it's not about love it's about saving the women

Listen.Thats all we ask for

Ok this is gonna be a long Post so you better brace yourself. This is something you all should read Comics fans, Shippers, Passionate watchers. But to make this work I have to start explaining who i´m and what this whole stuff means to me:

I´m currently 23 years old and started reading comics 10 Years ago. I was always a very shy kid and wasn’t able to find friends. You could say I was a loner, a  socially awkward person. When I was 16 my mother died and a few weeks later my Girlfriend left me. Always having a bit of problems this finally pushed me into Depression.I was even suicidal. I kept reading  Spider-Man and as hard as I try I cant tell you how much that helped me. It gave me a certain stability. Every 2 weeks a new comic. A new adventure. A new lesson.

Be a good person. Do your best. Never give up. You life may be shit but that’s not reason to hurt others. If you just work hard enough you can go out on top. Tragedy is part of life, but you can overcome it and become stronger by it.

Those and countless more. Spidey helped me to overcome my Fears, and made me forget my problems sometimes. It helped me shape a personality and My  very being. Much of what and who I am I can lead back to Peter Parker. I´m more open now. I can trust more. My shy self has vanished for a funny, quirky one. Another thing I cant thank him enough for.  For 6 Years I now fight my depression, finally finding the strength and support to really get it on. I was only able to get that Support aka my New Girlfriend (for 2 years now) because all of the above points. When Spider-man “died” (don’t ask its comics) This took a big blow on me. But I stuck to the lessons and picked up other Comics. And that was a great choice. Because most of them Continued what Spidey started for me.

You may ask yourself why I tell you this?

You have to know that countless peoples have stories like that. If you go on twitter or just google, you will find countless people telling similar stories, how Comics changed their personalities to the better, helped them overcome issues, even dealing with their own Sexuallity. Its incredible how much Comics influenced so many people in so many ways. And that’s just the people who have real problems! Not counting all the people who just enjoy it for the fun of itJ

You can probably Imagine how big it is for us when we see a Tv-Show or a movie based on our Heroes..We don’t just want to see the film. We are excited and worried at the same time. We pray “pls be good, pls tream them right”

For us its more then just sitting down infront of a TV, or sitting in the Cinema. For us it’s a Rollercoaster of Emotions, constantly between incredible joy and bottomless sadness.

When its all good we walk away from it energized and Happy. It feels like we are on top of the World. Pure Triumph!

When it fails we sit at home, sad and close to tears.

Sure not all of us but some..

For us those are not just Comic figures or Fictional Characters. They are Friends. They are Family. We know them so well, stuck with them for years that we hold them close and defend them like wild animals

For me it Was Spider-Man

For someone it was Mrs. Marvel

For Someone it was Wonder Women

For Someone it was Green Arrow.

Now Imagining watching “Arrow”?

You are excited. You cant hold it back. The first season strikes. Some are extatic. Some are Worried. But they mostly behold their Judgment. Never Judge a Show by its first season.

Then Season 2 strikes. The first episodes are great..

But then they Betray you.

Suddenly everything is just about Shipping. To the point where Characters are not Characters anymore. They are stereotypes. Your hero is gone. He is not even in Character anymore. He is just a pretty boy, the girls can find hot and schwärm about. And it sinks in. Like Cold water.

First there is shock. How can they do this?! Are YOU, THE FAN worth nothing to them?! How could this happen?! IS this your reward?! After you bought all this? After you stayed with him they just take it away and say: “You do not matter anymore”.

Sooner or later you realize: This is not my hero.It bears the name but its just a bad, bad Copy. An insult.

You are angry. So you look who is responsible for this.

The writers.Thats clear. But why?

And then you find the Shippers.

“Shipper” has become an insult for many of us. A word spoken full of Disgust and Rejection. Because they are responsible for all that is wrong.

The pointless Romance

The Bad Characters

The Senseless Story

The Holes

The deconstruction of your hero.

So what you do? You start yelling it out into the world:


And you start Explaining. You point out the Flaws, the mistakes, sometimes even ways to make it better.

But what is the Answer?

Ignorance from the Writers. They stare at you..Smiling. ”You don’t matter”

And then somebody else opens Their Mouths:

The Shippers.

The people who running it for you, the people responsible for everything wrong. If they wouldn’t scream and yell for all this stupidity, constantly demaning their “ship” to become canon, this would have never happened.

And now they tell it to you again:

“You don’t matter.Its not the Comics.”

You try to argue. Always the same answers.

“You don’t matter”

“This is better then Comics”

“Shut up nerd”

How much money did you invest?How much time?How much tears? How much heart and emtions? And now you don’t matter? Silenced by a person who demans pointless romance and thinks she is better then you for watching a Tv Show once per Week?

How dare they?

This is how it feels to watch Arrow for many of us. This is why most of us attack Olicity. Not Because Olicity is bad.

But because Olicity is the big mass. Most of the Shippers are Olicity. Olicity is the main shipping of the show, the one thing the writers please every fucking Episode.

And Olicity has most of the evil guys. The ones who tell us to shut up.The ones who talk to us from above, even daring to ask “What did you ever do for Oliver Queen?”

We did everything.

“Olicity is superior”

The way is written destroys everything.

Its not that we hate your Ship. We don’t Hate Olicity. We hate what people you protect under a false Feeling of “Connection”.

Just because they “ship” the same people you do, you feel the need to protect them. Not realizeing how much you hurt your ship Yourself.

Not realizeing how much it makes us hate you.

You wonder why Lauriver isn’t attacked that much? Because they joined us.Some of them decided to look up the comics when they found Laurel to be their favorite Character.Even more were FORCED to find out when their favorite character was sidelined and written horribly.So who could they ask?

Our blogs.Our wikias. Us.

“Isnt this how it should be?”

“Yes” we say.

“But everything Gets ruinined”

Lauriver had a wakeup call. Knowing the comics wanst just something you did to be prepared.You had to know them.At least a bit. To talk.To critic. To identify.

This didnt happen with Olicity so far.Like Lauriver, some read up on her..But most? They dont even know who firestorm is. They dont know she was Married.

Recently i met one of the “Die hard Shippers”. I asked her

“You know Ray palmer will be a love interest for her?Do you even know who he is?”


So i did.

She didnt even know he was married too..

And its those shippers that are the problem. Not the ones that Care about the Characters. But the ones that ship the looks.

That look at 2 characters and say “they are perfect for each other” without knowing a single thing about them.

Those who say:

“Their Characters are perfect” in Season 2.

Those who say:

“Only the love to each other can save them”

So a women can only be happy with a man?

Its those shippers that dont care about the story.Its just about the “ME ME ME”

And those are the shippers that break the characters. Bend them till they fit in their vision.Their tiny little box. A box that they put away. Forget about. But the Characters stay broken.

You may think now:

This is just some other idiot who hates my ship.

It isnt. This isnt a Post full of hate.Its one of despair and of an honest Plead.

Stop being selfish.Stop seeing your vision as Perfect.Stop ignoring the Flaws and the people who made this Possible.

As i said before: Without those fans, you would have no Characters to ship.You would have no Show. You would have nothing.

The least you can do is listen. Listen to their words and think about them.


Thats all we ask for

Thank you.

Ps: I would be glad to hear more storys about you and how comics influenced your life. I would love to collect and Repost them, probably showing other people that they are not alone.That would be the best thing i can wish for in this.

Thank you


Here is the exact aditude i was pointing out: Fuck you, fuck the comics we are right.

people shut up. for the last freakin time the writers themselves admit they are not doing everything in accordance to the comics!!! its a new screen play and being a dc comic fan i don’t even mind the changes. oh come, on be practical. they want to make a TV show that works. plus felicity isn’t being kept as the lead love interest because of the shippers its because she and Oliver have excellent chemistry and make more sense together. Now, i like laurel i just thought she and Oliver sucked together. I’m glad they are introducing ted grant as laurel’s new love interest. she needs some stability in her character rather than whining over Oliver all the time, i mean come on he SLEPT with not only her sister but also that girl who got pregnant, all during the time he was dating her!!!! that’s insanely toxic!!!!!. anyways, the action is still superior and the new introduced characters such as diggle, felicity, sara are actually an excellent idea. please if you have a problem with a show, i recommend you fuck off and watch something else. simple.

Do i need to say anything else? thats exactly the behavior i was pointing out!

“Laurel was bad!” GUESS WHO WROTE HER THAT WAY?! HELLO?! the same guy who now bend characters to the point of breaking to please a Relationship that never happend. LIke laurel and ted grant. On one hand you say “Laurel sucked” yet praise the exact same people for something else?! How does that work? How can you not see the relation here? Instead of making the show interesting by having the heroes and Villains ..they pet it out by introduce and throw out love interests constantly. I really dont get this? 

Its like saying: “It was totally awful that one guy jumped into your fist, but thanks for giving me his cake”

What kind of way to think is that?!

Here is a much nicer answer of a nice Olicity shipper and i dont want to keep it away from you. It will explain in greater details what i meant, and i hope it will assure you again that i have nothing against the ship itself. Enjoy:



Ok this is gonna be a long Post so you better brace yourself. This is something you all should read Comics fans, Shippers, Passionate watchers. But to make this work I have to start explaining who i´m and what this whole stuff means to me:

I´m currently 23 years old and started reading comics 10…

First off, I want to say thank you so much for being brave enough to share your story with us. That can not be easy and I am so happy you were able to find your happy place in comics. I am so happy for you. Nobody should ever have to feel so low that they think they don’t deserve to be alive anymore. 

Second, I will be the first to tell you that the second half of season 2 was SO different. You are absolutely right. EVERYTHING was weird in the second half and our hero was not our hero anymore. Oliver showed MAJOR character regression when Saliver happened. My hero would NOT have slept with his “true love’s” little sister AGAIN especially when his “true love” needed him the most… when she was going through her druggie/ alcoholic phase. My hero would not have told her “let me buy you drink” because that was cruel and addiction is a disease. You never make fun of somebody with a disease whether it’s alcoholism, cancer, depression, an intellectual disability, etc.

but this is where you lost me when you said it had to with olicity? Olicity is by far the healthiest couple on this show but not even that… they’re not even a couple yet! They haven’t even kissed yet! We’ve had freaking lingering stares, shoulder touches, and ONLY 2 hugs! How did this ruin the show? If anything, I absolutely agree that the second half was messed up but that didn’t have anything to do with olicity… it was saliver. 

If you’re going to go for the BC/GA argument, need I remind you that Sara is NOT the black canary but ONLY the canary. I am SO sorry that you feel the show has been ruined for you but if it causes you this much pain, let me be the first to tell you that it’s not worth it. Quit. If you don’t like it, then don’t watch it, or might I suggest taking a break? That worked for me when they ruined my favorite Tv show called Hart of Dixie. I hope this doesn’t come off as attacking you. I promise I’m not. Thank you again for sharing your brave story but please if this show is causing you pain then it’s not worth it and if you ever need a friend, just to talk you, I’m a great listener… or reader in this case lol :D

My Response:

Thanks for giving a nice and totally understandable answer.I assure you that is not very often the case, unfortunately most of the times with your ship. I knew somebody would bring up the “oh olicity is so great, and it has nothing to do with it” argument.

Unfortunately that is wrong:

The Writers are outspoken that they actively changed aspects of the show because of the shippers. And you just can not deny that olicity has some big, though totally unnecessary scenes in Season 2. Hell near the finale the only reason sara left was to have more Olicity scenes.

So yes. The course has, provable and outspoken, been changed to please you guys. Thats a matter of fact. Thats why Season 3 begins with them dating. This has nothing to do with them beeing a couple. The whole idea of changing a Series to pls a ship instead of the Fans is ludacriss. Imagine watching Iron Man..and in the middle of the movie the director walks in and says:

“Ok sry guys but we found out that most girls in the Audience wanna see more about the love between Pepper and Tony. We will know proceed with that in the second half. We ask fans to leave nicely because, well..fuck you.”

And this isnt just something where i point at you or you or you. This is a problem created by the Foul Apples i talked about.Those who do not give a single fuck about any character but just want to people to end up with each other. 

“Story?Fuck that! Arrow should be like Twilight!”

As i said the ship is not the problem itself.Its the people.Those who told me i should die for saying Felicity isnt perfect.Those who send the actors threats because “They are ment for each other”

And its pure math: the bigger the group the bigger the amount of bad people in it.

Thats why we point at Olicity first: Biggest Demographic=Biggest amout of bullshit

You are a wellspoken intelligent person who gave me a nice critic and honest answer.You clearly care about the characters in a way that goes beyond the ship.

But those who dont are those who ruined the show. But you protect those because you feel like i attacked your ship. You will see multiple times how i pointed out how hard it is to make the difference between the idiots and the good people. And i hope you got what i ment by that.

For the no watching thing: I wont till i really feel that this show hates me.I feel insulted, disappointed yeah.But not hated yet. Till that (and probably even then) i will keep writing and complaining.

If we do not critic those things we wont get any change.If we all just nod and say “Thats fine” we will soon see every single one of our characters destroyed before our eyes..

Imagine you would always give the writers a pass when they do something with Felicity..Where do you think she would end up?…

In a bad Place.

Another interesting conversation:


At first I wasn’t going to respond to this, as I felt being a “shipper” that I had no right, but you did tag Olicity so I will.

First, I don’t even know you but you totally had me tearing up over what you had to endure growing up.  I can’t even imagine what you went through and kudos for you to find an inner strength to get past it.  You are very brave to share your story, and I totally identify using something (for you, comics) to become a source of strength.

I think the problem with making a show like Arrow for TV, is that you have to please everyone a little, which in turn is going to displease everyone a little at times also.  You have to understand that they need both men and women to enjoy this show to keep it a float.  Especially since it runs on a network that doesn’t even deny it likes its actors young, beautiful and full of love triangles.

Now, here is where it gets complicated.  I don’t read comics, I was just a casual viewer who tuned into Arrow is season 1 with the hopes of seeing a sexy super hero, awesome fight scenes and yes (gasp) a good love story.  Sorry I’m a woman, I do like a touch of romance but in no way does it have to take over a show.  The problem is that for the first half of season 1, I was trying so hard to identify with Laurel.  I didn’t know she was going to be Black Canary at the time, all I saw was their strange and toxic relationship and No, I saw no chemistry between them.  This in itself nearly made me stop watching the show.  Then enters Felicity, she’s smart and funny, and a little nerdy and socially awkward and I could relate to her.  I guess that’s why I ship Olicity, because in some way I see me in Felicity and she’s flirting with a freaking hero, and all we want is to see that love returned, because in a weird way we reflect that love on ourselves.  Did I lose you yet?  Wouldn’t blame you. 

I’m sorry that the Olicity ship is ruining things for you.  I’m also glad to hear that you understand that it’s just a minority of people in this ship that do ruin it.  The majority of us just enjoy our ship in peace.  I hate seeing hate directed at other ships, or the comic people, or the actors.  That makes me sick to be honest with you.

I do think that Stephen and Emily have the type of chemistry that has to be explored.  You might not agree and that’s okay.  We are only on Season 3 and Laurel is just now beginning to explore her canary roots.  Do I worry that they will throw Laurel and Oliver together at the end just to stay true to comic, of course, that is a very good possibility.  Unfortunately what works in the comics doesn’t always come across in film the same way.  I’m sure you can agree with that.  I ‘m interested to know what you thin of the Oliver, Laurel dynamic.  Do you see them having good chemistry and a lasting relationship?  No hate here, I love to debate these things.

Thank you for your kind answer and i would lie if i would say i´m not a bit happy to make you tear up. It shows that the feelings i put in the article actually got a response. So thank you very much *bows* v_v

I will cut out the last part of your post to edit it into the Article together with this answer:

Sometimes i just cant explain thing because of time, length and flow. The Article has to be readable so i cant go that much into detail all the time.

If you read again you may notice that i never said how i want this show to end or how i want anyone to end up with. Or with who. I dont care about a shipping. And as any grown man should, i also enjoy a bit of Romance. That all is fine.

The big problem with Olicity (in the show) is that not the Characters are the focus of it, but the “Pairing”.

Let me explain:

A relationship is the bonding of 2 Individuals who feel the need for Interaction and Company. However this Relationship only is functional and interesting if both people stay individuals. If you start to become “bland” your significant other starts to loose interest. In a relationship you want to feel completed not just accompanied.

This is even more important in a Fictional Relationship. The characters need a clear outline so we can feel the story is real. Thats how real romantic and Love gets simulated and you can actually feel it.

In the Shows representation the Characters itself have been cast more and more to the side to make place for the Relationship. This is not a good Development. As i said before: It is pretty difficult to describe Felicity without mentioning:



Team Arrow




Her character has basically been annihilated to create the effect you described:

So you can identify with her.

I call it the “Bella Swan Tactic” give a character enough outline so she seems like a human..but not enough to have a personality.That way everybody can say “i feel for her” thus making the Demographic bigger.

This is the wrong way to do it. You only create a lasting character by writing it in a direct Way.The Character has to feel real.He needs edges and errors. Hell sometimes we have to disagree with them.

In the end i dont care who ends up with who. The story is important. But if the story is sidetracked for pointless Romance, the Goal becomes worthless.

Because the journey was not rewarding.