How do you argue the idea that "if god created everything who created god" because there seems to be a contradiction with people who say everything had a creator
This argument is a simple one in my opinion. But before I show you how this doesn’t cause a contradiction for theists, I’ll show you how this question actually leads to a contradiction for atheists.
We’ve all heard of the Big Bang Theory, however not many people actually have an accurate understanding of what it is. Normally, we think that this theory means that there was nothing, then a “Big Bang” happened and then everything came into existence etc etc. This isn’t 100% true. What the Big Bang Theory states is not how the universe began, but rather, how it expanded. So this theory starts off with a super small, condensed sphere known as the ‘singularity’ which, for one reason or another, expanded super quickly and eventually led to the universe we have today. Notice, this doesn’t answer, nor does it attempt to answer, the actual issue of creation. The super small dense singularity exists beforehand in the theory. No where in the theory does it say this ball popped into existence, it simply states that it already existed. Likewise, other theories like evolution fall under the same misunderstanding. Evolution itself is NOT a source of creation. It cannot create itself, rather, evolution describes a method of creation. A cell had to have formed before evolution occurs. It’s not the other way around. Evolution needs DNA, and a replicating DNA at that (along with suitable proteins, enzymes, etc). So here is where the contradiction occurs for the atheist…When they ask a theist, “well if you say everything needs a creator, then who created God?” they themselves believe in a theory were a magic dense singularity already existed, only later to have magically expanded. So if they ask who created God, I ask who created that singularity? If they can accept that this singularity existed without a creator then what’s the issue of thinking God exists without a creator….
Another interesting point. Scientists tell us that they believe the universe is about 13 billion years old. The way they got that number is through their estimates of when the Big Bang occurred. This means that they believe that time was created along with space in something called space-time. But what is time? (and no, time really does exist, it is NOT man made). This is question now leaves the realm of science and enters the realm of philosophy. After reading the different arguments as to what is time, I believe the best definition of time is that it is simply a measurement of change. Therefore, if nothing changes, then there is no time. For example, I believe that if everything in the universe reaches 0 Kelvin, or absolute zero, (at this point even the atoms almost stop vibrating), then time pretty much stops because nothing can really change anymore (think of the Big Freeze, aka the Death of the universe). Likewise, if scientist believe that time began with the Big Bang, they must believe in God. Why? Because if they say time didn’t exist beforehand, then that means there was no change, and no change can ever occur. This is because No change + No change = No change. For example, idk about you, but sometimes I could be sitting home alone, but then something randomly just falls or something weird like that. That act of sudden movement of that object is not random, there had to have been slight changes or small forces acting on it until it gave way and fell. Point being that there was slight changes taking place along the way which eventually led to this occurring. However, if time truly did being with the Big Bang, then nothing could have built up before hand to have led to trigger the universe’s expansion because nothing can change. Thus, you would need God to not only create that small dense ball to begin with, but to initiate it’s growth.
Okay, so that is one way to answer the question, but here is another.
This question is usually posed because everything we see and everything that exists in our universe needs a cause. And this is part of the nature and law of our world. However, a distinction needs to be made between our world and God. God isn’t bound by our world, it’s laws, or it’s norms, and this is a vital point. This concept of cause and effect, creator and created, only applies to this universe. But I understand that wrapping your head around this notion is difficult, so I’ll give you an example of how there are things that our minds simply cannot understand because these concepts seem too strange to us. For example, think of a 2D object. Most likely you thought of a stick person or shadow or something. Now think of a 3D object…. Easy. Now think of a 4D object. Can’t? How about 5D? You man say, well they don’t exist. However, according to String Theory, it is theorized that up to 11 Dimensions are out there. The only problem is we have no way of detecting them…. the point is, we can’t comprehend things outside our realm of reality which is why the question of “Well, if God exists, who created Him?” is not necessarily a valid question. In our created realm, the reality of cause and effect exists, but this law was created by Allah (SWT), not the other way around. And again, anyone who objects to this would have to also reject the Big Bang Theory as well.
Lastly, I’ll just include this bit. We live in an age were it seems that most scientists are atheists/anti-religion, however this simply isn’t true. A study done by Elaine Howard Ecklund, from Rice University between 2005-2008 showed that out of 1700 scientists about 50% of them believed in some form of God. Of the remaining 50%, only 30% of those scientists considered themselves to be atheist, leaving the other 20% being agnostic. What’s even more surprising is that out of the 30% of scientists which said they are atheists, One-Fifth of them considered themselves “spiritual atheists.” Furthermore, she found that out of the atheist scientists, only a very small percentage were anti-religion or felt that science and religion weren’t comparable. She also went on to speak about how most scientists don’t feel comfortable letting other people know they believe in God bc they felt that if people know that the believe in a creator, they might question their work. The reason I state this is bc we are fed this false idea that most scientists are atheists…that is simply not the case. Included in this research was what you would call “elite” scientists, or the big name scientists, who fell on both ends of the spectrum. Some believed in God while others didn’t. But the point is the same, don’t believe this narrative that scientists or people of knowledge are atheists, that isn’t true. I currently have a Biology professor who studied at Harvard and has his PhD (in the biological field, forgot what it was exactly) who openly says he believes in God…use your own judgment, don’t look for other’s to think for you.
Just some fun facts: Albert Einstein, also held some sort of belief in God, although he believed in Spinoza’s God. But in an interview published in George Sylvester Viereck’s book, Glimpses of the Great, he was asked if he considered himself to be a pantheist. Einstein said,
“Your question is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question I can answer simply with yes or no. I’m not an atheist, and I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza’s pantheism, but admire even more his contribution to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and body as one, and not two separate things.”
Another leading scientist, Dr. Michio Kaku, who is the co-founder of String Field Theory, also believes in God. He has said,
“Personally, I think there’s much wisdom in the God of Einstein…The universe is gorgeous. The universe is very simple, and it didn’t have to be that way. The universe could have been random. It could have been ugly. It could have been a random collection of electrons and photons. No life, no vitality, nothing interesting at all. Just a random collection of a mist of electrons and photons. That could have been the universe, but it isn’t. Our universe is rich; it is beautiful, elegant. And you can summarize most of the laws of physics on one sheet of paper. Amazing.”
-Dr. Michio Kaku
But like I said, don’t believe in something because others do or don’t. You are intelligent enough to piece together your reality, so don’t give that right to anyone else. You will come across people who believe in God and don’t believe in God and still, others who fall somewhere in-between, but all that doesn’t matter because their beliefs aren’t yours. Imam Jafar Sadiq (as), the 6th successor of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAWS), has a lovely saying where he says,
“The one who enters this religion through men will exit it through men just as they caused him to enter it. And whoever enters this religion through the Book and the prophetic practice, mountains will move before he does [in his faith].”
In other words, you must believe on your own account. Don’t look at who follows what and say, well Richard Dawkins is super anti religion therefore so am I. At the same time, also don’t say, “well Albert Einstein believed in a creator, therefore so will I.” That isn’t having faith in God, it’s having faith in man. Moral of the story, think hard, ask questions, come up with your own conclusion.
I wish you clarity in your pursuit