older!tommen

anonymous asked:

How much if anything did tywin teach cersei? I always got the impression he didn't bother (focusing on jaime instead), especially as every time I can remember that cersei thinks "I'll do this, it's what tywin would have done" it's directly contradicted by things tywin has said, in her presence no less! What things does it seem she has definitely picked up from him?

I think there are two parts to this. First, without PoV access to the inside of his skull, Tywin’s not necessarily a reasonable source of information on Tywin’s motivations or explanation for why he did things one way and not another. He’s more a rationaliser than he is actually rational, and a great deal of his actions during ASoIaF are brutal overreactions based in his own sense of superiority and fear of being laughed at. (The image of super cool, super smooth, hypercompetent diplomat/politician/general Tywin can go die in a privy and rot on its bier. Oh wait that was GRRM’s point.

Second, Tywin doesn’t have to be actively trying to teach Cersei anything for her to learn things from him. Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion all looked to Tywin for example and model themselves after him. What Cersei in particular took away from Tywin is a warped idea of what strength is, both emotional and political. And the warping is inherent to Tywin’s example, not peculiar to Cersei.

The command came easy to her. My father had steel in his voice as well.

Within the tower, the smoke from the torches irritated her eyes, but Cersei did not weep, no more than her father would have.

- Cersei I, AFFC

Jaime also says that Tywin taught him that “tears were a mark of weakness in a man.” (Jaime I, AFFC) 

The point is, a steely voice and dry eyes are way down on the list of things that denote emotional strength - in that very Cersei I scene, for instance, Kevan attempts to pray and fails, overcome with grief, and yet he’s back on his feet shortly afterwards. The only person who thinks less of him for needing a moment (in this not immediately dangerous situation) is Cersei. Then there’s this  heart-chilling moment:

[Tywin] never wanted love, though. “You cannot eat love, nor buy a horse with it, nor warm your halls on a cold night,” [Cersei] heard him tell Jaime once, when he had been no older than Tommen.

- Cersei II, AFFC

Did Cersei not learn from this teachable moment? I’d argue that Cersei probably learned more and better from that than Jaime did. There’s another flashback to Cersei learning from Tywin in that chapter as well, as she watched her father at a feast.

Aerys and his lickspittles laughed loudly, whilst Father stared at Rykker over his winecup. Long after the merriment had died that gaze had lingered. Rykker turned away, turned back, met Father’s eyes, then ignored them, drank a tankard of ale, and stalked off red-faced, defeated by a pair of unflinching eyes.

[…] It is my look they must flinch from now, my frown that they must fear. I am a lion too.

- Cersei II, AFFC

See also Cersei X. As she’s arrested, Cersei shouts “I am a Lannister, unhand me!” Not to mention

She was not meek Margaery Tyrell, to don her little shift and submit to such captivity. I will teach them what it means to put a lion in a cage.

- Cersei X

This ends up with Cersei in an even worse shift and without either anything to drink from or relieve herself in. The emphasis on Lannister pride is certainly a Tywin-taught belief. It’s part of the first impression we get of him:

“By my lights, it was you who started this,” Lord Tywin replied. “Your brother Jaime would never have meekly surrendered to capture at the hands of a woman.”

[…]

His father ignored the sally. “The honour of our House was at stake. I had no choice but to ride. No man sheds Lannister blood with impunity…”

- Tyrion VII, AGoT

[Qyburn] gave her an apologetic smile and told her of a puppet show that had recently become popular amongst the city’s smallfolk; a puppet show wherein the kingdom of the beasts was ruled by a pride of haughty lions. “The puppet lions grow greedy and arrogant as this treasonous tale proceeds, until they begin to devour their own subjects. When the noble stag makes objection, the lions devour him as well, and roar that it is their right as the mightiest of beasts.”

“And that is the end of it?” Cersei asked, amused. Looked at in the right light, it could be seen as a salutary lesson.

- Cersei V, AFFC

No traceable line to Cersei’s beliefs here at all.

I’m also sure Cersei got her first lessons in misogyny from Tywin (see above, too). Tywin’s most outrageous atrocities throughout ASoIaF are directed towards punishing women who had got the better of him/the Lannisters somehow. Tywin here models extreme, and often sexual, violence as a good way to deal with ambitious, scheming women. The very fact that Tywin didn’t bother to formally educate Cersei in politics taught Cersei something about misogyny too.

Politically, it’s a huge weakness that Cersei buys into the myth of Tywin the hypercompetent. Her obsession with being her father’s true heir is as damaging to her as it is to Jaime and Tyrion, and bad for the kingdom too.

No one had ever balked her lord father. When Lord Tywin spoke, men obeyed. When Cersei spoke, they felt free to counsel her, contradict her, even refuse her.

- Cersei V, AFFC

This is what she’s trying to live up to - total unquestioned obedience, because the lesson she took from her father is that that was what was necessary for political strength. Even if it’s not what he meant to teach her, he did.

I’ve been seeing posts, many actually that Sansa Stark is ‘becoming’ like Petyr Baelish, a more grey character. This is a statement that I have always disagreed with, as it seems to be based on the following:

-Sansa’s treatment of Robert Arryn is her moral decay
-Sansa has always been more 'southern’ than her siblings, she has no direwolf, therefore is more easily influenced by Littlefinger
-Littlefinger is the only current mentor of Sansa

All of these statements are untrue. Sansa has completely different motivations to Littlefinger, always has and always will. 

Keep reading

Nullifying Sansa’s marriage

So according to GoT episode “High Sparrow,” the fact that Sansa’s marriage to Tyrion was not consummated is enough to have it nullified, and this merits one quickie line of dialogue.

Setting aside the fact that Sansa marrying Ramsay could make things easier for Roose, if he assumes Bran and Rickon are dead so Sansa (really, Sansa’s husband) inherits Winterfell, and Roose knows damn well Theon didn’t kill the Stark boys… and setting aside the fact that Sansa marrying Ramsay makes no damn sense for Littlefinger’s supposed manipulation of Sansa… and setting aside the unlikelihood that the Lannisters would just let their best hope of controlling the North go, since even if Cersei is out to get Tyrion, she could use Sansa’s marriage to him to secure the North, nor would Roose have any reason to piss Cersei off just because Tywin is dead… tl;dr LOL at D&D and their so-called plotting…

Setting aside all that, noble marriages do not just get nullified because they’re unconsummated! First of all, assuming that handwavy line implied the marriage was nullified with royal permission or by royal decree – the king doesn’t have that power, since he didn’t marry Sansa and Tyrion. The Faith of the Seven did, and no way in any of the seven hells would the Faith allow marriage as an institution to be so easily set aside, either.

Why? Because marriage in Westeros, and more importantly noble marriage, is not really about the husband and wife doing the deed in the bedchamber. It’s not even about alliances, though those are important and a nice perk.

It’s about securing succession and inheritance of property and noble names. Consummation and the bride’s virginity (or length of time since her previous marriage) only matter insofar as they solidify who inherits, according to legal precedent. Margaery and Tommen in the books don’t and can’t have sex yet, since Tommen is a kid, but that doesn’t make their marriage null and void, since it’s assumed they’ll produce an heir eventually – Margaery only lands in hot water when the possibility of her having another man’s child is raised in AFFC, which is much more important than the mere possibility of her adultery i.e. sexual activity with someone other than her husband.

According to D&D, marriage among the nobility is about screwing, so they give us older!Tommen and Margaery’s wedding night, and they seem to think marriage as an institution backed up by religion, legal precedent, and rules of inheritance can be easily made null and void. Since the whole point of Ramsay/Sansa is to cement the Bolton hold on the North and distance them from the Lannisters (let’s pretend Roose and Petyr’s conversation made one lick of sense), the last thing they’d want are rumors that Ramsay’s firstborn was a Lannister cuckoo’s egg. So maybe Sansa could even marry Ramsay, but not so soon after her previous marriage, and no way would her marriage to Tyrion be set aside just because they never had sex. 

  • book: Myrcella is older than Tommen so she should be queen! we're gonna make her queen!!!! Arianne is such a smart woman! she will be a great politician!! let's send Nym to take her father's place at the small concill in King's Landing! #girlpower
  • show: DIE MYRCELLA! who the fuck is Arianne??? of course we have to send a MAN to represent dorne! like our symbol is a SERPENT, Oberyn's daughters are the SNAKE SANDS, venom is a woman's weapon, IT MAKES SENSE THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTERS IN THIS ARC IS A MAN