It’s come to my attention that amidst the glory that is Wonder Woman many people are saying “This is what a DC movie should be like” and that godforsaken article “the dceu is in trouble everyone liked Wonder Woman” all the while blatantly ignoring the vivid and prominent parallels between Wonder Woman and the other DC movies, specifically Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, because they seem to be at center of all the vitriol. Some of these aren’t parallels necessarily, just things BvS and MoS have been criticized for that magically no one mentioned about Wonder Woman.
Let’s start out with the most obvious, yeah?
1. Wonder Woman was FUN!!!
No. It wasn’t. Let me explain, I had a blast in this movie, it moved me, it made me laugh, it made me cry, it made my blood pump and while I am so blown away by seeing a movie directed with the female gaze and with all these amazing female warriors, this isn’t a FunTM movie. It’s set in World War I for god’s sake. It never shies away from the atrocities experienced by the citizens and soldiers in this war. It shows realistically what PTSD looks like through Charlie. It brings up interesting and complex ideas and hard facts about racism, politics, sexism and the arrogance of mankind. There are light moments for sure, but it isn’t bouncy happy fun all the time. I would say it isn’t humorous or light the majority of the time either. It’s a very serious movie, it expects you to take it seriously and you do. The thing is, Batman v Superman and Man of Steel are the SAME way. There’s humorous moments, light moments, but they are serious movies with complex ideas about heroism and being an immigrant in a strange world and how the darkness can corrupt even the most justice and moral driven of heroes. I had in watching them. I had amazing experiences. So did many others. But none of these movies are “fun” movies. They don’t shy away from sacrifice or darkness. They acknowledge that. You can have fun experiencing the movie, and laugh at its humor, but it isn’t a lighthearted film.
I mean, we’ve all hear the terms “dark and gritty” and “lacking color” when talking about the DCEU, which is frankly bullshit but I digress. Wonder Woman wasn’t really “colorful” either. Themiscyra was, but I mean it’s a magically hidden island of Amazons from ancient times. But as soon as they leave the island, the world is grey and dark and dismal. Diana calls it hideous. But this didn’t seem to detract anyone from enjoying the movie or following the story. Diana’s suit isn’t even that brightly colored, something Henry Cavill’s Superman has been criticized constantly about. Both movies use color and the lack thereof, shadows, darkness, to help tell the story.
3. Mental health/Triggering
Both Wonder Woman and Batman v Superman tackle PTSD in very real, pointed ways. Each depicts scenes where characters clearly struggle with nightmares, triggers, and outbursts from what they’re experiencing. Both did so in a compelling and realistic way and yet one was mocked relentlessly and one was not. Batman v Superman lingers on the mental health issues the characters are experiencing more, but they are central parts of the story and how it progresses. Bruce’s PTSD is what allows him to be manipulated by Lex’s games. Charlie’s PTSD is real and heartbreaking, but he is surrounded by friends and people who understand, Bruce is largely along besides Alfred who honestly doesn’t now how to help anymore.
4. The name game
So something I heard over and over as a criticism for Man of Steel was
that no one calls him “Superman”. People said Zack Snyder was afraid to use the name, despite the fact this was an origin story and he wasn’t Superman yet. Despite the fact that Captain Ferris calls him Superman by the end of the film(and I agree Ferris, he’s totally hot). Yet Wonder Woman was not called by “Wonder Woman” in the film and no one seemed to have any problem with that.
5. Stories about sacrifice
This one really gets my goat. Man of Steel ended in the destruction of Metropolis, but the hope we could rebuild. Batman v Superman ended with Clark’s death, but the idea that men are still good, justice is coming. Wonder Woman ended with Steve’s death, but that love is the most powerful motivation for heroism. All three of these things are important, and yet BvS was trashed for implying that heroism requires sacrifice and Clark should have just given Diana the spear. Well, as Wonder Woman also expertly showed us, sometimes, you can’t do everything. Diana told Steve whatever it was, she could do it. But she couldn’t. There was no time. He could save the day, but she needed to save the world. In Batman v Superman a similar situation unfolds: a creature from another word. Batman has the gas, but he’s a weak human compared to Doomsday. Diana is strong, but she’s holding Doomsday back with the lasso. And there’s Clark who knows that he has to do something. He has the spear. When you can do something you have the responsibility to. That’s what being a hero means. So he does. In both cases that sacrifice reminded the heroes of what heroism really is about: hope, love, the fact that humanity is deeply flawed but worth fighting for. This lesson is also demonstrated in Man of Steel when Clark has to kill Zod to save a family.
6. The Hero loses faith
When Batman v Superman came out Superman/Clark was heavily criticized about the fact that he has a crisis of faith, right after the bombing and before Doomsday it really looks like Clark is going to give up. That he’s going to hang up the cape and give up the dream of being the people’s guardian. Diana has a similar experience. After fake-Ares is killed and she sees that nothing stopped, she has an absolute breakdown. Her entire worldview, everything she was taught was shaken and uprooted. Steve tries to convince her that people are worth believing in, and when he can’t he goes back to doing what he must do. He must help save people. In both situations, the heroes are put to the test when people they love are put in danger and face real doubts about heroism and themselves. In both cases, each hero makes the choice to continue the battle. Diana saves Doctor Poison, choosing to believe in humanity and and take down Ares. Clark does his best to reason with Bruce, who he considered a violent vigilante, to stand down, and even after the fight goes beyond his control he begs him to save Martha, he doesn’t care if Bruce kills him first, as long as he saves her. He puts his trust in Bruce’s humanity and THAT is why they are able to put their differences aside to help fight Doomsday. In both cases the crisis of faith were important developmental moments, showcasing to the audience how grueling and disheartening being a hero is sometimes. Sometimes people don’t understand, they vilify you, they mistrust you. Sometimes you don’t win, and those failures have a high cost. Do you keep going? Both these movies answer yes.
Listen, I’m really not asking you to like the other DC movies if you liked Wonder Woman. They are different movies and each film had different strengths and weaknesses, but I am saying that as a whole MoS and BvS have gotten some pretty unfair criticism due to largely what I think comes down to Zack Snyder. Some people don’t want to like his films, so they don’t. But in the light of all that Wonder Woman is getting praise for, which it deserves, that both the other films did well along side it is hypocritical. Patty and Allan did an incredible job, but I would like to remind people that Zack casted Gal Gadot, not Patty, and Zack, along with others, helped write the story that Allan adapted into a screenplay. This movie was a team effort in a grand scheme of films that had its own wonderful unique qualities while sharing the ideals and driving force that its predecessors did.
Hm, so Clark destroys the world engine, which becomes the kryptonite which Bruce uses to make the spear. Clark also kills Zod, whose body Lex uses to make Doomsday. Doomsday + the spear are responsible for Clark’s own death. Hm.
So in honour of the new Justice League trailer, can I ask you what you feel are the top ten worst things about the DCEU movies so far?
*grins evilly, cracks knuckles*
Let’s get this one out of the way:
10. This fucking shot right here
“Pretentious” does not even begin to cover it. And that expression! I don’t have much nice to say about Henry Cavill in these movies, but I do enjoy his utter inability to hide his embarrassment at what he’s participating in at this moment.
9. The Why Did You Even Bother Club: Lois Lane, the Daily Planet, Rick Flag & June Moon, the media, the military, Congress…
Remember how The Avengers had this idea of Agent Coulson as the in-universe fanboy who understood the team better than anybody, and how the best part of Age of Ultron was the trip to Hawkeye’s farm? So why do the “human” elements of the DCEU feel so forced and stale?
8. Someone needs to go to jail for these action scenes
I thank the gods that I (unlike many of my friends) walked into Man of Steel sober, because Snyder’s destruction porn in that movie is a truly bad trip. Everything you need to know about the dude is in this juxtaposition: when he’s showing a building breaking apart, he wants you to see details, dammit, this is his canvas. When he has to cut to, y’know, humans, they’re dully shot and horribly lit, and his impatient desire to get to the next orgasmic splash-panel-shot is palpable. Elsewhere, the Doomsday sequence in BvS not only extends the plot far beyond its logical climax (the dictionary definition of overkill), it’s an unbelievably dull and drab nesting doll of mushroom clouds, pure headache-inducing sound and fury signifying nothing, my least favorite superhero throwdown on screen…until the Enchantress fight in Suicide Squad, which had me in tears in the theater, I was laughing so hard.
7. Pa Kent wants you and your children dead, you hear me? DEAD!
This may be the single worst aspect of Man of Steel specifically. I hate it on every level. I hate that Pa Kent spouts this BS, I hate that we’re supposed to take it seriously, I hate how it bogs down the post-Krypton story with no real weight or payoff (since we already know that Adult Clark is saving people by the time we get his Dad’s speech about not doing so), I hate that entire unbelievably dumb tornado scene, and I hate how freakin’ casual Snyder and Goyer are about death throughout this SUPERMAN STORY. Supes kills Zod, screams that scream…and then he’s downing satellites with a smirk, and biking through an apparently just-fine Metropolis, and hahaha look, glasses! Tone? Stakes? What are those? What was the point to him killing Zod other than Snyder getting that fetishistic close-up of the scream? Man of Steel was always going to be a bad movie, but this is where it became a Bad movie.
6. THIS IS KATANA
SHE’S GOT MY BACK
5. Batman v Superman is I Took Half a Philosophy Course, The Movie
Every single second of this insufferable thing is screaming at you to take it seriously. Every. Single. One. And it’s earned maybe 2% of the time, usually when it directly swipes a line from a comic. There’s nothing else to most of these scenes—just This Is Dramatic, with no attention put into the “this” from the basic “we need to care about these people” angle that Marvel generally has a lock on. The ambition falls flat. In particular, the worldbuilding sequences in BvS (the Injustice future, the Flash visitation, the videos of future JL members) constitute some of the clumsiest and most misguided scenes ever in a comic book movie, because they thoroughly ratfuck the tone, pacing, and focus in the most masturbatory manner imaginable outside of literal porn. (Has there ever been a less appropriate use of Exciting Pump-You-Up music than when Wonder Woman is…sitting at her laptop…watching QuickTime videos?)
4. Scene to scene, line to line, end to end, every storytelling decision in Suicide Squad is wrong
I don’t demand a movie make perfect logical sense for me to like it, and nitpicking about plot holes often aggravates me, because there are many more important things to making and watching movies. What I demand is that you not assemble your movie like a dozen different food-poisoning-induced fever dreams all happening simultaneously. When you have to literally actually reshow parts of your “villain launches their evil plan” sequence (kind of an important part of a comic book movie!) because it was so confusing and poorly communicated the first time through, you’ve lost any semblance of structural coherence. This isn’t clever nonlinear storytelling. This is an abysmal, abyssal editing fail. Honestly, given the garbage fire behind the scenes, Suicide Squad barely counts as a finished movie.
Final three slots reserved for the fatal performances. You know the ones.
3. How did you let Jared Leto keep doing this after day one
How did you not brain him with a shovel or something
2. Why, though
Why would you do this to us
And of course, at #1…
1. This ostensibly sentient block of granite you insist on calling Clark Kent
Ok, that’s not entirely fair. He’s poorly cast, written, and directed. The DCEU is fundamentally broken because its central character does not work. He’s got two modes–deadly boring and straight-up deadly–and neither is compelling. I’m far from the first to say it: this is a Superman for people who never liked Superman.
I might as well put all of my cards on the table. I am tired of people claiming that the D.C. Comics Extended Universe (DCEU) finally got its franchise right with the recent release of “WONDER WOMAN”. As far as I am concerned, the DCEU had been getting it right ever since the release of its 2013 film, “MAN OF STEEL”.
I enjoyed “WONDER WOMAN” very much. In fact, it is my favorite movie of 2017 … so far. But I do not consider it the best film within the DCEU franchise. But that is not my point. My point … has to do with the reasons behind this declaration regarding “WONDER WOMAN” and why I find it so troubling.
I cannot help but wonder if today’s critics and moviegoers have balls of rubber. When did it become so damn important to them that all comic book hero movies are “fun” or loaded with humor? There is NO LAW that all comic book movies have to be “fun”. The Captain America movies from the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) franchise were not all fun … especially 2014’s “CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE WINTER SOLDIER” (which is why I am such a major fan of the movie). Neither were the Dark Knight Trilogy films directed by Christopher Nolan. And the DCEU film, “SUICIDE SQUAD” was practically loaded with humor. Yet, that film was trashed as well, and criticized for similar reasons as “MAN OF STEEL” and its follow-up, “BATMAN V. SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE” (another major favorite of mine). So, why criticize the DCEU movies for lacking a sense of humor?
Another criticism that has been lobbied against the DCEU films was the franchise’s ambiguous portrayals of its main characters. Especially Clark Kent aka Superman. I am beginning to suspect that deep down, this negative reaction regarding the DCEU franchise solely began with the portrayal of Clark Kent aka Superman in “MAN OF STEEL”. Many people seem incapable of dealing with Superman being portrayed in some ambiguous manner. They could not deal with his insecurities regarding his place in the world - insecurities that originated with his status as an immigrant from another world … and his super powers. These traits - especially his powers - led Clark/Superman to be initially regarded as an outsider and with distrust. “MAN OF STEEL” was the first time any movie had explored this aspect of Superman’s existence. And to be honest, it did not reflect well upon most of the Humans featured in the movie. When it seemed that Superman had finally risen above his insecurities in the next movie, “BATMAN V. SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE”, events in that film proved that he had not - not completely. And the reason he had not risen above his insecurities stemmed from the public’s fickle reaction to him. In the 2016 film, some people worshipped Superman as a god. And this made him feel very uncomfortable. Others regarded him as a convenient savior to be at humanity’s beck and call. Not only did many of the public felt this way, but so did the majority of political and military leaders. And others, like Lex Luthor and Bruce Wayne aka Batman, regarded him as a current or future menace. Had this ambiguous portrayal of Humanity or its ambiguous reaction to Superman’s presence annoyed a lot of people?
I do know that many critics and moviegoers had protested his killing of the Kryptonian leader, General Zod, claiming that Superman does not kill. I found this declaration either ignorant or hypocritical. Why? Because Superman had killed Zod in a previous D.C. Comics film, 1981’s “SUPERMAN II”. No one had protested. And many comic book movie fans today insist that scene never happened. It seem many fans and critics will not allow Superman to be an individual with virtues and flaws. Instead, they always seem to demand that he be some damn, one-dimensional symbol used to wallow in their illusions and fantasies of a convenient savior in an unsafe world.
This attitude has been extended to both Bruce Wayne aka Batman and Diana Prince aka Wonder Woman … but in different ways. Many critics and moviegoers not only criticized Superman for killing Zod in “MAN OF STEEL”, they also criticized the Batman character for his killing of numerous thugs and his attempt to kill Superman in “BATMAN V. SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE”. Considering that Batman has always been such a noir character among the comic book heroes, I found this criticism very hard to swallow. Have there been other occasions in which the Dark Knight had deliberately killed someone? Hmmm … he killed the Joker in 1989’s “BATMAN”. He arranged the Penguin’s death in 1992’s “BATMAN RETURNS”. Batman caused Harvey “Two Face” Dent to fall to his death in the 1995 movie, “BATMAN FOREVER”. And in 2005’s “BATMAN BEGINS”, Batman refused to save the life of his mentor-turned-nemesis, Herni Ducard aka Ra’s al Ghul from one of Gotham’s runaway monorail trains. Mind you, some countries do not consider deliberate killing by inaction a felony. Some countries do. And in my eyes, it is not only murder, but hypocrisy at its worst.
However … hardly anyone seemed to remember these previous incidents of Batman causing the death of another. Instead, they focused their ire upon Batman’s actions in the 2016 movie. Was it because Batman was not portrayed as a clear-cut hero throughout most of the film? Or that he seemed to be portrayed as a homicidal xenophobe, bent upon Superman’s destruction? Did this negative portrayal put these fans and critics off? Were they unwilling to peek into the uglier aspects of Batman’s persona … something that the comic books have never been afraid to explore? But the portrayal did not stick and eventually, Batman saw the light … again - something that a lot of moviegoers and critics had failed to notice Or perhaps they were too taking umbrage at how director-writer Zack Snyder was willing to take Batman so close to the abyss. In many ways, these same moviegoers and critics remind me of the general public featured in “BATMAN V. SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE”. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why so many were negative toward the film. Zack Synder had portrayed them in a way they probably found unflattering.
As for “WONDER WOMAN”, I get the feeling that many critics and film goers are complimenting the movie for THE WRONG REASONS. Unless I am mistaken, the movie I understand that it is the first truly successful comic book heroine movie and I am not only glad, but relieved. However, the movie seemed to possess a more ambiguous and complex tale than many are willing to admit. And these same fans and critics seemed to think that it is the only DCEU movie that is truly a “fun” movie. Strange … I never came to that conclusion. Looking back on the film, I noticed that the movie possessed pockets of innocence and humor - especially in the first half. But once the movie shifted to the war zone in Belgium, it gradually became more grim and angst-filled. Diana’s innocence and naivety, which seemed humorous in the film’s first half, proved to be an impediment to her character growth in the second half. Yet, I have only come across a few articles willing to admit this.
In fact, many were so busy emphasizing Diana’s compassion, warmth, frankness, strength and warrior skills so much that they seemed to turn a blind eye to her personality flaws. Many had ignored that Diana’s bubble-like upbringing had made her too naive for her own good. Although one might be inclined to compliment her frankness, many had failed to notice that this trait proved to be an impediment to Steve Trevor’s attempts to report his actions in Eastern Europe to his superiors. Or that there is a time to be frank and a time to keep one’s mouth shut. Many critics and filmgoers have been so busy focusing on Diana’s virtues or trying to paint her as a more superior costumed hero/heroine than Superman and Batman that it seems as if they have deliberately turned a blind eye to her flaws. Or pretend that she had overcome her flaws by the end of World War I. Many have also complimented Wonder Woman aka Diana Prince for coming to the conclusion that humanity is not all good or all bad. The ironic thing is that Wonder Woman came to her balanced opinion of humanity after her experiences in “BATMAN V. SUPERMAN”, not in this movie. She came to this conclusion after a conversation with Batman aka Bruce Wayne in the 2016 movie. After her World War I experiences, Diana had spent nearly a century maintaining an emotional distance from humanity and maintaining a cynical view (which I share, by the way). And many filmgoers and critics have either failed to notice this … or refuse to acknowledge this aspect of her character.
Now, I am a big fan of “WONDER WOMAN”. So far, it is my favorite movie of the Summer 2017 season. But the movie does have its flaws. I have a deep suspicion that a great deal of the movie’s acclaim originated from gender politics.“WONDER WOMAN” is the first truly successful costumed hero/heroine movie in which the protagonist is a woman. As a woman, I am pleased by this turn of events. But I am also disturbed that so many are using this aspect of the film to judge it superior to the other films within the DCEU franchise. Nor do I regard “WONDER WOMAN” to be morally straightforward as many critics and moviegoers insist that it is. In this movie, the character of Princess Diana aka Diana Prince aka Wonder Woman is forced to shed her naivety and truly grow up. And in a rather painful manner. If the movie truly was that morally absolute to me, I would not have found it that interesting in the first place. Nor do I regard the public’s misconception of the movie as morally absolute as a sign of its superiority over the previous three DCEU films. I have reached a point in my life in which fictional works with a black-and-white morality are not as interesting as it used to be when I was a lot younger.
Due to certain arguments, I do not regard “WONDER WOMAN” as the “savior” of the DCEU franchise. Unlike many moviegoers and critics, I did not find the character of Wonder Woman to be ideally moral. In fact, there were times when I found her idealism and moral absolutism rather annoying. And I did not find the movie as morally absolute as many claim it was. Despite being thrilled that the film is the first comic book hero movie with a woman protagonist to be very successful, I do not regard that as an argument to view it superior to the other DCEU films.
For me, the idea that “WONDER WOMAN” is the D.C. Extended Universe franchise’s “savior” is a load of horseshit to me. As far as I am concerned, the DCEU never required any “saving”. At least not yet.
Well its that time of year again. Another DCEU movie is coming so I must revisit all the past movies in preparation for the new Wonder Woman coming on June 2. And I think I have finally realized yet another reason I LOVE these films. Now to begin I am not going to bash M*rvel or anything, all I will say is that their movies are the same tone throughout pretty much all of them including GOTG. Ok, that’s all I have to say about that, now onto the breakdown of what I just realized about DCEU.
So beginning with MoS, directed by Zach Snyder, you can tell this movie is told from the perspective of Clark/Superman. There is a filter to it but it is mostly bright and sunny, daytime, even for the fight scenes. Then the lowest point in the movie, when Metropolis is in ruin and Superman has had to kill Zod it is dark, its reflecting how dark Superman feels, how hopeless at that moment, because he couldn’t save Metropolis from destruction and he couldn’t save the last of his kind. Then he goes outside, sees Lois, sees the person who to him is pure, and good, and worth everything in the world. She is the reflection of the good of humanity to him and suddenly he sees hope, he sees a reason to fight on and try to stop this from happening again, suddenly, its brighter again, less hopeless. The movie ends on hope.
Next comes BvS, also directed by Zach Snyder and now we have shifted perspective from the getgo. This movie is Bruce/Batman’s perspective. It is dark, and gritty, and hopeless. He has been doing this for 20 years and seemingly has lost all light and good that was within him. He just does this now because he doesn’t know what else to do beyond take down bad guys and if there are some causalities, well that sucks but not like he is the one directly killing them. The whole movie is seemingly told at night except for the Superman scenes, but even those are a little darker, as if told through the eyes of Batman and how he sees Superman throughout the film. Then, at the end, the funeral of Superman and even more so at the funeral of Clark Kent, it is bright, Batman sees hope in the world again. He sees that he has been existing and not living, having forgotten why he became the Batman in the first place but the sacrifice Clark made reminds him that yes, there is still hope in the world, there is still good. The movie once again ends on hope.
Finally comes Suicide Squad, directed by David Ayer, is from the perspective of mostly Harley and Deadshot. They are the focus and I would argue the whole film is skewed to Harley’s perspective. We see its dark yes, but its so fun in the dark! This is bad guys at night who are out to kill some shit! This is told from the view of a woman who is mentally unstable and in love with someone who is abusive and doesn’t see it. This is a movie full of loud laughter, crazy music, and fight scenes that are made to be outlandish and fun more so than just dark violence. Harley thrives in this world and its completely different than the movies that came before it.
DCEU seems to be telling their filmmakers ‘hey look, these movies need to tie together so do that sometime but just make the movie you want to make about these characters, have fun with it, be yourself’ and I feel that will be continued in Wonder Woman. Love these movies or hate them they are unique entities that don’t seem to just rehash the same one-liners, themes, and tones. They are all different and let the filmmakers take the reigns for the most part. This is why I love the DCEU, I’m not getting the same movie over and over again, I’m getting a new one every time.
Ok, so I’ve only ever watched Man of Steel twice. The first time shortly after it came out and before I really got into DC Comics (and comics in general) and the second time was last week (after I’d received my DC TRASH accreditation). Granted last week’s viewing was dubbed in Bulgarian (b/c in Bulgaria we dub things… ugh) but my dad was watching and I saw what it was and sat my ass down immediately.
Anyway, the point of this post is to discuss the infamous and (for some puzzling reason) “problematic” scene of Superman killing Zod.
When people talk about this scene, specifically when they bitch about it by claiming that “this scene is the most un-superman thing ever omg how dare zack snyder!” they almost always fail to mention (gee I wonder why) the context of the scene itself.
Like in most discussions you see the discourse revolve around the killing, but how many times have you seen it discussed WHY Superman resorted to that? - Not many.
Like… You can’t say that Superman killing Zod is “out of character” and “the worst” when the only reason Superman did that was because Zod was about to barbecue a family of four innocent civillians who were cornered, defenseless, and absolutely fucking terrified. Superman tried to reason with Zod, resulting only in Zod trying harder to kill the family (i.e. actually shooting his laser vision at them, as opposed as just making them targets by looking at their direction as he did at first).
So Superman in a completely selfless Superman-way chose to save civilians rather than save his own species (i.e. something that would have benefited only him - where humans are concerned). He chose to bear the burden of killing because apparently he judged that he’d rather have that than the lives of innocents on his conscience (although, it can be argued that he was already feeling the weight of being responsible for people dying as the Kryptonian invasion started for the simple reason that he, too, is Kryptonian).
Like… What Superman did in this scene is literally what any other protagonist in any other action movie (be it CBM or not) would have done. We’ve seen it done countless times in movies and tv shows and yet Superman is the only person who gets shit for it… and for what? Some outdated, utopian, one-dimensional ideal in people’s head of who Superman is? That he’s the “perfect hero”?
The movie showing Superman’s flaws doesn’t make it a bad movie, it makes these people’s ideology flawed and it highlights that. Which in turn makes them uncomfortable, so rather than facing the idea that maybe there’s more to Superman than this happy-go-lucky nerdy can-do-it-all farmboy who fights crime, gets the girl, and is universally beloved (can you see people self-projecting on him though?) is actually capable of negative emotions and violence (as is every single person/character when pushed in the right way), they shit on the movie, the cast, and the creative minds behind the scenes (directors, script writers, etc).
Then again these are the same kind of people who believe that comics don’t exist outside the Golden/Silver Ages where all characters were funny and happy-go-lucky.
I say all of this as someone who doesn’t even really like Superman. The only version of him that I find interesting is that of the DCEU (or as I call him - SuperCavill) exactly because of this “picture perfect” hero everyone’s trying to sell him as.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Man of Steel as a movie. It just doesn’t hold your hand through the entirety of the Superman mythos and things make a lot of sense if one knows even the slightest bit of info about the Superman-lore. It can get confusing if you don’t (which was true for me the first time around), but that doesn’t make it a bad movie. Then again, “it doesn’t make sense” is like 98% of the BvS wank too.. when again, not true.
Anyone who says “Superman killing Zod is character assassination / out of character”, can promptly kiss my DCEU-Loving ass!
There is a good part about Superman killing Zod and Batman been lethal to his enemies in DCEU. This whole thing explores a theme about coming back. Can you come back from something like that? Can you still become a better person? Will it automatically erase everything that was done before? Of course not, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t do better from now on and further into the future. It’s all about having second chance and redemption and this is what DCEU explores in a great way.
In Superman’s case his hand was forced to kill by Zod himself and it affected the man of steel.
This Clark was at the very beginning of his journey to become Superman and in that particular moment, with him also being inexperienced, he didn’t had any other options from his point of view, so he had to do what had to be done at that moment exactly. Otherwise it’s all game of guesses about what could have been, but he didn’t had this luxury of exploring other means to stop Zod who was very serious and commited to his goal of destroying the entire human race. So he killed Zod, he had to at this moment, it was crucial and innocent lives were at stake in that moment exactly. But can Man of Steel still become Superman after something like that? Yes, this is what DCEU tries to explain. We can do mistakes and resolve certain things not the best way possible, but all comes down to us to learn from these mistakes and keep moving forward with gained experience. Later in BvS we can see Superman saving Lex Luthor from Doomsday, the pserson who almost killed Lois and was willing to kill Martha and Superman still forgives all of that and saves this villain’s life, because he learned his lessons and he also does believe in second chances.
In Batman’s case we can see a person who had this established morality and no-killing rule come to some point in his life when he was forced to think that his methods don’t work anymore, he probably lost many close people and was betrayed countless times.”20 years in Gotham, Alfred. We’ve seen what promises are worth. How many good guys are left. How many stayed that way” and there was no one to fix him, to bring back that faith into the goodness of humanity. Ironically, it was done by an alien. The point is, DCEU’s Batman was meant to show that nobody is invulnerable and even the strongest of us can be broken under heavy circumstances, but it all comes to us to support each other and help to come back to light. Remember what Jonathan said? “When I met your mother. She gave me faith that there’s good in this world”. It all comes down to the point that people need each other, no one achieves anything completely alone. I hope this is something that Justice League will be pushing really hard towards the audience. But back to Batman, the reason why he was inspired by Superman’s sacrifice is because he realized that this alien came through a lot, was threatened by possible death of his mother and was almost killed by a human who at the moment represented the perception of Superman in the world “You were never a God. You were never even a man”, yet he did not allowed his failures to define his future and the things he believes in, which is what I guess happened with Batman. His failures started to define what kind of character he has to be, ruthless, who doesn’t give any regards towards criminal’s lives, just like criminals never did for his or his closed ones (Robin’s death as an example). All of that leads us to the point of realization that each of us has his/hers own struggles, our personal demons, our personal darkness, but in the end we can’t be forced by the outside world to define our character, we have to keep fighting for the better, no matter the odds. If we allow our failures to decide our fate, that’s when we will truly lose. Our failures is what should make us stronger, get experience and become sure to never let this happen ever again.
It’s like what Steve Trevor said. Humanity might not be pure and completely out of sins, but it’s not about that. It’s about all that good we can offer and be, like love, compassion, caring, etc.
This is how I see redemption being done in DCEU regarding Superman and Batman. They might not be perfect and made their own mistakes, but it doesn’t mean that they can’t be those recognizable characters from comic books. So far these characters definitely learned their lessons and it’s up to us to follow their example.
Why do people want Clark to "find a way" to stop Zod from killing that family without snapping his neck? Zod was never going to stop. Faora said it once, and Zod said it twice. He had to kill him. In a drawn out fight, Clark wouldn't stand a chance 'cause he's not trained. They couldn't create another singularity. Clark had to make the tough choice. Also, I don't hear people saying that soldiers aren't heroes just because they killed genocidal terrorists.
Exactly. It was a situation in which he had no choice but people seem to think he should have allowed innocent civilians to die so he wouldn’t have to make a tough choice. I also see occasional discourse about how he’s Superman and Superman ‘’always finds a way’’. So purists want a ‘’fun’’ relatable Superman whose human elements are on full display and form the basis of his character and yet who doesn’t have to make tough choices, never has to compromise his principles or beliefs, always finds a way out of tough scenarios and who seems to skate by on little more than blind luck and good fortune.
I’ve said before that way too many people see Superman as an escapist character and that forms a big part of the backlash against Zack Snyder’s version and discourse like that just makes me believe it all the more.
Putting aside for a moment the fact that Steven is the real issue here, this is now the second time Pearl has had a rather extreme reaction to the topic of Pink Diamond.
Even then I had a suspicion that Pink Diamond’s death affected Pearl personally, but now I’m almost sure of it. At the very least, she was almost certainly present when it happened. I don’t imagine she was separated from Rose very often (if at all) during the war. My primary theory is that Rose didn’t intend to shatter Pink Diamond, but was forced to in defense of Pearl (think Superman killing Zod in Man of Steel).
Whatever the case, something about all this is hitting Pearl unusually hard.
Since I see so many people try to make Superman sound like a heartless monster or murderer for killing Zod in Man Of Steel, I’m curious as to why it bothers some people so much, even when him killing has happened multiple times before in other media, and what They think he should have done instead.
Unpopular opinion: Superman being an American icon that upholds the “American way” is an outdated concept and should not be used as an argument against the completely justifiable destruction in MoS as well as the killing of Zod
It isn’t bad superman movie but i don’t like how Superman killed Zod but i am actually not particularly against Superman kills as long he at golden age power levels
and same thing can be said for Zod as well and As cloister i really hated how they did with both Lois lane and Clark Kent(Kal-El/Superman) in Man Of Steel and Batman v Superman: Dawn of justice. And what the Hell is wrong with Jonathan Kent !
I should probably do some guidelines! Haha I have to say thank you for requesting this, I agree a definite lack of 2013 Clark Kent! Hope you like it!
“Clark!!” He was crumpled over on the floor and screaming out. You ran over towards him and knelt down, you slid you arms around him and he fell into your body. “Clark…” He started to shake and you held him close to your chest. You couldn’t think of the right thing to say so you stayed silent. Eventually he snaked his arms around you and hugged you back. He clung to your shirt and you bit your lip becoming overwhelmed with emotion on his behalf. The army officials started to flood in and you held your hand to motion that they wait; they spotted Zod’s body and stepped back a little. “I’m sorry, I’m sorry” Clark muttered, his head buried in the crook of your neck. “You don’t reason to be sorry, you’ve saved us all Clark” you felt tears run down your neck where his face was and you sat down properly, Clark followed your movement and ended up in a heap on you. You motioned for the officials to move the body and when they lifted it Clark yelled out again. “Clark it’s okay!” You were definitely no match for his strength but you reached out to him anyway, he turned around as your hand touched his arm. “It’s over now” you carefully stood up. “I didn’t want to..”
“I know” he lowered his gaze. “I watched to protect them I never wanted to kill…kill him” he looked so hurt that you felt tears prick at your own eyes. “You did the right thing” he looked at you with a pained look. “Did I?” You threw your arms back around him and kissed the base of his his neck as that’s where your head reached. “Trust me” no one interrupted while he was holding you which you were grateful for. “Thank you (y/n)” he whispered. “There’s going to want to talk to you, fly out as soon as I let you go, okay? Go to your mom.” He shook his head. “Not without you.” You went to protest but before you could he shot up out of the building. You held onto him, closing your eyes as he headed home. He made sure to hold you flush against his chest as he approached his now destroyed home. “Clark!” His mother called. He set you down gently before being engulfed in her arms.
“Where will you both go now?” You asked as he say down next to you on the destroyed porch. “I’m going to work at the daily planet, mom will be okay” she had managed to salvage some clothes for him to change into and was now trying to see if there was anything else worth taking out. You leaned over and rested you head on his shoulder. “You saved the world Clark, you did what you had to do”
“I betrayed my home planet and it’s people”
“No, no don’t do this to yourself, your parents sent you here for a good reason they would be /proud/ of what you did.” He rested his head on top of your and his hand cautiously found yours, your fingers intertwining. “I’ll have to face the questions and officials soon”
“But not right now” he sighed. “They’ve decided I’m not a threat” you moved your free hand up to touch his cheek. “Good” he moved so he could face you and smiled ever so slightly. “What?” “Thank you (y/n)” you shrugged. “I didn’t do anything” he shook his head and leaned down to press his lips to yours briefly. “You did” he mumbled. “It’s going to be hard to get over this you know? But I’m here to support you, whenever you want to talk or distract your thoughts or anything you come to me okay?” He nodded and you chased his lips for another kiss. His forehead rested on yours and his eyes slowly closed. “Don’t feel guilty don’t let it eat at you Clark, you’ll see it’ll all finally work out” his mom came out of the wreckage and cleared her throat, you moved away from him and he pulled you back. “Ready mom?” She nodded and he stood up pulling you with him. “Let’s go”
It was 2am only one person would come to you at this time. You threw back the covers off your body and ran to the door, breathlessly swinging it open and a very distraught Clark stood there. It had been a couple of months now and he was still haunted by memories of killing Zod. “Come on” you held your hand out and he took it already sobbing. You pulled him into your house and lead him to the couch. You let him cry it out, rubbing soothing circles on his back with one hand and playing with the end of his hair at the nape of his neck with the other. After he had cried it out he sat up ever so slightly. “I’m sorry” “stop saying that” he leaned forward and you gently pressed your lips to his, his body immediately relaxed again. “Come on you need to sleep how long has it been since you slept?” You didn’t wait for a reply. “Actually I don’t want to know” he laughed quietly and you let him climb in the bed. You were facing each other, limbs tangled. “What was it this time Clark what happened?” You brushed a strand of hair from his face. “I felt guilty again, I felt mad at myself and at him for not listening” you pulled the covers over you both and breathed out softly. “You’ll get through this Clark, and I’m always going to remind you that if you had never done it then I wouldn’t be here right now, or your mom or any human, you saved 7 billion people” “at the cost of krypton” “was it a good price?” You questioned and he nodded. “To be here with you was alone worth it” you moved your eyes up to meet his and grinned. “Try and sleep, if you have a bad dream I’m right here beside you okay?” “Okay” he replied and kissed the top of your head.
Listen, the scene that really fucks me up the most in bvs is right after Supes’ confrontation with Lex, and he finds Lois. He *literally* looks like he’s going to be sick. He tells Lois that Martha is going to die unless he can convince Batman to help him. Otherwise, Clark will have to kill him, and as he’s saying this, HE LOOKS LIKE HE IS GONNA VOMIT. When he killed Zod, he didn’t think he’d actually have to. He wanted to do anything but take someone’s life with his own hands. Zod left him the choice of killing him, or allowing Zod to kill innocent people, AND CLARK! CHOSE! EARTH! And Zod’s death clearly effected Clark, like he was utterly devastated to use his own two hands to take this equally powerful being’s life.
NOW, he has to once again face the possibility of killing someone else. But not someone equally as powerful. No. At the end of the day, no matter his skill set and incredible mind, Bruce is a human being. Clark even says it himself later that, “if [he] wanted it, [bruce] would be dead already. Bats honestly would have no fucking chance if Superman wanted him gone. Lucky for him, Superman isn’t built that way. That entire scene with Lois perfectly captures Superman, in that the thought of killing someone MAKES HIM ILL. It’s WRECKING him, and I just will never get over it.
The world doesn’t deserve Superman, but luckily he doesn’t care about what the world deserves. All he cares about are the people in it.