Introverted Feeling (Fi): Sansa is proud of who she is, as a Stark and a proper lady. She has trouble at first sympathizing on a deeper level with others because she’s so in tune with her own emotions. She’s is a very compassionate girl, even pre-development, but she truly empathizes best when she has some personal connection (ie Sandor’s talk about knights, his saving her, and knowing his tragic back story). In A Game of Thrones she’s very focused on what she values most: becoming queen and enjoying her Southron life, and is devasted when Ned says he’s taking it away. She doesn’t open up to her deepest emotions easily, and can be cold at times, if a matter isn’t important to her herself, leading her to initially be a bit self-centered. She tries to get Arya to visit the queen and princess by appealing to her with things Sansa personally likes (lemoncakes and music), not realizing her sister doesn’t necessarily like the same things she does. She’s sensitive and is very hurt when she hears criticism, even from Joffrey, in spite of knowing his petty insults don’t really have any power to hurt her anymore. Due to her upbringing, she plays the part of the obedient daughter usually because she’s good at it and likes the positive reinforcement she gets for it, but she generally wants to help others- like with Sandor, who was mean to her, and sickly, spoiled Sweetrobin, who none of the lords care about. Gentleness is important to her, and she decides she’ll rule with love instead of fear as Cersei advises, if she ever becomes queen. She finds it a bit hard to stay Alayne sometimes, because she has such a deep sense of self as Sansa Stark.
Extroverted Intuition (Ne): Sansa is at the beginning of the books is very dreamy and doesn’t entirely live in reality. She sees life as a fairy tale like in the songs, sees things as they could be, her idealized version of them: King’s Landing being so magical, Ser Dontos as her “Florian”, Margaery being her ideal big sister (when she’s actually manipulating Sansa). She tends to see the good in people (at first), and later she often correctly guesses the motives of people under Littlefinger’s teachings. While Arya immediately dislikes the Lannisters without knowing any of them because Jon insulted them, Sansa senses that Jon is just jealous because he’s a bastard (which is true). She sees what’s REALLY going on that others miss, noting that Joffrey is much more of a Lannister than a Baratheon, something the adults never realized. She’s at first willing to ignore Joff’s behavior at the trident to keep her dream of a fairy tale life from shattering. Even after she drops the rose colored glasses, she does keep some optimism and always hopes for a better life later. She struggles to see where Petyr ends and Littlefinger begins, and is never sure of who is the real deal. She learns to make up convincing lies easily and adopt a new persona as Lord Baelish’s bastard daughter.
Introverted Sensing (Si): Sansa is proud of her Northern heritage and is always reminding herself that she is a Stark. She constantly refers back to songs, stories, and facts about people she’s learned and compares it to what’s going on currently. She sees Joffrey as the dashing prince who will marry her and fulfill her dreams because that’s how it works in the stories. She misses home badly, and at the Eyrie shows her remorse through making a little snow replica of Winterfell. When in need of comfort, she goes for her favorite books, songs, or food. Sansa fits the traditional role of a noble lady very well and is happy with that position because it’s always been good to her. It’s no secret that she tends to… remember things very subjectively. She’s again, very observant- she notices external details quite well (”[Littlefinger’s] eyes did not smile when his mouth did"). She’s worked at becoming an accomplished lady for years and has many talents as a result. She knows what society expects her to do and is able to fit the role of a lady well. She bases much of her Alayne Stone persona as a noble bastard on her half-brother Jon Snow (being fourteen years old, being brave, not liking to dance, etc.).
Extroverted Thinking (Te): Sansa is able to be proactive- Father backing out of his promise and says he’s shipping the girls home? Go ask the queen, the authority figure, to stop him. Father on death row? Go to Joffrey at court, charm him, and appeal for her father’s life. At her worst, Sansa can be bossy and rude when she perceives something as incompetence, unfair, or irrational. When she and Sweetrobin must cross the narrow snowy bridge alone, she is able to keep herself and the boy calm, coach him and keep him focused until they’re safely across. As Alayne Stone, she is able to run a household efficiently by herself and be more blunt in her views with people. She sets goals and works to meet them (get Cersei to convince Father to let her stay, do what she wants to keep the betrothel, win over Harry, etc).
Note: This is for book!Sansa, whose TV counterpart has become wildly different from. I do think Sansa values social harmony to a degree, but because she’s been taught to and because she personally dislikes conflict ruining her good time. Westerosi society values the Introverted Sensing a lot, especially in its women, so Sansa’s been taught to exercise it more- and it helps that both her parents are Si-doms, I don’t think she uses it enough to be an ISFJ, and she gets bored or tired of people’s company when she’s around it too much and lives inside her own head, ruling out an extroverted type.
how come you prefer book!Sansa to show!Sansa? The first is a victim and very passive while the show counter part is empowering and has more agency
De gustibus non disputandum est, but IF YOU ASK,,,
While I do know and understand show and book are different media and I do not think that one is automatically inferior to the other or that we have to have a carbon copy, I do tend to prefer official derivative works to stick to the original as much as possible out of respect for the author who created the characters. He picked certain traits and, whether it is important plotwise (TPODG: Basil’s faith in good that leads him to die) or symbolically (TPODG: Dorian’s gold hair like a cherub bby angel of purity when he’s not pure at all), we should respect the reasons those are there to start with. Especially when a work is NOT finished so we do not know what is going to be important or not in the future or a red herring.
It narratively makes little sense in correspondance to her relationship with Arya that has been often described as being the opposites and yet needing each other. In the moment they come to share a core trait of the other’s personality or story line (eg, vengeance and brute force use is a core point of Arya’s SL) it damages not only the independency of the story lines and the characterization of boths but it kind of limps also the eventual knot of their own relationship between each other.
It seems to be derived more by poor writing rather than anything else, especially given the fact to Ellaria happened the same exact thing. It seems like D&D can give us only one type of woman: revengeful and violent , in a sort of algid beauty or badass/ice/evil queen trope which tbh is acceptable but when all your characters seem to go in the same direction it is called not being able to differentiate personalities. Like… is writing more than one female mind hard?
Not all characters need to be empowering. Some characters are meant to depress and shock, some are meant to sweeten and heal, some are meant to make you reflect on the shades of grey, some are meant to make you broken so that others can make you whole and some are meant to empower, some are meant to hold different function for the readers vs the characters (eg, Jeyne P. shocks and moves us readers but heals and push-to-action Theon) and also for different characters (eg, Sansa is very healing for Sandor and exploitable/strumental to Petyr). I think there is ton of empowering characters in ASOIAF without need to make every character empowering. Also what someone can find empowering can be less empowering to others. Some victims of abuse found Tyrion killing his father empowering, to me it felt tragically greek and shakespearean , some people found Theon saving Jeyne P. the sad tale of two survivors who are not going to end well anyway, I personally weeped like a motherfucker at “Theon grabbed Jeyne about the waist and jumped” because to me it was pure catharsis. I also personally don’t find killing people empowering, in the case in point.
The world is vast and full of many types of people. While some ofc will come to violence and revenge, I find the stubborn sweetness and the subtle tender idealism that Sansa still holds (at time despite her own wish to) a beautiful thing to see. She’s an abuse survivor but she didn’t let it made her bitter and cold. She got wiser, more prudent, trusts less, but her heart is still the sweetest and she still actually believes in doing good and be kind, she just is now aware the world is not perfect and b/w. She still holds her values tight in her heart - her skin may have turned to steel but her heart is still soft and I think this is also a good thing to show, that abuse won’t necessarily turn you into someone else.
Book!Sansa is not passive imho, she is in a very castrating situation. Book!Sansa is gracefully strategic. She knows who she is playing against, she knows she can’t count on power or force so she counts on her brain and manners. That doesn’t make her passive. Being active doesn’t mean simply the brute force. Sansa actively changes the life of the Hound (whether you see this romantically or not, does not interest me) , she saves Dontos Hollard’s life AND the mother with the children’s corpse by manipulating Joffrey, she endured abuse and proved herself brave in front of the worst, she tries to comfort others in times of difficulty, she does manipulate people with a certain skill, plays her role as Alayne splendidly. Maybe it’s not exactly as “out there” brave and active as Robb starting a war, but I wouldn’t define her passive just for her weapon of choice. Or whether she kills people or simply gets what she wants.
THIS GORGEOUS POST - “But one of the things that I love so much about this series is that violence isn’t treated narratively as the only, default, or best option, and the characters who prefer to and excel in finding and implementing non-violent or minimally violent methods of resolving conflicts get as much (or more, depending) authorial respect as the out-and-out warriors.”
If you like show!Sansa great a+++ you do you, but don’t tell me my daughter is in any way inferior because she uses her brain to overcome situations instead of tying someone to a chair and making him get eaten alive by dogs. I understand for some is important and cool to see an abuse victim to get back at their abuser, I’ll still wish they used another character (one maybe which whole character wasn’t about “true knights”, “make them love me” and “gentle the rage” idk …. ARYA? DANY? ANYBODY ELSE?) and I still stand on the fact that not searching for a physical revenge doesn’t make you more of a victim or more passive. There are not good and bad victims and there are not active and passive survivors.
The Lion and the Flayed Man (Joffrey x Reader x Ramsay)
(Gif credit to owner)
Fandom: Game of Thrones
Characters: Joffrey Baratheon and Ramsay Bolton
Word Count: 1,231
Warning: Violence, mentions of blood
Request: Hey could you write a Joffrey x Reader x Ramsay? Where the reader is a Stark and she’s betrothed to Joffrey and Ramsay is not happy about it so he arrives in King’s landing to fight Joffrey and there could be 2 endings; one for Joffrey and one for Ramsay or something along those lines. Thank you very much! ^_^
A/N - Instead of doing two separate parts, I added the two different endings on here, enjoy <3
You sat in your room, another secret letter from your admirer who lived in the North lay across your lap. After recently becoming betrothed to Joffrey it meant that if he, or any of his men found the letters, they’d hunt him down and that was not what you wanted and only the gods know what Joffrey would do to you.
People thought that Joffrey was jumping too quickly into things; after all he had set the wedding date to be sometime this week. People like his mother, his trusted advisors and even you had tried to convince him to wait a bit but each attempt was met with a harsh response and an explanation that his love with you was love at first sight.
What Joffrey didn’t know was that while you when Winterfell had fallen to the Boltons, Roose’s bastard, Ramsay took a liking to you very quickly and needless to say you were happy to keep your past relationship secret.
Imagine being Cersei and Robert’s only true born child and Joffrey being obsessed with you.
——— Request for anon ———
You had been the black sheep of the family for as long as you could remember, to all but your father. It was said quite literally considering your hair was the only to stand out in the sea of blonde that was your other siblings.
And Joffrey, worst of all, teased you for it, always seeking you out, “There’s my favorite black sheep. I trust you haven’t been too useless today.”
You frown in annoyance, but don’t make to move away as he reaches to stroke a finger down your cheek, “I had been being quite productive until you interrupted, brother.”
one doesn’t exactly follow our pattern, because joffrey baratheon,
while being the absolute worst, was actually brilliantly written and
the actor who portrayed him (jack gleeson) did an amazing job. let’s
face it, there is absolutely no way on earth anyone who has seen
„game of thrones” could like joffrey (if you do, please seek
help, you’ve got a problem). we’re even sure there are people out
there who haven’t seen one episode of the show nor have read the
“a song of ice an fire” book series by george r. r. martin and hate joffrey. he was a Villain with
the capital V, probably one of the best (or worst?) that have ever
been shown on television. if you look up the definition of the word
„sadist” in a dictionary, we’re pretty sure you’ll find a photo
of joffrey’s evil face in there. he loved hurting people, both
physically and mentally. he even took pride in it. he was a genius in
that field. joffrey felt no remorse, we actually doubt he felt
anything at all. he was a spoiled child, who believed everyone must
do as he wishes, and if they don’t obey him, they must get either
executed or punished in some other horrible way. what is even more
disturbing about him, he was only sixteen years old when the show
started (and TWELVE in the books!). he was a textbook example of an
absolute tyrant. everyone watching the show couldn’t wait for him to
die, and when it finally happened, the entire fanbase celebrated (i
still remember the moment the entire internet completely blew up, and
the memes with him choking still appear here and there). the thing
is, we kind of miss joffrey. the show has a lot of villains, but he
was the worst of them all. violence is basically in every scene in
„game of thrones”, so it’s not like the show became less cruel
without him. he was such a good villain that his twisted behavior was
very interesting to watch. george r. r. martin has an incredible
imagination, he described every character in the book with such
detail that the creators of the show have a lot of material to work
with. and kudos to jack gleeson, who’s probably the sweetest person
on the planet (please do yourself a favor and watch any interview
with him at all if you haven’t yet), for managing to convince us all
that joffrey was evil, and was probably just competing with satan
himself to win the game for a throne other than the iron one. you
know, the one in hell, where he belongs.
SUMMARY: Sansa Stark has been imprisoned in the Red Keep’s dungeons under King Joffrey’s orders. Will his guard dog be her worst nightmare - or her savior?
FIC INFO: Rating: Mature Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Categories: F/M Fandoms: A Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin, Game of Thrones Relationships: Sandor Clegane/Sansa Stark Tags: Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Slow Burn, Falling in Love, Sansan, Angst and Fluff and Smut, Minor Arya Stark/Gendry Waters, Captivity, On the Run, idk what i’m doing let me live Chapters: 2/?
joffrey and ramsay are easily the worst characters on got and sansa stark had to deal with BOTH first hand and people have the nerve,,, the audacity to act like sansa stark hasn’t been the single strongest character in the whole damn shitshow and call her stupid for trying to tell jon what to do with the battle like OK
Do👏🏻not👏🏻romanticize👏🏻Littlefinger's👏🏻emotional👏🏻manipulation👏🏻and👏🏻abuse👏🏻of👏🏻Sansa👏🏻Stark👏🏻. It is not romantic. He does not love her. He desires her, and he desires her claim to Winterfell. This goes for both the show and the book. I have seen too many posts shipping them together, and it’s upsetting. Petyr Baelish is a villain, and he is one of the worst kinds. Unlike Ramsay or Joffrey, Littlefinger knows how to manipulate and use people to his advantage. He is strategic, he is charismatic, and he is charming when he wants to be, but that does not make him misunderstood. He is responsible for THE DEATH OF SANSA’S FATHER. He tricked her father into trusting him and it cost Ned his life and Sansa her protection at court. He is also responsible for the attempt on the life of Bran in book/season 1, and for the death of Jon Arryn which is what dragged the Stark’s into this whole mess anyway. In the books and the show Baelish uses Sansa’s freedom to control her. His sexual and romantic advances in both the book and the show are not okay. There is no room for Sansa to say no or reject him because he is her only ally and he knows it. If she angers him he can turn her back over to Cersei. Coercion is not love. Manipulation is not love. In the books Baelish essentially sells Jeyne Poole into sex slavery, then allows the Lannisters to sell her to the Boltons to face more torture at the hands of Ramsay as “Arya”. In the show, he essentially sells Sansa to Ramsay FUCKING Bolton, who rapes and tortures her and he just leaves her there to face it alone, then comes back when she appears to be of use to him again. Littlefinger is amassing land and power. He now has both Harrenhal as a foothold in the riverlands and the Eyrie. If he has Sansa under his power or even marries her, he also has Winterfell, which is major if he’s plotting to take over the Seven Kingdoms. She is a means to an end and he has showed time and time again that he will throw her to monsters if it suits his purposes. Baelish is a man who preyed on a child experiencing horribly traumatic life events and he has done so with no real remorse. He does so to get both the power he wants and because Sansa reminds him of her mother, another woman he desired, but couldn’t have. And I say desired, again, not loved, seeing as Baelish publicly slandered Catelyn all over King’s Landing before the Starks show up there and participates in the deaths and attempted murders of her family. Baelish is a villain. He is an interesting villain and a well written character, but DO NOT ROMANTICIZE ABUSE.
Usually when King In The North / Queen In The North is discussed- Sansa, Bran, Arya, Jon or Rickon… alot of the basis for whoever is picked stems along the lines ‘they are the heir’ or they are the eldest, etc. To be frank, that is a terrible reason to want someone as a King or Queen, and imo- misrepresents the North and what they desire in a leader.
Here I write what I find so appealing about all the Starks, joining up with each other and ruling together as Kings & Queens.
and simultaneously the worst because he’s tywin lannister.
the first inkling we get of his gramps side is with arya in season 2. he appreciates her smarts and her wit.
he asks her opinion on things. when does tywin ever do that? he doesn’t care what other people think.
but he’s interested in her opinion. she’s playing the game and he respects her for it, plus i think he actually knows who she is (i mean he’s tywin lannister how could he not). maybe he feels bad about joffrey cutting off her dad’s head so he’ll let her live to see how far she gets in the game, if she can make it back to winterfell alive. and maybe he’s kind of rooting for her too because:
not that being compared to cersei is any kind of compliment but coming from tywin, saying that to even a northerner is a big deal.
but then when tywin gets to king’s landing and interacts with his actual grandchild, well…
joffrey’s a shit and tywin doesn’ give a damn what he thinks. doesn’t even want him at his meetings because he’s such a cruel lil bitch. ain’t no way tywin can bend him to his will. his mother has more progress on that front, something she’s quite proud of i think:
but as joffrey’s dying, enter grandpa tywin again:
don’t let the king future king be traumatized by the former king current king dying! we need him sane and malleable!
once again, tywin is asking a kid’s opinion. unlike joffrey, tommen can be taught/manipulated and might have something worthwhile to say one day. he might be able to play the game of thrones with wisdom and wits, the way he does and the way arya does.
and cersei knows she won’t be able to influence tommen as much as she was able to influence joffrey, or as much as tywin will be able to influence tommen (as he’s demonstrating right now over joffrey’s dead body).
her children are all being ripped away from her, and even jaime treats her badly (cough rape) in this episode. she has nobody. it’s really sad. tywin treated arya better than he treated his own daughter, even though it’s cersei arya reminds him of.
Now’s as good a time as any to point out that this episode was written by author George R.R. Martin — a smart move for several reasons, one of which involves defusing potential complaints about the show’s now-innumerable deviations from the source material. For example, sexual sadist Ramsay Snow taking on a female partner in crime was a headscratcher, though that kind of killing couple is hardly without precedent (google the Moors Murders, if you can stand the result).
The other advantage is to allow the series’ demiurge to try his hand at its unique strength: pairing off characters and just letting them talk. Jaime and Bronn, Roose Bolton and Ramsay and “Reek,” Melisandre and Stannis and his wife Selyse, Cersei and Brienne, Jaime and Loras — the list of dynamite dialogues goes on and on. The dessert course may overwhelm the palate somewhat (loved that close-up of the bird blood in the pie!), but the whole episode is a feast of conversation, cooked up by the master’s hand. And note that in Martin’s original novels, Jaime and Brienne don’t make it back to King’s Landing until after the wedding, meaning some of the episode’s best exchanges wouldn’t even be possible without the show’s changes.
But many of its strengths do indeed originate with the originals. The entire ghastly, endless humiliation of Tyrion by Joffrey came straight from their pages: destroying Tyrion’s painstakingly selected wedding gift, hiring dwarves to put on a grotesque show and damn near forcing Tyrion to participate, dousing him with wine and ordering him to serve as cupbearer. Most revealing is Joffrey’s adamant refusal to let Tyrion play any of this off as accidental, or as “an honor.” Joffrey wants everyone to know exactly what’s going on, and nothing short of spelling it out will do. Joffrey’s not just cruel, he’s stupid — a terrible politician who likely wouldn’t have lasted long on the throne regardless. His final act is to point at the wrong man, for crying out loud. Here lies Joffrey Baratheon: He was the worst, even at dying.