person: laci green

so lots of people have been asking me my thoughts on laci green’s “red pill” stuff recently. some, in an accusatory way (”why aren’t you a good feminist like laci green?”) and some in a confused way (”help im not sure how to process this”).

i’ve largely avoided commenting on it publicly for personal reasons. i dont like talking about individuals instead of ideas anyway, but there was just some stuff going on for me irl that made me not want to comment on this specifically.

but, at this point, i think laci is doing enough harm that it’s worth publicly saying that i really don’t like what she’s doing or how she’s doing it. i could go into a whole like in-depth thing examining every single point in her two “red pill” videos and analyzing her tweets because there’s a lot to unpack, but honestly that’s not worth my time because it won’t convince anyone of anything. people who want to support her are going to support her, and vice versa for those who don’t. i’ve had my arguments about it already and it’s tired and boring.

as an overarching critique, though, all i will say is that she doesn’t need to 1) throw other feminists under the bus or 2) befriend people who engage in online harassment.

you might not think she’s throwing anyone under the bus, and you might not think the people she’s befriending engage in online harassment – but again, i’m not trying to convince anyone of that. that’s just how i see it.

myself and other feminist creators have gotten a lot of backlash for not being ~open to a dialogue~ like laci, and i don’t think she has done anything to defend us. i think she’s tweeted a couple times that “not every feminist has to debate like me” but then the rest of her rhetoric is full of “i hate how so many feminists refuse to engage in dialogue but don’t worry everyone i’m a good feminist”. and not only does that throw us under the bus but it makes the wildly inaccurate assumption that none of us have ever engaged with any competing ideas which is a beloved anti-feminist talking point but patently false. many of us engage with these ideas, just not in the form of livestreamed debates. we’ve had our arguments, we’ve spent hours arguing over the same points, we’ve wasted our time trying to convince people of things they refuse to accept.

it’s just that she seems more interested in pandering to anti-feminists, complimenting them, and making them feel good than she does protecting the people who are at the receiving end of anti-feminist harassment campaigns.

and when people have said extremely horrible horrible things about me and my friends and tried to make our lives hell for months (or years), it hurts to see a large feminist youtuber like laci defending them and leaving me and other feminist youtubers out to dry.

i personally do not think engaging with anti-feminist ideas is a bad thing. contrary to popular belief, i talk to people with opposing viewpoints all the time (but riley you block people on twitter! yeah, conversations happen off twitter, fucking shocking i know right). but at some point, i’m just repeating myself. the arguments have been had. the points have been made. and i don’t have the money, the time, or the energy to devote 8 hours a day to arguing with anti-feminists. if someone else wants to do that, i think there’s a way to go about it that does not involve befriending anti-feminists or elevating small anti-feminists channels to a larger platform. engaging with the ~other side~ is not inherently bad – discussion and dialogue can be useful – but you have to be careful of the way in which you do it. one aspect of that is the difference between discussing privately and debating publicly. public debates are a spectacle, a show. they’re not conducive to learning or growing or conceding points. they’re conducive to proving you’re right and they’re wrong at all costs and being able to say you “owned” them the next day.

i think laci is approaching this in entirely the wrong way, and it seems to me that she has either fallen for a lot of bullshit anti-feminist talking points or is pretending to in an effort to get closer to them. either way, i think it’s kinda messed up.

anyway, that’s all imma say on the topic. the more we all talk about laci and hype up the little drama she has created, the more she profits from it and is incentivized to continue doing it. im done caring about this show she’s putting on, and i’ll continue doing the intersectional work she has abandoned.

On Laci Green

We at Uplift are very troubled by Laci Green’s actions in recent weeks. Many young people looked up to her for advice, encouragement, and affirmation. Yet her words and actions are no longer in line with what she claims to represent. Ultimately her actions amplify and legitimize  hateful language. We do not condone Laci’s actions and as a result will no longer be partnering with her.

anonymous asked:

Lmao what's wrong with Laci Green? You said "God you sound like Laci Green" (Disclosure: I haven't watched her videos in a couple of years so I don't know what she's done now)

this would be pretty fuckin twef-y on its own without this absolutely hilarious display of how little she knows about biology here:

nasty.

hey fuck your phd i’m uhhhh a sex ed teacher…. basic bio 101 says ur neuroendocrinology phd is uhhh bullshit and wrong?“

she’s just, over all, a bad feminist? iirc she said zootopia was about misogyny in the work place instead of. y’know. racism, which is what it’s actually about. a lot of White Feminists have a problem with thinking anything can be about anything besides white women’s problems

[disclaimer: i’m white too lol pls call me out if i do this]

Intersectional feminists: uplifting non-binary voices in conversations about non-binary issues is important

Laci Green: Feminists extremists are so radical and over the top. I HATE IDENTITY POLITICS!!!!

TERFs: trans women aren’t women. Vaginas only!!!

Laci: valid point let’s have a convo. I’ll invite you on my platform of 1.5 million people ily bebs ❤️

I just watched part of a Laci Green Twitter video about how she met with Sargon of Akkad, whom she calls Carl and spoke about how she was crying when she talked to him and hugged him and they hashed things out and she said he has apologised for some things: re his followers harassing Anita Sarkeesian.

But she referred to his past actions as “mistakes” and I’m just … Lost. Look, if she forgives him for what he has done to HER then fine, I forgive easily and I understand the impulse. But that language that distances him and protects him was so disturbing to hear.

For starters, Sargon KNEW his followers were harassing Anita, everyone did and he had nothing to say on it.

He has called feminism cancer, has said that BLM is a black supremacist movement to kill cops, said Trump was a lesser evil to Hillary Clinton, says that “social justice” courses should be suspended because they are also supremacists and has actively minimized the “alt right”’s white supremacy.

THESE ARE NOT MISTAKES.

And I’m pissed at some sobbing short video because he treated her a bit like a person in the street and they took a selfie together so everything is just a “mistakes” meanwhile he holds all of the toxic, disgusting and dangerous opinions he always had.

I honestly couldn’t make it through the video, the simpering over him managing to step over an incredibly low bar of basic human decency was just to fucking much.

Forgive him if you want to, but don’t cry into a camera and declare his actions “mistakes”.

Let me tell you something about Laci Green and her whole “we should talk to people with different opinions!!!” spiel: 

When native actors walked off of the set of The Ridiculous Six for the way it degraded and humiliated Native women and elders, literally only ONE big name white feminist even mentioned it and only in passing. And it was Anita Sarkeesian, who literally just shared a link from a news site that was covering the story. Literally every single “progressive feminist heroes” during that time didn’t say shit about it. They were more hung up on Jeremy Renner jokingly calling a fictional character a slut.

When this was brought to Laci Green’s attention SEVERAL TIMES on tumblr and Twitter, she didn’t say shit. And when she made an entire video about “is racism over,” she never brought up the issue and responded aggressively and defensively when it was brought to her attention.

We know damn well that if white women had been humiliated and sexually degraded in a film to the point where cast members walked off the fucking set and potentially ruined their careers for it, she’d be all over it like a bitch in heat. 

So no, I don’t want to hear about this bullshit “WE NEED TO TALK TO PEOPLE WHO THINK DIFFERENTLY!” nonsense because it only ever applies to talking to other racist ass white people. It never applies to talking to other women whose experiences with sexism and oppression and racism are VASTLY different from yours.

tl;dr Laci Green ain’t shit, she’s not “getting a redemption arc” and ya’ll need to get off her metaphorical dick.

youtube

I was hesitant to make this video at first, but I wanted to engage in the discussion.

What are your thoughts?

Every movement doesn’t have to center on everyone’s problems. Specific groups of people have their own kind of oppression, and it benefits them to address their unique experiences in a narrowed and collective manner. It’s not about excluding others, it’s about a community that addresses their specific issues.

Should POC movements, spaces, and issues be inclusive of white people? No.

Should intersex movements, spaces, and issues be inclusive of non intersex people? No.

Should disability movements, spaces, and issues be inclusive of abled people? No.

Would you complain to any of those movements for being exclusionary and non intersectional?

So why should feminism include males, why can’t there be female only spaces and movements? Why are we the ONLY ones that have to address EVERYONES problems? Why are we the ones that have to include EVERYONE or else we’re bigoted?

So it turns out Laci Green’s “Red Pill” turn is very likely influenced by the fact that she’s been dating a massive youtube anti-feminist transmisogynist ableist edgelord (CRG) and…seemingly…is conforming to his beliefs in some ways in the typical “I want to get along better with my partner and don’t want friction, so I’ll learn to be good with their views” crap I’ve seen so many cis white feminist women do over the years. Social justice and issues of marginalized people become low priority compared to one’s own comfort and convenience.

Kind of predictable, all things considered. The people you willingly hold close to you in your life often reflects who you are as a person