lmao wtf xddd

About the Astrals

…and How Much (read: Little) They Could Really Do, And What They Gave To Do It

Okay, this started as me being pissy over all the “The Astrals are so cruel” “Bahamut is such an asshole” “It’s not fair that they made him do this they could’ve just fixed it themselves” kinds of posts. And then debating with that. And then realizing how long this was getting, and so here we are, it gets its own post.

It’s formatted a bit awkwardly and I am entirely too lazy to make this a pretty post so I’m sorry for my rambling.

And now here’s the stuff~


-Gods tend to have some rules to follow about levels of interference and also the amount of responsibility that the people have to see to their own survival and such. (i.e. the Gods give Humanity the tools but humans gotta do the work)

-There’s also the fact that the Starscourge came from Outer Space and thus could have been outside of their ability to affect, since it wasn’t of Eos.

The second one explains itself I think, so it’s only the first I’ll expand on.

Out of the Astrals, this is what we have to work with us against the Starscourge:

1. Ifrit, the Betrayer. He’s dead and he wouldn’t help anyways since he caused it.

2. Bahamut. Gifted the Oracle with the Trident and magic to cleanse the Starscourge. Gifted the Kings of Lucis with the Crystal, the Ring, and his very own magic, all tools to be used to see to the ending of the Starscourge. He then seems to disappear from Eos (?) and is seen only in the Crystal and then outside of it again only after bonding with Noct, indicating he was within the Crystal the entire time, and unable to do anything outside of it.

3. Titan. He is a little bit trapped under the meteor unfortunately, and it seems only his death is able to clear out the meteor itself and free him, as seen when Noct (and the Empire…) defeats him. So the fact that he’s trapped under the meteor for ~2000 and unable to ever free himself or be freed by the others is probably the most powerful proof of the Astrals’ inability to deal with the Starscourge on their own.

4. Ramuh. …..I hate that we know nothing about Ramuh tbh lol he’s a dead spot. Could be alive, could be dead, could be recently dead, could be 30 years dead, could be thousands of years dead. Who knows, maybe he died way back, maybe Ifrit killed him, or maybe he was just on an intergalactic roadtrip for the last 2000+ years. We don’t know, anything’s possible~! He might like humans, he might hate them, he might not give a crap lol

5. Shiva. She certainly appears to have a fondness for humans. It’s interesting that the Cosmogony supposedly tells of the 24 Messengers, meaning that Gentiana is truly a Messenger or else they would have known she wasn’t who she said she was immediately. So, is Gentiana always Shiva, or did she take her form? (…did someone translate her blurb from the Ultimania guide? does it clear any of this up? the JP is way too complicated for me x_x)

6. Leviathan. Not particularly kindhearted towards humans. Doesn’t necessarily want them all dead the same way Ifrit does, but has no attachment to them and would not likely directly help the other Astrals in removing the Starscourge. She would demand humanity work for and earn her help, so if the other 2~3 were unable to remove the Starscourge with just their power but could have with hers, then that’s just too bad so sad, time for plan B I guess.


So!! Before the crystal and oracles and everything, there were at best 3 Astrals who could deal with the Starscourge, since Leviathan hates humanity, Titan was trapped, and then of course Ifrit was never on this list.

The fact that Titan was trapped by the meteor and they all apparently could do nothing to help him out shows us that they probably didn’t have the power to take care of the Starscourge by themselves anyways.

I believe it was said somewhere that the Crystal was part of the stuff that came from outer space???? I cannot remember and I might be mixing my series’ lores, but I’m mentioning it in case it rings a bell to anyone and if there’s a source if I did remember that right. (ETA: I’m mixing up my lore on this one, disregard lol)


Now on to how the Astrals DID help us~!

There’s a finite number of these Astrals. There’s the Six. That’s it, they’re all we got. But humans…! We propagate our species, but we have relatively short lifespans and a very small amount of magical/life energy in comparison with the Astrals.

So Bahamut gave his weapon, his trident to the Humans, managed a way to give them a magic to purify the Starscourge from each other, and a way to provide protections for settlements, so that they could survive.

And then he gave his magic to humanity, and he gave humanity this crystal which could be used to help protect them, and which would gather the power to eradicate the Starscourge from Eos.

The Omen trailer tells us about the power gathering part, in its way. The Crystal tells Regis that it has seen many deaths but only needs one more, then it can rest. That’s the indication. It’s finally at the point to move on to the next step, but it still needs Noct’s death to see it done.

The point here is that the sacrifices were never personal. People say the Astrals toyed with the humans, but they never once did. Well, not in regards to stuff done to get rid of the Starscourge. I don’t know what they were like back in the days when they seemed to interact with humanity a lot more. (Am I the only one who got that impression? That the Astrals were a lot more active in the lives of humans, until the Astral War?)


And now we get to what did the Astrals sacrifice for humanity - Since they asked that lives be sacrificed to power this, it’s only right that they sacrificed, too, right?

Well, let’s not forget how every single Astral dies for Noct lol

I think this got missed by a lot of people, but yes, the Astrals did die.

Well, I can confirm Shiva, Titan, and Leviathan.

-I assume Bahamut died in giving his power and going into the Crystal, based on some other bits I’ll get to in a moment.

-Ramuh, as I said above, we know nothing about, but him being dead in some way is likely because of what happens with the other three.

-Shiva died 11 years prior. Gigant Shiva (?) was rose up, attacked, and was ultimately defeated by the Empire a year after Tenebrae’s occupation. (I like to think Genti was pissed on Luna’s behalf, but that’s not relevant)

-Noct, the Chocobros, and the Empire do kill Titan at the Disc of Cauthess. The energy released from his death destroys the meteor.

-Leviathan is killed in Altissia and it’s when she dies and her water vortex collapses into a tidal wave that Luna summons Titan to create a breakwater to protect the rest of the city from being destroyed.

(there are news headlines and radio news clips about these things so the proof on most of them is right in the game for you to find~)

Now to why I assume Bahamut and Ramuh are also dead, considering everyone else - That seems to be part of the price of giving their power to humans.

And that’s also why they require such a heavy price from humans.

But each of them are able to be summoned after giving their favor to Noct, so they clearly all have some ability in their deaths. But it doesn’t seem as though they have full ability, y’know? They aren’t really alive anymore, they’re just their soul and no longer their body? I’m not really sure how to describe, just that they are very clearly less than they were before in order to aid humans.

So they sacrificed every bit as much as they asked be sacrificed.

They only made humanity pay the price that was necessary to get the job done.

They needed humanity’s help to overcome the Starscourge. And they didn’t ask for an ounce more than they needed.