is just ten saying he loves rose

The Maternal Future of Mary Watson: Or, Why River Song Gives Me a Sad

Okay, so just to say right off the bat: I quite like the character of Mary.  I loved her in TEH and TS0T (more than I thought I would or even could!) and continued to like her even throughout HLV.  And Stephen Moffatt has written a significant number of my all-time favorite episodes of television: Empty Child / Doctor Dances, Blink, Girl in the Fireplace (yes, I shipped Ten/Rose, but I liked this episode!), and, of course, ASiP, and ASiB.  Does he also write things that I find deeply problematic?  Yes.  Yes he does.  But so do some of my other favorite authors (of literature and television and movies)—so that’s not a dealbreaker for me.  I am often a fan of problematic things.  This is NOT meant as a Hate-on-Moffatt post.  And it’s definitely not a Hate-On-Mary post.

 But I am pessimistic about the future of Mary Watson.  And here’s why:

Part of what I liked about Mary in TEH is that she wasn’t threatened by Sherlock; she liked Sherlock and told John so.  She promised Sherlock she’d bring John round, and she did.  She knew how to interpret skip codes and didn’t seem frightened to be tearing around London on the back of a motorbike.  I loved her even more in TSoT: she manages both our boys so that they don’t lose track of each other, she’s got Sholto’s room number at the tip of her tongue even under pressure, and she seems utterly unflummoxed by the idea that neither she nor Sherlock were John’s first.  She wasn’t clingy and divisive; she was grounded and cohesive.  (Also?  Amanda Abbington’s comic timing hits every beat perfectly for me: how can I not love her reaction to the wine?)

And what I adored about Mary throughout HLV was the way in which she is revealed to be a total badass.  She’s an assassin: apparently she scaled a building that Sherlock had to fake an engagement to get into.   She’s determined to keep John:  she does so in ways and at costs that I know many people find deeply distasteful, but as many others have said, we might not react so strongly if she were a man and/or she weren’t breaking up the JohnLock ship.   Ultimately, for me, it comes down to this: she’s complex and I can’t predict her.  I didn’t think she’d shoot Sherlock.  After she did, I didn’t think she’d stick around, hoping to not be revealed (and then when she was, hoping be forgiven).  And I certainly didn’t think she’d live to see the end of S3.  I like it when characters surprise me. 

So here’s what makes me sad.  The baby.  Not because I don’t like babies.  And not because I dread the show I know and love morphing into Two Men and a Baby (because I don’t really think that will happen).  The baby makes me sad because it makes me draw a big thick red line to the character of River Song, and her arc on Doctor Who has made me terribly, terribly sad.  Here’s why:


 Things we know about River Song

  • When we first meet her in Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead, she’s running rings around the Doctor.  He can’t keep up with her, can’t figure out how she knows everything she does.  (This reminds me of how Mary puts Sherlock off balance in TEH, surprising him and keeping him on his toes.)
  • As the viewer’s chronological time stretches on, we learn more about her past: she was an assassin, engineered to kill the Doctor (a task she ultimately refused to complete).  Over her own timeline, she shifted from Doctor River Song (the warrior) to Professor River Song (the academic)—a role that she has taken on as part of “settling down”—or what passes for settling down with a Time Lord (“And what time do you call this?!” AHAHAHAHA)—with the Doctor (who does in fact become her spouse). 
  • She’s incredibly competent (flying the TARDIS) and not at all threatened by all the Doctor’s other companions (Amy, Rory, Clara, Madame Vastra & Jenny, Donna, etc.). 


Basically, she sounds a bit like Mary, doesn’t she?  Just to run down the similarities

  • They both started out as assassins
  • (If you subscribe to the Mary Moran theory, they were both hired to kill men they ended up falling in love with and marrying.)
  • They both decided to change their line of work, to live a more quiet life as a nurse / anthropologist.
  • Even after this change, they both run rings around the smartest guy in the room, who just can’t get a read on her.
  • They both are secure enough to not be threatened by their spouse’s smart / beautiful / smitten companion.  In fact, they seem delighted to make it a threesome.

But unlike Mary Watson in S3, River Song dies the very first time we meet her.  Except she doesn’t really die, does she?  The Doctor gives her a “happy ending” by saving her on a hard drive.  And what does she do in this virtual world?  Read children bedtime stories. 


And that’s why the arc of River Song makes me incredibly sad: she starts as a total BAMF, traveling time and space, kicking ass and taking names.  When she decides not to kill the Doctor but love him?  Well, she rewrites her destiny and does just that.  But then as she transforms, the narrative room she’s given (by the show? by the men around her?) gets smaller and smaller and smaller, until finally she can be contained on a sonic screwdriver jump drive, living out some virtual reality not of her own devising.  I always wonder, when I watch that ending, what it will be like for River to take (what in Girl in the Fireplace Moffatt calls) the “slow path”—cut off from all the travels and the adventures, limited to one particular time and place and group of people forever. I’ll say it again: I think we’re meant to see it as a happy ending, but I don’t think you have to be anti-maternal instinct (I’m not; I find raising children incredibly rewarding) to wonder if Moffatt might be selling his own deeply complex character a bit short by cueing us to believe that this will be an uncomplicatedly happy ending. 

 Why does this reading of River Song’s arc matter so much?

 Because that’s the direction Mary’s headed.  We see it in the sitting room when Sherlock asks “What is she?” (not “Who is she?” but objectified into “What is she?) and John says: “This is where they sit.  The people who come in here with their stories.  They’re clients.  That’s all you are now, Mary.  You’re a client.  This is where they sit and talk, and this is where we sit and listen. And we decide if we want you or not.”  Mary’s no longer writing her story; her story is determined by John and Sherlock.  (Thanks to wingsoutstretched for this reading of that scene.)  And apparently that narrative includes a baby—which is River Song’s “happy ending.”


So I don’t think Mary’s going to die, and I don’t think the baby will either.  I think they’ll just fade away, shrinking into an increasingly small domestic sphere while The Doctor and his companions continue to travel though time and space Sherlock and John continue to run pell-mell around London, solving crimes.   

I fear that Mary, like River, will end up on a hard drive, reading bedtime stories to phantom children—not because that’s a role she freely chose, but because that’s the  narrative someone else (her spouse) wrote for her.

 I hope I’m wrong, and I’ll keep loving  all the BAMF-y, devoted, and deeply complicated moments of these two characters regardless. 

I think what was so beautiful about the love between Rose and The Doctor was how pure it was. Rose loved him for his personality, and everything else didn’t matter. She loved him before he regenerated and after. The Doctor loved Rose the same way. He fell in love slowly, but surely. They weren’t all over each other constantly. They didn’t kiss after every victory. They didn’t just throw around the words “I love you” constantly because they knew that if they meant it, the other already knew. In fact, it wasn’t until the end when the words were actually said, because everyone knew. You could see it in their eyes. You could see it in the fear that the Doctor clearly had when he was so close to losing her in the void. You could see it in his sadness when he thought Rose was dead. Rose clearly showed it when she would do everything in her power to stay with him. She nearly died to be with him. She was willing to give up on seeing her mother just to stay by his side. And unlike other shows, the episodes didn’t center around their relationship. Instead of one relying on the other constantly, they complimented each other. There wasn’t a constant damsel-in-distress issue. With that being said, they fought for one another in many cases. Without each other, they were missing something. If that isn’t the most beautiful thing, then I don’t know what is.

Lastly, I truly applaud the writer of Doctor Who for creating the simplest but greatest love story I have seen. Bravo, indeed.

Don’t you just love that episode of Doctor Who where ten and rose save the world from the daleks and the cybermen by sucking them into the void? My favorite part is when rose has to fix the lever thingy and she slips but the void closes just before she reaches it and then she and ten run to each other and he’s so happy she’s alive that he kisses her and then she says she loves him and HE SAYS IT BACK and they live happily ever after and have many more adventures and then later adorable half time lord half human kids lol what an awesome episode … *hysterical sobbing*

I'd like you to notice three things about New Earth

1. When Cassandra kisses the Doctor, he doesn’t resist. When she pulls back, he doesn’t say anything to change what just happened. And he thinks it’s Rose.

2. In the beginning of the episode, the Doctor and Rose talk about The End of the World (1x02). Rose says, “Our first date”, to which the Doctor replies, “We had chips”. Again, no contradiction whatsoever.

3. The Doctor only lets go of the Human Farm for the sake of demanding that Rose would be returned to her previous condition.

Now how can people say they weren’t in love? Even without taking the fact they’re behaving like a couple into consideration, it’s so obvious.

If Twelve and Clara’s goodbye scene is going to be Ten and Rose’s level of epic, I want The Doctor saying ‘I love you’ once and for all. I mean, he said it already in thousands of different forms but I want the actual words. It is fair. Eleven didn’t have the nerve to say it before leave and we found out only when Twelve dared to reveal it.

Just say it, Doctor. Before is too late.


So I just came across a post that said “If you are a whovian you probably hate Martha Jones”. I realize there are many people out there that do hate her (which I don’t understand but I respect your opinion IF it is for true reasons and you honestly know what you are talking about instead of just following the crowd) but I KNOW there are people out there who love her just as much as I do or at least as much as she deserves. Martha is a strong woman who proved herself on many different occasions, including her exit. Many people say she was stupid for leaving because none of you think you would if you got the chance to be a companion but she was getting out of a harmful relationship and if you actually watched her character instead of just seeing her in comparison to Rose as Ten did almost the entire time they were together then you would have seen how the relationship with the doctor hurt her (NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF UNREQUITED LOVE but because he was constantly putting her up against Rose. Anyone would have felt terrible being in that relationship even if she didn’t love him in that way) and she had every right to leave. It took so much strength to get out of that relationship but it was right for her and no one has the right to say that decision was terrible. After she got out she had a better life because of it. Many people say she was terrible for falling in love and trying to replace Rose but she didn’t even know Rose. She didn’t even know Rose existed until she was already traveling with the doctor. And really if you were traveling with ten would you NOT fall in love with him? Anyways I will stop ranting. If you disagree feel free to ask me just please not on this post. ONLY LIKE OR REBLOG IF YOU LOVE OR DON’T HATE MARTHA JONES I WANT TO PROVE THAT NOT ALL WHOVIANS HATE HER!


Two times he so badly wanted to say “I love you” that he started to tell her. Two times he didn’t finish the words. But you can see him start to say it. The first time he ran out of time. The second time, was actually the third time he had the opportunity, but he knew it would mean nothing to her so he stopped what was on his lips before he could vocalize what he’d been holding on to in his hearts. Rose was the first and last face he saw, because after all, he was literally born out of love for her. Which gives the answer to the question “Does it need saying?” as a resounding YES! Obviously Ten thought it did need saying or else he never would have started to say it in the first place.

  • what she says:I'm fine
  • what she means:I just need to know the logistics of Tentoo and Rose's relationship like was it a natural thing that they both loved each other and just fell into their life?? Did Rose have to learn to love Tentoo with time because it technically wasn't her doctor? How did Tentoo cope with knowing that no matter what he's always be the copy of what Rose wanted, always second best? How long was Rose hung up on the real Doctor if she ever was at all how many times does she still think about him and Tentoo has to comfort her with empty promises how often does Tentoo thank every star in the galaxy that he got the better end of the deal when did Rose fall completely in love with Tentoo to the point that they made their own memories how did they manage-
Vignettes and Variations on Evasion

Pairing: Ten x Rose
Rating: General
Words: ~3,670
A/N: I attended the St. Louis Wizard World con in 2016. During David and Billie’s joint panel, a fan requested that David turn to Billie and say – without pause – “Rose Tyler, I love you.” David and Billie provided some alternative responses, which were GOLD and begging to be fic’d. Gets a bit angsty. Thanks to tumblr user lunaseemoony for the beta.Gets a bit angsty. Thanks to @lunaseemoony for the beta.

“Rose Tyler—“ he paused.

The Doctor and Rose had just returned to the TARDIS from a dangerous adventure on the planet Analax. They had nearly brushed death yet again when the Doctor managed to pull her from the gripping claws of the monsters.

They had found themselves wrapped in an intense embrace, both needing the comfort of touch from the other to ease their nerves. The thought of losing her terrified him and he clung to her as if his hearts beating depended on her. He had pulled back slightly so he could look at her when he began what Rose thought might be an admittance of what he felt for her, words she had been longing to hear since that night in front of the diner.

That had been the first time he nearly said it, and the depth of his feelings for her both excited and terrified him. He grew fond of his previous companions, even fiercely protective, to be sure, and he would venture to say that he fancied a few, but he loved Rose Tyler. He felt deep affection, tempered with gratitude for bringing him back to life after the slow death of his soul during the Time War. He was also terrified of being that close to another living being, and terrified at the thought of what he might become if he ever lost her.

Ever since the night that he nearly let his tongue slip the first time, their relationship became a dance, teetering on a tightrope of deep, affectionate friendship on one side and something more on the other.

“Yes, Doctor?” answered Rose, waiting with baited breath.

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Another Heartbreak, Another Tragedy

“There’s a part of her that feels very comfortable and very attracted to this new doctor because he is the same guy, but clearly he’s not and clearly she’s saying goodbye to this other man that she’s been in love with. For the doctor himself there’s just another heartbreak and another tragedy and he’s back on bad wolf bay were he last experienced this, he’s saying goodbye again and bidding farewell again and this time it’s closing forever and there’s no going back. And in gifting her this other doctor he’s not really allowing himself to go back either.”
- David Tennant