Sinnerman: A not so Mini meta post anymore...
Due to my time restrictions but my desire to write this I decided that a quick meta post was in order before the weekend and certainly before 3x02. Yet be warned that this might turn a bit longer that I expect to myself…
We have several clues on who Sinnerman might be and the good thing is that we can think outside the box with Lucifer the show. This is not Supernatural and so we have a mythos to rely on which comes from 150(!) comic-book/graphic novels!
So let’s begin with the clues from the interviews:
What makes the Sinnerman a different kind of antagonist than ones we’ve seen before?
Modrovich: He’s a badass. But what you also find is that he does have a hidden history with some characters in our show that come out and Lucifer has to face off against.
Henderson: We look at him like a bizarre reflection of Lucifer. We learn in an upcoming episode that he also gives out favors, but his are a little bit more nefarious. When this guy gives out favors, you’re really dreading the payment that you’ll have to give. So it’s sort of the Devil facing a dark reflection of himself.
What can you say about the Sinnerman’s intentions in kidnapping Lucifer?
Henderson: The Sinnerman’s the kind of person who knows that putting angel wings on the Devil will only drive him deeper in the other direction. So Lucifer, whether he likes it or not, is being manipulated.
Modrovich: And that Sinnerman has a motivation in taking Lucifer into the desert that’s other than the wings. He has this specific motivation that we will reveal to you throughout the entire season. He has a personal reason.
“Our friend Lieutenant Pierce suggests to Lucifer that he knows about the Sinnerman and they start to collaborate together in this tangled web that we weave in Season 3,” Ellis reveals to TV Guide.
HENDERSON: Yeah, and at the end of the first episode, we get this first clue as to who this person might be, and realizing it might be a darker force than he’s encountered previously.
To Summarise the above Sinnerman:
1) Has hidden history with some characters in our show - Meaning more than one. Pierce for sure but also Lucifer apparently.
2) We look at him like a bizarre (dark) reflection of Lucifer - Is that even possible to be darker than Lucifer himself I will say yes because I have a few theories on that but you will have to scroll further down for them.
3) He gives out nefarious favours with high stake payments - This alone gives us a hint on what or who we are looking for.
4) Sinnerman knew how to give Lucifer his wings and that it would cause Lucifer to act in a certain way - Meaning not only he has the knowledge of how to handle and manipulate divinity but also knows Lucifer… Really knows Lucifer…
5) Sinnerman gave Lucifer his wings for a certain reason which Henderson might have revealed above. He has a personal reason to do that… - This info again limits the suspects quite a lot but never ever forget that this is not a show based on the angels we know but its foundations are in a mythos woven by Sandman and Lucifer the comics…
6) Finally, Marcus Pierce will have to admit that he knows about Sinnerman which will lead to a weird partnership with different agendas between Lucifer and Marcus.
7) It is given by Henderson as a darker force Lucifer has ever faced before…
What we know from the show and most importantly 3x01:
(At this point of the post I realised it was never meant to be a small one *sigh*)
He was just a routine gig.I was gonna swap him for you, but when I went to pull you out of the van, you you had friggin' wings, man!
What we know from the kidnapper is that he just had to get him out of the van not that he actually kidnapped him! So that means that we may have a three-act play.
Lucifer when he is contemplating how he was kidnapped he says “…-how were they able to render me unconscious? Either they used some kind of celestial weapon, or the detective was nearby.”
He never thinks that there might have been a celestial being but we saw the weapon they used so we should at this point leave out Chloe’s presence near the hospital out of the picture and focus on that the kidnapper might have indeed used something of celestial origin… As we know from the piece celestial toys were left on earth along with a Summerian (Assyrian really…) manual…
The second is how did he get his wings? Well, here we have again Lucifer’s reasoning to play with although I don’t agree with that much it gives me again hint: “Did my Father give you some kind of totem? A talisman? - What?”
At this point, the writers through Lucifer give us another good hint and it is closely connected to the next quote but seriously think about it… In Lucifer’s reasoning, an object can hold mystical powers enough to give him back his wings. In not so many words, magic is getting into the Lucifer (Tv Show) mythology finally… Divine power is one thing but infused and transportable as magic can be a complicated notion to conceive and handle yet…
And I don't know your dad. Unless, is your, is your dad the Sinnerman?
I was rewatching that scene but I wonder if the guy had made the connection with Lucifer’s insistence that some kind of dark magic for the lack of better word was in the mix. Funny… because why would a man who knew Sinnerman assume so easily that a feathered Lucifer could be the son of Sinnerman if Sinnerman did not hold a certain unearthly charisma himself? Of course that’s just speculation.
Finally, in 3x01 even Lucifer acknowledges that:
At first, I thought it was a an emissary on Earth working on Dad's behalf, but then, the more I think about it, the more I think maybe this isn't our Father who art in Heaven at all. But something much, much darker.
The above is actually a pretty good connection link to the comics… But anyway Lucifer says this is something much, much darker and Amenadiel’s expression was giving away something the first time I watched the episode but I cannot be sure. Still, Amenadiel’s not so obvious reaction had me thinking that as the firstborn in the show he preceded Lucifer and knew quite a few things from an era before the light aka Lucifer was born… Although we do know that Mum had the same power aka to illuminate the universe…
A clue from Twitter yesterday from Ildy had me thinking again of the usual suspects but you have to be aware of something. I can only speculate on comic characters or characters that may be based on the comics. Certain elements from the show appear on and off in the tv series like the “space vagina” That was actually taken from the first issues of Lucifer and is shown near the end as well.
So Ildy says that something might have indeed escaped Hell… Hmmm… What we can also speculate is that as Marcus is hunting down Sinnerman, this season’s bad guy only recently found his way to L.A. but the second season would have been enough for him to grow out of favours and establish a mob persona strong enough to get to L.A. and target Lucifer when Mum was gone…
We might even suspect that Mum was but a diversion for Lucifer, Sinnerman created for him to make sure he was safe before he started plotting…. Of course, we cannot speculate everything. I’m sure that the writers have come up with some crazy and absurd details I cannot speculate about but that’s the thing, I can get to the comics and try to see who the usual suspects might be…
Right now I have two comic book, inspired perhaps than transferred from the comic book universe to the show, characters that might be Sinnerman. And then a third speculation…
The first but not the best candidate for Sinnerman’s real identity is Dumas. I’ll just copy paste his info here:
Duma is a fallen angel from the DC Vertigo series The Sandman. Before The Sandman
Duma’s name means “silence”, and he is based on the angel Duma from Jewish mythology. In those tales, he is the angel of silence and death’s stillness. According to these same stories, he is the guardian of Egypt and the prince of vindication. Based on this, one could speculate that he was the angel who killed the firstborn Egyptians in Moses’ time. Some sources also name him a “Prince of Hell”.
The Zohar, a book of Jewish mysticism, describes his position in Hell as such that he had “tens of thousands of angels of destruction” under him, and that he was “chief of demons in Gehinnon with 12,000 myriads of attendants, all charged with the punishment of the souls of sinners.”
Dumah is also the name given to the guardian of the 14th gate, through which the goddess Ishtar passed on her journey to the underworld in Babylonian mythology. Dumah may or may not be related to Duma.
In The Sandman
In Season of Mists, we find that Lucifer has closed down Hell in frustration, and given the key to Dream. Eventually, after much squabbling between various gods, Duma and Remiel are assigned to assume control of Hell, and Duma accepts this.
After The Sandman
Following the end of The Sandman series, Remiel and Duma lose ownership of Hell in the Lucifer spin-off series. Duma eventually allies with Lucifer and Elaine Belloc to save creation, and persuades Hell’s new ruler Christopher Rudd to bring his army to Heaven’s aid at the Battle of Armageddon.
The second and the one I’m rooting more than Duma is The Silk Man…
Appearing for the first time in Lucifer: Nirvana, The Silk Man is an immortal sorcerer, described by Lucifer as
“..a fossil remnant from an earlier, cruder creation. His body is a weaving that has to be renewed constantly. His spirit too, come to that. A messy form of immortality, but it seems to do the job.” In earlier days he was the leader of the Arao Jinn. He appears as a mercenary, hired by the angel Perdissa to kill Lucifer. He seems to need to consume living things to stay alive, weaving them into himself. He is severely damaged by Perdissa and eventually killed by Lucifer.
The Silk Man seems to be closely connected to my third speculation and as such it might be a merge of the two… In the comics, God admits that he was created by an external force and we do know that darker things lying around the cosmos and outside The Creation… Darker, twisted and defeated by Dad… Still, where would all these defeated “things” go? In Hell I suppose…
Following a mythology of Zeus and how he enprisoned the Titans under the Earth, we can say that this is a popular mythos to follow with one crucial flow. What precedes you have the knowledge of how to overpower you in time… Amenadiel might have been around at that point and might had to help Him to get rid some of them Sinnerman included….. Now The Silk Man was killed by Perdissa… But I suspect that Lucifer’s light bringing power which freed Mum might come back for that task… If you need more info about that just read Lucifer: Nirvana. Lucifer Issue 75 also has a good interaction of our hero with The Sillk Man as well though….
Anyway to finish this post… I do not believe that Sinnerman is a mere human but at the same time I cannot believe he is a celestial being at least not in the sense we have known them to be in the tv series so far. So perhaps an external force whch we know they exist from the comics? Perhaps… Let’s not forget that the Sinnerman as a casting role is new so I doubt we will see for example Malcolm back or anything of that nature in our screens soon but to the ones who want to learn more about the external forces I’ll just leave you with Carey’s two answers on that matter on Twitter…
The Dream of a Thousand Cats is a darkish one… The allegory in that story where cats once ruled over people only for the past to change goes beyond your usual comic book standards (even for Sandman in my opinion) and the fourth wall sometimes shutters but it is what it is….
As the episodes come rolling I’ll probably change my conviction over who Sinnerman is but until then this post will have to do… I apologise for its length :P