skin. Early symptoms of poisoning are tingling and numbness at the point of contact or severe vomiting and diarrhea if it has been eaten. In 2010, a woman poisoned her lover using this plant. Apart from causing severe gastrointestinal upset, the poison slows the heart rate which can result in death.

Giant hogweed (Heracleum mantegazzianum)

These weeds are massive and pretty hard to miss when they are towering over you.  The sap of the giant hogweed plant is phototoxic; when the contacted skin is exposed to sunlight or to ultraviolet rays it can cause severe skin inflammations. Initially, the skin colours red and starts itching. 

Blisters form as it burns within 48 hours. They form black or purplish scars that can last several years. Hospitalization may be necessary.  The presence of minute amounts of sap in the eyes can lead to temporary or even permanent blindness.

The manchineel tree (Hippomane mancinella) 

Found in northern South America up to the Florida Everglades and throughout the Caribbean. In some parts of its range it’s painted with a cautionary red cross. They grow little green fruits that were once called the ‘little apple of death’ by Columbus. 

The milky sap produced by this tree contains the powerful irritant phorbol. Just brushing past it can leave you with horribly scalded skin. Sheltering beneath it in a tropical shower can be disastrous too because even the diluted sap can cause an extreme rash.  Burning down these trees is also a bad idea. The smoke from a burning manchineel can temporarily blind a person and cause significant breathing problems.  While the effects are unpleasant, skin contact with this tropical tree can’t kill you. The real death threat comes from eating its small round fruit.  Ingesting the fruit can prove fatal when severe vomiting and diarrhea dehydrate the body to the point of no return.

Ricinus communis

Now well known thanks to Walter White in Breaking Bad. This plant is used to make caster oil.  After the laxative oil has been extracted the remaining residues of its mottled brown seeds contain a potent cocktail of toxins. 

Ricin kills by interfering in cell metabolism, the basic chemical processes needed to sustain life. The creation of essential proteins is blocked, leading to cell death. Casualties can suffer vomiting, diarrhea and seizures for up to a week before dying of organ failure.