i have no idea how to tag this tbh xd

Judging You Softly - Pt 4

yeah so I forgot to add that I’m legally fucking blind without aid in my fic but u know what this is a self-insert fantasy i have permanent contacts. Yeah. those have been invented. 

Tbh I have no idea where this fic is going, but I’m okay with that. I promise, though, that shit will pick up in the next chapter. This is more just me putting all my fucking weird ass ticks and phobias on paper. I didn’t realize how much I did them XD 

If u wanna be tagged or not tagged lemme know! I’m on a roll with this, two chapters in a day, so I don’t want to clog anyones notifications. 

Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 

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anonymous asked:

What do you think of poorquentyn's meta about how Theon is going to die early in TWOW? (It's in the Theon tag)

eeeh, i don’t agree XD I mean, I generally agree with that user but in this case I don’t - I didn’t reply mostly because it looks like they have their ideas clear and tbh since I think the opposite I don’t think it’s really worth much to try and convince others that I’m right but if you want my opinion re that same question… ah shit I did answer the ‘do you think theon’s going to die’ question once but I can’t be arsed to find it now. Ah well, I’m just gonna go through it again.

  • first, I actually 100% agree on the part where he achieved some kind of catharsis by jumping and that is actually fundamental in his arc and that is the important thing. What I think we disagree on is that I don’t think it’s the catharsis.
  • I mean, the guy still has a bunch of loose ends to tie up so his storyline is nowhere near wrapped (people need to find out he didn’t kill bran and rickon for one), but that’s not even the main point of it. the thing is that honestly, I don’t really think it makes any narrative sense to kill him off now.
  • before I go into waxing poetical about narrative and literary themes, though, I’d like to raise a few points about the actual plot. as in, that meta is somewhat right in stating that grrm tends to kill people after they achieve their emotional catharsis, but grrm also does another thing: when he tells you ahead that someone is going to die, it never happens. and when he kills someone forreal it’s not telegraphed ahead - maybe hinted (I mean, in retrospective there were a lot of hints for the red wedding and honestly I thought robb wasn’t gonna outlive asos the moment he showed up married with someone he wasn’t supposed to marry..), but if he tells you and it didn’t happen on page then… it usually doesn’t happen. Instance first: some people thought davos had died offscreen until adwd came out because manderly sent cersei that letter saying he did it, then adwd comes out and ooops, turns out davos isn’t dead at all nor dying anytime soon. Instance the second, which is even more trolling: mance - we all thought he died and instead sorry melisandre pulled a trick. sandor didn’t die on page and I’m betting money that he’s currently digging graves at the quite isle. if they aren’t killed on page and possibly during their pov, it’s… not a given at all that they’re dead. also, things like ned dying and robb/cat dying and tywin dying and oberyn dying and jon’s final chapter were maybe foreshadowed, but grrm never outright went and told you OPS HEY THEY’RE GONNA DIE X PAGES FROM NOW.
  • now, what happens in the WoW theon chapter? yeah, stannis says he wants to kill him. in advance. I’m betting you money that he doesn’t do that. I mean, if theon dies at any point it won’t be early in WoW and it won’t be because of stannis.
  • also: stannis’ main reason to execute him is to give the north justice and bran and rickon’s death, right? okay sure except that if davos shows up with rickon it’s gonna be obvious that he never killed them and manderly knows that ramsay put winterfell on fire, not theon, because wex told them. if wex also shows up again to clarify that we have an even bigger argument, but anyway there are plenty of ways it can come out in the open that theon never actually killed anyone named stark. and the moment it comes out in the open… eh, 99% of stannis’ reasons to kill him are gone. also grrm wouldn’t have brought out the whole ‘if theon wasn’t at the kingsmoot then it can be invalidated’ deal if he actually didn’t want to do something with it considering how meticulous a writer he is. my money is that in light of all the above asha tries again to convince stannis to let theon live in exchange of an alliance - also theon doesn’t even need to go to the iron islands for that tbqh, as long as he sends a letter saying that he wants the entire thing to be redone and supports asha who goes there in his stead it still would hold up. I think that he’s not going back to the islands and I highly doubt he’s gonna rule at any point, but he can make it so that she can, and that should happen before he bites it. also there’s the entire part where bran is pretty much trying to talk to him through trees/raven/whatever so that also has to go somewhere.
  • anyway, that was most of the plot related reasons I think he can’t die in WoW and sure as hell not early, though I’ll touch it later. on to narrative/thematic/character-driven reasons.
  • okay so, what we have right now in the narrative is theon who has more or less solved his identity issues. I say more or less because he’s obviously not fine and won’t be anytime soon, but whatever. he knows what he was supposed to do with his life back in acok (be with robb), he knows where he went wrong, he more or less worked through his shit, if we don’t count that he’s technically stannis’ prisoner this is the first time in his life he’s his own person. because I mean, he doesn’t have to deal with his family’s expectations as he had on pyke when most of his family thought he wasn’t tough enough for the ironborn lifestyle, he doesn’t have to try to fit at winterfell without managing it, he doesn’t have to decide what the hell he wants to do in life and so on. he’s theon. he knows that. he also saved a maiden from the monster’s castle just after figuring that shit out which hey, nice, good start. so he’s been himself for the first time in years for what, four days, and… he gets killed? I mean, he’s survived ramsay, he’s survived torture, he’s survived brainwashing, he’s survived mutilation, he got out of it in spite of all he went through, he knows his name now and then he dies? like, it seems a complete waste after going all through that. now that he has an inkling of who he wants to be he should have the chance to show that to others at least.
  • also more technical stuff: it’d be… sort of weird if he was offed now, because if we don’t count the importance that his fuck up in WF had on the overall plot, he’s had a pretty removed storyline up until now. I mean, he did things that affected the main one a lot, but he did them from the sidelines. killing him now would be also weird because he wouldn’t end up fitting into the overall plot and so we’d have a story about people fighting a war in westeros and so on where everyone is linked except for him who has the somewhat separated identity arc that started and closed on its own. and considering that he was MIA for two books and only had povs in two out of five books and he was brought back again in ways people wouldn’t have imagined after finishing acok… meeeeh it just seems a waste of narrative potential if he went through all that just to die soon after.
  • (also, he wants to die and no one gets what they want in these books. but I digress.)
  • what I think would be more likely to happen: I did say a couple times that theon’s specific trope deconstruction is the Fantasy Traitor TM - summed up again, what I mean is that usually when someone betrays the hero things are never seen from their POV, they’re depicted as unequivocally evil and as betraying the hero for bad/selfish/greed reasons and they’re eventually found out and punished while the hero lives in spite of it. theon completely destroys that because a) he is the pov, b) he betrays robb out of understandable reasons and by the way the hero aka robb dies while he lives c) is eventually presented as fairly sympathetic (more in adwd admittedly), d) gets over his shit, e) he’d take it back in a heartbeat at the end of all things [and wishes he died with the hero], f) eventually does something heroic. Now, I also maintain that robb and theon had foil storylines - I’m just gonna link that argument because it’s long, but my basic point was that robb died because he did a selfless thing by marrying a jeyne no one would have sacrificed a war for while theon lived because he saved a jeyne no one would have given a damn about if they didn’t think she was arya stark. point in case: robb died. so since theon’s sl is a foil, then by logic he should live.
  • more than that: I feel like adwd is actually the middle of his arc. like, acok was theon fucking shit up because he doesn’t know who he is and what he wants. adwd is theon working through his shit and finding that out. there has to be a third part where while knowing his shit (as much as he can) he acts and has a role in the storyline where he can be himself doing it. and since my other theory is that the theon we saw in the last adwd chapter/the first wow one is theon as he always was supposed to be (at the core obviously, not looks-wise poor guy) [never mind the person robb kept on being friends with even if people tried to discourage him] and while he’s still not mr Nicest Guy In Westeros he’s definitely not the ass people assumed he was while reading acok, I’d come to the conclusion that the aforementioned last third part should be a foil to his acok arc in which he actually does not fuck up whatever it is he has to do.
  • about that specifically I can’t say because there’s really not much else to go on except that imo he’s gonna stay north (because that was where he was supposed to be according to him at least), he definitely has to reunite with rickon and I’m 99% sure bran will end up being part of it because otherwise he wouldn’t be trying to communicate with him (or at least in between the trees and the raven I’m pretty sure bran is trying). I should know what the hell is up with bran at this point to tell you anything but hey since the bran povs in adwd cut just at the best point I really can’t speculate much more. but like basically what I think is that as far as the narrative goes he redeemed himself saving jeyne, but as far as he is concerned he has to atone for his fuck up with winterfell and robb and whatever he ends up doing will probably either make up for it or attempt to. or that’s what would make sense to me logically.
  • last thing, which is entirely subjective so take it however you want: theon’s story is mainly about finding his identity/place in the world. but it’s also about surviving serious abuse (and I say abuse as an understatement). like, what always kills me about theon is that even if he looked like the least emotionally stable person ever (which is probably why ramsay decided he was the best candidate for reekification… -_-) he actually was so resilient he never let that get to him completely and he fought tooth and nail to figure his shit out and get out of ramsay’s clutches almost on his own (I mean, jeyne being there helped obviously but it’s not like he had a therapist or someone actively helping him out). and now that he’s survived I think the story is a lot more meaningful if he gets to make up for his wrongdoings for the entire world to see and not just for jeyne and the readers and then gets to live out whatever time he has left (unless everyone dies by zombie obviously) and gets to have a life where he can figure out what he wants to do with it without anyone breathing down his back and forcing him to fit a role he’s not cut for. sure he could die also because he wants to, but I feel like his story becomes a lot more meaningful if he survives and finds a place for himself and gets to finally be his own person without wars/obligations/needing to make sure people like him/trying to prove himself. now obviously that’s just my feelings about it, and there’s really nothing in the text directly supporting it which is why I said take it however you want, but if he actually survives the series to me it’d be a way more poignant message than ‘he betrayed people, he made up for it, he died’. also because death is usually the way supposed redemption arcs go in literature and no one in asoiaf who’s on a *supposed redemption arc* (aka him and jaime and possibly sandor, and I don’t really think it applies to any of them unless we take it veeeeery loosely) is going through the exact motions of it. if the point is deconstructing tropes then all the tropes theon’s story is supposed to be deconstructing always end up with the character dying, so that’s another reason why I think it’s likely not just that he doesn’t die in WoW but that he doesn’t die at all.
  • always given that grrm isn’t trolling us and at the end of the books it’s all white walkers everywhere, but I don’t think that’s the bittersweet ending he says he has in store, so.

now I obviously can’t rule out that he dies at some point in WoW or in the last book, but he’s definitely not dying in early WoW if only for all the plot reasons I listed above. he really has too many loose ends to tie up and if stannis cuts off his head before the first third of the book is over most of them would be left unaddressed. and also tbh if he dies I don’t really think execution is gonna be how it happens - first because it’d basically be what theon’s feared for his entire time at WF and it would look out of place if you ask me, because… that’s how he should have died had he been an hostage, but he’s not one anymore and he left that behind, so that still doesn’t look likely to me. considering that his arc is all about personal choices and finding himself and all that jazz if he dies it should be something he willingly goes into knowing how it might end, not something out of his control. because I mean, the entire point is that theon’s life was always more or less controlled either by other people or by circumstances he couldn’t stand up against, now that narratively he has control for the first time in who knows how long it really doesn’t make sense that he dies because of what someone else decided for him. aaand those were my two cents thanks for listening guys, sorry for the novel I have feelings about theon’s storyline. /o\

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he said she wasn’t an angel so she proved him wrong


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