i feel like mailing these to everyone in this fandom idk

anonymous asked:

I'm pretty sure most "anti-anti" discourse will ultimately just be used as a tool to deflect any and all criticism, or to accuse critics of being terrible people themselves. Especially with you all patting yourselves on the back about how morally superior you are.

deflect criticism of what? fanworks?

Hm. I can see how it might be easy to conclude that, depending on your previous fandom experiences, but I have to disagree on the whole.

To be perfectly honest, my gut reaction to this ask was ‘this sounds like projection’ because this ask is a list of things anti-shippers do.  Anti-shippers regularly deflect any and all criticism of their behavior and harassing tactics by exercising logical debate fallacies, accuse critics of being terrible people by accusing them of supporting or participating in rape/pedophilia/incest/abuse irl, and pat each other on the back for how morally superior they are to those nasty [insert nasty name-of-the-week for bad shippers here].  And maybe you’re referring to ‘anti-antis’ who go after antis with the same intimidation and harassment tactics that anti-shippers use, purposely retaliating with similar behavior.  (I don’t condone that shit, or people who send nasty anons to antis (suicide bait tw), or anything else that involves abusing another person.)

What is ‘anti-anti discourse’ in this instance? I’m going to guess you mean ‘telling people it’s okay to ship what they like, write what they like, and do fandom how they like, even if others find their ships and fanworks to be uncomfortable’.  In other words, advocating for fandom to stop weighing content on its moral value or kid-friendliness.

If you come from the school of thought that fandom must be made across-the-board ‘safe’* by no longer allowing fans to create or share headcanons, theories, or fanworks that contain amoral, dark, or nsfw content, I can see why the ‘ship what you like/your kink is not my kink and that’s okay/just tag your shit and do whatever’ attitude towards fandom feels like it’s setting up for all criticism to be ignored.  If your frame of reference for fandom is evaluating everything on how safe and moral it is, saying ‘actually, everything is permissible in fiction’ means there’s nothing you can possibly criticize. 

But fandom didn’t wait for morality and social justice to become the centerpiece to criticize fanworks and fan spaces; we used the original canon and liberal values as our ammunition instead of purity points.  We wrote long meta about why slashfic was bad, then about why slashfic was good, then about why mlm fic was so much more popular and common than wlw fic, then about how to write mlm fic in realistic/respectful ways. We’ve debated repeatedly on what’s appropriate to write about and what isn’t, and if we need to cross decency lines, how do we protect people who don’t want to see it?  We’ve had massive ship wars over which ship was more canon (instead of which ship was more moral, and thus most deserves to be canon).  Nor did we wait for current minors to complain about adults to figure out ways to make fandom spaces safer for people to navigate. We created tagging systems to help people avoid content that disgusted or harmed them.  We then criticized each other’s tag usage and demanded more and more specific tags to help us weed out fics that would squick us (or find fics that hit the right kinks).  We created 18+ only spaces on our geocities websites and mailing lists, and locked 18+ content on our Livejournals so that underage people who wanted to get access had to lie about their ages, knowing that what they were about to encounter was not intended for them.  (figuring out how to make this work on web 2.0, designed to bring us all the content no matter what, has been very difficult.)

But mainly, we just assumed everybody was on the same page about real world morals: incest irl was bad, dating a minor irl if you were an adult was bad, abuse of any kind irl was bad. We might debate about how to respect the online spaces of others, but we didn’t doubt that everyone knew these things were shitty.**

You’ll notice some of these debate points aren’t that different from what antis and shippers ‘debate’ today. But when we debated these things without assuming that the morals of people with opposing views were fundamentally fucked up, it allowed a much more open, nuanced dialogue because people weren’t on their guard, waiting to be personally attacked. When we stopped treating ships and kinks as personal preferences but rather as personal value statements, we lost the ability to have nuanced conversations about the underlying reasons these ship types and kink types were so prevalent.

I can never reply without writing a novel, can I? But my point is this: ‘Anti-anti discourse’ doesn’t stop people from critiquing fanworks, or figuring out ways to make fandom safer for both teens and adults, or talking about the potential harm that dark content can cause. By asserting that deeply personal things like what kind of romantic dynamic pings you or what sexual kinks you have are personal, and you are free to indulge that (and others are free to avoid/ignore it), it actually makes fandom criticism less loaded, more nuanced, and more enriching, letting everyone think for themselves instead of being scared into silence.

PS - I’m so curious why you say anti-antis are ‘patting each other on the back for moral superiority’. Do you think I feel morally superior because I don’t direct personal attacks at anti-shippers? Is ‘patting each other on the back’ the act of reblogging from others because you agree with them? Or is it something else?

Cause I’ll tell you what: I don’t really care about the moral superiority of anybody.   All I care about is people taking the time to be just and kind to one another. And I’m trying to do that myself (though who knows how much I succeed).

*’safe’ in scare quotes here because I so entirely disagree with the concept of a heavily censored space being ‘safe’ that I have to point out this is really, really not safe by using scare quotes.

**And maybe that assumption was a bit of a blind spot - a generation gap between fans who grew up without the internet and fans who grew up with it.

The blog will be 3 year old tomorrow so I’m reflecting on it. It’s a long post (you know me….), you don’t have to read it. Sometimes I just need to write about it all. I’ll do the whole excited anniversary post tomorrow.

Keep reading

anonymous asked:

Why do I feel like tom Holland s " fandom" is very hard to get into? Like I love tom but some of the older fans seem rude?

ah idk!! we don’t really feel like we’re super “in” with the fandom like we have a good amount of followers but not really any friends in the fandom, so i guess we can kinda sympathize with that??

and speaking more generally than personal online friendships within the fandom, i think it’s a tumblr thing rather than a specifically tom fandom thing that a lot of people on here really struggle to have conversations about controversial topics civilly (which is super unproductive) and lord know this fandom loves a good controversial topic to talk about and I think that’s when a lot of people come off as rude

there are def days when we get hate mail (which we typically just delete) or people are attacking tom for liking instagram model’s posts and we’re like “yike i can’t deal w these ppl” but then there’s also days where we’re like “YAY WE LOVE EVERYONE” so it fluctuates

but we see where you’re coming from for sure

anonymous asked:

cersei could have been a great character. if she had been portrayed as i think she was originally conceived, as an intelligent, smart and determined woman, whose talents were basically curdled by growing up in such a confining patriarchy, whose ambitions were twisted into something malevolent and petty by the limits of her society--that could have been amazing. and i see the kernels of that character in the first two books. but then, grrm basically turns her into a misogynistic caricature.

she is every ugly stereotype of a woman, especially a woman in power: she is stupid, bitchy, power-crazy, petty, erratic, irrational, sexually promiscuous, childish and everyone is better off once she hands off her power to her father or uncle or brother.but she could have been great! i think perhaps a female writer could have handled her better.

I think it’s nasty of GRRM to write Cersei as being legitimately not as good (at ruling) as the men around her. It justifies the neckbeards’ ideas about women. Plus, it’s annoying that if one of the twins was going to have a redemptive arc, it had to be the man. If Cersei ever had the itch to rule (and there’s no reason she wouldn’t have picked up something from her dad and from Robert, even from Tyrion), and Jaime was just Westerosi Sawyer, Cersei could easily have been the good one.

Listen, I definitely, definitely hear that criticism. Trust me when I say that this isn’t something I haven’t thought about at great length. And it’s valid to have some pause about which sibling gets the redemption arc, totally. I actually remember having similar thoughts about Azula and Zuko from Avatar the Last Airbender.

But here’s what I have to say about Cersei: in my view, her internalized misogyny is absolutely the point. There is no way that Martin wrote this by accident, nor is it a mere coincidence that she was punished in a specifically sexist manner, and that we were positioned in her head during it. I can totally see how she is an offensive stereotype, but the way she relates to being a woman, contrasted with say…Catelyn and her Patriarchy Brain, or Brienne who very specifically struggles with feeling like she has a place in the world, yet is somehow unapologetic for who she is (and Brienne is like, a VERY intentional foil to Cersei, both contextualized by Jaime and by her approach towards patriarchal oppression)…again, there’s just no way he didn’t know what he was doing. And as a feminist, the way he shows the ramifications of her internalized misogyny in both a comprehensive and authentic way is incredibly important to me. Cersei is incredibly important to me, and one of my favorite characters (in a literary sense).

I also think it’s important to look at Martin’s body of work. The fact is, he allows for different types of women to exist, blowing up the Closer to Earth trope. If you look at the pattern for how he writes women: Sansa’s incredibly strong resistance narrative, Brienne’s struggle with identity, Arianne’s actual empowerment, the way that he doesn’t just use violence against women as shock but actually intimately explores the extent of trauma and the way in which both men and women suffer from the sexist setting…I give him the benefit of the doubt. Look at his scripting of Dany, who shows herself to be an incredibly sympathetic and pragmatic ruler, albeit a green one (and again, another character that can very clearly be contrasted to Cersei).

Idk, there’s also something that strikes me a little…Men are Generic; Women are Special too about this criticism too. As if the scripting of Cersei as a bad ruler is an indictment of all women rulers, when Aerys II is hardly an example of Martin’s internalized misandry, you know? And also like, there is a really clear, sexist response to women in leadership positions within the fandom. People will absolutely rip Dany to shreds for not being 100% infallible, while jumping down the throats of anyone who suggests Jon made a mistake or that the Night’s Watch that mutinied might have had a bit of a point. So there’s just this clear double standard set up already: “A woman must piss twice as hard, if she hopes to rule.”

So yeah, Cersei was not a great ruler. She also was hardly the worst, from what we’ve seen. And even though her paranoia seems to be divorced of reality in a lot of cases (like when she thinks Loras and Marg are fucking, that Tyrion was responsible for Myrcella losing an ear, or that murdering Trystane Martell would somehow help her out), she’s also not entirely wrong. She’s a grey character. Darker grey, perhaps, than most of the other women in the story. But grey nonetheless.

Again, this gets back to Closer to Earth. It is not feminist to shove women onto these pedestals and have them be infallible. It is not feminist for women to automatically be amazing rulers when they lack experience or perspective. It is not feminist to say shit like, “if women were in charge, there’d be no wars.” It is feminist, however, to intimately show their struggles, their differences, and their greyness. Cersei has a point; She really is shut out of power by virtue of being a woman. But unlike Cat who understands that and tries to operate within the system to get the outcomes she wants, Cersei responds by absolutely hating her gender, and viewing herself as the exception, and going so far as to say that she should have been born a man in more than a few instances.

Cersei’s face was a study in contempt. “What a jape the gods have made of us two,” she said. “By all rights, you ought to be in skirts and me in mail.”

Purple with rage, the king lashed out, a vicious backhand blow to the side of the head. She stumbled against the table and fell hard, yet Cersei Lannister did not cry out. Her slender fingers brushed her cheek, where the pale smooth skin was already reddening. On the morrow the bruise would cover half her face. “I shall wear this as a badge of honor,” she announced.


If the gods had given her the strength they gave Jaime and that swaggering oaf Robert, she could have made her own escape. Oh, for a sword and the skill to wield it. She had a warrior’s heart, but the gods in their blind malice had given her the feeble body of a woman.

Now, about the space for misogyny it might have created…Martin is not responsible for his readers’ sexism. And frankly anyone who reads Cersei’s character and views it as some kind of indictment of female leadership (or feminism) is probably already coming in with their own agenda. Could he do more to silence that response? Probably. He could probably do more about the Sansa and Dany-hate as well. But is that really fair to put on him?

The thing is, Martin trusts his readers to be able to tell the difference between depiction and endorsement. That showing a woman like Cersei is not endorsing the view that women can’t be trusted in leadership, or can’t have redemption arcs. It’s the same way where he can show us Arya’s arc and pointedly give us chapters (TWOW spoilers in link) that make us feel uneasy without actually suggesting that this is a healthy and normal way for 11-year olds to act.

Maybe it’s a flawed approach. GoT is kind of living proof of the fact that some readers just really, really don’t get what he’s going for. But it’s an approach, and a narrative, that I will vociferously defend.

hey everyone! so school is just right around the corner for me (and probably for some of you as well) and i figured i should make another follow forever since it’s been a while. thank you for making this a very tolerant summer vacation, despite all the drama that occurred within the last few months in the fandom. but most of all thank you to those to kept me smiling through it all – i love you very much and you’re all appreciated!! going to start this off with a few honorable mentions, and italics means i admire you from afar, probably.

jackhemmingz (gen) you’re always gonna be mentioned in my follow forever posts tbh. we’ve been mutuals for idk how long but omg meeting you not too long ago has got to be one of the highlights of my summer. thank you for letting me tag along with you to the 5sos concert, i had so much fun and i wouldn’t have wanted to go with anyone else. deadass it felt like we were already hella close and i’m so thankful to have you in my life you don’t understand!!! 

dammitharrehh (kellie) honestly k who else would i be able to freak out with over 1d stuff?? you’re the first mutual i’ve ever met from tumblr and thank you for making it such an amazing experience. whenever 1d come to the bay feel free to hit me up whenever bc WE’D BE OUT SO QUICK!! #KarenPayneSquad2k15

thelouisyears (carolina) we don’t talk much but i see you on my notifications a lot and idk it makes me smile bc you’re like a frequent on my blog i guess?? but you’re so cute and i love you already too gtg

drakesidebae (judy [ho]) tbh 10/10 bms you cute or whatever. tbh you should hmu don’t be a stranger. tbh i don’t know how we became mutuals but i remember almost shitting myself when you followed back. anyway you’re gorgeous judy!! even tho i wanna fight still like i’d let you kick my ass anyway. thank you to tolorating my niall stan ass ://

mgcilfford (helica) i’m sad we don’t talk as often as we used to and it’s mainly on my end :( but i’m so glad you’re back on tumblr boo i’ve missed you!! i still wear the choker necklace you mailed me haha. if you ever need anything i’m here for you still! also stay in your calum lane bc i’ll kick ur ass if you swerve into luke’s again ily!!!

uneducatedharry tomlinsuntea niallsapparel bassisst lirryaf theyfit harrygotmestressed 6teened frogstylesofficial fightsniall supernovaharry dragmedwn jadethirstwall sprayedwalls fireproofhq bradfors horanbum haroldkink moanstyls thightat harryftkale eminentzayn bananastagram wallahiyo paynoholic fuckboyharry realzaddy louis2k15 blesszayne exceptharry girlsblte ohwellx2 irishpals tommostea officialgeoffpayne thotshire marriageau 2015zarry 17hry 1738louis girlalmightie viplouis bengaliho almightygrl hedgehogkink nialljustgotwet illouisional mustyheaux caramelho hiswindingwheel realheaux haroldmadness froghaddy nutonmeharry wattpadfic zaintheunparalleled mexicanalmighty harryspeachbum zaynsfreepalestinetweet nsfwpayne zarrystan lilzain goldbootedbaby novelahoe frickstagram pinkiezayn harrysgettinghead champagnepadre tinahse louisasf liamputa augustliam 2013zarry ripnaughtyboy thicclarrie knightchanges fifthalbum hoe4harry tvventies colombiansquad ovoliam fondface halfvietnamese sugarbabykink zainoffical liamsquad nouisaf britshstyles protectharold gayfic samosasforzayn masculiam poutineharry bootycraic zeycnce stylesnjh +blogroll

thepenguinsquawksred  asked:

Hey mod, I know you feel really dissatisfied with everyone calling Tsukiyama trash, but I don't think the majority of them mean any harm and they aren't trying to send hate mail. I love him so much it makes me want to cry, yet in my heart he still is trash (in a good way?) and I definitely have no intention of insulting him as a character when I say that. It's kind of a fucked up way of treating your favorite character, I hope my shitty explaining skills might give some clarification on that.

hey thanks for the msg! I get what you mean, I understand the term is used for comical purposes and mean no harm at all. But lately this word has been spreading like wildfire and it’s just a little annoying how the majority of the fandom is like this. Especially if you’re hosting an ask blog/rp blog the trash questions really start to pile up?? Idk I understand he has a bunch of ridiculous attributes but I don’t like how everybody just sums his whole character up as trash’. SORRY maybe I’m just really bias ugh I guess it’s a personal opinion thing

Everyone stop. Read the WHOLE thing. Don't say anything.

You can’t actually see it but there’s an invisible, cold and long war in the captainsparklez tag. I have been watching for quite some time.

Yes, if you go to the tag you don’t see anything major going on. It’s quiet, actually. But hell there is a war. The battle between the old and the new people in the fandom. The tag is splitting itself into two. Both parties have different opinions on how the tag should work

Then I realised, you guys don’t understand each other. You don’t like people posting opinions.

And here am I, stuck in-between. Furious.

I want to stop it but I can’t… for now, every single word I type may result in dangerous consequences.

But I need to get this out of my mind, I will not let this fandom collapse, I love this fandom and of course, all of you… Okay.

Don’t move, don’t post anything for the moment. Now read on.

Close your eyes and think. If you are one of the older members of the fandom, think. Think about the newer members, put yourselves in their shoes. Ask yourselves why they act this way. Imagine if you just joined the fandom, how would you feel if you were shunned and frowned upon? Did you talk to your younger members? Explain to them about certain things?

After all, you were once newbies yourselves, you should know.

Now for the newer members, first i would like to welcome you with open arms in this very shitty time.

Okay, put yourselves in your older members shoes. What have you done that made the others upset? Think. Read through the tag. Did you post anything that you regret later on? Did you talk to the older members? Explain to them why you acted this way.

I know you were excited when for example you saw Jordan shirtless or something idk, so was I. Try thinking and calming yourself down before you act. It will help.

To all of you, think.
Did you send anon hate mail to others? Because that is the most immature thing ever. Speak to them personally, don’t be such an idiot, for goodness sake.

And most importantly to ALL OF YOU, do you like the tag as it is now? DO YOU?



Treat others the way you would like to be treated. Remember this.

NOW GO and apologize, make new friends in the tag (those who you are not comfortable with), correct your mistakes. Leave that “secret tag”. Stop ignoring others.

There is so much we can do, provided we have the teamwork to do it.

The New Years resolution for this fandom will be to GET TOGETHER AGAIN.

THank friggin you