nice guy trope

ok ok ok ok ok ok can I just have a quick lil moment of your time?

This shit.

So Hunchback is far and away my favorite movie from Disney’s Renaissance, and it always makes me so happy that yes, people seem to appreciate it, people seem to love it, but I’mma go into exactly WHY it’s my favorite, and WHY I think it’s so crucial, and WHY I think it should be required viewing for young boys specifically.

We all know that a huge bulk of the media we’ve grown up with consistently has that one frustrating message:  Being the hero means you’ll get the girl.  Many boys let this mentality bleed into reality.  We have “nice guys,” who feel that their niceness entitles them to romance, when obviously that discredits a female’s personal choice.  We all get this, we all know this, and a lot of us get that it’s a toxic message.

So check out our hero.

He’s an incredibly good person who isn’t conventionally attractive.

Check out our lady.

Super good person, conventionally attractive.

The movie so deliberately builds up Quasi’s hopes.  There’s a whole fucking song about it.

But Esmeralda, who is her own person with her own motivations and preferences, chooses another man, who is also good and also attractive.

A lot of people criticize this aspect of the movie, the fact that Quasi doesn’t get the girl BECAUSE of his appearance.  But my argument?  This is the best damn message a movie could ever send.

Because when things get dicey, when Esmeralda’s life in in danger, when Quasi would be putting his own life on the line, he knows that romance is no longer within the realm of possibility.  He knows he won’t be “getting the girl.”  He knows this, and he allows himself a moment of bitterness, he risks falling prey to the “nice guy” trope, and he almost succumbs.

“She already has her knight in shining armor, and it’s not me.”


He has NO ulterior motive for saving her life.  NO ulterior motive for opposing the man who raised him.  And he doesn’t know that he’ll get any reward, he knows he could straight up get killed for his actions, and yet he still acts.

And there’s no bitterness. There’s still so, so much love between him and Esmeralda, pure awesome platonic love, and love between him and Phoebus, and just fucking love all around, it’s amazing.

I’ve heard so many people express distaste at Quasi not ending up with Esmerelda.  Like he was cheated out of some kind of reward.  But have they watched the ending?

Does that look like a man cheated of his reward?  Does he look like he “lost” to Phoebus?  No dude, that’s a man who has everything he ever wanted, and that’s also a man who didn’t “get the girl.”

If that’s not an essential message for young boys to hear, I don’t know what is.

It has only just dawned on me but the USS Callister deals with the ‘women are only interested in assholes’ trope really well.

When we first meet Walton he seems like an arrogant douche who womem flock to for inexplicable reasons but the first section of the show is from Robert’s point of view!

When Nanette becomes the protagonist we follow it is amazing how the perspective shifts. Walton’s still flawed (because what human isn’t) but he’s more balanced. he cares about his colleagues, sacrifices himself for them and is shown as being a devoted father figure whereas Robert, who we’re first introduced to as the 'nice guy’ and the victim, is actually chillingly cavalier with people, often cruel and completely controlling.

Well played Black Mirror, well played.

reasons why futurama is so great and is so important to so many of us

  • philip j fry is our protagonist. he is mentally ill and pansexual (both of which are canon). we watch him develop from an irresponsible “loser” who has nothing to a semi-responsible man with an entire family in the form of the planet express crew. he isn’t a typical science fiction male hero - he always has to be saved, he messes everything up, he hardly does his job, but his saving grace is the fact that he is kind. and fry’s kindness is what endears everyone on the show to him. he is the most important person in the universe even though his mind constantly tells him that he’s a nothing who has no one. (this message has helped me through so many difficult times). also, the beauty in a mentally ill queer character getting the happiest of endings imaginable puts futurama leagues ahead of every other show ever. 
  • turanga leela. EVERYTHING about her. she’s a disabled orphan who grew up bullied and literally had to go through everything alone. when we meet her, time and time again, she chooses her own destiny. the first episode starts with her quitting her boring job to be the best space pilot in the galaxy. leela is the strongest person on the show and is the closest thing to a superhero that the show has. she’s an intersectional feminist, stands up for the rights of minorities and animals. hell, she literally leads a revolution to get the mutants equal rights. one other thing that i want to note is that the animators wanted her nose smaller bc they didn’t think female characters should have big noses, but legend matt groening fought to keep it the size it was. 
  • matt groening also specifically created the character of amy wong to break the stereotype that only men can do slapstick. amy continuously breaks stereotypes. she’s a genius and has a phd, but she’s also ditzy. she’s promiscuous, she’s a party girl. her parents are emotionally abusive and she deals with an eating disorder. she’s also an asian woman who’s a lead character!! what other mainstream cartoon has done that? 
  • hermes conrad could’ve been the stereotypical token black character who only comes in once in a while to say “sassy” lines but he’s not. he’s a proud jamaican who’s a proud bureaucrat, a former olympic champion, and an amazing husband and father. and then we see the beautiful story of how he saved bender as a baby and it just makes you love him anymore.
  • this last point isn’t about the characters, but about one of the most clear main messages of the show, which fry says in bender’s big score: “i want what’ll make you happy, not what’ll make me happy.” not only does it destroy the nice guy trope in that instance, but it’s used in so many other great situations. bender giving up a relationship with his son so that his son can achieve his dreams, leela’s parents giving up a life with her so that she can have a better life. unconditional selfless love is presented to us time and time again and it’s such an important message 

okay but you know how since v1 it’s been played up that nora has a crush on ren and he’s implied to be oblivious what if later on she finally gets the courage to tell him how she feels and he just looks at her confused like what i thought we’d been dating for years 

Nice Guys Finish First?

I’d like your thoughts about this. 

I think the idea of the Nice Guy trope isn’t ~bad per se, but it has a tendency to be…. incomplete. 

I don’t think the issue with the nice guy trope is “guy pines after girl, guy perseveres, guy gets the girl”.  The guy “getting” the girl (or more accurately, the girl deciding to give him a chance) isn’t so much of an issue for me.  

My issue lies in “guy pines after girl, guy perseveres, girl says no, guy calls her a b*tch, kills her and her whole family”.  The negativity around this trope has to do with idealizing the image that a girl is something to be won, but the sentiment is just that, just hopefully not so gross.  

Stiles wanted Lydia because she was beautiful and mysterious, but Stiles also knew she was a genius and had a quick and wicket tongue.  The important thing is that when she said no (or rather, when it became clear she was all about Jackson), he backed off.  He stopped pursuing her romantically and even went on to make terrible dating choices.  

Of course he still had feelings, but he respected her boundaries.  The supernatural linked them so he couldn’t just disappear, but I don’t think he ever made her feel awkward or like he was trying to pursue her (except as dark!Stiles, which… unhealthy love for that scene).  He was a friend to her and they had an excellent friendship. 

This is kind of why I take umbrage at Lydia “realizing” her feelings after the panic attack kiss because up until that point we didn’t have a strong enough grasp on Sydia bros for it to be warranted.  The events of 5A would have been a perfect jumping off point for them to do the romance thing and would have firmly removed Stiles from the “nice guy”  trope the antis try to saddle him with. 

I’d love to know your thoughts about this!  Send me an ask!


Noirvember: Day 2

Neo-Noir Dramedy Veronica Mars (2004 - 2014) & Neo-Noir Comedy The Nice Guys (2016)

Can we talk about Han Solo for a minute?

When I first got into Star Wars, what I thought I knew about him could basically be summed up as “ridiculously attractive fuckboy”. Maybe because I was aware of how popular he was as a character in a male dominated fanbase. I can clearly see now how wrong I was. 

Make no mistake. Han is definetely a stuck-up scoundrel, deliciously so. But if he is any sort of role model for fuckboys, whiny pissbabies, neckbeards or whatever the current nickname for the less than stellar representatives of the male species is, they have completely misread the character.

In fact, for all his smugness and unshakable pride, Han is antithesis of the Nice Guy trope. The reason why Leia felt drawn to him was the fact that he treated her like an equal. He wasn’t awed by her position nor intimidated by her status. Her independence and fiery determination are precisely why he fell for her. When Luke asks what Han thinks of her in A New Hope, his answer is “she’s got a lot of spirit”, not “she’s beautiful” or anything of the sort. When she pulls out a blaster to finish off the stormtroopers that surprised them in Endor, like the badass she is, that’s when we first hear Han say he loves her.

Han puts Leia’s happiness before his own. When he thought she was in love with Luke, he offered to step aside. When he thought he was about to die in the carbonite chamber, his final thoughts were about her safety and well being. “I know” is such a Han Solo answer to Leia’s love confession. It’s presumptuous and witty, but oh so romantic. He was basically telling her not to worry: if he died, she could rest assured that her feelings for him were made pretty clear and she wouldn’t have to live with any regrets.

For all the heartbreak we were left with after The Force Awakens, it was a pretty fitting conclusion to his character. Leia’s first impression of Han - that of a mercenary who didn’t care about anyone - was just as wrong as mine. He does care. He cares so much for his son that he died for him and forgave him for what he did. Like always, Leia’s well being was his priority and he thought being around him was a painful reminder of what they had been through, so he kept his distance. And yet her request to bring their son home was the whole reason why he stepped on that bridge. He no longer had any hope, but he did it for her.

I just have a lot of Han Solo feelings tonight.

unwanted thoughts on bare a pop opera la:

  • jason is played by ben platts brother and no one talks about it
  • also how are you supposed to be a popular lady killer when your brother is ben platt
  • peters not looking any better i love him but he looks like a goddamn parrot this isnt a joke
  • zach looks like james charles and i don’t even understand why he’s there
  • i know that the story is set up so nadia’s jabs at ivy seem less harmful than ivy’s insults to nadia because you know theres a social scale but also they’re are so little people in their graduating class/friend group that it really doesn’t matter if nadia’s emo she’s still hurting ivy’s feelings why doesn’t anyone care about ivy there was a whole song about it
  • why do i care about matt despite him being a nice guy trope. what gives him zest. these are genuine concerns.
  • i’m sorry but i can never take wonderland seriously if i watch the la version. it’s too funny. lucas is played by this like 30 year old white guy and we’re supposed to pretend that 1. he belongs in a catholic high school and 2. that he can rap. of course he can’t rap. am i supposed to sit through a solid minute of this idiot who thinks he can rap rapping without laughing? i think not
  • i like this version because the extras are very intent on being extra. 
  • matt’s character is hilarious to me, because like, he’s exactly what you’d expect from a catholic school student, except he’s this fancy ass weirdo in the group. i bet his parents thought he’d fit in perfectly, never considering he’d be the deadbeat dad to a Bunch Of Stoners Who Make Bad Decisions.
  • that moment when zach says “this is so arbitrary” like lol. zach. you’re straight you don’t know words.
  • i’ve seen peter and ivy are best friends headcanons and also peter and nadia are best friends headcanons. the best solution to this is that peter is the cleo to nadia and ivy’s ricky and emma. he’s the peacemaker. if nadia and ivy ever date, peter will be both relieved and terrified at the same time.
  • i’m sorry am i missing something?? the show makes it out to be like “matt just wants ivy but ivy’s like ‘get away from me’” but they kiss at the end of portrait of a girl??? are the they dating??? is this a ross rachel situation?? is matt one of The Boys and he just doesn’t know how to let go??
  • the passion in rory’s voice as she says ‘it’s a pinata matt’ is one of the few joys in life. like fuck you matt you have eyes. you know what it is you’re just too scared to see the truth.
  • i feel like ‘birthday, bitch’ just kind of incapacitates the characters and their dynamics perfectly. if i was to sum up bare a pop opera and why i love it i would just play that song. with the visuals, because everyone needs to see The Pinata and why jason’s needs to be That Big.
  • ‘are you there’ is great because you have a straight guy and a gay guy talking about love and *it’s equality* until the straight guy get’s a little bit gay and no one talks about it.
  • i know i said the dude looked like a parrot but like there have been several occasions where i just stare at payson lewis and his beautiful figure and wonder why jason’s supposed to be the hot one.
  • i can’t believe matt sang the line “they said things would get better but i guess they lied”. like i know he was the one singing it but i refuse to believe it. you’re a straighto mchetero buddy. lay off. 
  • matt’s “DRINK TO THAT” is so fucking funny to me. like ‘cheers bro we’re all alone here. also i know you’re gay and in love with jason but i’m gonna pretend i don’t until the end of this number’.
  • sister chantelle confirmed beyonce is gay culture
  • also the fact that they switched “diana ross” to “beyonce” to appeal to the teens is fine but “fuck me matt it’s diana ross” is still iconic
  • why the hell does matt suddenly decide to be homophobic to jason. boy you had your chance.
  • listen this just got serious so not a lot more jokes but i love how the band is in the background and looks genuinely concerned for peter and jason’s relationship and it’s hilarious.
  • spring really does not have to be in the show but that’s what makes it beautiful.
  • bare a pop opera except the plot and characters are expressed through a series of badly written diss tracks.

I always thought that Obsidian’s reluctance to do romance had more to do with the structurization of romance than romance part itself.

Look at how most devs make romance options. It starts with companion design: love interests need to be conventionally attractive, fill in different romance tropes (nice guy, ice queen, the flirt, etc.) and provide players with traditional cutesy romance, angsty brooding romance and whatever else is there.

This all can be very depressing to design, ever since you do not only need to design the character in such a way that it would work well with plot perspective and fill certain combat roles, but also make sure the character stays “romantically attractive”. Does that mean that Hiravias needs to be less of a stinky, scarred druid? Pretty up Pallegina? Kick out Durance, to make more place for handsome guys? 

Do you also make some characters more likable, to make sure they stay “romanceable”? Do you downplay Eder’s racism or does romance mean that by talking about it, Eder no longer has any prejudices left? What does that mean for everyone else who did not romance him?

So instead of providing more depth, games with romances in mind tend to have LESS varied characters and some rather unsatisfying friendship paths.

So I am very happy that Obsidian wants to make first characters and if it fits the character, allow romance to blossom. From design standpoint it’s completely different. Romances no longer have to be a fully structured romance with 3 designated romance scenes and 1 sex scene before main mission. No character is the same, so their romances do not need to have the same structure either. There is more freedom and more room for experimentation. And I don’t have to worry about characters declaring their undying love for me, for no other reason that I flirted with them three times. I would really love to have little more nuance in romances.

“Why does Piz get cast as the good guy? He basically stalked Veronica from the beginning, pined for her the entire time she was taken, waiting for his chance to swoop in. He acted like he was so tortured for being in love with a girl who had a boyfriend, even though he barely knew her. But just because he’s the nice guy trope, people ignore that.”

anonymous asked:

In reality the fact that Naruto ended up with Hinata was pretty realistic and ordinary to see. Do you dislike that because of your hatred of Hinata or because of your love for Sakura? not trying to be mean, just curious. also if Sakura had ended up with Naruto when she obviously like Sasuke the whole series, she would have felt like a sort of trophy wife, wouldn't she? just my opinion though, i respect whatever answer you say.

I don’t know if you get the impression that I would have rather had Narusaku canon from my posts but I am a huge sasusaku shipper who is perfectly content with being end game. My reasons for hating NH/H are very independent from sakura/ns love. 

 I made this post to clarify that

and my opinion on why I don’t like nh has been stated multiple times

That aside, I usually go with whatever is canon and SS was very obvious to me so I stuck with it. I assumed Naruto would end up with hinata since sakura was off the table and hinata was like like,,the only one,,there (narugaa made the most sense but does kishimoto care? no.). Had NaruSaku been written romantically in part 2 I would have maybe been a little sad that sasuke would end up alone but I would probably end up otping narusaku. Granted if ns happened post 699 it would a little nice guy gets girl in the end because it lacked in terms of developing sakura’s feelings towards naruto romantically- they had amazing moments but her feelings can be interpreted in different ways whereas her feelings towards sasuke were always clear. but it would not be as bad as antis want it to be. See, the difference between the nice guy trope and narusaku is that in that trope the guy feels entitled to the girl and the girl falls for the guy after he is successful. In narusakus case, sakura started admiring Naruto’s never give up attitude as early as his fight with Zabuza. She admired him and cheered him on and believed in him as the underdog, not the hero naruto uzumaki

she was not there AFTER his dreams came true, rather she was supporting his dreams because she WANTED them to come true

the thing that sets them as a pairing aside the most is their amazing development and how naturally they understand one another. 

And very importantly let me highlight: naruto never felt entitled to sakura. He has never disrespected her feelings towards sasuke, despite having his own feelings (if anyone brings up chapter 3 i will kick you with a shoe) towards her going as deep as being stated to be ‘love’ in the databook 

Even if he promises with a pained face and even if he still likes her enough to show her off to his dad, he never once acted like she should love him because im such a nice guy :( why do girls always go for douches? :( 

NaruSaku always centered around development and mutual respect, that is why it still has very dedicated fans, a lot of whom are my friends and they have valid opinions but it never centered around Naruto’s feelings for sakura suddenly being something he can claim her with. The only thing standing between ns and canon is sakura’s romantic feelings for naruto never being developed by kishimoto who had sasusaku in his mind from the start. But seriously, ns has never been and will never be a nice guy ship. NH however is the ‘nice girl makes guy realize oh wow they should be together <3′ taylor swift trope and it’s the first and only canon I cannot stand. Thanks for the ask anon.

I think the finale of Rick and Morty season 3 is really important for the show, and also all of the super shitty fans who watch it.
Beth choosing Jerry isn’t like… the ultimate “nice guys finish last” trope subversion. They do a while two episodes of building Beth up to be, really, very obviously Rick’s kid (including a very prolonged monologue on the batshit things she asked Rick for as a child), showing that she IS smart, she IS this really intelligent, disenfranchised person like Rick.
And then, when she’s forced to literally question her own humanity, she decides “No. I want to live my life. I want to be loved. I prefer to be NORMAL, to live an AVERAGE life with an AVERAGE man, and be happy with it because it’s good”.
And Rick loses. He loses his daughter, his status as the “highest on the totem pole”, as he puts it. With all his intelligence, all his planning, showing all the counterattacks and defenses he has against the President in the episode, evident of how he’s always, ALWAYS prepared because he’s Just So Damn Smart, he didn’t realize Beth could ever choose Jerry. Really CHOOSE Jerry.
The one thing he wasn’t prepared for was to be held at second best, for someone to reject his Intelligence Makes Me God lifestyle. Because she does; she says whether or not she’s a clone, she chooses Jerry.
And not only that, Morty and Summer - who have tried over the course of season 3 to show how broken they are, how much they just don’t care about their parents divorce and how they have so many more important things going on to give a shit - are right there in that cabin. They helped spirit away their mom and dad, to a place where (supposedly) Rick wouldn’t find them. Out of love, and out of realizing that what Rick wanted wasn’t what was best for everyone.
Rick tried so damn hard to break up Beth and Jerry, with such goddamn EFFORT. Maybe because he thought Beth could do better, maybe because he couldn’t stand to be around the man who knocked his daughter up at 17, maybe because he just couldn’t stand being around such a simple, simple man. He put time and effort into breaking them apart, something he normally reserves for things he really intensely cares about, only to have it crumble around him.
This man who plays God put in the effort to change something he didn’t like - something he’s done so, so many times before - and for once… he failed.

  • Stranger Things: *does not follow 'nice guy' or 'misunderstood guy' trope and reward jonathan for eventually sorta being nice and less creepy to nancy by having them end up together*
  • Me: nice
  • Tumblr: *crawls farther up jonathan's ass*
  • Me: *stares into camera*

I looooove the “Nice Guy turned Villain” trope, I live for it. Have a seemingly sweet, caring guy visibly interested in the female character and then him so effortlessly switching to the bad guys side when he’s rejected/realizes he has no chance bc yeah, you were a villain all along you fool, you were never the hero and you deserve to be antagonized and instead of guilt tripping the female character until she “realizes” in the least realistic way that “it was him all along”, have her cutting him off completely because he never really cared for her and the fact that this post is about Megamind is ridiculous but hey i love that movie and everything about it

anonymous asked:

Does uryu fall in a 'nice guy' trope, in your opinion?

Oh dear LAWD no, anon.  I know there’s a fairly vocal part of the fandom that does, but as someone who has met her share of Nice Guys™ in her life, I can assure you he couldn’t be more different if he tried.  

I know what you might be getting at, though.  It’s very easy to turn Uryū into that kind of person in a story/meta post, by implying that Orihime somehow ‘owes’ him her affection because he’s always been there, always been sweet and kind to her.  That’s basically the whole Nice Guy™ way of thinking in a nutshell, so yes, anyone could easily twist his character to fit that trope, even though it doesn’t apply, and I’m about to explain why.

 As a smaller ship, IshiHime has often been dismissed as something people shipped to ‘get Orihime out of the way,’ and whereas I don’t doubt there are people who do think that way, I’ve yet to meet an actual IshiHime shipper who believed that Orihime owed Uryū anything.  

The whole basis of the ship, to me, was their chemistry, the fact that they brought out the best in each other, and how well they seemed to fit together, so whatever hopes I had of them becoming canon, or be implied to be heading that way relied on Orihime getting over Ichigo.  The fact that I believe Uryū respects Orihime and was attentive to her feelings doesn’t mean that Orihime had to like him by default, it simply means that this is why I think they’d make a good couple.

What sets Uryū distinctly apart from Nice Guys™ is that, in my experience, they always seem to find both small and big ways to badmouth the guy you actually like, to undermine possible or existing relationships, in a misguided attempt to elevate themselves in your eyes.  They see acts of platonic affection as currency they can cash in to get into your pants, which means that they were never truly your friend to begin with.  

Kubo demolishes that trope for Uryū in a single scene:

He never once makes light of her feelings, never once shows bitterness toward her or Ichigo, but his soulful, doe-eyed looks to her throughout the series make it perfectly clear he was head over heels in love with her. 

Orihime never owed Uryū a damn thing, but by god did I hope she would one day see how amazing they could have been together.

an argument for praxis

i’m going to preface this by saying that i have not been in the starfighter fandom very long, certainly not as long as some of the people that i am acquaintances with or have seen in the tag. however, i feel the need to sort of get this off my chest because i think praxis, as a character, receives a lot of undeserved hate. he has a bad reputation for being someone so, well, normal, for being the opposite of cain (which in no way is a negative/jab because they are vastly different characters who serve different purposes). 

beneath the cut i’d like to talk a little bit about why i, personally, think praxis is not only a good character, but a great one, and why some of the pervasive, negative meta that has lingered on is not an accurate portrayal of his role/place within the comic.

warnings: this is long. there is some nsfw text underneath the cut (starfighter is very nsfw so, surprise), possible spoilers if you’re not caught up with the comic. 

Keep reading

Just Realizing...

I love love LOVE Jackie and Hyde’s relationship, they were one of my first OTPs before I even knew what an OTP was, and I’m rewatching That 70s Show and even when Hyde couldn’t stand Jackie he could never bear to see her cry. Like in 1x19, Prom Night. She starts crying and he takes her to the prom:

and when Kelso confronts him about it Hyde says, “She CRIED, man!”

And in 2x21  Kelso’s Serenade, when Jackie starts crying after he says they won’t hang out anymore, it really gets him and he strokes her hair to calm her down:

There are a lot of other instances in seasons 2 and 3 that show how Hyde actually can’t stand to see Jackie upset but as it doesn’t relate directly to crying I’ll skip over those to:

7x14, Fighting Man, when they’re broken up and express how much they miss each other through bickering with one another and he seeks her out to insult her but can’t when he sees her crying on her own:

They were honestly a great couple and the build up to their relationship was there for a long time and it was a natural progression and a very real relationship. It still bothers me that the writers put Jackie and Fez together because it felt as if Jackie “owed” it to Fez to be with him since he was the “one who was always there”, it plays into the “friend zone” “nice guy” trope/mentality and that’s more than a little irksome. It’s always going to be Hyde and Jackie to me ;)