*Dean has had at least one biological kid
*Both of his children have been taken out of his life
*Dean is allergic to cats
*Crowley sold his soul for a bigger dick
*Sam is lactose intolerant
*Cas is the only one inside his body
*Sam once got married
*All Sam wants is a dog godammit
*Sam is scared of clowns
*Dean is scared of flying
*John Winchester was a terrible father fight me
*Crowley owns the moon
*Sam was a theatre kid
*Sam had a magic phase
*Cas lost his v to a reaper
*Dean killed his best friend (Benny) to save Sam
*Crowley was an abused kid
*Rowena killed the boy she wanted as a son in front of her son
*Mary made a deal with Azazel which got him to come to her house ‘that night’
*Bobby French kissed Crowley
I just want to say something. John Winchester was abusive. Whether or not it strayed into the physical realm is debatable (though personally, judging by a lot of Sam and Dean’s reactions I would not be surprised), but John did, without a doubt, neglect and belittle his children. That is abuse.
Leaving extremely underage kids alone for weeks at a time? Abuse. Abandoning your child at a group home out of spite because he tried to win more money for food for himself and his brother since you didn’t leave him enough? Abuse. Treating your children like soldiers? Abuse. Verbally berating, and sometimes shunning your eldest son so that he will follow your orders without question, leading him to have very little self-esteem? Abuse. Forbidding your youngest son to achieve his dreams just because they don’t fit your agenda? Abuse. Drinking yourself into rages or to the point of passing out, leaving your kids to fend for themselves and emotionally support you? Abuse!
All of that is abusive behaviour. Whether or not John hit his boys is somewhat besides the point. He was not a healthy influence or a good father.
And you know what? I believe that he did love Sam and Dean, I really do. There were moments of genuine caring. He gave up his soul for Dean’s, that’s not nothing. But you can love someone and still be terrible towards them/bad for them, just like you can love someone who is being terrible towards you. Just because he cared about them doesn’t mean he properly cared for them.
I got a note from someone that was clearly not a fan of Yes Sir (which really, you’re now hating at Part 7? Decide already.) I’m not upset about it though because 1. Any feedback means some kind of emotion/reaction happened which means it was written well. And 2. I don’t give a fuck if you hate it or love it, nothing could stop me from writing this story. It’s a part of me now (l argue with these two characters daily and I get the story ideas in my dreams. This isn’t going to just end.)
The issue that was brought up was the person’s belief that John Winchester was a terrible person and my AU is ridiculous and unrealistic. Well, so let’s first remember it is an Alternative Universe. Alternative meaning different. And if you’ve seen the show, you know John was sweet and kind back in the day; he was so good to Dean as a stranger, so crazy in love and protective of Mary, so respectful in trying to compromise with her father. He was a soldier who served his country, and there isn’t more honor than that.
John was a good man his whole life. He was destroyed though when Mary died and the supernatural consumed him. He watched his wife burn on the ceiling; that’d fuck you up too. I don’t support all of his actions in canon. (I do still love his character in canon though btw.) But in my AU, John stays to his original character- sweet, loving, and respectable. He loves his children (just wait til you see him with Lilly) and he loved Mary before she died of cancer, even though-as we saw in canon- their relationship wasn’t all apple pie and roses. And he has the kindness, heart, and vulnerability to fall for a younger girl he wasn’t expecting but absolutely worships nevertheless.
I created my John based on my hope of what could’ve been for him, and for the boys, who you will soon see are different too. If there had never been any supernatural, John would’ve stayed the good man I believe him to be. And that’s who we’ve fallen in love with in this fictional story.
I can’t send enough hugs and love to all of you that have supported Yes Sir. I’m tagging some of you who’ve loved it, because getting that note made me think and I wanted you to see why I wrote it this way. This was a one shot for a challenge that has literally turned into one of the greatest gifts an artist can experience- pure magic. I’m thankful everyday for the blessing of writing it. Thanks for the love. He’ll be back soon 😘
Pfffft, wow, my post about them finally putting the words “child abuse” to describe John’s actions is already getting hate, this is hilarious.
They said in season one that John didn’t hit them. That’s not the extent of abuse. Dean knew that a demon was possessing John because John said he was proud of him - emotional abuse. John left his young children alone in motel rooms for weeks on end - neglect. He raised his kids to be child warriors and put them in life-threatening situations when they were literally children.
Look, it’s fine to like John as a character. He was a complicated character, and I thoroughly enjoy him when he is on screen. But he was still an abusive, neglectful father who did terribly by his kids. That’s canon. Unless you think it’s fine to leave a 10 year old to act as parent to a six year old for weeks on end, in which case, please stay the fuck away from children and never have any.
Say what you will about Adam Milligan (he’s perfect and I wish he had more episodes), I love the writing of him in “Point of no Return”.
John was a shitty father. That’s in the forsaken writing of this show. Sam and Dean yo-yo on whether they acknowledge he was a terrible father. But Adam? Adam I relate to. How he feels about an absent father you see once a year.
I was watching the scene in supernatural where sam and dean were talking about jumping off the shed dressed as batman and superman and sam broke his arm and when dean said he had to drive sam to the ER on his handlebars i was like “wait… why did dean have to… oh that’s right john was a neglectful horrible parent who left a 9 year old alone in charge of a 5 year old” AND THE WORST PART IS DEAN PROBABLY MADE SURE JOHN NEVER FOUND OUT BECAUSE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN TERRIFIED OF JOHNS ANGRY REACTION AND JOHN WOULD HAVE MADE HIM FEEL WORSE AND GUILTIER THAN HE ALREADY DID
i don’t understand how do people actually like john winchester. he was a terrible father and his actions were inexcusable. but people are like “oh he was heartbroken and depressed from losing his wife”. like yeah ok i see u but that doesn’T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO ABANDON YOUR KIDS AND CONSTANTLY MAKE THEM FEEL LIKE THEY’RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH YOU PIECE OF SHIT
there's an episode at the end of season 5 where Bobby gets mad at Dean because he's going to say yes to Michael, and he says something like about how Dean's always trying to sacrifice himself. I was reading a psychology book on toxic parents and it was talking about how the children of parents who told them that they were worthless and or how made their children feel inferiour to their sibling often live self-sacrificing lives because they genuinely believe they don't deserve to live or be happy
(cont’d) so basically what I’m trying to say is what breaks my heart more than anything is that Dean is conditioned to believe that he doesn’t deserve a good life but can’t repress his desires to have meaningful relationships and someone who loves him :’( my conclusion is that John Winchester is a piece of shit, but really, that much we knew. (Sorry if this is random, I didn’t know who else to tell)
Yeah, that sounds very, very Dean :-( It’s heartbreaking how much of a toxic influence John still has on Dean, after all this time. It poisons how he sees himself, his and Sam’s relationship (cause it’s hard to relate as equal adults, after years of parentification), and even hurts Sam too (when Dean’s self-sacrificing “take care of Sammy” compulsion has led to controlling “…even by lying to and tricking him”). They deserve so, so much better.
I really love fic that lets me see Dean slowly heal. My faves (e.g. Roots and Wings by elensule and The Retraining of Dean Winchester by deanwithwings) tend to involve him meeting people who treat him with respect and even admiration (Cas obviously, and Sam too in AUs where they grew up separately). Through that, he can eventually realize that this is “normal,” this is how he should expect to be treated, and the way John treated him is not right. Cause when you grow up in a toxic environment, it’s all you know so it can be hard to see how fucked up it really is. And oh man, if there’s a scene where he finally stands up to John (not just has yet another argument – outright refuses to play that game anymore, now that he knows that’s an option), or in the fic I just finished reading (12 Steps by Gedry) where he realizes he needs to cut off contact for his own well-being? *so much happy flailing*
For me at least, that’s why characters like Dean (as well as Sam and Cas, cause they’re all seriously damaged) are so powerful. Watching their lives and journeys from the outside, we can see the strength and goodness and hope that they can’t. And if we see parts of ourselves in them, then maybe by rooting for them and believing in them we can learn to root for and believe in ourselves, too.
BTW, if you don’t follow livebloggingmydescentintomadness, you should definitely check out her blog! She’s the queen of calling out John’s abuse. She’s a full-on mama bear – super warm and cuddly to all cubs, but pure teeth and claws to anyone who threatens them!
Sam and Dean's mom burned to death because of a demon. They spend their whole lives hunting supernatural creatures because John Winchester is a terrible father. Sam got away. He's at college. His girlfriend burns to death. John is missing and Sam and Dean have to find him.
John sells his soul for Dean and goes to hell. Dean is not okay with this. Sam has psychic powers. This concerns Dean. Sam is hand-picked to be the demon king by the demon who killed his mom. Sam dies. Dean sells his soul to bring Sam back. Sam and Dean kill the demon that killed their mom.
Sam knows Dean sold his soul for him. Sam is not okay with this. Sam buddies up with a demon named Ruby. Dean does not like Ruby. A demon named Lilith holds Dean's soul contract. Dean dies and goes to hell. Sam is not okay with this.
Castiel resurrects Dean. He's not super sure why but he's following orders. Sam is happy to have Dean back. Hell fucked Dean up. There are angels now. There's an apocalypse coming and Sam'n'Dean are trying to prevent it. Sam drinks Ruby's blood because it gives him super powers. Dean is not okay with this. Sam and Dean suck at preventing the apocalypse. Sam accidentally triggers the apocalypse by killing Lilith.
Dean is mad at Sam. Ruby's dead because she was betraying Sam all along trying to make him start the apocalypse. Both the angels and the demons wanted the apocalypse to start. Cas is not okay with this. Cas killed some angels and now he's siding with Sam and Dean. He's still not okay. They look for God. God abandoned them. Lucifer needs to use Sam as a vessel and Michael needs to use Dean. Sam tricks Lucifer and manages to jump into Hell with him. Dean is not okay with this.
Sam is back sans-soul. Dean is not okay with this. Cas is keeping secrets and trying to prevent apocalypse 2.0 with Crowley. They fix Sam's soul issue, but now he might remember hell. Cas goes power crazy, stops the apocalypse, makes Sam remember hell, and becomes god.
Cas dies. Dean is not okay with this. Sam's memories drive him insane. Creatures called Leviathons eat people and cause havoc. Cas comes back and saves Sam. Dean kills the Leviathon leader and gets sucked into purgatory with Cas.
Dean's back from purgatory. Cas too. Cas is being controlled by this angel Naomi. Naomi wants Dean dead. There's this prophet Kevin who's a nerd. Sam'n'Dean learn they can close hell by completing trials. Sam takes on the trials. The trials are killing Sam. Dean is not okay with this. They fail and the angels all fall from heaven.
Dean lets an angel take over Sam to save him. Sam is not okay with this. This angel Gadreel kills Kevin using Sam. Sam is very not okay with this. Sam is mad at Dean. Dean takes on the Mark of Cain. He gets stab-happy. Sam is not okay with this. Cas captures the bad guy Metatron after Metatron stabbed Dean. Dean dies. Dean comes back as a demon.
John Winchester barreled outside to where his son had been climbing trees in their backyard. The terrible sound of his son’s distress call had sent his heart-rate skyrocketing and his mind plagued with what-if scenarios.
When he made it to the area, he was relieved to find his son alive and intact clinging to one of the branches with one hand and his first gun in the other.
Please give me a rant on how much an asshole John Winchester was.
Where do I even START, my dear Anonling?
Many claim that John Winchester did the best he could under dire circumstances, but I contend and refute this… because it’s utter bullshit, friends, just plain bullshit.
When Mary was murdered, John became the sole guardian of two young, highly dependant boys - one no more than 6months in age. Both had just lost their mother, watched their home burn to the ground, and needed their father more than ever…
Yes, the whole Mary-on-the-ceiling thing was an incredibly traumatising and terrible thing to witness/behold, and immediately said ‘supernatural’… but I disagree with how he went about the next stage of their lives.
John Winchester had two main options open to him…
The first, do what any good parent would do… accept the loss, grieve, remind the boys of their mother whenever possible, pour love and affection into them; make sure both Sam and Dean grew up knowing that even without Mary, there was still a person in their world who loved them unconditionally, and supported them 100%.
He could have made their lives, their futures, based on love and support. On making sure that they were secure in familial bonds, able to have friends, to reach for their goals…
The second option, was far darker… allowing himself to be so wrapped up in the concept of revenge that it destroyed them all, in different ways.
That’s why I hate John Winchester… because he put his anger, his rage, his need for vengeance above the lives and futures of his boys and their needs. They lost a mother when he lost a wife, and the difference therein lies in that… he knew her for a span of years in his life, but Mary had been there for the entirety of Sam and Dean’s.
John was frequently noted as searching for the truth, to the detriment of the boys. They remember being in the Impala a lot during their young lives… which is cute if you see it from a 'long road trips with parent/family’ way, but not if you realise that the majority of their lives were spent cooped in that backseat, often not game enough to ask for food, drinks, for their father to stop so they can use the bathroom… [Dean giving in and asking only if and when he perceived Sammy’s discomfort to be close to his own].
>Leaving Dean in charge of Sam for long periods of time in random hotels and inns, though they were little more than babies.
>Not apparently giving a damn about his childrens’ education. When did they ever go to a school consistently? Never.
>Not leaving adequate money for food or safety.
>Treating Dean like a soldier, instead of a child.
>Training both of them to be weapons. See how proud Dean was of his first sawn-off?
>Forcing the two of them into a life, and a war, that would never end for them until the pair were blood-soaked corpses in the earth.
>For treating Dean like absolute crap when he actually took the time to be a child, or made a child’s mistake.
>For making them grow up too fast, for re-traumatising them every time he left through the door of some dingy motel room, leaving his two little boys wondering if this was it, if this was the last time they would ever see him… if he was ever coming back.
>For abandoning his sons at different points in time. Dean was dumped at that home for boys quick as lightning as 'punishment’. Sam was dropped the minute he got into university, told he was betraying his family, when really the fact he’d even gotten in despite all the interruptions in their educations/lives should have been fucking celebrated.
>For the haunted look in Dean’s eyes as he makes allusions to physical abuse, to child abuse… how he always tries to blow off being injured to sam, because how many fucking times did he have to do that as a kid to make sure his baby brother didn’t worry too much?
>For putting the desire to kill a demon, over the desire to be an actual parent…
>For discarding Dean without a word… more than once, because he dared to have free will.
>For telling Dean he needed to kill Sam.
>For making the standards to gain his affection so fucking impossibly high even Dean, his perfect little broken soldier puppy -who danced any way his daddy wanted him to on command- would never reach them. For making them feel insignificant.
>For screaming at his kids for little mistakes, for making them fear the dark when it’s a parent’s job to show them that… even if it’s not 100% safe, thy’re there to take on the monsters.
>For dumping them on random hunter friends without warning. And DARING, fucking DARING to tell Bobby off for being a better damn father than he was to those two…
>For his complete and utter emotional detachment from his two boys, and the possessive manner in which he refused to let them go. He could have given them up and let them be raised by others who wanted them… could give them a normal life…
>For the fact Dean knew it wasn’t his father in control because John actually praised him, instead of chewing him out and kicking his ass…
>For the way John overrides Sam and treats him like a disgrace for wanting something different in his life than an endless cycle of kill or be killed.
>For the loss of their childhoods. For the loss of their futures.
>For everything, basically.
Yes, Yellow-Eyes killed Mary in an insane plot to take over everything.
But you know what? There’s hunters EVERYWHERE. Those two boys had one parent left, and he did everything in his power to not only isolate them from everyone and destroy their personalities to make his tiny Winchester army, but he also continuously put them at risk…
John Winchester has no compunctions using Sam and Dean as bait… how old were they when that started? They seem so used to it, after all.
He had a vendetta, yes.
…but he couldn’t even set that aside for long enough to give those two poor kids a proper childhood, or even a half-assed one…
And that’s why I hate John Winchester, as a parent and as a person.
Occasionally we see him putting out some bits of emotion for the boys… and that’s where the 'but he loved them’ arguments stemmed from.
Well, I counter that argument with this thought… maybe he did love them in some way, but apparently it wasn’t enough to man up and be a goddamn parent.
From a child protection perspective, we have known elements of neglect, physical and emotional/psychological abuse… how he kept hold of them is simply astounding. But when you have fake IDs, anything is possible, apparently.
John Winchester… a man who deserves my giant boot up his ass for everything he did to those boys, starting with the very second he gazed upon that burning house and decided to set them all upon a course of revenge, hatred and death.
Those boys deserved better than John Winchester as a father.
I have far more ranting somewhere around here [*searching under couch cushions*], but I am writing a thing right now, so I kept it brief, Anon…