para: fidelity

anonymous asked:

I've been rereading Outlander and just got to the trout tickling part and Claire is musing on her growing infatuation of Jamie. During this she mentions having kissed many men during the war and developing crushes on doctors. Earlier in the book Claire vehemently denies Frank's couched query as to her faithfulness during the war. Do you think Claire did cheat or maybe this is a case of DG not keeping track of the story, given the way she writes.

Hi there, Anon.

The passage you mention was actually one of the ones that inspired my Defining and Redefining Fidelity analysis a while back. 

Without going into too much detail again here, no, I don’t think Claire slept with other men during the war while she was married to Frank; I believe all she had were minor flirtations that she didn’t consider cheating or being unfaithful. To be honest, I don’t think Frank cheated on Claire during the war either but he probably engaged in similar circumstantial flirtations (something along the lines of comforting/reassuring grieving widows when it was his job to deliver the news––and no, I’m not saying that Frank preyed on these vulnerable women or took advantage of them; grief does strange things to people and not everyone reacts the same *cough* An Echo in the Bone *cough*). 

Nor do I think this is a case of DG losing track of her own story (which, on occasion she absolutely does do––timeknot!). I think it’s very important to know at this point in book one that 1) Claire didn’t consider such flirtations to be cheating/unfaithfulness and 2) it emphasizes again how much different her relationship with Jamie is from anything that comes before. She didn’t consider such actions to be cheating while she was married to Frank but soon after her marriage to Jamie she begins to reconsider and redefine those things for herself as unexpected jealousy creeps in. While Claire didn’t overthink such actions during the war while married to Frank, she doesn’t suffer the same impulses when she’s with Jamie (and it can’t all be put down to the fact that the larger circumstances are different either). Claire probably wouldn’t be tempted that way because her relationship with Jamie is more complete than what she had with Frank was; part of those flirtations was the circumstances of war, but part might also have been the unconscious awareness that her relationship with Frank wasn’t completely right or whole, that something in it was off. 

4

Old married consulting detectives at work.  I love the odd domesticity of this scene … She confirms he’s not been tortured, pulls out a hefty jack knife and starts trying to cut thru the plastic zip ties. He readily submits, really has to pee apparently, loses patience, gets snarky, “could you just gnaw it off?” Once free he does the pee-pee dance while he dumps info and then runs off. She looks around, takes a beat and then follows. This is not the kind of relationship you have with just anyone … 

nanax7cb replied to your post “I’ve been rereading Outlander and just got to the trout tickling part…”

I would think if I had been kissing other men and having flirtatious relationships with them it would be cheating on my husband, even if I didn’t have sex with them. You’re cheating in your heart. So I think in a way she did cheat on him. Just my opinion…

Ah, but see, that’s the point. Claire doesn’t consider it cheating because as much as she loves Frank, he didn’t hold her heart in that way. It isn’t until Jamie comes along that Claire’s understanding begins to shift and to engage in such acts would be a betrayal of her heart (but at the same time, she’s not attracted to other men in that flirtatious way the way she was with Frank because her love for Jamie is so different). Emotionally Claire wasn’t as connected to Frank as she thought she was and it isn’t until she feels that deeper connection with Jamie that she begins to recognize and understand what was missing in her relationship with Frank (that she begins to recognize why it was that she could kiss other men and not consider it cheating). 

Claire absolutely crossed a line in kissing other men during the war, but there are different degrees, different lines she has between that act and the line she sees as defining unfaithfulness; in her opinion she didn’t cross that unfaithful line… not until Jamie. And by the time she falls for Jamie, she feels a degree of guilt for betraying Frank and causing him pain but she also doesn’t regret doing it because it’s Jamie. 

That’s part of what Claire is struggling with in the scene referenced by my anon: her understanding of faithfulness in the context of her changing affections and deepening love for and connection with Jamie. 

Does that make sense?

I’m not saying you’re wrong because faithfulness in relationships is absolutely something people must define for themselves (and, ideally, they and their partner have the same definition). In the case of Outlander and for Claire and Jamie, their understanding and definitions shift and change as life forces them into difficult situations and tries their relationship. It’s more than just the physical side of a relationship, becoming more and more about the emotional side for them. 

SPOILERS: 5x16; Fidelity

THINGS I LOVED:

1) Sherlock needing to pee HAHAHAHAHAHA  the way he ran 

2) “He is beautiful. Your son.”

3) “There’s a fifty-fifty chance that’s a Victorian sex toy.”

4) Kitty giving that guy a kick in the nuts.

5) “Don’t you mean football?” HAHA in my country too we hate it when people call it soccer.

6)”Yes because Ms. Winter’s foot devastated your testicles very funny now we can continue with the double entendres  or you can tell us your role in Anson Gephardt’s plot.”

7) McNally: (whistle whistle) Heard about the new do.

   Sherlock: Yeah yeah yeah.

8) “I don’t mind whether you’re a detective or not, the only thing I want, the only thing I’ve ever wanted, was for you to be happy. Against all the odds, it happened. And you didn’t tell me.” 

This whole scene was really brilliant to watch. Possibly the nicest scene in the episode. It was good to finally see the implications of what happened in the last two years.

9) “We’re not friends. We’re family.” Finally we find out exactly why she chooses to leave detective work.

10) Everything that happened in the church, including Sher looking at Watson holding lil Archie was so brilliant in my opinion. SHERLOCK HOLMES AND JOAN WATSON ARE GODPARENTS. THE FEELS. 

What I’m ???? about: What did Sherlock mean by: “You’re all (proteges) the same.” Everyone please give me your thoughts on that line!!!

Why does JLM speak so bloody fast sometimes?????

The christening could have been a great opportunity to show us Sherlock holding a baby 🙄

A few more advanced spells regarding fidelity.

Chili Pepper Spell

While you partner is sleeping, pass 2 red chili peppers over them, never actually touching them to the person, as if you were vacuuming their aura. Concentrate on you partner’s rambling nature being drawn into the peppers, his inclination to wander terminated and his passion for you filling the void left by the disappearing desires.

When you’re finished, lay one pepper against the other to form a cross. Safety pin them together and when you have chance, hide them under your partner’s side of the mattress.

Fidelity Candle

Powder caraway seeds, cumin, and licorice root and add to grapeseed oil. Carve a figure candle to represent your partner; dress with this oil and burn.

Hair Spell (Commanding/Compelling)

Obtain a lock of your lover’s hair. Sprinkle it with Command & Compel Oil. Place it in a small piece of white linen, wrapping it toward you, knotting it securely shut with blue, red, or gold silk thread.

Carry this in your pocket or a charm bag.

Hair Spell (Perfume)

Obtain two strands of your lover’s hair and tie them together with two strands of your own. Place these hairs inside a bottle of your favorite fragrance together with an Adam & Eve Root. Every morning, ideally before he or she awakens, place a drop of this fragrance under each of your arms.

Lodestone Fidelity Spell

Place two matched Lodestones and some of the botanical skullcap into a satchel. Be sure to add a lot of the botanical or several extra layers of fabric as Lodestones are hard and you want this spell to remain a secret.

Sew the satchel into your partner’s pillow.

So, there are a few more for the more practiced Witch. The Chili Pepper spell and the two hair spells seem like they would be especially powerful to me. Good luck and let me know if you ever need anything else.

-Nettle.

heartthesouth replied to your post: I’ve been rereading Outlander and just got to the…

I think Frank did cheat on her during the war. It’s classic to accuse someone of something you are guilty of.

Well this point is a point of speculation, interpretation, and opinion because there is no definitive answer laid out in the text so, you very well may be right and it’s always a possibility that DG will publish something to that effect at some point; the beauty is, until this is textually explicit one way or another, we’re all right! But just because it’s classic to accuse someone like that to deflect attention from oneself or one’s own guild (and you are absolutely right; it’s so classic I’d almost call it cliché at this point), doesn’t mean that it is always the case. And on this point of speculation, I simply see it differently (and I’m well aware that my opinion here is almost certainly in the minority and is probably unpopular to boot). 

If Frank is/was more emotionally invested in his relationship with Claire than she was with him (and I do think there is sufficient textual evidence in the books for that to be the case), then he might consider it cheating/infidelity to kiss someone else, regardless of circumstance (and he does acknowledge the circumstances of the war as being an understandable factor). Where he draws the line might (and probably is) very different from where Claire draws that line. But that’s, again, part of their relationship; they weren’t on the same page and that’s a big part of where the tension and flaws originate from. So I can see Frank feeling guiltier over something like a kiss than Claire does and that guilt stirring up his suspicions enough to mention it to Claire. But I also want to point out, he doesn’t accuse Claire of anything; he asks her and his behavior certainly implies he’s suspicious, but he doesn’t explicitly accuse her. 


@contemplatingoutlander replied to your post: 

No offense @lenny9987 but I think you are making excuses for Claire. IMHO she cheated on Frank. Kissing counts. We all know that. Certainly she would know that–she was raised Catholic back in a time when Catholicism had some very strict rules. It was considered a sin to have lustful thoughts for someone who wasn’t your spouse so kissing someone else would have been considered a no-no.

Frank and Claire were separated for many years during the war. Claire was working on the battlefield and she knew that any day could be her last. She might have felt that she should take whatever she could get out of life since she didn’t know if she would be alive the next day. Hence the little “kissing affairs.”

I think both Claire and Frank probably cheated on each other to varying degrees during the war. JMHO.

I’m not making excuses for anyone; I’m trying to understand the characters and keep an open mind. I flat out said, “Claire absolutely crossed a line in kissing other men during the war” in my original post so… no excuses being made here. The issue, as I understand it, comes with everyone’s interpretive differences when it comes to what does and does not constitute “cheating” or “infidelity” and that’s where––in my post––I focused on Claire’s definition because in the course of the books her definition appears to change with time and experience. I’m not saying whether something is right or wrong, only getting into what Claire’s definition(s) and how they change tell us about her and, more specifically, her relationship with Jame versus her relationship with Frank.

Personally, I disagree when you say, “Kissing counts. We all know that,” as if it is some universally acknowledged truth. Do we really as a society agree on anything that conclusively? Do all kisses count and if not, how do you know which do and which don’t? What about actors whose job sometimes entails kissing other people? What about kissing friends or family? What about differences in cultural backgrounds? And let’s not even get started on the double standards between what society considers acceptable behavior for men versus women (which is also heavily dependent on time and place). The lines simply can’t be drawn in black and white and not everyone even agrees on what the shades of gray are, which is why I purposely emphasized in my original post that it is a personal definition and is something that it’s important for two people in a relationship to agree upon together.

I also think it’s a stretch to pull Claire’s Catholicism into things like this when from the beginning she admits she hardly identifies with it in anything but name and we know her upbringing within the church was anything but rigorous and consistent; there are far more references to her time and travels with Uncle Lamb and the multitude of experiences she had in foreign lands and with vastly different cultures. What’s more, Claire pretty heavily implies much later in the series that she was not a virgin when she met or married Frank so if Claire was comfortable with flouting the Church’s prescriptions for behavior on that one, I think it’s safe to say that Claire doesn’t let the Church and its opinions on various behaviors dictate her personal opinions/morality. 

Biz de denedik bizden öncekiler de
Ve gördük ki vefadan daha değerli
bi şey yokmuş.
- Ali b. El-Cehm

‎وَجَرَّبنا وَجَرَّبَ أَوَّلونا
‎فَلا شَيءٌ أَعَزُّ مِنَ الوَفاءِ
علي بن الجهم

My Fidelity

In world full of Nazis and horrible shit I’d rather not see
A future of uncertainty, my soul belongs to you
That last part’s the only thing that I’m certain to be true

In a world that’s so dark, you’re my only spark
Lite my world on fire, you are my only desire. 

I would never betray you for another girl
I wouldn’t trade your love for the fuckin world

You’re the only one I want to spend my life with
I want you to know that feeling’s fucking priceless