not only MP, now also misha said that cas will be back but we must consider there are also alternate universes, this is making me more nervous I don't want an alternate cas , all the character development and his history with dean lost, it's so upsetting :(
Yeah, I’ve had questions along this line, but I haven’t been able to really answer formally. Along these lines and also in my inbox this morning: (AN: all things in italics are other anon messages… sometimes my inbox helps me out with anons sort of answering each other… Eldritch Inbox):
Hello, i’m sorry if you answered this already, but i do have a question about a certain theory going about about the idea of an au!cas (possibly the one who got killed?) I guess i’m kind of confused about it and was wondering if you’ve either already spoken on it or can expand on the idea? thanks :)
Im worried now theyll just exchange Cas for AU cas and think thats fine because we still have the same actor. The flash did the same thing had the character leavd and brozgh the guys alernative version to stick around
While I can see them (hopefully) using AU Cas in good way for a few eps (tho it doesn’t make sense because there would be no reason for JimmyCas in the other world, but they often don’t address stuff that doesn’t make sense well) I don’t think they would decide to not bring regular Cas back. They have 2 seasons left. I don’t think they would get rid of 1 of the mains. 50% if you counted Crowley. Tho they did that with Angel and the relationship on that show in the last season. Hmm.
Okay, I really, truly 100% honestly don’t think they’re going to use AU Cas at all as a replacement for OUR Cas. If the show is going to open up more alternate realities, I can see OUR Cas (and Sam and Dean) meeting those alternate universe versions for an episode here and there, if only to MIRROR what our Cas is going through, but WHY would they bring Cas THIS FAR in his story, to the point where HE HIMSELF has developed and grown and learned SO MUCH ABOUT HIMSELF, and been prodded by practically EVERY CHARACTER EVER about WHO HE IS and WHAT HE WOULD CHOOSE TO BE if they were just gonna toss him out and bring in replacement copies with entirely different life experiences?
We don’t just love the concept of what would essentially boil down to a random character wearing Misha’s face, WE LOVE OUR CAS. Who we’ve watched struggle FOR NINE DAMN YEARS to get to this point in his understanding of humanity, his compassion, his sense of family, and his LOVE for the Winchesters… like two steps before he was ready to make some BIG FINAL CHOICES for himself… And I can’t think of ANY reason for the writers to just erase ALL of that and start over with a “blank slate” version of Cas. Honestly if that’s what they’re planning to do, I would forever be officially done with this damn show.
Talk about your Jump The Shark moments.
BUT! Considering the Cas we saw on screen looked identical to our Cas, down to the coat and tie, and the fact that the Apocalypse AU didn’t look like they had a Dillard’s, I’m assuming that we have not met a Castiel from that AU. What reason would he have for looking like Jimmy Novak in our Castiel’s outfit when AU Bobby looked the way he did, and when AU demons LOOKED like demons (not possessed humans), and when we heard AU angels were human-hating monsters too… Something tells me AU Cas would look NOTHING like Jimmy in suit and tie. It just makes no logical sense.
Even MAGIC in that AU didn’t seem to work properly. Crowley’s spell didn’t seem to be what closed the portal. It was the nephilim’s birth that closed it.
Which brings me back around to the beginning of the line (just like the structure of the episode, and the meta-ness of the title– a song that ends at the beginning…)
Kelly grabs Cas’s hand, after he’s seen the AU that the nephilim SHOWED HIM SPECIFICALLY, of what the world without the Winchesters would look like– remember in 12.09 when Cas was ADAMANT that the world needs every last Winchester? And he was willing to break cosmic-level deals to make sure the world could keep its Winchesters? To me, in this scene where Kelly needs reassurance about Castiel’s “vision of the future” the nephilim showed him, that is something that’s ALSO forefront on his mind:
Kelly: Tell me again. Tell me again what you saw.
Cas: All right. I saw… I saw (he closes his eyes and concentrates on Kelly taking his hand in 12.19, exactly as she just did now)… I saw the future. (flashback to 12.19, with the nephilim’s power flowing through Cas and lighting his eyes up gold). I saw a world without pain, or hunger, or want. I saw the world that this child– that your child– will create. And it is a world without fear, and without suffering, and without hate. I saw paradise.
As he finishes recounting the memory for her, the lights flicker and we hear the Impala pulling up outside. Like the nephilim was alerting Cas to the Winchesters’ presence.
And then Cas learns that Lucifer isn’t in the cage. He can’t even believe it at first. So that’s something the nephilim obviously didn’t bother informing him about… Dean asks Cas if he’ll be able to torch Lucifer the same way he torched Dagon, and Cas attributes that 100% to the baby (who’s a little busy being born at the moment…). But in 12.19, Cas said it was a combination of their powers… so what’s the truth?
Even as Cas tells Dean that it was only the nephilim working through him, he heals Dean in a way that is VERY DIFFERENT from every other time in history. I’m not the only one who noticed. I refer you again to my inbox:
I think it’s interesting that literally seconds after Cas tells Dean he doesn’t have the nephilim’s power at his disposal, he heals Dean’s leg with the nephilim’s gold light. It makes me wonder if Cas has some of the nephilim’s power within him that could save him. OR when Cas healed Dean, maybe that power transferred to Dean. He seemed oddly invigorated after he was healed, ya know? Like more so than usual.
Hi so when I was watching the second ep after Cas first left the alternate dimension I noticed he seemed a bit off. Do u think there’s any way that he was like possessed or something?
BECAUSE YES! HELLO! I’ve been saying that the nephilim has somehow been using Cas since 12.19. Maybe it’s not “brainwashing” or “mind control,” but I’ve been struggling to explain the nuance here. Maybe more like “infection?” or “poison?” In a similar way the Lance of Michael “poisoned” Cas in 12.12, But that’s not even right.
Like the Angel Tablet was able to direct Cas to protect it over everything else, even his relationship with the Winchesters, I think the nephilim has that kind of power over him. And that for whatever reason, he Chose Cas as his protector.
Cas also tried to prevent Sam and Dean from going out back and seeing the portal in the first place. And then he downplayed it while also being mesmerized by it. But he’s absolutely certain that Jack OPENED the door, and that he will close it too.
Cas then goes up to talk to Kelly alone, and she asks him what’s wrong… and it looks like he’s SINCERELY HAVING DOUBTS. While Dean’s downstairs telling Sam that he has faith in US…
WE DO NOT SEE WHAT GOES DOWN BETWEEN CAS AND KELLY aside from him holding her hand AGAIN and sort of robotically saying, “Don’t worry, it will be fine. Remember, paradise.”
Did he tell her about the portal between worlds, and the horror on the other side of the doorway her child had opened? When Crowley showed up at the exact right moment, seemingly already knowing about the portal and exactly how to close it (in theory?) When Lucifer shows up out front (seemingly NOT already knowing about the portal?).
And Lucifer’s reasoning is the same as Amara’s was, and the same as Jack the Nephilim’s is– “I can do better than god, so I’m gonna burn the place down and start over to make the world just how I want it.”
Right before Cas attacks, Dean says, “See you on the other side, boys.”
THE OTHER SIDE.
The other side of the house… the other side of the portal.
THEIR PLAN, I CAN ONLY ASSUME, IS TO TRAP LUCIFER ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PORTAL BEFORE JACK CAN CLOSE IT.
I think that’s what the nephilim WANTED. And also why he waited SO LONG to close it… because Crowley’s spell was never going to work there. But the nephilim wanted Sam and Dean and CAS TOO on THIS SIDE OF THE PORTAL. I think that AU was the nephilim’s solution to shoving Luci back in the cage. To send him to a world where his vessel bloodline is extinct. A world he can’t possibly destroy any more than it’s already destroyed. He wanted an apocalypse, that’s what Jack gave him.
Cas is knocked out in front of the house. I’m sort of enamored with the idea that he’s still unconscious out there, and the Cas we saw in the rest of the episode was nothing more than a construct– an illusion sent by Jack to act as a lure, for whatever reason. Because his actions after this are a bit confusing…
Sam and Dean lead Lucifer around to the portal and then cross over to lure Luci through. Dean plays bait while Sam and Crowley work the spell (why on THAT side of the rift? Why not on the “right side”?
Sam pulls Dean away to the rift as Crowley sacrifices himself, and for some reason they just stop there? They stand around watching Crowley’s demise. YET SOME VERSION OF CAS THAT DOESN’T EVEN RESPOND TO DEAN, JUST PUSHES PAST HIM AND SAYS NOTHING, just charges through the rift toward Lucifer, and then seemingly just– walks up to Lucifer, stabs him, and then turns right around and comes back out again?
All while Kelly DISAPPEARS ENTIRELY IN A FLASH OF LIGHT AS JACK IS “BORN?”
We see Lucifer completely unaffected by the bullets Dean shot him with in the AU, as if Cas hadn’t been expecting Lucifer to be able to follow him out for some reason…
Kelly’s body has mysteriously returned to the bed after the light flash, and Jack’s huddled in the corner of his nursery staring up at Sam with those creepy yellow eyes.
I think Jack’s been using Cas all along, ever since 12.19, and I have seen nothing to break me of that belief.
It’s as if every time Cas gets near Sam and Dean, Jack loses a little bit of that control though. But Jack understands that Dean is both necessary as a motivation for Cas (he does everything for the Winchesters, not for heaven, not even for himself), as well as a potential risk. It’s as if Dean is what’s opening up Cas’s “doorways to doubt,” that he told Dean about in 4.16, right after Uriel told Dean that he was Cas’s “weakness.”:
DEAN: What’s going on, Cas? Since when does Uriel put a leash on you?
CASTIEL: My superiors have begun to question my sympathies.
DEAN: Your sympathies?
CASTIEL: I was getting too close to the humans in my charge. You. They feel I’ve begun to express emotions. The doorways to doubt. This can impair my judgment.
Then in 4.18 Cas relents and gives Dean the nudge in the right direction he needs to stop Sam from making a deal with Lilith (which could’ve potentially STOPPED the apocalypse, but that was before we knew killing Lilith would START it… but feels almost like a test of Cas’s loyalty to Heaven as much as anything, because that entire EPISODE seems in retrospect like a strange loop of Chuck getting to know the players in his own game), and leads directly to him being dragged back to Heaven Boot Camp for reprogramming.
When Cas comes back at the end of the episode, he’s changed. He serves heaven again, not man, and certainly not Dean…
I think Castiel’s “death” in 12.23 is serving the same sort of function. I’m thinking of it as Jack’s answer to Heaven Boot Camp. I am still absolutely convinced that Jack has been influencing Cas’s actions since 12.19, and that Cas is imbued with Jack’s power (hence the golden light when he healed Dean). There is no other explanation for it. Why else give Dean that little cut on his face that we got to see healed with that weird gold light, if it wasn’t to tell us that it was Jack’s power that healed him? It wasn’t clear in 12.19 because Cas was healing an internal injury beneath Dean’s jacket. We didn’t see that healing at work, because we were supposed to be asking ourselves whether or not Cas was being controlled by Jack still… but NOW WE HAVE VISUAL PROOF.
Why would Jack go through all this trouble to keep Cas close while keeping the Winchesters away unless they (or Dean, really) were interfering with that control somehow? Like Cas and his doubts in s4? And even in s5?
Like every time Cas has been “programmed” in Heaven one of his primary objectives was to STAY AWAY FROM THE WINCHESTERS? Like in 7.17 when he was Emmanuel. One day with Dean and he remembered EVERYTHING. Like Naomi controlling him in 8.17, where one day with Dean and he broke free of her control, only to be ruled by the angel tablet and immediately feel the need to run away from Dean again.
We even learned that CROWLEY spent most of s6 trying to convince Cas to stay away from Sam and Dean. It was the foundation of his entire plan to crack purgatory for the souls…
Instead of bringing Kelly back to the bunker in 12.19, KELLY (under the control of the nephilim already) STOLE THE IMPALA and ran away from the Winchesters. And then when Cas fell under Jack’s power he booped them unconscious and fled.
WHY WOULD HE DO THAT?
Because all of heaven, earth, hell, and purgatory KNOW that Cas needs to be kept away from Dean if they want to use Cas for their own ends… and that’s exactly what Jack wants. But how can he sever Cas’s connection to the Winchesters?
He doesn’t have a Heaven Boot Camp with the Dentist’s Chair of Horror.
My guess? The Cas we’re going to see in 13.01 is going to be disturbingly familiar to the Cas at the end of 4.20. Instead of serving Heaven, he’s going to be all aboard the Jack bandwagon. Because Jack still needs SOMEONE, but he needs someone whose faith in him is unshakable. And as long as Cas has ties to the Winchesters as anything more than a symbolic reason for following Jack’s plan for bringing “paradise” to the world, a symbol he’d been willing to sacrifice himself for, then Cas’s loyalty was always in jeopardy.
But resurrected as something NEW, bearing Jack as the source of his power instead of Heaven or God or wherever angel Grace is hooked up to as a power source, he may have much greater control over Cas.
At least, that’s how I’ve been thinking of it…
(and I suspect that Cas will be restored to himself by midseason, and Jack will have effectively moved into Big Bad territory by then…)