meta textual

Act 1 on Reality

John expects reality to conform with his symbol language. A tree in a kid’s yard MUST have a tire swing to be authentic (1927). “A fire BELONGS in a FIREPLACE” (1950).  “ A father without a pipe is like a strapping roughneck without a toothpick. That is to say, HE IS A RATHER PISS-POOR EXCUSE FOR A ROUGHNECK IF YOU ASK ME.” (1970)

The meta-textual winking in the comic is a distraction. When John knocks over his Nana’s ashes, John understands his mistake to be a “virtual certainty” (1953) because he views the event to be the actualization of a cinematic trope. That is a character moment. That is how John sees the world.

TANGENTIAL: In the living rooom, John comments that he should “exhaust all possibilities before plunging into a DAD encounter” (1979). This is the attitude of a gamer finishing every quest in the game before facing the final boss. Earlier, John took the time to inform us that pipes are his dad symbol. So when the final boss on LOWAS is in a lair covered in pipes, we can see that John’s very concept of ultimate conflict involves confronting his dad.

This attitude is stated most concisely at the fireplace: “As domestic myth of unaccountable origin holds, a home borrows the spirit of the flame for as long as it makes a guest of it” (1950). For John, there is an essence of flame, an idea of flame, that is eternal. Every fire John has seen is simply an instance of an ideal fire-object burning away in the elsewhere. This is essential Plato’s theory of forms, but in the language of a kid who thinks movies reveal that higher reality.


I’m grappling with what this implies about putting the bunny back in the box. Dave’s gift introduces the word “authenticity” into the story, and putting the bunny back in the box clearly takes on a ritual significance for John. I don’t know what the ritual means though.

The boxes themselves tell part of the story. Jade sends her rabbit in a green box – a dead ringer for the Perfect Generic Object, marking its contents as a fundamental idea, an indivisible unit of reality. Yet Jade’s package contains the most complicated version of the rabbit, augmented through several iterations.

Is the augmented rabbit closer to it’s essential symbolic reality? Does it mean a complex idea becomes basic over time? Not sure, but I’ll keep an eye out.

some thoughts re. season 3

So. In the wake of season 3 I’m aware I haven't… posted very much, necessarily, and I’ve been a bit salty and bitter about things. And I want to take a minute to address why, so that people can understand where I’m coming from with this and why my mood is so “sad and angry and ready to fight the world”.

Let me start by saying: this is not my first rodeo. I have been in fandoms a long-ass time. I know that shows do not always go the way you want them to, and that creators will tell their own story according to what they want to do and no fan is ‘entitled’ to have that story turn out according to their wishes. So when I say “I am really unhappy about Season 3” I want people to understand that I am not simply throwing my toys out the pram because I didn’t get the storylines/ships/characters that I wanted.

I went into this season with a handful of theories that I thought might be canon. Most of them didn’t pan out, and you know what? I’m not mad about that. Sure, I didn’t get Ryou and my theory about the origins of Voltron is pretty much dead in the water but that does not bother me. I’m cool with that. That is not why I’m upset and angry.

This is about Shiro. Like so, so many things for me: it’s about Shiro.

(more under the cut)

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something i find interesting about murphy’s line “who needs food when you have love” - apart from the fact that it brings in a playfulness that i have always appreciated about his character as a whole and how it shows that he has received one of the most consistent developments this season by far (another character with a very consistent arc would be raven, to be honest) - is that it’s the kind of love confession that is - on a meta-textual level - heavily layered with heartbreaking history about murphy’s own past.

‘cause here is the deal, his scene with emori in 4x09 kind of reminds us of the 86 days he’s spent in the lighthouse alone - which we get to see in 3x01, and i find it fascinating - (not just because raven, emori and murphy make a cute group) - because it stays so true to the patterns of his emotional arc.

remember what actually drove murphy to almost commit suicide back in season 3? what the catalyst was? something very physical that helps people survive?

he says it, after 86 days he basically ran out of food.

while we deal with the very obvious facts that he’s mentally suffering from being isolated and is, in hindsight, reduced to a literal train wreck (a scary routine that consists of eating, sleeping and watching videos of becca and co.), we also deal with the heavy realization that on a very physical level he is going to die an extremely slow and painful death, because he has only one box of food left, which means that the surviver in him can’t survive - he is trapped, he’s out of supplies that keep him alive and there is a real fear brewing in him, because he is completely aware of his future and what promise this bunker gives him.

in that sense, murphy’s exclusive focus on the box of food in this scene is noteworthy, because while he is completely aware of what it means to run out of food - starvation, also known as the kind of death we know he does not want to go through (hence the suicide attempt) - the more irrational part of him can’t go along with the act in itself, since murphy doesn’t want to die, which is narratively affirmed with his line “really never thought I’d miss the Ark this much”.

so, you have this crazy interplay between the loss of external structures (he’s trapped in ALIE’s bunker/has run out of food) and internal conflict (he can’t pull the trigger), which then results in driving the greatest point of this sequence home  - committing suicide alone in a bunker after running out of food would mean fulfilling the one thing murphy fears the most - dying alone.

essentially, that’s why this scene is so surgically feels-inducing to me, because it’s bookend with the kind of construction in which the writers force murphy into a direct one-on-one conflict with himself and therefore his greatest fears, which he just so happens to escape. and while it’s hard to reexamine scenes from season 3 when you haven’t seen it in a while, it’s quite interesting to see how it’s murphy alone who breaks out of it and reaffirms his own survival. no one/nothing snaps him out of the suicide attempt - he does it all by himself.

being a lone wolf is not murphy’s strength, because being alone detracts from his effectiveness as a character, so you need him in a group, or with someone.

in season 4 and especially in 4x09 everything turns upside down. this time he is having an actual conversation about the lighthouse; not only that, but he is having it with none other than emori - the girl he loves.

fittingly, murphy’s character arc is driven forward in large part by his relationship with emori - she has a significant role in shaping him - but the striking part about this scene is the double effect, because - as i’ve stated somewhere above - while it is definitely tied to his first experience in the bunker/lighthouse, we also see how much he has grown since then.

emori is stating the obvious - 5 years in the bunker will mean starvation - being the more rational one between them, because *ring ring ring* there’s not enough food. she is plagued with a legitimate fear, as she believes that the others won’t come back for her, murphy and raven to get them to polis (seeing it as being ruled out as the ones who are doomed to die), but then there is murphy who is in love so *who needs food*. i think that he knows what emori is talking about, but tries to play it cool with a bit of humor, because while murphy can be extremely rational himself, there are moments where his human desires keep him grounded - and emori needs that as much as he does. i mean, just think of his own surprise when he sees nathan and jackson enter becca’s lab.

so, the sly emphasis on the words “food” and “love” bring forth his own emotional development without distracting too much from what’s happening. this scene quite literally considers the actual option of going into the lighthouse (which they get ready for by the end of the episode only to be stopped by nathan and jackson), but it’s also about murphy himself, because he openly revels in his own capacity for love, which is a huge experience for him and us, considering that they believe they will die much sooner than later.

he’s become wise through all kinds of experiences, but i find the new balance that he has found in his relationships - including raven! - to be big.

anyway, i just wanted to share some thoughts about murphy, because this didn’t leave me alone. i need to learn how to make shorter posts.

The Fantastic Four

Reed, Sue, Johnny, and Ben lead individual teams, each dedicated to a single facet of the FF’s greater mission.

  • Al Ewing (The Ultimates, New Avengers, Mighty Avengers)
  • Stuart Immonen (Star Wars, Nextwave, Empress)

Marvel’s First Family come to realize that they can optimize their impact by each focusing on one of FF’s foundational priorities. Accordingly, each member leads a diverse set of handpicked heroes to pursue their distinct, yet complimentary missions:

THE FELLOWSHIP

Reed assembles a team of cosmic-scale problem solvers. (This is essentially a continuation of Ewing’s Ultimates book, which in many ways was itself a spiritual successor to the Fantastic Four). Reed’s teammates combine intellect and intuition with cosmic power…

  • Core Ultimates memeber Adam Brasher, the Blue Marvel is a key member of the team for his scientific acumen and superhuman power.
  • Tamara Devoux, retains her Captain Universe power and brings a unique kind of cosmic awareness to the group.
  • Tech wizard Toni Ho discovers she is able to expand an infinite array of mission-specific components to her girlfriend Aikku Joniken’s Enigma suit. With Joniken’s blessing, Ho adopts the suit to become Module.

Much like the best Fantastic Four stories and Ewing’s Ultimates book, these solution-oriented missions are cosmic in scope and inspire awe.

Potential spinoff miniseries by Al Ewing and Dustin Weaver.

THE FUTURE FOUNDATION

Sue is as adept with people as her husband is with technology, and sets out to save the world for all humanity. Forming a superpowered NGO intervention operation, she seeks to apply superpowers to problems in ways that don’t necessarily involve “beating people up.” But while they seek to avoid aggressive tactics, they are ready to defend against violent opposing forces. Her handpicked foursome have abilities that appear superficially passive (much like Sue’s own), but it only takes a degree of creative application to reveal the incalculable magnitude of their power…

  • Kitty Pryde, aka Shadowcat, whose intangibility powers are so powerful, they enabled her to phase a moon-sized bullet through planet Earth.
  • Faiza Hussain’s control over biological matter not only enable her to hijack a human’s motor functions, they also make her a world-class healer. While she previously adopted the identity Excalibur, wielding a sword is a bit at odds with a doctor’s oath to “do no harm.” Accordingly, she exchanges the name of a sword for that of a scalpel: Lancet, one more befitting a doctor.
  • Eden Fesi's Manifold powers allow him to move people and matter from one location to another at levels greater than any other Marvel teleporter.

This foursome is far and away the most likable souls one could encounter and the way they carry out their missions is affecting in the most life-affirming way.

Potential spinoff miniseries by G. Willow Wilson and Phil Noto.

THE FANTASTICS

Johnny sets about using celebrity, social media, and marketing to popularize heroism (in a way that’s rare in the contentious Marvel Universe). Equipped with experience (and careful not to repeat the mistakes of the New Warriors), he uses a set of HERBIEs to livestream his team’s exploits. To this end, he populates his team with photogenic, youthful heroes with tons of personal magnetism…

  • America Chavez, aka Miss America; a tough, no-nonsense badass
  • Kate Bishop, aka Hawkeye; who can see through everyone’s bullshit and is armed with sass and sarcasm as sharp as her finely honed skills
  • Noh-Varr, aka Marvel Boy; whose charisma and good looks start to threaten the Torch’s ego (though Johnny doesn’t admit it).

The Torch’s team is the cool kids’ table. The energy in this cast of characters is electric and is brimming with youthful sass and confidence.

Potential spinoff miniseries by Keiron Gillen and Jamie McKelvie.

THE FEARLESS FORAY

Ben is an adventurous explorer in search of exotic locales of the Marvel Universe, both familiar and as-yet-undiscovered. He selects a crew every bit as unusual as he is. Meta-textually, this team is designed to (mostly) be a collection of classic Jack Kirby creations with big personalities. Joining the orange rock-monster is…

  • a robot, Machine Man
  • a T-Rex, Devil Dinosaur
  • and a 9-year old Inhuman prodigy, Moon Girl (while Lunella Lafayette isn’t a Kirby creation like Moon Boy is, her Inhuman lineage does actually make her a member of a Kirby-created race).

This oddball cast brims with clashing personalities and injects a strong dose of unpredictable adventure to the book.

Potential spinoff miniseries by Dan Slott and Mike Allred.


Shifting from four individuals to four missions injects the Fantastic Four book with new blood. Instead of sacrificing the four personalities at the core, the new additions actually emphasize the identities of the classic members. It also approximates how the Fantastic Four might have been different under the leadership of Sue, Johnny or Ben.

By giving the FF “day jobs” with a cast of characters distinct from the core family unit, the book can better portray Marvel’s “first family” with recognizable and realistic family dynamics. With more time spent away from the family, the more valuable those moments become to the characters and the reader.

Having four equal narratives running throughout the book provides creative storytelling opportunities, from having four intersecting stories run parallel to one another in an Robert Altman manner. There could even be an arc or annual to be presented in four-quadrants of two-page spreads in the manner of  Timecode.

anonymous asked:

i really liked your meta about sansa/littlefinger but i found out you ship sansan :/ don't you think that what he's doing to her is at least a little bit abusive? sexually and emotionally? their relationship is SO disturbing and creepy, he's a grown ass man clearly sexually & romantically attracted to an 11/12 year old girl, WHY would you ship it???? i don't understand.

First, thank you for liking my meta.  Here’s the thing… I wrote that meta based on textual analysis and in response to how the book community discusses Sansa’s complicated and conflicting feelings toward LF.  Many people mistakenly believe this is Sansa becoming his protege.  I did not write it with the intention of telling some shippers why they are “wrong.”     

As far as shipping goes, I’m a very ship and let ship person.  This is even when, and especially when, it’s a ship I find weird or distasteful.  I stay in my little sandbox and I don’t pay attention to (let alone try to police) what other people want to ship.  I’m too old to be barking up that tree.  I’d rather spend time writing metas or my own fanfic.  Now if I actually am going to argue with anyone on the internet, it’s going to be about the actual ASOIAF text with evidence to back up my position.  Even then I’m highly unlikely to seek out such a debate but on a rare occasion some land on my doorstep.  So…

As to your questions, let me start with the age issue first.  Let me be clear in real life such a relationship would be criminal and immoral, as it should be.  But this is a fictional world where there are vastly different ideas of what is age appropriate.  Remember, the proper way to raise your seven-year-old boy is to take him to a beheading and make him watch everything without flinching (and that’s from our beloved Ned).  I have yet to meet anyone who cried child abuse over this or stopped reading at that point.  So I don’t put too much emphasis on chronological age in questions of morality in the series.  

What I do look at is Sansa’s level of maturity and understanding of relationships and sex.  I do care about her agency.  I don’t ship Sansan (or ship her with anyone) in the early books because she’s still mentally a child and an abused prisoner of war.  I want her to come to her own decisions about what she wants at her own pace, on her own terms.  The good news is GRRM does too.  He rightly separated them at the night of the Blackwater to evolve independently, but parallel to one another.  Alayne II in AFFC is my favorite chapter of this transition to womanhood and maturity, contemplations on sex and love from a young woman’s perspective. 

 I would highly recommend this non-shipper essay on Sansa’s Sexual Maturation by sweetsunray that deals with the unkiss and Sansa figuring out what she wants. (pssst!  It’s Sandor).  A large part of her struggle is coming to accept the fact that what she does want is not the ideal as she always believed it would be.  The books are full of people just wanting who they want and it has nothing to do with the ideal standards.      

Do I think Sandor is abusive to Sansa? Like Joffrey and Littlefinger are abusive toward her?  No.  Definitely not.  I think he was at times impatient and frustrated with her superficiality, naivete, and immaturity.  He’s too uncompromising and overly harsh at times with the truth as he sees it.  Yet, Sansa is not afraid to challenge him when he’s being awful.  She is totally afraid of saying the wrong thing in front of Joffrey or Littlefinger.  

The only reason Sandor cares at all about her is that she cared first.  She responded to his secret, his vulnerability with compassion.  For once in his life, someone took his side after the system rewarded his brother and failed him.  It’s not at this point anything romantic or sexual for either of them.  He responds to her compassion by being protective and supportive through her abuse.  She reawakens in him a desire to be better.  He’s a jaded idealist, not a nihilist.  He does seek out her attention because he does crave a connection with someone, even if he can’t people around her.   He doesn’t want the intimacy to end because of his loud and clumsy mishandling.  He’s also frustrated with himself that he even wants a connection in the first place because he hates/fears the vulnerability that comes with it.  He’s a ball of conflicting emotions about her that he has no experience in how to sort out.  It’s very important that Sandor is written as someone who is as inexperienced in relationships as Sansa.  It levels the playing field between them.    

It’s not until Sansa has obviously started developing into a woman that he even notices her in that way (because the whole castle has).  He’s very drunk and he blurts out the inappropriate comment about her body.  It’s a very bungled attempt at flirting coming from someone who is also very emotionally stunted.  BUT… after talking with her he realizes that mentally she is still very innocent.  He knows it’s wrong, so he backtracks out of there as fast as he can, falling into an awkward silence.  That is the very worst of anything sexual that actually happens between them and he backs off.  Even the night of the Blackwater he is very drunk and his behavior is scary and wildly inappropriate, but it never crossed the line into permanent damage.  He never actually did anything sexual to her. He also could have forced her to go with him, but he did not.  She made her choice, it hurt, but in the end, he respected her decision to not go with him.  Do I think maybe he wanted to kiss her?  Yeah, probably.  But he didn’t.  He is not Gregor.  He is not a rapist.  He cares about her autonomy.  He cares about her consent even if he kind lost his mind (from trauma) for a minute there which he really, really regretted.  

This all says problematic to me, not creepy.  There are issues to overcome.  Good!  Bring it on!  That makes a story.  Littlefinger is creepy.  He totally does not care about her consent, boundaries, or discomfort to say the very least.  Men of all different ages have groped her, forced kisses on her, stripped her, beat her, and have attempted to rape her.   

If you don’t ship Sansan that’s totally fine by me.  If it doesn’t speak to you, that’s cool.  Ship and let ship.  I will say Sansa x whoever shippers are probably going to be very disappointed come TWOW.  All the mountains of text evidence point to future Sansan.  I got a huuuuuge meta coming out soon that deals with all that complete with tons of evidence to back up my analysis. Bottom line, I ship future Sansan because GRRM ships it and Sansa ships it.  Whatever makes that baby girl happy I want her to have.  The good news is when the author reunites them it will be when they are both really ready and have dealt with the respective issues that made an earlier relationship a terrible idea.                             

Voy a decirte algo que tú ya sabes, el mundo no es todo de color rosa y arco iris. El mundo es un lugar terrible, y por muy duro que seas, es capaz de arrodillarte a golpes y tenerte sometido permanentemente si tú no se lo impides. Ni tú, ni yo ni nadie golpea más fuerte que la vida, pero no importa lo fuerte que golpeas, sino lo fuerte que pueden golpearte. Y lo aguantas mientras avanzas. Hay que soportar sin dejar de avanzar, así es como se gana. Si tú sabes lo que vales ve y consigue lo que mereces, pero tendrás que soportar los golpes. Y no podrás estar diciendo que no estas donde querías llegar por culpa de él, de ella ni de nadie, eso lo hacen los cobardes y tú no lo eres. ¡Tú eres mejor que eso!.

Okay, but Charlotte and the ongoing non-presence of god, combined with a lot of the statements Neil Gaiman makes about Gods and ultimate power in the comics (it’s boring, it’s fleeting) makes me feel like godliness is corrupting here. You can make new universes, but being a god hurts so much. 

Charlotte is a tragedy. Her family is broken and she can’t fix it. Her universe is made in a way she doesn’t like, she can’t understand. On a more meta-textual level, she’s an ancient, forgotten goddess in a modern world. Her husband is worshipped. She is discarded. The story is already told, long, long, ago. All she can hope for is another shot. 

This ending was very Gaiman, in the best way. 

honestly gay movies/media need!!! feelings and colors and lyricism it doesn’t need crappy intellectualized minimalism it needs to be FELT because this is how it can truly impact those of us that desperately need it to be real and heartfelt like I don’t…. want yet another indie movie in which someone blow their nose and they take five minutes to show it for x meta textual reason i need beautiful music and colors and light and most of all dedication from the people shooting and writing it… i need HEART

Yuri’s Welcome to the Madness v. the 90s

One of the major themes of Yuri on Ice as a show is the great potential that lies in figure skating as a means of self expression. Yuri’s Welcome to the Madness program is a wonderful example of the theme, serving as a furious and brash contrast to Yuuri and Victor’s more sedate and gracious Stammi Vicino that shows the truly large range of expression possible through figure skating.

However, I watched the whole thing with my jaw open because on a meta-textual level Welcome to the Madness is also a hilarious lampoon of the hyper-masculinity movement within figure skating of the late 80s and 90s.

Context: For reasons too complicated to get into: post-World War II, figure skating would be largely perceived as a feminine sport, women athletes were and still are more widely celebrated than their male counterparts in terms of recognition. In the past half a century figure skating has tried a number of time to “re-brand” itself in order that male figure skaters would not be emasculated for participating in the sport.

All this to say, that in the late 80s and 90s, male figure skating would make a particularly memorable push to disassociate itself with its feminine reputation, a strategy of emphasizing the masculinity and ‘macho-ness’ of individual skaters almost cartoonishly in commentary and promotional material. The most prominent examples would probably be Kurt Browning and Elvis Stojko.

Kurt Browning is four time World Champion and first skater ever to complete a quadruple jump in competition. He also came from rural Canada and was the son of a cowboy, a fact that has little to do with skating yet is impossible to escape from if you research him at all because it gets mentioned constantly. You can tell he’s a masculine heart throb because even his wikipedia picture has him wearing tight leather pants and looking slightly uncomfortable about it.

Elvis Stojko is a three time World Champion and two time silver Olympic medalist he is also the first skater to land a quad jump combination. He’s also a total dork who skated to the soundtrack of Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story during the Olympics because he’s a martial artist too! (it’s delightful, the commentators salivating how ‘epic’ the soundtrack to a Bruce Lee biopic is also wonderful)

It’s really apparent when listening to commentators or reading the promotional material surrounding these skaters that their identities as ATHLETES and STRAIGHT were basically shoved into your face as much as possible.

So, the distinction between ‘effeminate’ or ‘masculine’ skating had little to do with the skating itself and everything to do with arbitrary codifiers like an interest in more stereotypically masculine recreation activities or music choices leading to a radically different perception and marketing of the athletes within the media. Just listen to the commentators, like this skate where the commentator felt the need to start mooning about how Elvis is “so tough, physically and mentally.”

It’s worth remembering that the AIDs epidemic was going on at the same time and that the figure skating community’s reaction to the tragedy was mixed and complicated, especially when some were pushing for recognition for the fact that this disease was hitting the figure skater world particularly hard and others were doing everything they were to deny the idea that figure skating community was suffering from the impact of AIDs more than other sports.

I bring this all up in relation to Yuri and Welcome to the Madness because rock music and wearing tight leather pants was basically the epitome of what was pushed as the masculine ideal during the 90s in male figure skating.

(This is Elvis Stojko from an ice show recently because I couldn’t find any earlier pictures of him being a leather wearing bad boy, but it was a thing)

So here we have Yuri wearing everything that superficially would mark him as one of those skaters, and then he lowers his sunglasses and is actually wearing eye makeup and proceeds to tear the entire dichotomy down.

This is actually kind of a culmination of Yuri’s journey as an artist, since here he’s performing what on the surface is the anti-thesis of what traditional artistic skating is, there’s no ballerina here! He’s wearing LEATHER PANTS and SUNGLASSES and skating to ROCK MUSIC, yet as he skates he uses movements that are sexy in ways that alternate between traditionally masculine and feminine ideas of sexiness.

For example Stojko in his Van Halen routine also includes a dramatic slide at the end, but Yuri’s slide is pure Johnny Weir, whose own career suffered because his skating didn’t fit the mold of how a male figure skater should present and move their body.

I know that someone on the Yuri on Ice staff mentioned that they were inspired to have Yuri put together his own gala in a night because they heard of Misha Ge doing so, but many of the skates seem so carefully designed to transgress what it traditionally thought of as acceptable for male skaters in search of more fuller self expression through their sport and art that Yuri adhering to all the superficial codifiers of the 90s NO HOMO male figure skating while simultaneously getting his glove removed by the teeth of his male best friend strikes me as not entirely coincidental.

The Thriller Jacket

‘‘The jacket was designed by Deborah Nadoolman Landis, wife of director John Landis. Landis had also designed Indiana Jones’s jacket in Raiders of the Lost Ark and many others. The candy-apple-red jacket with black strips was noted for its many zips and its “M” logo, with the angular, rigid shoulder work protruding out over the tops of the arms. Landis stated that she designed the jacket to specifically help Jackson appear more “virile”. In the video, Jackson dances in the jacket with zombies.

Christine Gledhill in her book Stardom: Industry of Desire (1991) discusses Jackson’s overall style in Thriller as follows: “In ‘Thriller’, Michael’s outfit and its stylistic features – the wet-look hairstyle, the ankle-cut jeans and the letter ’M’ emblazoned on his jacket – reinforce this meta-textual superimposition of role. If Michael, as the male protagonist, is both boyfriend and star, his female counterpart in the equation of 'romance’ is both the girlfriend and at this meta-textual level, the fans.

Fashion designer Zaldy was responsible for a redesigned version of the jacket for the planned but later cancelled This Is It concerts. It had an imitation of blood on its shoulders, and on the inside a stamp resembling the feline beast Jackson turns into in the video.’’

horizonproblems reblogged your post and added:

If you don’t mind me asking - what are thoughts on Kaladin/Shallan as a (potential) romantic couple? Recently someone told me that they think there’s a lot of unresolved sexual/romantic tension between the two, and I… Just don’t see it, partially because of what you mention here (boots scene, chasm scene, Kaladin generally being exasperated in Shallan’s presence and thinking so).
I’m not trying to start a ship war (I don’t really care if people ship it, personally I headcanon Kaladin as aroace), so I understand if you don’t want to answer this! But I know that as an aromantic person a lot of the romance nuance/flirting stuff flies right over my head, so I was left wondering if my initial assessment was blatantly wrong…

I wanted to respond to this in a separate post lest the conversation overtake themalhambird’s original, so…

First, a necessary preface:  I have been crossing my fingers against Kaladin/Shallan since… before WoK came out.  I happened to read a galley copy, and pretty much as soon as I saw the descriptions they get in the flap copy, I had the sinking feeling that they would be the Designated Hetero Hero Ship.  The fact that they didn’t meet at all in WoK was gratifying!  But… WoR.

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‘He will avenge us’

re: the final exchange between Obi-Wan and Maul in ‘Twin Suns’

*** This is an edited version of my response to ~ this discussion ~ regarding the mention of ‘The Chosen One’ in the final scene between Obi-Wan and Maul. While I completely understand the frustration over the use of this term, I feel that, on a meta-textual level, the conversation as a whole refers to both Luke and Anakin, aka the ‘Twin Suns’ of Tatooine

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semi-slaughtomatic  asked:

So I saw that gifset of Kripke's commentary on that season 3 episode (I'm a newbie watcher but I started the new season and and slowly working my way through!) and I guess I'm a little confused? Kripke is basically saying "yeah Dean really wants that apple pie life" and when I've been going through and reading people's meta, I've seen a lot of people's opinion (especially season 6 metas) that kind of disagree and that Dean really doesn't want that suburban life. Any opinions? Thanks much :-)

Heya! <3 (I really hope I’m reading this right and you’ve watched at least season 6 because I’m spoiling big things up to the end of season 6 in this reply so maybe just bookmark this otherwise… hahaha)

https://elizabethrobertajones.tumblr.com/post/162713109665/sensitivehandsomeactionman-eric-kripke-on

Oh! Yeah, I reblogged this with the sense of irony about what Kripke was saying in place that you get from being a long-time watcher or deeply embedded in the meta community :P (I should have a /irony tag I use for the benefit of people knowing I’m thinking deep dark shade at whatever I’m reblogging but you know not in a mean way just in a this goes way deeper than what it looks like to me but maybe I just don’t feel like commenting right now :P)

I can’t remember if I have a Dean x Lisa tag that’s actually well-kept except for cute gifsets but 3x02 and 3x10 probably have a fair amount of discussion about it if you want to dig deeper… But I have literally just watched Dean’s conversation with Rufus in 3x15 which reminds me that this was a season-long arc, and 3x10 was a weird little part of it… 3x02 sets up that Dean has a sort of wistfulness for what he COULD have had, and 3x10 and 3x12 (and all these are Gamble-related episodes) have stuff about Dean yearning - this bit and the conversation with Victor where he makes it blatantly obvious that even with Sam he has a sense that he might want more from life and he is not currently getting it - Victor’s comparison of ex-wives and empty apartments is paralleled to Dean’s feelings. And in 3x15 Rufus warns him that this is what he has to look forward to becoming if he survives. (In 12x14 we had a parallel where Ketch buys his way in the door the same way Dean buys his way in the door with Rufus & scotch, but it was subverted in so many ways, it just seemed like the BMoL had sketchy intel you might be able to buy Dean this way.)

Anyway, by the end of the season the message is quite clear that Dean sort of years for it but can’t have it and in many ways has chosen this life of saving people over it. Though he’s dying for Sam, and never un-wishes that or can even think of it, from about the midpoint of the season he wants to find a way to break the deal but I think a lot of that is driven by not wanting to be a demon rather than wanting to grow old, since becoming a demon will pretty quickly undo all the good work Dean did saving people, he’d have to assume. 3x09 gives him any motivation to fight rather than cheerfully stroll off to Hell because Sam’s alive and that’s all that matters, you know?

I think in the context of season 3 the Lisa stuff was pretty interesting because I think Dean can have a contradictory yearning but Lisa is a ghost of an idea, literally where she fizzles out of the dream in the same way ghosts disappear, and to feel wedded to the hunter lifestyle and in many ways he’s been rejecting it from the start… In 1x08 (Bugs) especially he’s making a point about beeing skeeved out by suburbia and the idea of living SUCH a normal life. In 2x20 we see him as a civilian and he enjoys it for a day or two to hang out with Mary and Sam and Jess, and I’ve written a LOT on the over-lap of Carmen in that episode and Lisa in 6x01 since they’re connected by djinn dreams and I feel like the message is his year with Lisa was emotionally/functionally practically the same to Dean as if he’d been strung up in a warehouse the whole time. (That’s something in my 6x01 tag or 2x20 depending which you feel like scrolling through :P Sorry, I’m kind of in advanced brain bleeh from sitting in a noisy room so you can get surface brain rambling to answer this but no research or links in this state >.>) 

Anyway in 2x20 he unequivocally rejects the civilian life because people died without him doing his job, even though he called Carmen “the One” and everything else seemed fixable or exciting to him, including his relationship with Sam. It was after discovering he’d “un-wished” all their work as hunters he angrily appealed to John about why it was his job, before stomping off to find and kill the djinn, and un-make his wish, assuming at this point it was a wish and not a dream. (I still call it a wish-verse sometimes because of how DEAN analysed it and I find it FASCINATING to look at that way when it comes to these decisions, while I’d just call it the djinn dream when looking at it from another angle). 

I suppose Lisa comes not long after but he goes to see her as part of a farewell tour revisiting the best hookup of his life, and ends up smacked with the potential he’s mission out on of raising a kid and all that - a long-term investment he can’t get involved in for one year (do you feel the knife turning :P) because that’s not fair on them and offers them no long-term stability. He CAN’T make a home when he has a 1 year demon deal weighing on him, so the episode is just there to psychologically torture him. I think he never dreamed of suburbia before Lisa in 3x02 but by 3x10 we can see he took some unexpected emotionally scarring just from being told he CAN’T have something. Because posing the question opens up “what if”s (this incidentally is my entire rationale when you boil it down for why the male siren proves Dean’s bi :P). Dean had a moment to seriously imagine a NICE life where he would be with Lisa and have Ben as a son and it’s impossible for he can even start to have it. And in 3x15 Rufus confirms that even if Dean survives (or comes back from Hell as it turns out), being a crotchety old hunter who only opens his door to people if they show up with nice Scotch is about as much as he can hope to look forward to.

I think that’s a bad message too but it gels more with Dean’s outlook and experiences and I think helps him shut away the feelings he could ever have had more or that he was being unfairly denied, in a combination of personal choices to hunt/seeing the benefits of doing it over a normal life, and pessimism about his lifespan or what they can reasonably expect from their lives. In 5x18 he tells Lisa that when he thinks of himself being happy it’s with her, because of the scarring I mentioned that 3x02 specifically denies him this endgame and leaves an impression of it in his psyche as the Thing Dean Can’t Have, but DOES turn into a nice thought to hold onto as a what if. And Sam tells him to go for it and he does, and by the end of season 6 it’s a “never mention this again or I’ll kill you” situation and Dean doesn’t think about endgame out loud for like 5 more years until season 10, and the question is slooowly reintroduced through hesitant confessions and car conversations and meeting a pair of married hunters at a bar one day, to finally get the idea that while Dean’s unequivocally written off suburbia, wife & kids, there’s other things he could get out of life to make him happy and feel less like Victor or Rufus, dark mirrors of his present and future, like the ghosts of endgame visiting a long-term-relationship Scrooge :P 

But yeah Kripke saying that Dean secretly has a romantic soft spot for the normal life and fluffy romance, personified in this case by Lisa, is really because he’s talking compare and contrast to Sam. He says Sam isn’t interested in Bela that way really, he’s just horny and they know no women really so… that happened. (I side-eye but whatever, different discussion :P) and that’s in contrast to Sam’s supposed sweet and nerdy surface layer, while Dean’s got the macho horndog outer layer so Kripke’s explaining in 1 go performing!Dean (and Sam) and that Sam n Dean are yin and yang to each other (which, again, in Baby, we have that great shot of them in red and blue contrasting colours, sleeping top & tail in the Impala from above that demonstrates this… Can’t tell if you’ve seen season 11 actually or joined in season 12 (oops apologies for those spoilers too, I tried to keep them super vague and if you’ve seen season 12 you sort of know where it led to >.>) but this is what it looked like:

Originally posted by pagingdoctorsaxxy

from a meta POV it’s absolutely one of my favourite shots of Sam and Dean in the entire show. Anyway it’s visually demonstrating the same thing Kripke is saying in that commentary. Sam presents one way so they write Dean presenting in the absolute opposite way, and then choose to subvert both presented faces with an image each to absolutely destroy that image and show something deep underneath. From the way he was talking it sounded like they thought the Bela thing first so the Lisa thing might literally just have been a part of it because it was amusing to them to do that with Sam, and the rule is absolutely probably 1st thing in their character bible to always make Sam and Dean at odds with each other even if it’s in some innocent visual/character demonstration.

(This is why I hate Buckleming writing btw - they’ve been increasingly writing Sam and Dean as an utterly unified unit who think and breathe on the same wavelength and it drives me nuts because that is not their dynamic at all no matter how fan favourite “winsync” is (which is of course a totally different thing to do with them working well together meta-textually as actors and in the text as kids raised closely together, and who also have worked together for most of/their entire adult lives so of course they naturally move and talk together sometimes - I can be in sync with my twin and we have core personality overlap but we’re also utterly different people in extremely obvious ways e.g. quiet vs chatty - guess which :P)… In Buckleming’s hands it just means they can use Sam and Dean to alternately deliver exposition in lengthy talking scenes as if they’re one character, and that exposition to Mick in 12x17 when he “Hello boys” them in the Bunker was one of their worst incidents so far >.>)

Anyway, I don’t think that makes the Lisa thing insincere especially as it sounds like 3x10 more than 3x02 actually cemented her as Dean’s imaginary choice of perfect dream girl to fill the space Carmen the El Sol ad lady previously held, when it came to the writing. 3x02 stand alone is good to torment Dean as a “Hahahaha you will never have this” but 3x10 builds on it and shows them being intuitive to the character and things that make sense to write him… And I think from the very start they were aware of the contradiction and that Dean might sort of have a soft spot/dream of the normal apple pie life but that he was also at the same time profoundly aware of all the ways in which he hadn’t chosen it, it wasn’t his life, and there were abundant reasons he wasn’t having it and even in the same core places this dream resides, didn’t want it. If you go deep in my 3x02/2x20/6x01 Lisa x Dean metas (again, sorry, I’ll add tags to this post at least :P) you’ll probably find the post I made collecting my rewatch notes as I discovered this subtextual story through the season, realised where it all came from later, and by the end of the season realised that they knew and had talked themselves out of it being something Dean could have because the subtext took the same route as the actual Dean and Lisa arc in season 6, probably because Gamble helped craft the entire thing in season 3 and then brought Lisa back for season 6 and had a whole season to play the entire thing over again. So I feel like that suggests Dean talked himself out of it too with Rufus and Victor’s help, and fundamentally never changed track even with season 5 & 6′s Lisa stuff, because that closed the book on it so hard we have this parallel to Dean and Rufus in 12x14 and the idea he can have something more with a hunter maybe or ~someone in the life~ is now the subtext under that in the same way Kripke talked about him having this squishy interior to do with Lisa back in season 3.

And here we have the long winded meta about Robert’s clothes literally no one asked for. It’s time. This has been burning in my drafts for the past twelve thousand years.

I am going to approach the issue in two parts. A textual analysis and a meta-textual analysis. Basically, I’m gonna look at Robert’s clothes both as diegetic elements, meaning as style choices made by the character in-universe, and as non-diegetic elements, meaning as choices made by the Emmerdale production team. Yeah. It’s that kind of meta. Strap in, folks. We’re about to go on a journey.

Keep reading

reylo, a manifesto pt. II: welcome to the rollercoaster ride to hell

Thanks to everyone for your responses to the first reylo, a manifesto post. It was reinvigorating to know that many of you are as new to fandom as I am–coming into it at a similarly adult age, and just as mildly obsessed.

Before we begin I want to acknowledge my mistake in attempting to define our collective (a very glaring logical error). It’s sufficient to say we’re all people who appreciate Rey and Kylo Ren’s dynamic within The Force Awakens, and that we see it as the first step of many which will define the new trilogy. Whatever anyone says, this isn’t speculation as much as it is fact.

Whether we “ship” it, whether or not the hero/villain dynamic remains, redemption or not, ‘reylo’ is about this relationship being a crux of the new story. It is about the age-old battle of light vs. dark taking on a form new to the films but not to the Star Wars universe. In canon we have it represented in the relationships of Quinlan Vos and Asajj Ventress, Thane Kyrell and Ciena Ree. In Legends we have Mara Jade and Luke Skywalker, Darth Revan and Bastila Shan, and so many other examples in which opposites clash, attract, and then ultimately work together for the greater good of the galaxy. The chemistry and power in this dynamic is infinitely more interesting than that between cousins or siblings–a fact which seems to have been lost on most …

Dead Red Herring

… which brings us to the one other thing that we agree on almost unanimously: the “Rey Skywalker” theory is dead (and beginning to smell, on account of it being a red herring that was put out of it’s misery months ago). 

Originally posted by gameraboy

Most of the arguments supporting it have been deflated with the release of Claudia Gray’s Bloodline. Foremost among the canonical shifts the book brought is the fact that Rey was left on Jakku a long time before Ben Solo’s fall and Luke’s disappearance which had yet to occur 6 years before TFA. All theories of why or how Luke would have abandoned his child in the hands of Unkar Plutt, on a harsh, remote world–or why she thinks of him only as a myth–involve Gordian knots of speculation, deception, mind erasure, and questionable mothers. The simplest solution is the most likely: she is not his daughter.

That won’t stop people from clinging to the desperate hope that it’s true, but it certainly makes it unlikely. The mere fact that most people presumed Rey Skywalker before and after the film should tell you that this plot point was doomed from conception. If this had been the planned twist of the story, it would show up now as a whimper–not a bang. This is not good storytelling, or at least not as the basis for a franchise worth billions.

So while some may feel it’s too early to celebrate the end of this theory-crafting disaster, I sure as hell am going to. For those of us who’ve spent the last 5 months being told we were incest-loving idiots for even questioning it this news is a sweet, sweet victory. All evidence points elsewise, whether you want to believe it or not. 

If I have to eat my hat in one and half years, so be it. It’s enough for me that in the past few weeks we’ve seen the larger Star Wars fan base begin to imagine a story which doesn’t rely on the false premise of Rey’s parentage. As more of the indentured fans acknowledge this possibility we should also begin to see honest and open discussion on what effect this will have on perceptions of the film and its characters by the general public. 

Before this happens, however, I want to discuss where we stand as a fandom.

This small, but dedicated niche of the Star Wars community emerged out of a need to share our interpretation of the film with others–most specifically those who wouldn’t mock us immediately without hearing what we had to say about it. In the past month we’ve seen a gradual shift in the public attitude towards it–but just barely. In a way, it feels like this battle has only just begun.

In the past we’ve dealt with two issues: the “spiral of silence” which naturally quells opinion, and the need to appeal to authority for clarifications on the new canon. Both have worked together, in a way, to stifle our voices.

We know the appeal to authority can only be resolved by the occasional tidbit from The Powers That Be. As we’ve seen over the past few months, every time one of these breadcrumbs is dropped the whole flock gets excited and, inevitably, agitated.

The off-the-cuff statements made by people like J.J. Abrams and Pablo Hidalgo get picked apart until there’s barely anything left before being dismissed as “misdirection” or “misleading.” This response makes sense when we’re dealing with the most tightly guarded, NDA-bound story in film history. If anything, it should make it abundantly clear that we are not going to get the answers we need–or at least not any ones people will sign their souls over for.

So what do we, really, have power over? We can present our theories, our ideas, our thoughts, our interpretations, and our feelings in a clear and logical way. We have the power to stand up for what we believe in–even if it’s as simple and seemingly inconsequential as a different reading of a film.

Hence my question from the end of manifesto pt. 1 remains–and will continue to: how do we take our place within the larger Star Wars fandom as a legitimate faction without compromising the argument that “reylo” is more than just a ship?

I’m going to present a few barriers I’ve seen to this, only to try and spark discussion on this topic. As always–I’m just another person of many. You may not share my agenda, or my experience.  Hopefully you will be interested in adding to it or contradicting it. You’re all a part of this–so many of you much more than I am.

Agree to Disagree

For me, personally, the Tumblr reylo community has been a safe space. Besides the perpetual reposts of NSFW content (enjoyable, of course, but forcing me to hide my phone screen at all times in public) most people in the fandom have approached the topics I’m interested in with intellectual and respectful commentary.

But this little corner of the internet is insular. Homogeneity is comforting even as it can stifle creativity and discourage people from sharing opposing viewpoints. In the worst scenarios it turns people into parodies, repeating the same arguments ad nauseam. This is especially fruitless when directed at those who have no intention of listening.

Originally posted by scarecroe

It’s something I’ve felt very hypocritical of late on, mostly because I’ve waxed pedantic on one medium only to remain silent on all others. But I’ve realized recently that I’ve kept my distance from attempting to represent my viewpoints in a public sphere for a simple reason: the mountain of evidence that I have climbed over the past year isn’t something I’m going to be able to bury others in quickly or concisely. Even if I were blessed with the ability to write a compelling < 500 word argument, the fact that most people will ignore it or deride it is the norm.

Consuming media in today’s age generally means being much too excited for something to come out, processing one’s positive and negative feelings for a few days or weeks, and moving on. A general audience can’t relate to the need to dig through tons of supplementary materials for the little bits of canonical value one needs to shore up theorycrafting bets. The film Prometheus is a wonderful example of why expecting people to experience a story this way doesn’t work. Though we live in an age where trailers give away key plot points and major news networks reveal spoilers we have to assume the average person just doesn’t give a shit.

Originally posted by boysaresuicidal2

Much more than that–while meta-textual content mining is some people’s drug of choice, you can be sure that it is anathema to those who have fixated on their own interpretations as being right.

I’m not limiting this judgement to those who disagree with or dislike “reylo”. Even within our own community we have to combat the entropy that inevitably sets in as we accept one viewpoint over another. Discussions around the #Ashgate and #Reygate events last month (and I will happily continue to support adding -gate to anything as a tongue-in-cheek reminder not to take ourselves too seriously) quickly devolved into how incompetent the writers/creators were in feeding the public misinformation or conflicting narratives.

From an objective view, this minutiae doesn’t really matter. So why does it become end-all be-all for some of us? There’s a simple enough solution: we have to be prepared for differences in our interpretation. Not only that–we should welcome them. Disagreement is what inspires us to create. A stable state generally equals an unchallenged state. This is boring, and if you adhere to the ideal of a Socratic seminar, not good for logical discourse.

Meta is a discussion, not a diatribe. There is always the option to disagree and to do so respectfully and openly. There’s a pithy saying that there are no bad ideas: the real meaning is that it’s easy to criticize. In doing so, we can easily shut down opinions before they are fully formed. It is important for our community to continue to spread the love of discussion. By doing so we’ll drown out the people more concerned with spreading their one-dimensional rhetoric.

On the subject of those loud voices–they aren’t going away any time soon. They are a normal now expected part of fandom culture, and although their behavior can be abhorrent the people behind them are just people. There are very simple and effective ways to deal with them–the first and foremost being to not take them personally, or seriously, unless they deserve it.

Upping the “Anti”

As we’ve witnessed since December–once the initial cacophony of a new fandom begins to fade, a second wave crashes in. As many of these people were unable to find anything to change their minds on their initial takeaway of the film, it’s likely they’ll continue to adhere to their prejudices. They’ll bring their understanding of the material and what they liked about it to the discussion, but unless they are presented with and/or acknowledge past evidence they are going to assume your viewpoint is defined by the same precepts.

Originally posted by xxchanelx

They may like many of the things that you do. Or maybe they won’t like the same things–but are unfortunately so immature they don’t understand that putting effort into hating something shows a degree of obsession and investment far more advanced than the average fan. Regardless of motive, on Tumblr they’ll use your tags, your anon asks, your spaces, and they will dump their vitriol into the ether like screaming marmots. Here’s an example, courtesy of @ohtze

They are young (or old), they don’t know any better (or maybe they do). They are antis, they are us, they are no one. This is the internet: where everyone is wrong, the points are made up, and trolls are hiding under absolutely every rock. If this troubles you, you might need to consider finding a new sphere to operate within. This is not a gentle place, for anyone.

But that does not mean we can’t make it a better place for everyone. Remember, if a person’s arguments have resorted to ad hominem attacks or other logical fallacies, they have already lost the battle. This is true for all parties involved; becoming antagonistic does not bode well for making a point. I suggest not trying to fight fire with fire unless you are absolutely comfortable with the possibility of being burnt. I do however, suggest informed response.

If you are harassed by certain parties, please make sure you defend yourself with date-stamped screenshots of this behavior (bullies cannot delete screenshots) and use the Tumblr report function when necessary to report hate speech, threats, or other violations of community guidelines.

Much more importantly, for those of you dealing with harassment or bullying from without or within the community, now or in the past, I want to send you a very direct message: we’re here with you. If you need to talk or vent or share what you’ve gone through, please feel free to do so–including privately, to me. I will be happy to listen and empathize, and I’m sure many others witnessing this thread will offer the exact same thing. This is a safe space insofar as we create it to be.

It’s Just a Ride

On a final note, let’s remember that you alone can know and understand your love and appreciation for the film and its characters. Don’t let the judgments or doubts of others interfere upon those ideas. Read them, study them, respond to them (if they deserve it) but don’t think for a moment that someone has it figured out better than you. Or vice versa. The moment you assume that power as it relates to someone, is the moment this ceases to be a community and starts becoming a collective. 

We are not the Borg–we are all going to have different voices, opinions, theories, etc. This strengthens our position vs. undermining it because it completely detonates any criticism that we have not considered all perspectives.

And while I understand the need for validation from the creators and creative executives when there is a large portion of the internet directing baseless prattle in your direction, I want to reassure you that such responses have no bearing on a story that is already written.

The marmots will keep on screaming until no one bothers to listen to them. In the meantime, let’s continue to celebrate the effort the fans have put into understanding and extracting information from the film and supplementary materials. I promise you that at least some of it is right. More than likely, we’re ahead of the curve in recognizing the subtext of the story and having an appreciation for it. When the day comes when the general audience is forced to re-evaluate their perceptions, you can be sure they’ll be looking back through the archives to question what it was they missed.

Originally posted by so-sinnlos-wie-mathe

As one last personal note–I am going to freely admit that I have no idea what I am doing in a fandom. I am the magical age most of you that are also new to this have listed: early 30s. I am the unapologetic casual even as I cosplay and seek out autographs from my favorite comics artists. I’d separated myself from the identity of fan–probably because of how much backlash I experienced as a teenager in embodying it.

As I’ve come to realize my own identity now within a fandom, I’ve begun to realize how deterministic and limiting my original assumption of being a fan was. You don’t have to like everything, or agree with everything, or follow everything, or care about everything, to be a fan.

If you are like me, as you slip into this role you’ll grow more comfortable with its linguistics, with this identity and its quirks. And you’ll also grow to resent it, because it will have an entirely different meaning for other people–people who feel the need to tout the longevity or depth of their interest as some kind of measuring stick by which all others must be judged. Like the people who think their personal megalomania can permeate any farther than their computer screen–they are just marmots. Don’t listen to them. Be a fan as you want to be.

Since this has become part of my identity again, my need to share that with other people has grown. I can’t thank you enough for being the funniest, most whimsical, and most welcoming bunch of people I’ve met in the hell that is the internet. With that said, I’m taking a step back for the months of May and June. I’ll be working on a fan-fiction project that is as near and dear to me as writing meta. I’ll be bolstering my understanding of the films and characters and stories others have put so much time and effort into exploring in order to understand their meaning for me.

I largely encourage you to pursue something similar, rather than looking for validation externally or arguing with marmots. But if you feel the need to do so please check out the Reylo Meta Library 2.0 and the wide variety of authors and viewpoints which spiderweb away from these works. We have a fabulous group of people within the TFA fandom who support our community and combat disinformation daily: @starwarsnonsense @bastila-bae @ohtze @emperorpalpantene @seankayos @and-then-bam-cassiopeia @oldadastra @reylosource @starwars-hell @peace-passion-reylo @gwendy85 @thehermitsacedia @leicsfox @millicentthecat @official-reylo  @huntedbyacreature @avenrue @dearmisskitty … to name only a scant few of the amazing people in this community. My apologies if this is a short list on account of it being late and my brain being fuzzy–so please feel free to tag additional awesome people in the comments as an introduction for those new to the fandom and welcome them in joining us in Limbo for the next few years. 

Originally posted by absinthundrosen

We have all made a strong case for our reasons in believing in the principles at work here, whether they are canon or not. I can tell you for an absolute fact that people from all sides of the globe wouldn’t have written close to a textbook length volume of interpretative non-fiction without having a very clear and informed understanding of what they’d experienced. 

Nothing matters so much as much as our experience and enjoyment of TFA and the continuation of the new Star Wars canon. And nothing that happens from here until the credits roll on Episode XI is going to change that. So buckle up and enjoy the ride–this is just a ride after all. 

I’m so glad to be on it with you.

Cuando la vida se ponga difícil, recuerda que no es una porqueria, ella solo esta probándote haber si vales la pena

❂  Mi blog AQUI  ❂

@baronsamediswife reblogged your post and added: “This Week On “I Should Be Metaing the Show But I’m Going to Analyze…”

I just read through all of this and while this…

I’m… sorry I had to take a minute and stare at the irony of this…

The next paragraph down from the one you’re talking about.  I may have said things a bit muddled, so let me restate it.

I’ll bet you a dollar that someone will read this post and go “subtext isn’t canon.”  And by the wonderful paradox of “all interpretations are valid” they’re both right and wrong at the same time.  Right now, i this essay, I am metaing the fandom, and the shared belief of fandom interactions is that the subtext existing is canon; in other words, subtext being canon is fandom fanon.

My subcircle of the fandom, my corner, agrees that subtext is canon; that is our fandom common agreement.  Fanon.  We say subtext exists; that there are pieces of filmography, set design, acting, dialogue, that have secondary layers that are there to be interpreted.  That a lot of it is put there purposefully by Wanek or the director de jour or the actors or the writers.  There is a whole other layer to things that, by our understanding and common agreement, we are expected to engage with.  How we interpret it is up for debate, but that the creators are engaging us on that level is something we expect.  (The paragraph after that I went inception level, but the gist there is; the show is presented as postmodern literature, so I have meta-level textual support for my interpretation of the text as being postmodern, my meta of the meta, being correct.  But it’s still meta, and all interpretations are still open, because postmodern interpretation says it’s all valid, and I am approaching things from postmodernism, therefore by definition we’re both right at the same time. I like Schroedinger’s cat how about you?)

Your comment, that “This isn’t canon?”  Is exactly my point, and why I wrote the essay.  Our canons do not match.  Our fundamental definition of what makes canon vs fanon is dependent entirely on our respective sub community and what the community has agreed upon as valid tools for interpretation.