nice guy trope

Can we talk about Han Solo for a minute?

When I first got into Star Wars, what I thought I knew about him could basically be summed up as “ridiculously attractive fuckboy”. Maybe because I was aware of how popular he was as a character in a male dominated fanbase. I can clearly see now how wrong I was. 

Make no mistake. Han is definetely a stuck-up scoundrel, deliciously so. But if he is any sort of role model for fuckboys, whiny pissbabies, neckbeards or whatever the current nickname for the less than stellar representatives of the male species is, they have completely misread the character.

In fact, for all his smugness and unshakable pride, Han is antithesis of the Nice Guy trope. The reason why Leia felt drawn to him was the fact that he treated her like an equal. He wasn’t awed by her position nor intimidated by her status. Her independence and fiery determination are precisely why he fell for her. When Luke asks what Han thinks of her in A New Hope, his answer is “she’s got a lot of spirit”, not “she’s beautiful” or anything of the sort. When she pulls out a blaster to finish off the stormtroopers that surprised them in Endor, like the badass she is, that’s when we first hear Han say he loves her.

Han puts Leia’s happiness before his own. When he thought she was in love with Luke, he offered to step aside. When he thought he was about to die in the carbonite chamber, his final thoughts were about her safety and well being. “I know” is such a Han Solo answer to Leia’s love confession. It’s presumptuous and witty, but oh so romantic. He was basically telling her not to worry: if he died, she could rest assured that her feelings for him were made pretty clear and she wouldn’t have to live with any regrets.

For all the heartbreak we were left with after The Force Awakens, it was a pretty fitting conclusion to his character. Leia’s first impression of Han - that of a mercenary who didn’t care about anyone - was just as wrong as mine. He does care. He cares so much for his son that he died for him and forgave him for what he did. Like always, Leia’s well being was his priority and he thought being around him was a painful reminder of what they had been through, so he kept his distance. And yet her request to bring their son home was the whole reason why he stepped on that bridge. He no longer had any hope, but he did it for her.

I just have a lot of Han Solo feelings tonight.

anonymous asked:

Does uryu fall in a 'nice guy' trope, in your opinion?

Oh dear LAWD no, anon.  I know there’s a fairly vocal part of the fandom that does, but as someone who has met her share of Nice Guys™ in her life, I can assure you he couldn’t be more different if he tried.  

I know what you might be getting at, though.  It’s very easy to turn Uryū into that kind of person in a story/meta post, by implying that Orihime somehow ‘owes’ him her affection because he’s always been there, always been sweet and kind to her.  That’s basically the whole Nice Guy™ way of thinking in a nutshell, so yes, anyone could easily twist his character to fit that trope, even though it doesn’t apply, and I’m about to explain why.

 As a smaller ship, IshiHime has often been dismissed as something people shipped to ‘get Orihime out of the way,’ and whereas I don’t doubt there are people who do think that way, I’ve yet to meet an actual IshiHime shipper who believed that Orihime owed Uryū anything.  

The whole basis of the ship, to me, was their chemistry, the fact that they brought out the best in each other, and how well they seemed to fit together, so whatever hopes I had of them becoming canon, or be implied to be heading that way relied on Orihime getting over Ichigo.  The fact that I believe Uryū respects Orihime and was attentive to her feelings doesn’t mean that Orihime had to like him by default, it simply means that this is why I think they’d make a good couple.

What sets Uryū distinctly apart from Nice Guys™ is that, in my experience, they always seem to find both small and big ways to badmouth the guy you actually like, to undermine possible or existing relationships, in a misguided attempt to elevate themselves in your eyes.  They see acts of platonic affection as currency they can cash in to get into your pants, which means that they were never truly your friend to begin with.  

Kubo demolishes that trope for Uryū in a single scene:

He never once makes light of her feelings, never once shows bitterness toward her or Ichigo, but his soulful, doe-eyed looks to her throughout the series make it perfectly clear he was head over heels in love with her. 

Orihime never owed Uryū a damn thing, but by god did I hope she would one day see how amazing they could have been together.

I always thought that Obsidian’s reluctance to do romance had more to do with the structurization of romance than romance part itself.

Look at how most devs make romance options. It starts with companion design: love interests need to be conventionally attractive, fill in different romance tropes (nice guy, ice queen, the flirt, etc.) and provide players with traditional cutesy romance, angsty brooding romance and whatever else is there.

This all can be very depressing to design, ever since you do not only need to design the character in such a way that it would work well with plot perspective and fill certain combat roles, but also make sure the character stays “romantically attractive”. Does that mean that Hiravias needs to be less of a stinky, scarred druid? Pretty up Pallegina? Kick out Durance, to make more place for handsome guys? 

Do you also make some characters more likable, to make sure they stay “romanceable”? Do you downplay Eder’s racism or does romance mean that by talking about it, Eder no longer has any prejudices left? What does that mean for everyone else who did not romance him?

So instead of providing more depth, games with romances in mind tend to have LESS varied characters and some rather unsatisfying friendship paths.

So I am very happy that Obsidian wants to make first characters and if it fits the character, allow romance to blossom. From design standpoint it’s completely different. Romances no longer have to be a fully structured romance with 3 designated romance scenes and 1 sex scene before main mission. No character is the same, so their romances do not need to have the same structure either. There is more freedom and more room for experimentation. And I don’t have to worry about characters declaring their undying love for me, for no other reason that I flirted with them three times. I would really love to have little more nuance in romances.

Seriously it is sad. Lydia Martin, a young maturing woman was a façade. Since season 3 she has been wearing a mask. Under it she is an immature, typical teenager ruled by hormones, a typical girl who doesn’t know what she wants, a typical cheesy character that falls for the “nice guy”. Typical boring tv trope. Nothing original. Nothing fresh. Another character ruined by a forced ship.  

I’m disgusted.

You know something?

There is a huge fucking double standard for the “Dogged Nice Guy” trope.

In media, this kind of guy, one who constantly tries to get a girl to like them despite not liking them, is treated as a fault of the male character and that they should get over it and it’s rarely sympathetic.

However, what no one ever seems to take into account is the Digged Nice Girl. About how this character does the exact same thing as the guy but is instead seen as “cute” or “sympathetic” or how she deserves the guy after pinning after and being around him for so long.

Why is it that a character like Jaune Arc is treated as being wrong and foolish (at best) in the show but Pyrrha is treated as the long suffering woman who earned Jaunes love when she all but directly said “I love you.” Why should Jaune get shame but Pyrrha gets sympathy?

For everyone who says that Dogged Nice Guys are creepy or wrong, here’s an idea:

Either criticize the girls as well, take a character’s personality, motives and actions into account or shut up.

James: “Winn, I’m really sorry about before. I didn’t quite get it.”
Winn: “Get what?”
James: “How much you like Kara.”
Winn: “Yeah of course I like her, like as a friend and colleague and my all-time favourite superhero.”

————————————
James: “I’m not in your way. If you have feelings for Kara you should tell her.”

DID THEY JUST FUCKING VALIDATE WINN’S FUCKBOY BEHAVIOUR?

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU APOLOGIZING FOR JIMMY? YOU DIDN’T DO ANYTHING WRONG!!!!

And then James encouraged Winn to tell Kara how he feels about her? Really?

I was hoping that you would do better than this show. But it looks like you’re super feminist about everything BUT one of the most imporTant things about feminism which is the whole nice guy trope and that GIRLS DON’T OWE YOU ANYTHING!

The “Friend zone”

So perhaps the biggest (and possibly most valid) argument against Stydia is that it plays into the stereotypical “nice guy” anti-feminist trope. For those unfamiliar, let me explain: Guy likes Girl. Girl does not know Guy exists/does not care. Guy befriends Girl to win over Girl. Girl is bedazzled by Guy and cannot believe she was such a bitch for ignoring him all these years. Guy wins Girl. They ride off into the sunset.

A blind moose would be able to see that there is room for problematic interpretation here. These kinds of storylines, when handled poorly (as they often are) treat women as objects to be won. The Guy deserves the Girl simply because he is Nice to her, and isn’t an asshole like her Boyfriend (inevitably) is. Once the Girl sees how Nice the Guy is and how much he “loves” her, she falls in love with him back. Because that is how love works if you are a Nice Guy. You just have to be nice to a girl and show her you love her, and she will love you back.

Keep reading

Just had the biggest shitfight of an argument on facebook about the whole “girls don’t like ‘nice guys’ they prefer 'jerks’”. Lasted for around 90 comments. What pricks one of their arguments was legit this:

Alex: Grace you are far from a woman yet and definitely far from an average one. Thus your assumptions are just all wrong or not fully correct.

 So basically I’m not 'woman’ enough to represent women’s views or issues.

Way to go with the logical argument. Yes, because you, an 18 year old male who believes women choose jerks, really understands women.

FOR FUCKS SAKE.

Long ass Fitzsimmons meta (i.e. - why I do not understand the haters)

First of all, I just want to put in a caveat to say that I think AoS has a crazy shippable cast of characters, and I truly enjoy all of the pairings. I have my favorites obviously (fs), but I am down with all the pairings - slash and hetero. Give them all to me.

That said, Are we watching the same show?

I really don’t get why some people are so hostile to the fitzsimmons pairing. I feel like AoS did an excellent job not having Fitz fall into the sexist, Nice Guy™ trope. They could have made him clingy and creepy, and have him pressure Jemma by always hanging around. Fitz actually did the opposite.

Fitz only told Jemma how he felt about her because he was sure he was going to die. He’d never said anything before - and wouldn’t have - because he didn’t want things to change between them and didn’t want Simmons to feel uncomfortable around him. He even went so far as to quit his job in the lab, because he thought his presence there was making things tense between them and he needed space to get over their fracture.

He never tried to take away her agency or guilt her into being with him. He was a total mensch about suffering (what he perceived to be ) her rejection in silence.

And again, she never actually rejected him, because she never got the chance to respond. Simmons told Bobbi that Fitz’s declaration caught her by surprise, because she’d never thought of him that way. And then after he said it, he’d almost died and the shit hit the fan. How could she even think about talking to him about it when he had brain damage? When Bobbi pushed Jemma to clarify her feelings, she got really flustered about it. I believe, we were supposed to infer that she had been thinking about it recently and that it was confusing her.

Jemma left SHIELD because she thought she was hurting Fitz by being there. But she missed him terribly! I’d argue that her time away from him made her rethink why she was having such a strong reaction to their separation. I mean, sure, they were and are BFFs, but you don’t walk around in a depressed funk for a year over a guy you only have platonic feelings for. You don’t make special sandwiches for them to take on all of their missions and fuss over their safety more than your other friends.

I’d guess, that she was unaware of how she felt about Fitz, because - as somebody prone to repression and not that practiced in introspection - she’d never had cause to stop and examine how codependent and inappropriate their relationship really was - for a platonic friendship.

In contrast, Fitz is all id, and reacts to everything emotionally. He doesn’t take time to think about things before acting or reacting. It makes sense that he would see what the true nature of their relationship was before she’d recognized it. He was always more in touch with his feelings.

In the S2 finale, Simmons was kind of a basket case, worrying about Fitz’s safety. He was being reckless, as usual, and she was obviously having flashbacks to the time when they were attacked by Grant. She explicitly told Fitz that watching Bobbi and Hunter together in the sick bay, made her realize that she couldn’t bare to (almost) lose him again like she did at the end of in S1. Bobbi and Hunter are a married couple. Why would that remind her of a Fitz unless…?

The events of the S2 finale triggered Jemma, and the result was that she finally understood why she was triggered. Because she loves Fitz.

And Fitz shut her down at first, because he didn’t want her to feel like she owed him an explanation. But Jemma was nervous and in tears as she tried to tell him that her feelings actually matched his. And he believed her. His confidence was so low all season 2, but he chose to believe she wasn’t just feeling sorry for him and that she returned his affection.

And wouldn’t he - of all people - know if she were lying to herself? He’s not the type of guy who would want her to be with him just to make him happy. He was shocked when she said she liked him, he thought she was going to shit him down.

And sorry, but they were about to kiss. And they would have kissed if Coulson hadn’t walked in. Jemma wanted it. She was breathless with excitement when Fitz asked her to have dinner with him and smiled like a schoolgirl to herself right before she was taken by the monolith.

Just because somebody doesn’t instantly feel the same way - or know if they feel the same way - at the exact same time the other person does, doesn’t mean they’re forcing themselves to have feelings. Sometimes people have to catch up.

She didn’t convince herself she loved him in order to get him back, because she already had him back. They were already reconciled. He never placed those kind of conditions on their friendship. It took him being out of her life for her to understand how empty she felt without him in it. Fitz taking a step back and not imposing his feelings on her, probably gave her the clarity to see how she really felt.

Yes, this is long meta, but I’m just so tired of seeing so many negative posts about Fitzsimmons, like their relationship is just one tired Nice Guy trope. I’ve never once read anything on tumblr about Fitz ‘deserving’ Jemma for being such a great guy and for trying to rescue her. He would have been just as obsessed with rescuing her if she hadn’t liked him back. He told people he was looking for his friend, not his love. He never treated Jemma with entitlement. It’s always been about their connection.

Also, Simmons spent nine days sitting next to Fitz’s bed when he was in a coma. She was just as devoted to him as he was to her. You don’t volunteer for a dangerous mission solely to give somebody space unless you think that their comfort is worth risking your life over. This isn’t a one-sided thing. I believe that if Fitz had been the one who was taken, Jemma wouldn’t have given up on him either.

I’m just saying!!!

TV Shows of 2015

↳ 35.  Master of None

In my review of Grace and Frankie I mentioned how with Peak TV there more places for different shows to get made, with Grace and Frankie it is having a comedy about older people, fellow Netflix show Master of None takes it to a whole new level. 

Main character Dev Shah (played by Aziz Ansari doing his best work yet) constantly challenges his own viewpoint by engaging in the stories of others. Episode Two ’Parents’ has been rightly praised by many for showing what it means for immigrants to give up their lives and start anew. Dev and his friend Brian really have no idea of the sacrifices their parents made so their children could have a better life and it is truly touching, interesting and ultimately funny watching them hear stories from their parents. 

On the surface Dev could be the typical nice-guy trope but his ability to listen to others and take on board their stories and concerns means he continues to evolve. It isn’t just with his parents that this happens, he comes to realise the shit that his female friends have to put up with on a daily basis, he also connects with his girlfriend’s grandmother and comes to see that old people can have a lot to say. 

Master of None isn’t just about dealing with important issues - though the ‘Indians on TV’ episode should be watched by everyone especially TV executive, at its heart it is a romantic comedy and the relationship between Dev and Rachel (Noël Wells) is one of my favourites of the year. It is sweet, it is complex, sometimes it is so damn romantic, other-times the harsh realities set in. It feels real and raw, ideal and terrifying. Absolutely beautiful.

Warren = A Neutral Character

A very short and mild look at Warren versus the fandom.


We, throughout the game Life Is Strange are taught to either not trust people or to always double-take what happens to see the truth/best outcome. While Victoria isn’t evil and Nathan is an abused child gone wild, what is Warren?

My conclusion: A Neutral Character

We are already in the mindset in the game to determine the worst out of people. Even Chloe has MULTIPLE moments where she is directly and unapologetic-ly abusive towards Max. However, this causes us to double check EVERYONE we meet, including Warren Graham. 

My deduction on him, without going into frivolous detail, is that he’s simply a regular guy in love with a girl. His actions are normal, but because of over-active deductions on character, many people believe that he is under the “Nice Guy But Actual Creeper” trope without looking at all of his actions as a whole.

The actions that make him ‘creepy’ are the highlight of many people’s arguments against Warren, but they don’t add up to the rest of the actions he does throughout the ENTIRE game. 

Warren is LiS’s Neutral Character, written to make us settle from our oversensitive dissections as a neutral/straight(not in sexuality, but as in no twists or hidden motives) character, but is ultimately destined to be broken down and, essentially, wrongfully accused to be something he really isn’t because of sensitive reaction and lack of hidden meanings.

He doesn’t have an agenda, so the fanbase against Warren makes up one to compensate his character (that and to give reasons to not ship GrahamField when that ship, within itself, is an option and not purely canon, just like PriceField)