hornwoods

asoiaf meme (minor characters): 1/10 characters →  Daryn Hornwood heir to Hornwood

“When he saw that he was lost, he rallied his retainers and fought his way up the valley, hoping to reach Lord Robb and cut him down. And almost did.”
“He mislaid his sword in Eddard Karstark’s neck, after he took Torrhen’s hand off and split Daryn Hornwood’s skull open,” Robb said. “All the time he was shouting for me. If they hadn’t tried to stop him—”

The complexity of the relationship between Ramsay Bolton and Theon Greyjoy (Thramsay)

The relationship between Ramsay and Theon is dysfunctional and honestly pretty horrible in most ways, yet I find it very fascinating because of its complexity, meaning that I believe there is way more to it than just horror, torture and manipulation.

I have never written meta before, but I really enjoyed the process. I hope you like it!

Word count: 2,009

Ramsay and Theon quite clearly have many differences, but I also find that they have many similarities, which define their relationship. By similarities I mean the similarities in terms of what they both wish to achieve in life and how they cope with their issues. It is my opinion that they both to some extend have an identity crisis going on, which creates a very interesting dynamic between them. To get to the root of that, we have to take a look at their childhoods. Since we get much more detailed descriptions of both their childhoods (especially Ramsay’s childhood) in the ASoIaF books than in the show, that’s where I’ll gather my information from. So let’s start with Ramsay.

The start of Ramsay’s life wasn’t exactly merry and joyful as he was born of rape. Roose Bolton was out hunting one day when he discovered a peasant girl washing clothes in a river. He then decided to rape her and since her husband, the miller, wasn’t too content with the idea, Roose hung him and raped his widowed wife beneath the tree where he was swaying. A year later the peasant girl came to the gates of the Dreadfort with a baby in her arms seeking help from Roose, because her dead husband’s brother had stolen the mill from them and now her and her son had nothing to live of. At the time, Roose Bolton was married to Bethany Ryswell and had a trueborn son, Domeric, and he didn’t exactly want to deal with a bastard son and a useless peasant girl, so he let them into the castle with one single intent: to kill them both. But once he looked at the baby boy he couldn’t bring himself to do it because he saw that the baby had his pale eyes.

Roose let both mother and son depart unharmed and made sure they got the stolen mill back. Every year Roose would send a bag of stars to them, which Ramsay’s mother paid for with her silence; she was to never tell Ramsay or anyone else about who his father was. So Ramsay grew up in poverty with the ‘small folk’, he didn’t get an education, didn’t learn about honor, nobility or about courtesy, which explains his blunt and fearless nature.

But Ramsay was a difficult child and after a few years Ramsay’s mother went back to Roose to get help with raising him. Just wanting her gone, Roose gave her a servant, a terrible one, named Heke. Yet because he smelled so bad everyone instead called him Reek. Quickly, Ramsay and Reek became inseparable. Roose says that he isn’t sure if Ramsay corrupted Reek or if Reek corrupted Ramsay, but honestly I think they had pretty bad influences on each other. “No one could stand to be near him, so he slept with the pigs … until the day that Ramsay’s mother appeared at my gates to demand that I provide a servant for my bastard, who was growing up wild and unruly. I gave her Reek. It was meant to be amusing, but he and Ramsay became inseparable. I do wonder, though… was it Ramsay who corrupted Reek, or Reek Ramsay?” Roose Bolton tells Theon in ADWD (chapter 32). “The boy [Ramsay] is a sly creature by all accounts, and he has a servant who is almost as cruel as he is. Reek, they call the man. It’s said he never bathes. They hunt together, the bastard and this Reek, and not for deer. I’ve heard tales, things I can scarce believe, even of a Bolton.” Donella Hornwood says to Rodrik Cassell in ACOK (chapter 17).

Although Ramsay grew up lowborn he secretly always knew about his father and his right to live in a castle. “She disobeyed me, though.” Roose says, talking about Ramsay’s mother. “You see what Ramsay is. She made him, her and Reek, always whispering in his ear about his rights. He should have been content to grind corn”, he further says in ADWD (chapter 32). So Ramsay always knew he was worth more than everyone around him, he always knew that some day he would be granted the power he deserved. And somehow he eventually came to live with his father at the Dreadfort just like he wanted, where he made sure to kill Roose’s only trueborn son in order to become his only heir (at least that is what everyone including Roose believes, and personally I believe it too) 

Contrary to Ramsay’s upbringing in poverty, Theon grew up on Pyke as a prince until he was 9 years old. He was privileged, but his older brothers used to beat him up for being weak and his father Balon Greyjoy never really approved of him. Under those circumstances Theon became insecure already from boyhood. However, he always had to keep the insecurities concealed to not be perceived as weak. In order to contradict the picture of him being weak Theon had to constantly prove himself worthy to his family. After Greyjoy’s Rebellion Theon was taken away from his family to become Eddard Stark’s ward at Winterfell. With the Starks he wasn’t really accepted either; he was an outsider, not a true member of the family.

So both of them had messed up childhoods filled with disapproval and non-acceptance from the people around them, which obviously affected them and caused massive amounts of insecurities. Disapproval has a huge negative impact on a child’s life, causing their similar identity crisis.

The two of them have equal ways of dealing with their issues; the first one being that they simply deny the horrible facts. Ramsay knows that he was born of rape, yet he has convinced himself that his parents’ relationship was very romantic, that they fell in love with each other instantly when they met. In chapter 32 in ADWD Roose asks Theon, “Has my bastard ever told you how I got him?”, where to Theon replies, “Yes, my… m’lord. You met his mother whilst out riding and were smitten by her beauty”. “Smitten?”, Roose then says, laughing. “ Did he use that word? Why, the boy has a singer’s soul… Though if you believe that song, you may as well be dimmer than the first Reek.” Furthermore, Ramsay denies the fact that his father doesn’t love him. Reek has been with me since I was a boy. My lord father gave him to me as a token of his love”, Ramsay tells some Dreadfort men in ADWD (chapter 11). Obviously that is not true. As it was described earlier, Reek was given to Ramsay and his mother because Roose simply wanted to get rid of them. Also, Ramsay denies the death of his original Reek, which is why he simply replaces him with Theon.

Ramsay also desperately tries to compensate for the fact that he isn’t a trueborn Bolton. Exactly that is why I think he is so enthusiastic about flaying, as it is the Bolton custom. He overdoes it, desperately tries to show his father that he honors and upholds the family traditions in order to gain his accept and approval.

Similarly, Theon has convinced himself during his time at Winterfell that his family back at Pyke missed him utterly. During the years the image of his return to the Iron Islands has become more and more romanticized. When he actually returns to Pyke, he discovers that his father still disapproves of him and barely even sees him as his son. “It is as I feared. The green lands have you soft and the Starks have made you theirs”, Balon says to Theon in ACOK (chapter 11). So similarly to Ramsay, he compensates for the unapproval. Theon has to prove himself worthy to his father, and he attempts to do so by betraying Robb and taking Winterfell.

But Theon’s siege of Winterfell completely backfires on him and Ramsay’s attempt to prove himself a Bolton does not work, at least not for the first many years. They both fail their attempts at gaining their father’s approval. Roose eventually grants Ramsay the Bolton name and makes him his heir after Domeric’s death, but he still constantly reminds him that he is a bastard (meaning that he still disapproves of him) and that he is not entitled to the life he has at the castle. “All you have I gave you. You would do well to remember that, bastard”, Roose says to Ramsay in ADWD (chapter 32).

Another way both of them cope with their issues is through arrogance. It works as a shield, concealing what lies beneath. They both act coldly towards other people and they commit heinous crimes, however there is one BIG difference between the two: Ramsay completely lacks empathy for others and Theon does not. Deep down inside Theon cares for others, Ramsay really doesn’t. Personally I think Ramsay was born with a tendency to psychopathy, DNA has a say in those cases and Roose doesn’t exactly possess much empathy himself. It obviously damaged him even further throughout his life to never be approved of, respected or accepted by his parents. He was always last in line, always just the bastard. In addition to that, Ramsay is also clearly a sadist; he fully enjoys watching people suffer. Theon doesn’t enjoy inflicting pain on others. Those are the biggest differences between the two of them.

As I wrote just before, Ramsay can’t accept, doesn’t want to accept Reek’s death, so he needs a replacement and he specifically chose Theon. I have a theory why: Ramsay is pretty smart after all and he figures out that the reason Theon took Winterfell was to impress his father, so just like Ramsay, Theon does things in desperation to gain his father’s approval. Theon reminds Ramsay of himself and his issues, so Ramsay must change him. It is symbolic. Theon represents the sensitive aspects of Ramsay, the parts of himself that he is in denial about, so he breaks him down, ruins his identity by making him fully believe that he is a worm in human skin and by stealing his name. And he molds Reek into his own twisted version of a ‘friend’ so that Reek can give him the approval that Roose denies him.

I’ve thought about it and I think there is some symbolism in the aspect of flaying as well. Whenever Reek misbehaves Ramsay flays him, he removes parts of him. The skin Ramsay removes is symbolically the masks that Theon has been wearing all his life, he has never been true to himself, he has always pretended to be something he is not. And when he finally escapes from Ramsay he is a broken man, but he is honest. For the first time in his life he is true to himself. This is taking it far, I know, but I think that Ramsay in a twisted way helped Theon truly realize who he is because he brutally broke down his walls and removed his masks.

So Ramsay and Theon have had huge impacts on each other’s lives. Their relationship is based upon horrible deeds and manipulation, I’m not debating that. But it is my opinion that some positive things have come out of it, yet mostly when it comes to Theon. Theon will be able to recover from the terrible things that have happened, but I believe that Ramsay is damaged for good. His lack of empathy and his love for inflicting pain on others as well as his need and love for playing with people characterize who he is and I don’t believe that will ever change.

A Lesson In Courtesy

In honor of the sweet and wonderful @riahchan‘s birthday, I have written a little bit of Starkling fluff.

Jon is in the rookery when word reaches him.

The king has been injured.

He does not wait to hear more from the skinny lad that has been sent to find him, and all but sprints down the tower stairs into the keep proper, roughly jostling past servants and guardsman in his way. 

A coldness grips at his heart, far worse than anything he faced at the Wall.

This is what he has feared since the moment Wyman Manderly had produced Rickon from out of nowhere, hale and whole, after the dust had settled from the siege on the Boltons.

Surely the Gods would not be so cruel as to separate them when they had only just found one another again?

Jon skids to a halt in front of the Lord’s Chamber and throws open the door without knocking. He is not sure what to make of the sight that greets him.

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Creed_88 left the following comment on Brandon of the Bloody Blade:

If you ever have a mind to I’d love to see one about Brandon Snow, The last Stark King’s bastard Brother.

“I am not the best to send,” he’d told Torrhen.  “Send someone else.  Send Rufus Manderley or–”

“They do not have my blood.  You’re the only brother I have.  And King Aegon has his own bastard brother.  He’ll know your words have my heart.”

“I’d sooner kill him,” Brandon had snapped, but Torrhen had raised a hand.  Torrhen is younger than Brandon, and calmer.   It’s how I know you’re mine, his father had said, as though Brandon’s long face, grey eyes, and the fact that, after his voice had broken and become a man’s, he could confuse men into thinking he was his father just by speaking, weren’t proof enough. You have the wolf’s blood.  If Torrhen had the wolf’s blood, Brandon had never seen it.

“You’ll bring us peace.  You must.  Your king commands it.”

And so Brandon had gone, and Brandon now sits in a room filled with dragon sigils with three maesters at his side, sitting opposite another calm king.

“Wine?” Aegon Targaryen asks him, and Brandon shakes his head.  He gets tired with wine, and this early in the day, he would sooner have his wits about him.  

“Pomegranate juice, if you have it,” he said. 

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Awesome Westerosi Characters You Don’t Know Because You Only Watch Game of Thrones: #15 Jeyne Poole

This is another kinda-sorta not in Game of Thrones character. The above image is of Jeyne Poole on the show, but I don’t really remember her at all. I won’t argue with photographic proof.

Jeyne Poole (whose name is, sadly, pronounced “Jane Pool” not “Jean Pool”) was Sansa Stark’s closest friend at Winterfell. She’s young and innocent like Sansa. There is one scene where Gregor Clegane murders Hugh of the Vale during the Hand’s Tourney and Jeyne becomes hysterical. She is not used to such violence.

That makes what happens to her all the more horrifying. Since Arya Stark goes missing, it is Littlefinger’s idea to dress one brown-haired northern girl as another. Jeyne becomes “Arya Stark” and is married to Ramsay Bolton. You all probably know that on the show, this storyline was given to Sansa herself and it caused quite a stir.

Obviously, being married to Ramsay is no picnic. (His first wife, Lady Hornwood, ate off her own fingers because he starved her. This was another storyline cut from the show, perhaps mercifully.) Jeyne has it bad because, from the get-go, Ramsay knows she is not really Arya Stark. Ramsay keeps her confined to a tower where her cries can be heard night and day. She has scars on her back from whipping and bruises all over her body. Though, unlike the show, Ramsay is never actually seen raping her. 

At Castle Black, Jon Snow & Melisandra mount a plan to rescue his “sister” (he does not know the truth) that involves Mance Rayder (who was not really burned alive by Melisandre, that is a complicated plotline that also got cut) and a handful of wildling women infiltrate Winterfell and attempt to rescue her. At first, Jeyne thinks it’s a trick and resists, saying Ramsay will cut off her feet if she runs.

But eventually she and Theon make a daring jump from the battlements of Winterfell. Somehow the two survive. We next seem them through Asha Greyjoy’s eyes (Asha is called “Yara” on the show–she is Theon’s sister). She no longer recognizes Theon. 

Jeyne Poole might not be the best fighter or a savvy political operator, but she managed to survive in the most horrific situation. I think that makes her awesome.

Other Awesome ASOIAF characters

Image of Jeyne Poole is screencap from Game of Thrones

anonymous asked:

Do you think that Wyman Manderly is sincere in claiming that the old customs officers were still loyal to King's Landing or is he taking the chaos and inexperience of a new administration to consolidate his power in White Harbour with more loyal/less scrupulous appointees?

Both.

Here’s the thing about our good friend Wyman Manderly: he believes in doing well by doing good and vice-versa. He’s always going to be there for the Starks, and he’d never be so crude to demand to be compensated first…he’s not a Frey after all. Instead, he steps forward as the good vassal in times of need, and then he comes forward with all kinds of helpful suggestions about how he can be even more helpful if he was given all kinds of new offices. And it’s understood that, just as it would be crude to demand payment in advance, it would be rude to deny such a loyal vassal such a minor favor…

But here’s the thing - he’s not lying about any of it, because he doesn’t have to. Of course the royal customs officers who were in place before the War of Five Kings aren’t going to support a rebellion against the Iron Throne, so they need to be replaced. And I’m sure the people who replaced them were loyal to Robb Stark, because Wyman Manderly would have made sure of it. Likewise, establishing a mint or a royal navy are absolutely in Robb Stark’s best interests - but they’re also going to rebound to Wyman Manderly’s benefit by boosting White Harbor’s economy and military power. 

Where things get trickier is the Hornwood Question and what happens when Wyman starts conflating what’s good for House Manderly and what’s good for the North. On the one hand, Wyman was perfectly happy to play the normal Northern political game when it came to the Hornwood lands. But when Ramsay broke the rules and it didn’t look like Rodrik was going to do anything, Wyman didn’t hesitate to occupy the Hornwood lands “for their own protection.” And that’s the kind of thing that can be politically destabilizing, and you get the sense that, as with Garth Greybeard, the Manderlys were not entirely innocent when it came to their feud with the Peakes. 

But…and this is important, they’re still mostly constructive, and as long as their liege lord maintains a firm hand, giving them enough of a return on their good work without giving away the shop, and making sure that the rewards get spread around liberally and the Manderlys are made to play nicely with the others so that jealousy doesn’t give way to feud, they’re a credit to their kingdom.

Typical Girls Names of The North
  • Alys (Alys Stark was a daughter of Lord Cregan Stark and Lady Alysanne Blackwood, Alys Karstark I married Lord Brandon Stark, Alys Karstark II married to Sigorn, Magnar of Thenn)
  • Alysane- a varient of the popular Alysanne (Alysane Mormont also known as the Young She-Bear is Lady Maege Mormont’s second daughter.)
  • Aregelle (Aregelle Stark was the eldest daughter of Elric Stark and Serena Stark she married Robard Cerwyn)
  • Arra (Arra Norrey was married Lord Cregan Stark) 
  • Arrana (Arrana Stark was the youngest daughter of Edric Stark and Serena Stark she married Osric Umber)
  • Arsa (Arsa Stark was a daughter of Lord Brandon Stark and Lady Alys Karstark)
  • Arya (Arya Flint was married to Rodrik Stark grandmother to Eddard, Arya Stark Lord Eddard and Catelyn Tully’s second daughter)
  • Barbrey (Barbrey Ryswell was married William Dustin and is the current lady of House Dustin)
  • Berena (Berena Hornwood is wife of Leobald Tallhart and the sister of the current Lord Halys Hornwood, Berena Stark was the eldest daughter of Lord Beron Stark and Lady Lorra Royce)
  • Eddara (Eddara Tallhart the daughter of Ser Helman Tallhart)
  • Erena (Erena Glover the daughter of the current Lord Robett and Lady Sybelle Glover)
  • Jyana (Jyana Reed is the wife of Lord Howland Reed and the mother of Meera and Jojen Reed)
  • Lorra (Lorra Royce was married to Lord Beron Stark)
  • Lyanna (Lyanna Mormont the youngest daughter of Lady Maege Mormont, Lyanna Stark I the only daughter of Cregan Stark and Lady Lynara Stark, Lyanna Stark II sister to Lord Eddard)
  • Lyanne (Lyanne Glover was married Lord Willam Stark)
  • Lyarra (Lyarra Stark was the second daughter of Rodrik Stark and Arya Flint and married to her cousin once removed Lord Rickard Stark, and had four children with him; Brandon, Eddard, Lyanna and Benjen Stark.)
  • Lyessa (Lyessa Flint is the current Lady of Widow’s Watch)
  • Lynara (Lynara Stark was the third wife of Lord Cregan Stark)
  • Lyra (Lyra Mormont is the third daughter of Lady Maege Mormont)
  • Lysara (Lysara Karstark was married to Artos Stark)
  • Sansa (Sansa Stark I was the Lady of Winterfell and the second daughter of Rickon Stark and Jeyne Manderly she married her father’s half-brother Lord Jonnel Stark, Sansa Stark II first daughter of Eddard Stark and Catelyn Tully)
  • Sarra (Sarra Stark was the eldest daughter of Lord Cregan Stark and Lady Alysanne Blackwood)
  • Serena (Serena Stark was the eldest daughter of Rickon Stark she married twice once to Jon Umber and then to her uncle Edric Stark)
  • Wylla (Wylla Fenn was from the Neck and was the mother of Lord Brandon Stark’s bastard son Lonnel Snow, Wylla Manderly is the second daughter of Ser Wylis Manderly and Leona Woolfield and granddaughter to Lord Wyman)
  • Wynafryd (Wynafryd Manderly is the eldest daughter of Ser Wylis Manderly and Leona Woolfield and granddaughter to Lord Wyman)

losttreemonster  asked:

Did Jon Arryn have any control over the marriage betrothal planning for Ned Stark when he was his ward? (Theon, in ACOK, suggests that Eddard could have married him to one of his daughters.) Could guardians arrange marriages for their wards without their father's involvement? If so, who would Jon Arryn want for him? Would their be a difference between who Jon Arryn would want and Rickard Stark's ambitions?

Thanks for the question, losttreemonster.

Well, for one, I think what Theon thought might happen was more wish fulfillment on his end, rather than a realistic scenario.

Now, I would think that most of the power of betrothal probably lies with the biological family. This is the family looking for the greatest advantage for itself, after all, and the family that has ultimate power over that individual. Fostering creates a special kind of Westerosi kinship, but the true head of an individual’s House is still going to have decisionmaking power over his or her fate, including presumably marriage.

That being said, a fostering family would certainly have some interest in its foster child’s betrothal; indeed, fostering can sometimes be the first step to a betrothal, as we see with Sam Tarly’s abortive fostering plan. With fostering being a promotion of alliance between two families, the best way to continue that good feeling and show of favor is binding them in a visibly permanent way - that is, a marriage. I don’t doubt, for example, that Lord Anders Yronwood took notice of daughter Gwyneth’s fondness for Prince Quentyn Martell with an eye to betrothing them when Gwyneth came of age: the future Princess of Dorne Arianne might favor the anti-Yronwood Prince Oberyn, but with her own heir (for want of issue) married to an Yronwood, there would still be Yronwood presence at the Martell court. Likewise, with the Glovers raising - and grooming - Larence to be a potential Hornwood heir, if he had been legitimized and raised to his father’s seat I could see Galbart and Robbett marrying him to a Glover relation, to keep Glover influence over the riches of the Hornwood. This is also why I mentioned that fostering Robb at Karhold might be nuptially dangerous: Rickard Karstark might have assumed that lovely Alys would be betrothed to the heir to Winterfell and his foster son as a matter of course.

With Jon Arryn, I tend to see him as the elder statesman of the southron ambitions bloc, and that he worked closely on the web of marriages arranged among himself, Rickard, and Hoster. After all, if my interpretation of southron ambitions is correct, the whole point was for each of the paramount lords to think of himself not as an individual unit but as a member of a powerful high aristocratic class, whom the crown could not push around without repercussion from the others. If Jon Arryn had ideas about Ned’s or Robert’s marriages, I’m sure he discussed them with Rickard and Hoster; all the children of the next generation were potential marital pawns, to be used to the greatest advantage of the bloc.

The Queen Regent (NFriel)

silentstep  asked:

Why was Ned never betrothed to anyone in his youth? + Who would have been a potential match for him, had Rickard and Brandon lived as they expected to?

Well, Ned was only about 18 as of the Tourney at Harrenhal, and men in Westeros often marry much later than girls. (Who may marry after flowering, but far more typically near adulthood at 16.) With Brandon and Lyanna betrothed south, Rickard was probably holding out for something else with Ned… possibly another southern match, if the Southron Ambitions theory is correct. Or possibly Rickard was considering a northern match for Ned, to mollify his bannermen who would have been expecting a Stark for one of their children. (Such as Lord Rodrick Ryswell, who pretty much threw his daughter Barbrey at Brandon, and tried for Ned too.) A second son isn’t as prestigious as the next lord or only daughter, but any Stark is nothing to turn up your nose at. Either way, most likely Rickard was judging all the options, waiting for feedback from his bannermen after Brandon and Lyanna’s weddings, waiting to see how things were going with Mad King Aerys, before deciding to do anything definite with Ned.

So, of southern ladies, there’s lots of possibilities. To match the Stark connections to the Riverlands and Stormlands, a Vale lady could be an option, maybe a Royce or a distant cousin via Jocelyn Stark (Waynwood, Corbray, or Templeton), though Ned’s fostering with Jon Arryn was probably alliance enough. For Dorne, @goodqueenaly​ has a great post about the pros/cons re a marriage to Ashara Dayne re Southron Ambitions, which would apply to other Dornish bannermen too. The Westerlands were being handled by the Tullys at the time, and Tywin would have said hell no for Cersei anyway, and any other house there wouldn’t have been much use. And if SA was trying to reach out to the Reach too, there’s Janna or Mina Tyrell, or maybe a Hightower girl (though not Alerie, she was already married).

But if Rickard was planning on keeping Ned in the North, for balance and bannermen-sweetening (which Barbrey thinks unlikely, but y’know she is slightly paranoid), there’s quite a few northern ladies to list. Though first I should note that Rickard might have considered Barbrey Ryswell damaged goods because of Brandon, and if so it’s possible there weren’t any other sufficiently highborn northern ladies who’d flowered yet, which could also be why there hadn’t been any betrothals made. For example, Sybelle Locke (now Glover) has rather young children now, so it’s probable she would have been way too young at the time. Berena Hornwood’s eldest child was born c.285, so she’s probably a little closer to the right age, but perhaps was still too young for marriage or betrothal back then. Donella Manderly would certainly have been old enough (if not too old), but was probably already married or betrothed to Halys Hornwood. Jonelle Cerwyn would actually have been just the right age (14, in 281) for betrothal at least, though she’s “plump and homely” so maybe Rickard thought she wasn’t good enough.  And Bethany Ryswell was also married already (Domeric Bolton was born c.281 or before that), as was the unnamed Glover girl (married to Jorah Mormont). After them… um… Leona Woolfield (now Manderly)? Nope, the Woolfields are likely sworn to the Manderlys, and therefore not a house high enough for Ned, or for Rickard’s plans rather. Jyana Reed (whatever her maiden name might be) would also likely be not quite highborn enough as she’s a crannogwoman from a house sworn to the Reeds. And, well, that’s it for named Northern ladies – there would have been others, I’m sure, in the mountain clans and in the rest of the North, but I don’t know their names so I can’t judge their matchability.

Anyway, there’s a nice list of possibilities for Ned for you. Hope that helps!

Catelyn waited until they had quieted. “My lords,” she said then, “Lord Eddard was your liege, but I shared his bed and bore his children. Do you think I love him any less than you?” Her voice almost broke with her grief, but Catelyn took a long breath and steadied herself. “Robb, if that sword could bring him back, I should never let you sheathe it until Ned stood at my side once more… but he is gone, and hundred Whispering Woods will not change that. Ned is gone, and Daryn Hornwood, and Lord Karstark’s valiant sons, and many other good men besides, and none of them will return to us. Must we have more deaths still?”

“Oberyn wanted vengeance for Elia. Now the three of you want vengeance for him. I have four daughters, I remind you. Your sisters. My Elia is fourteen, almost a woman. Obella is twelve, on the brink of maiden-hood. They worship you, as Dorea and Loreza worship them. If you should die, must El and Obella seek vengeance for you, then Dorea and Loree for them? Is that how it goes, round and round forever? I ask again, where does it end?” Ellaria Sand laid her hand on the Mountain’s head. “I saw your father die. Here is his killer. Can I take a skull to bed with me, to give me comfort in the night? Will it make me laugh, write me songs, care for me when I am old and sick?”

anonymous asked:

Inspired by the Theon question, if The North American was only able to bring half its strength south with Robb, why then was Theon and the other Iron Born commanders able to make so much inpact against fortified strongholds, which the Iron Born should be numerically and tactically disadvantaged against?

Discussed in my analysis of ACOK. Short version is that the North didn’t mobilize ahead of the invasion and then got distracted and divided by the Hornwood Crisis. 

And then the scriptwriters for Westerosi Wrestlemania CCXCIX got a little bit crazy, so Theon fluked the capture of Winterfell and Reek hit Rodrik Cassel’s whole army upside the head with a folding chair while the ref wasn’t looking…

The signs as houses from Game of Thrones

Aries: House Tyrell

Taurus: House Arryn

Gemini: House Lannister

Cancer: House Baratheon

Leo: House Martell

Virgo: House Hornwood

Libra: House Karstark

Scorpio: House Florent

Sagittarius: House Targaryen

Capricorn: House Stark

Aquarius: House Redwyne

Pisces: House Estermont

theasexualscorpio  asked:

Hello! I'm working on a canon-divergent AU fic, and I was wondering...what are acceptable reasons to break a betrothal in Westeros?

Ummm… mostly we just know unacceptable reasons, really. I mean, it depends what you mean by “acceptable”. Just because one party decides to break the betrothal contract doesn’t necessarily mean the other party’s going to be especially pleased by it. And there’s certainly going to be some social criticism, one way or the other. Also, in our-world medieval times, where these could be the reasons to invalidate a betrothal:

  • revelation of an existing betrothal or marriage
  • evidence of infidelity
  • evidence of infertility
  • failure to meet the financial or property stipulations of the betrothal contract

the party whose actions invalidated the betrothal generally had to pay some kind of financial penalty. There could even be a suit for breach of promise.

But I can at least give you some reasons for broken betrothals we’ve seen in ASOIAF:

  • Joffrey Baratheon and Sansa Stark: the treason of Eddard Stark. (“Your Grace, the gods hold betrothal solemn, but your father, King Robert of blessed memory, made this pact before the Starks of Winterfell had revealed their falseness. Their crimes against the realm have freed you from any promise you might have made. So far as the Faith is concerned, there is no valid marriage contract ’twixt you and Sansa Stark.”) Mutual agreement on both sides. (Although Sansa had to make sure she didn’t look like she was pleased by it.) Note that Ned had wanted to break the betrothal based on the revelation of Joffrey’s incestuous parentage, so that would also be a reason to consider a marriage contract invalid.
  • Robb Stark and Roslin Frey: broken by him, because he married Jeyne Westerling instead. Caused the Freys to desert him, and also eventually the Red Wedding, so y’know… not exactly acceptable there.
  • Arya Stark and Elmar Frey: broken by the Freys, after Robb married Jeyne; pretty much mutual (Robb was in no position to complain, and Arya never even knew she was betrothed to begin with).
  • Brienne of Tarth and Ronnet Connington: broken by Ronnet, on meeting her, because he thought she was ugly. No mention of any financial penalties, but certainly the parents were displeased (and Brienne was utterly crushed).
  • Brienne of Tarth and Humphrey Wagstaff: because she beat him in single combat. Mutual, as he had told her he would expect her to not wear armor, and obey his wishes or be chastised, and she said she’d only allow herself to be chastised by a man who could outfight her. No mention of any financial penalties.
  • Maegor Targaryen and Rhaena Targaryen: not sure how definite the betrothal actually was (whether it was just proposed or what), but it was broken by the High Septon on the grounds of incest.
  • Duncan Targaryen and the daughter of Lord Lyonel Baratheon: broken by him, because he married Jenny of Oldstones. Which started a mini-war because of the insult to the Baratheons.
  • Jaehaerys Targaryen and Celia Tully: broken by him, because he eloped with his sister Shaera. Caused major offense to the Tullys, though it didn’t go as far as war.
  • Shaera Targaryen and Luthor Tyrell: broken by her, because she eloped with her brother Jaehaerys. Ditto re the Tyrells.
  • Daeron Targaryen and Olenna Redwyne: broken by him, because he preferred the company of his boyfriend. It’s not said how offended the Redwynes were, but Olenna likes to say she was the one who put an end to the betrothal.

(Also, several betrothals broken by the death of one of the parties before the wedding: Alys Karstark and Daryn Hornwood, Brienne of Tarth and the younger son of Bryen Caron, Robert Baratheon and Lyanna Stark, Catelyn Tully and Brandon Stark, Arianne Martell and Viserys Targaryen, Viserra Targaryen and Lord Manderly, Laena Velaryon and the son of a former Sealord of Braavos, Lucerys Velaryon and Rhaena Targaryen, Jacaerys Velaryon and Baela Targaryen, Tywald Lannister and Ellyn Reyne.)

Oh, and note that according to one rumor, Rhaenyra Targaryen tried to seduce Criston Cole because she hoped if her betrothed Laenor Velaryon found out she was not chaste, he would break their betrothal. (She didn’t want to marry him, as he was gay.) Though whether she was a virgin at her marriage or not, she and Laenor were married anyway.

Anyhow, hope that helps!

anonymous asked:

Hi, since we are on the topic of Lysa- what would have happened to her if Jon Arryn had died before both of them producing a son? (I'm of the believe that producing children is teamwork of the parents 😉) Say straight after she has another miscarriage when it's confirm she has nothing tying her to the Vale? would she go back to Riverrun? who decides her fate? what will happen to the succession of the Eyrie? what of Recency for Harry Harrold? Thanks

Thanks for the question, Anon.

There are a few examples of Westerosi widows without (surviving) children who remained in their marital homes following their husbands’ deaths. After the deaths of Lord Hornwood and young Daryn, for example, Lady Donella remained in Hornwood Castle, the target of many nuptial ambitions. Lady Barbrey Dustin has herself become the Lady of Barrowton, ruling it on her own since the death of Lord Willam (because there are no close Dustin heirs, perhaps or those that are are themselves too intimidated to argue with the fearsome, capable, and clever Widow of Barrowton). 

However, I think that - had Lysa been widowed from Jon Arryn without a surviving child from the marriage - she would have gone back to Riverrun. Unlike Barrowton, which seemed to have no close Dustin heirs, and unlike the Hornwood, where there were many arguable claimants, there is a cognizable heir to the Eyrie - young Harry Hardyng, 10 or 11 years old at the time of Robert’s birth. True, little Harry might not be as close in blood relation to Lord Jon as, say, Larence Snow or Beren Tallhart were to Lord Halys Hornwood, but Harry would have benefited from being the last known legitimate descendant of Lord Jasper Arryn. There may well have been an argument over who would play regent to the new Harrold Arryn - his cousin Lady Waynwood and the powerful and ambitious Bronze Yohn Royce probably chief among the candidates - but I have no doubt his succession as the heir of House Arryn would have been assured. 

In all this, the Widow Arryn would have had little place. No one would have considered her for whatever regency young Harry was going to have; a Tully of Riverrun might rule the Eyrie for her Arryn son, but a Tully of Riverrun with no blood ties to the new Arryn heir would never play regent when there were old-blooded Vale lords (and ladies) ready and eager to assume that position. Whoever did emerge with the regency would decide what happened to Lysa, and that would depend on what Westerosi law and custom decreed - which, of course, is highly unknown to us. If she had some sort of dower property in the Vale left to her by the terms of her marriage contract, she might have retired there (though who knows how standard that is among Westerosi Houses). It’s also possible that she would have been allowed to stay in the main Arryn properties, and given some deference as the Dowager Lady of the Eyrie.

Still, I think most likely she would have returned home to Riverrun. There was little reason to stay, if there were no widow’s portion keeping her in the Vale and no place in the new Arryn’s regency. She would have also been at most in her mid-20s - as Myranda Royce would put it, “a widow, but scarce used”. Hoster, canny and ambitious when moving his children around the nuptial chessboard, might have wanted to use her again. He would not have become grandfather to the next Lord of the Eyrie, but he could still make use of his relatively young daughter for some political sentiment, probably one a little closer to home. Whether Lysa would have personally enjoyed leaving Petyr Baelish (he certainly wouldn’t come back with her to Riverrun, not as long as Hoster was in power) returning to the childhood home where she had loved her father’s ward and been forced to abort his child, living with the father who had insisted on the latter, can only be speculated. 

The Queen Regent (NFriel)

hey everyone!! as we all know, 2016 is almost over (tHANK gOD)… this means it’s time for me to appreciate everyone i follow on tumblr that brightens up my dash from day to day ((:

bolded = friend/fave
italics = mutuals
italics + bolded = both !!

A - D

@aadsfasdfasdfasdfasdfas | @acebodhi | @adam-prrish| @adamnpynch | @adampairrsh | @adamparrisih | @adamsprrish | @addine997 | @adriansydney | @agentntasha | @agetwellcard | @aglixnbysweater | @ahprodithe | @aliiciavikander | @allstooswells | @andsowewalkalone | @angelinasjoli | @annabethchaes | @annaiisekeating | @anothersinner | @aphroditce | @aprhodites | @asteriea | @atwells | @avcngrs | @avengher | @barnesteves | @barnns | @bbuchanann | @beardedgrimes | @beautifulstragic | @bedonurie | @behindtheseas | @bellecs | @bettersman | @bharnes | @bhrnes | @biflash | @biparrish | @birdmacklin | @bisexualparrish | @bitchevans | @bleuczerny | @bloesargent | @blondekimseokjin | @blood-diner | @blowsargent | @blueasargent | @bluegansey | @bluemavor | @bluesartgent | @bluesartgents | @blughsargent | @bluvsargent | @bobbinorse | @bonfiresparks | @bookthiefes | @bradsbvry | @brandonflower | @brandonfloweris | @brekkerghafa | @brendons | @brendons-urie | @bruuce | @bsrgent | @buchananbarness | @buckybarrnes | @buckycap | @buckyfalcon | @buckymybabe | @buckypool | @buckyrebel | @buckys | @buckythevampyrslayer | @c-h-a-i-n-s-a-w | @cabeswatre | @caliypso | @captainevans | @captainogers | @carlyraejepsen | @cassiesulliven | @cassiopheias | @chandelyer | @chirstopherevans | @chrisbastian | @chriservans | @chrisevansz | @chrissevan | @civilbucks | @cocainesmile | @coffeebisexual | @cpt-sgrogers | @cptincassian | @cressdarnel | @cryobaby | @cznery | | @daddysebastianstan | @daenerystargaryn | @daisyridlay | @daisyridly | @dallnweeks | @damnavengers | @damnfinecooper | | @danwilds | @darkonarrival | @daryl-diixon | @daylightring | @dazemalbus | @deanyw | @deapdools | @dickgasney | @dixons-poncho | @dmentor | @dracomaffoy | @dreamthievves | @drunklesbian | @duhsleys |

E - H

@elizabethbaenks| @elizabethsturner | @emm-yem | @excelsiohr | @exelseor | @falloutby | @fck-r | @feyrearchuron | @feyrearheron | @fl0ral-summer-taco | @forassgard | @fqntasticbeasts | @frangipcnes | @frnkenstein | @gamora | @ganceys | @gansaey | @ganseys | @gasney | @gaybluesargent | @girlwithapumpkintattoo | @glitteryghostt | @goldensteve | @grandparogers | @greyhwaren | @greywuren | @grrrrrimes | @gunseys | @haleyscott | @halscv | @harleyquinns | @havleyatwell | @heart | @helengansey | @hellamarvel | @henriettadrawl | @herhmione | @hermicnes | @hermiunes | @hershelgrimes | @hhermes | @historyy | @holtzbert | @honkschraders | @hornwoods |

I - N

@ihearttitanic | @inejgaffas | @inejs | @infiniitywars | @inlvstris | @itsremuslupin | @jamesbaarnes | @jamesbcrnes | @jamespottver | @jamiefrazser | @jcnesargent | @jcstcns | @jesperfehay | @jillianholtsmann | @josephkaivnsky | @josephkavinsky | @joshrun | @julietcapulaet | @julietteferrarrs | @jvedi | @katcwinslet | @kate-winslets | @katewinslet | @katefuckingwinslet | @katewisnlet | @kavinky | @kittyseb | @kiyioko | @kwinslet | @lancetucker | @laufeysons | @lauraharrier | @legohlas | @leyiaorgana | @lostgansey | @love-libertalia | @lukeshea | @lunors | @lynchsronan | @maggiegreenie | @maisiewilliems | @margorobbie | @maximoft | @mermaeid | @metrions | @michaelsnikita | @minyrad | @mistaekn | @moonslesbian | @mythohs | @nataliedomrer | @natsharomanova | @nehmesis | @neilljcsten | @neptunics | @nerdydean | @nicholashoulty | @nickyhemmick | @nightlock | @ninazaenik | @ninazenyik | @noahczerney | @noahczernn | @noahczerny | @noahcznys | @noorasaetrae | @noorasatere | @normreedus |

O - R

@odairannies | @oddholtz | @ofblume | @ofglendower | @ofkavinsky | @ofwelshkings | @ohbuckyboy | @ohdeanfell | @ohghafas | @ohparrish | @oldbrooklynsoul | @olkwa | @onedeadgansey | @orsonkrenic | @oydssey | @paarkers | @paelchekov | @paladeckis | @pamdeamidala | @papajensen | @patrioclus | @patroiclus | @paynes | @peachyplumbucky | @peletierscarol | @perksofbeingafanboy | @peterparkest | @philipssheas | @point-and-fluff | @princenocto | @professorx | @prokpenko | @punkxsteve | @pureblud | @puresebastian | @pynch | @queeniigoldstein | @ravcncycle | @ravencircle | @ravnboy | @ravnsclaw | @rcvenblue | @reaperrogers | @redshood | @reneevvlkr | @rhvmaresh | @rhysahd | @rhysands | @richardgansvy | @richardgensay | @richardpapan | @richiesgansey | @richnardgansey | @rickreedus | @rnnlynch | @robertdowenyjr | @robotbees | @romavoff | @ronaldwearsley | @ronansparrishs | @ronesweasley | @ronunlinch | @rosedewson | @roses-renegade |

S - V

@saetresnooras | @samvwinchester | @santaalec | @sarchengseys | @say-something-to-him | @sbstianstan | @scarletwitch | @scmwilsons | @sebandchris | @sebastianstans | @sebastianstanz | @sebastiansttan | @sebastiinstan | @sebastionstan | @sebbys | @sebschris | @sebstans | @sehbstan | @sergeantbucky | @sgtbrnes | @sgtjimbarnes | @sharasbey | @shoother | @skyesrogers | @sociapathic | @softgannsey | @softkaz | @sokohvia | @spacenerdevans | @spellshaken | @spideromanoff | @spoopyyoongii | @stansclan | @startouchd | @steuebucky | @steven-rogers | @stevensyeun | @steveogers | @steverogers | @steverogerx | @steverogesl | @steverogesr | @steverogiers | @stevesboyfriend | @stevestucky | @stevetogers | @steviebucks | @steviepinkiepierogers | @swifs | @syzygay | @targaryenskywalker | @tayliswift | @taylrs | @tchallasams | @teambucky | @teylors | @theavengers | @thedangerboys | @theravenkng | @thewincheters | @thiccevans | @thragedy | @tjhammomd | @tonystarking | @tylorswft | @ungraetful | @urieviolet | @vanghoegh | @venomousvelvet | @virtualcookies4 |

W - Z @wadewilsons | @wesandresons | @winonaryder | @winoncryder | @wintercptn | @winterwldow | @witchbarnes | @wylanvaaneck | @wylanvnek | @yomarvel |

well, that should be it!! and to everyone i follow, thank you once again for always brightening up my dash. and to my mutuals, you are always welcome to come say hi and/or tag me in stuff!! (i never bite). and also, have a wonderful 2017….hopefully it’ll be better than this crap year…
xx, maggie

housewildfire  asked:

If the Stark children were to be married to Stark banner men (like many Stark did before) who do you think they would marry (I hope you understand the question!) :)

Even in a world where the plot of ASOIAF never happens, I don’t think the Stark children ever would have all married northern bannermen. I mean, look at the Stark family tree – even in generations where boys were marrying daughters of bannermen, girls were being sent to the Vale and Stormlands. And Blackwood brides went north more than once, a Royce too. In this generation, particularly with Catelyn’s southern connections, Sansa almost certainly would have gone south (to the Riverlands or Vale if not further), and probably Bran too (especially with his dreams of knighthood). You can see some ideas along those lines here and here.

But let’s assume for some reason Ned Stark is in a super-isolationist mode, and prefers to neither import nor export brides. So let’s look at the eligible young people of the North, see who’s out there. I’m going to use how old they’d be in 300AC as a baseline because it’s easiest for math, although even Robb and Jon and Sansa would very probably marry after that date (yes, Robb and Jon would be 17, but boys usually marry later, and Sansa’s only 14 and girls normally marry after adulthood at 16, not immediately after menarche). Also since the plot doesn’t happen, anyone who died past the start of AGOT is still alive in this AU.

Keep reading

Tormund’s Wedding X

http://archiveofourown.org/works/10614180/chapters/23640264

They all woke up before dawn. Robin Arryn refused to get out of bed, he protested a lot while Lord Royce helped him put on his clothes and boots but then he was reminded of the lemon cakes and the blueberry tarts that would be waiting for him. It was too dark and cold as they prepared the horses. Brienne made sure they had enough provisions for their journey since they wouldn’t find many inns before they reached Hornwood. They would find Dreadfort on their way but Sansa didn’t want to even mention it, let alone go through it.

Robin was still sleepy as Lord Royce helped him up his horse, and not before long he was asking the group to stop for breakfast.

“Hasn’t he eaten already?” Tormund asked Brienne looking over his shoulder at the young lord riding behind them.

“He has” Brienne replied in a strict impatient tone. “Eggs and butter and two big slices of black bread, the inn keeper was woken up and prepared them especially for him. But Lord Arryn said the bread was too hard and he couldn’t chew it, so now he’s hungry again. Lucky us!…”

Tormund scoffed and turned again to face the road, the reins in his hands. “I could hear his whining all night, their room was next to mine. This pup is not fit to be lord, he’s not fit to lace his own boots. I remember Royce being so hostile against us Free Folk just before they pronounced Jon Snow king. And now look at him, practically breastfeeding that boy.”

“Oh gods, Tormund, now I’ll never be able to get that image out of my head” Brienne said wincing and squeezed the bridge of her nose.

Tormund chuckled as he watched her try to shake that thought off. Her cheeks were surprisingly red that morning and there was… something about her. Something different.

“You look refreshed” he said curiously. “Did you have a nice rest?”

Oh he was definitely teasing her. Brienne blinked a few times before she could form an answer.

“You look refreshed yourself!” she replied as she turned to him trying to conceal her annoyance.

“Aye. I had beautiful dreams” he said half-closing his eyes.

“Did you!” She cleared her throat. “Did you - did you dream of our… journey together?” she asked nervously.

“No. I dreamt of my wife. We were having babies. Lots and lots of them” he said wiggling his eyebrows.

“Good!” Brienne nodded emphatically, almost falling off her horse as she hopped nervously on the saddle.

“I can’t wait to be with her, you know. I’m thinking of baby names already” he grinned.

“Oh I’m sure. Very very sure.”

“How about you?” he said in an indifferent tone. “Did you rest at all?”

“Oh I did, I did.” She was nodding like crazy.

Tormund gave her a mocking smile as he bit his lower lip eagerly. “Because I could swear I heard a woman breathing heavily outside my door in the middle of the night. A nice walk does wonders to sleeplessness, or so I hear.”

Brienne went red as a beet. She was too shocked to even think of averting her eyes, she just stared at him.

“Or maybe it wasn’t you” Tormund continued. “Maybe it was Sansa. Does she get sleepless too?”

“It wasn’t Lady S-!” Brienne cried. She couldn’t help herself. It was hers or Lady Sansa’s honour. Choices choices.

Tormund burst into laughter as the sun was playing with his fiery mane. He had her in the palm of his hand. Brienne sighed and closed her eyes, defeated. Tormund shook his head, still laughing.

“You’re a terrible liar, Brienne. A terrible terrible liar.” He leaned towards her and by the way he was looking at her she knew, she just knew he was fucking her in his mind. “Next time you catch me alone in my reveries do honour me with your presence” he whispered in a husky voice that sent shivers down her spine. “I don’t bite. At least not until you let me.” And he gave her a generous smile.

An arrow hissed through the air and got stuck on the tree on his left scratching his cheek on its way. Brienne screamed “Get down!” and pushed him off his horse, tumbling down herself. More arrows came from nowhere hitting Lord Arryn on the foot and some of their horses. The boy squealed in pain and in his state of panic he spurred the horse causing it to gallop away. Lord Royce followed him into the woods as Sansa ordered her own horse to stop and looked around unable to make a move. As Brienne unsheathed her sword a group of armed men threw themselves at her and Tormund. She killed one of them and by the time she turned anxiously to see how Tormund was doing two of their attackers were already on the ground. This beast of a man didn’t waste his time, she thought numbly as she blocked another attack with her sword. She pulled out her knife and sliced the man’s throat in the blink of an eye. Blood sprayed all over her face blinding her. She wiped it off with a quick angry move. Two other men were running towards her swinging swords and axes. A bald man with scars on his face had already pulled Sansa from her horse, sticking a knife in her throat and forcing her to follow him. She was screaming Brienne’s name. Brienne growled and ran towards the Stark girl, piercing one of the men on her way. And that’s when another attacker hit her shoulder with an axe and threw her on the ground. She screamed in pain but was quick enough to roll over and avoid another blow. And then his head was split in two by Tormund’s sword.  As the severed body fell on the ground with a loud thump Tormund pulled Brienne up.

“They have Sansa!” she yelled at him. “Don’t let them get away!”

But it was too late, Sansa was nowhere to be seen, only her horse was left behind.

“Now what?” Tormund groaned. “They took two of our horses and I can’t see Royce anywhere.”

Brienne panted looking desperately at all directions.

“This man. There” she pointed at one of the men who was lying on the ground barely breathing. “He’s not dead yet.”

She kneeled by the wounded man. His breathing was laboured, Brienne had pierced his lungs. He was holding his chest that was now covered in a pool of blood.

“Tell me where they took her and I’ll give you a quick death” she said coldly. “Keep silent and I’ll let you rot slowly.”

The man coughed blood a couple of times before he could utter a word.

“She’s at… she’s at her husband’s castle. Now… Please… I told you what you wanted to hear. I beg you…”

Brienne stood up and with a steely determination pierced him through the heart.

“Where is she?” Tormund asked.

Brienne furrowed her brows. She couldn’t believe she had just lost Lady Sansa, she couldn’t believe the poor girl was held in that place.

“They took her to the Dreadfort.”