A sketchy thing I did, its been sitting in my folder forever so I’m just gonna leave it here. Might edit it later or maybe not. Anyway, thanks Stroud for the adventure even though you haven’t released the last book in australia yet!
A particularly annoying ghost is haunting the Ravenclaw tower, stopping Holly from studying. If she could convince anyone to take her problem seriously, maybe she’d be able to stop it and focus on exams - or maybe she’ll just spend the rest of her seventh year with yet another annoying companion, of the spectral instead of friendly sort.
So instead of focusing this post on just one person, I decided to write about Lee, Silver, and Barbara. I’m just gonna warn you, this post is very long, and probably contains a lot of spoilers. It’s your choice whether you read it or not, but don’t get upset with me because I did warn you.
Okay, so I’m gonna start with the facts. These are the things the writers/cast have said directly themselves.
1. “You may have already seen Harley as a person that you thought you had met and known for a long time. So we always reserve the right to sort of do that as well.” - Ken Woodruff
2. “We might see (her) in episode 22.” - John Stephens
3. “The person is somehow connected to the Joker Cult World.”
4. Harley’s appearance in the finale is gonna be crazy. Crazy enough to be the launching point for season four.
Here are some random facts I gathered, that you may or may not already know about Harley:
1. She’s an expert gymnast
2. Her main weapons are a giant mallet, a baseball bat, and sometimes a gun
3. She used to be a psychiatrist
4. She went to Gotham University and graduated top of her class.
5. Her first job was at Arkham Asylum
6. She hates fish
7. And she can’t swim
8. Harley is known to have a crush on Bruce Wayne, even though she loves Joker
9. She is incredibly intelligent (Amanda Waller once stated that she is a genius)
10. She once brought a broken family back together
11. She switches back and forth from good to bad
12. She is schizophrenic
13. One of the voices she hears is her rational side (Dr. Harleen Quinzel)
14. She is bi-sexual
15. Her aliases are Dr. Holly Chance, Dr. Jessica Seaborn, Lee Harkwin, Holly Quinn, Harleen Frances Quinzel, Harriet Shankar, GG Harlin, and Kelvar Vest Girl.
16. Harley has Histrionic Personality Disorder (being flirtatious or seductive, wanting to be the center of attention, provocative clothes, shallow impressionistic speech, dramatic and excessively emotional personal presentation, suggestible by others (gullible), overestimates the intimacy of their social relationships.)
17. She was the only one in her family to graduate from College
18. She’s constantly seeking a sense of identity but doesn’t know how.
19. Her home life was very chaotic
20. Her character is full of conflicting personas.
21. “I loved flushing away the control. The goals. The regiment way of life I’d had. I was finally free. Free to forget. To play for fun. To play crazy.”
22. “The downside of this is that I’ve started to feel numb. In school, they had a name for it: dissociation. My rational mind can recognize pain when I see it. But my rational mind is in a pretty small box.”
23. She has obsession
24. She uses her obsessions to help define herself
25. She likes to cling onto things to help create some sense of self in her mind
26. She uses other people and objects to help define herself.
27. She is a character of passion
28. She is a hopeless romantic (she is weak when it comes to things like vulnerability)
29. She is always trying to figure out who she is, and what her role is in the world.
30. Unlike the Joker, she actually loves people
31. Harley has a strong sense of compassion and loyalty towards the people in her life.
32. As a child, she was heavily abused by her father
33. She has OCD, Histrionic Disorder, Antisocial Disorder (maybe?), Schizophrenia
34. She has this illness where she gets off (it literally turns her on) when her partner does something bad.
Okay so let’s start with Barbara :)
Cons of her being Harley: 1. She never was, nor will she ever be a psychiatrist. That’s a huge part of Harley’s story (pretty much every Harley version was a psychiatrist) and after all the bad crap she’s done, I don’t ever see her being a one. I don’t think they would even let her, even if she wanted to.
2. She’s older than Jerome. Now I don’t really see this as a problem unless they want to stick with Joker being older than Harley.
3. She’s already turned crazy.. she’s supposed to meet Joker first, fall in love with him, then become Harley.
4. Her name is Barbara Kean (an actual character in the comics and I think two Batman movies). She started calling herself Barbara Queen, which Queen sounds similar to Quinn, but her name is still Barbara. There is no way that you can turn the name Barbara into Harley.
5. Harley is known to be extremely loyal to the people in her life. Barbara, on the other hand, will turn on anybody if it’s for her benefit. Including Tabitha, which is probably the closest person to her.
6. Now I have no clue how true this is, but someone on IG said that one of the writers want Harley and Barbara to team up. If this is true, then that would be amazing, and it would mean she isn’t Harley.
Pros: 1. She has the appearance description (blonde hair and blue eyes)
2. She’s switched back and forth from good and bad once
3. She’s really intelligent (She figured out Penguin was the one behind Isabella’s death.)
4. Out of all the girls, she has paralleled Jerome the most
5. She’s openly bisexual
6. She and Jerome already had a partner in crime relationship
7. She coincidentally fell through a glass window, which then put her in a comma.
8. She’s already met Selina and Ivy (she even shared her apartment with Selina for a bit)
9. She calls herself Barbara Queen (which sounds a lot like Quinn)
10. She was at first a kind, caring, selfless, and moral individual.
11. I think she has schizophrenia, as does Harley.
12. “The downside of this is that I’ve started to feel numb. In School, they had a name for it: dissociation. My rational mind can recognize pain when I see it. But my rational mind is in a pretty small box.” - Harley Quinn
13. “I loved flushing away the control. The goals. The regiment way of life I’d had. I was finally free. Free to forget. To play for fun. To play crazy.” - Harley Quinn
14. She grew up in a bad home, her mom would call her things like ‘her little piggy’.
15. She and Tabby already started a club called The Sirens.
16. She finds it to be passionate when a man hits their woman
17. Jerome can already persuade her
18. “You’re a little pain in the ass.” - Joker SS
19. She and Jerome had a connection the moment she walked into Arkham.
20. She’s basically the only character who laughs as much as Jerome/she’s also basically the only one (besides his cult) who finds him funny (so far)
21. She’s corny
22. We all know she’s crazy
23. She acts violently when upset without thinking
24. Harley is known to obsess over things, Barbara has this down pact. (She was obsessed with Jim, now she’s obsessed with wanting to be queen of the underworld)
25. She’s connected to the Joker Cult World obviously since she and Jerome have already met/interacted.
26. She’s flirty/seductive
27. She manipulates people to her advantage
28. “And right at the end of the season there is going to be a massive development for my character, so it’s going to be really exciting.” - Erin Richards
29. “What we did with Jerome, we basically said, how could we create a city.. or our job is to set Gotham up as a place where Batman is needed one day. And therefore what we did with Jerome, what if a character, took on that same anarchic chaotic sense of chaos that Jerome did, that the Joker did. And set a tone for Gotham. We’re doing the same thing with Barbara as in like if we take her to the very edge of what that character, the sanity of that character, what would emerge afterward. So yeah, we’re gonna explore that.” - Danny Cannon.
30. A fan asked Danny ‘so she maybe is Harley?’ and Danny replied with “I’ll get in so much trouble if I say this.”
31. “There will be a big reveal, so whether it’s that or not, we’ll have to wait and see.” - Erin Richards
32. “She could get a different kind of crazy I think. Like.. there’s a lot of different crazies. So I think we could maybe see her evolve into a different aspect of that.” - Erin Richards
33. Barbara’s ultimate goal is to belong/ find out who she is. (Harley is constantly seeking a sense of identity but she doesn’t know how.) (Harley is always trying to figure out who she is, and what her role is in the world.)
34. Harley uses her obsessions to help define herself (I believe Barbara does the same)
35. Harley likes to cling onto things to help create some sense of self in her mind (I believe Barbara also does this.)
36. Harley uses other people and objects to help define herself. (And this as well)
37. She kind of used one of Harley’s signature weapons (mallet, but it wasn’t giant)
38. “The transformation that’s gonna happen at the end of this season is a big secret. It will involve me reading more comic books.” - Erin Richards
Okay, so a lot of things match up with Barbara. It’s possible that she’s Harley, but that would be a bad move on the show’s part. Not because of age or anything, but because she’s the most obvious choice in my opinion. Also because she already has a very important role in the comics. If she becomes Harley, then that would mean that there will be no Batgirl in this universe. But then I thought of more possibilities. Like, Tabitha (Tigress) is like an older version of Catwoman.. and we all know Selina Kyle is gonna be the future Catwoman. Anyway, Tabitha is kind of like a proto-Catwoman in my opinion. What if they’re making Barbara the proto Harley? I know I’m not making sense, but what if they’re gonna keep Barbara as Barbara Kean still, but make her have these traits so she can be ‘the older version proto Harley’. I hope you all can understand me. Okay, Tabitha is gonna be in a really vulnerable place later into the season, and Selina is gonna be in a very dark place, where she has nowhere else to turn. Tabitha is basically gonna take Selina under her wing, and teach her things. So the proto, older version of Catwoman is gonna be helping the future Catwoman. What if they’re doing the same thing with Barbara? You get what I’m saying? Also, Erin said there is going to be a massive character development for Barbara. Yes, it probably would be a pretty big deal if she was to become Harley.. but it honestly wouldn’t be massive in my opinion. I mean we’ve already seen Barbara act crazy (a lot may I add), and it honestly wouldn’t shock me if she was to become Harley, because hello, it would be so predictable. What I would consider a major character development is if she maybe does something good for once. Like maybe save someone’s life, or changing and becoming a better person. Not saying that’s gonna happen, but that’s what I would consider a major character development. Also if she was to change for the better, maybe she and Jim could get back together and have Barbara Gordon (Batgirl) and their son James Gordon Jr. It would also make sense her having this mental instability because their son turns out being a sociopath. This would mean he got it from his mother genetically. Like I said, this probably won’t happen, but it would make more sense than them making her Harley. Also, who knows, maybe Barbara herself will become batgirl. I could see it happening because of these tweets
Leslie Thompkins :)
Cons: 1. Like Barbara, age. Like I said I don’t think age really matters. Especially since Jerome is the one coming onto the older women. The only way it would matter is if they’re sticking with Joker being older than Harley.
2. Not sure how accurate this is, but someone said that Lee is gonna do something really bad, and this something is gonna bring her and Jim together again.
3. She’s an actual character in the comics (as are Barbara, and Silver.)
4. She doesn’t have blonde hair, nor blue eyes (she’s still beyond beautiful though)
Pros: 1. Harley is known to have a sister (when she has Lucy, her sister takes care of her for Harley.) Lee mentions having a sister (in Jerome’s episode may I add) whose recipe she used.
2. Her nickname is Lee, which could easily be turned into Harley or Harleen. Her name is literally in the word Harley (Harlee; Also Harleen)
3. She is around the age of Grace Fairchild (one of the ogre’s victims) so my guess is she’s either in her early or mid-twenties. This would mean she’s actually not that much older than Jerome.
4. Lee Calvi is an alias for her and turns out Harley has an alias as Lee Harkwin
5. She was there when Jerome was first introduced
6. Jerome’s entire case fascinated her (this was Jim leading her to the interrogation room)
7. His case was the first, and only case where she went into the interrogation room with Jim.
8. She’s the only woman who has really been able to touch him, (She held and comforted him when they found his mother’s body, not to mention all the times he touched her, like at the gala, or when he was reborn and took her hostage.)
Bonus: “Everyone else sees the Joker laugh, but only Harley has ever seen him cry.” - Arleen Sorkin (He was faking, but still)
9. She worked at Arkham and could easily go back.
10. Jerome has both saved, and spared her life
11. She’s a doctor (she studied trauma but it’s not her area of focus)
12. Though it’s not her area of focus, she still basically counseled Barbara and Bruce. She also gives a lot of psychiatric advice.. examples:
(Lee: The way people, look at you. See you differently. You treat it like it’s a burden. You could be a source of pride or happiness even.
Jim: Thank you doctor, same time next week.
Lee: Don’t tempt me. I can psychoanalyze the heck out of you. But I’m gonna resist the urge.)
(Lee: You need to get some trauma counseling.
Barbara: Doc, I’m happy. I’m happy to be alive. Which is why, Jim, I didn’t want to leave without saying thank you properly. Thank you for saving my life.
Jim: I was glad to do it.
Lee: Ms. Kean, trauma counseling, like yesterday. I have several recommendations for you.
Barbara: Really, Doc, I’m fine.
Lee: You’re not fine. After what you’ve been through nobody would be fine.
Barbara: Fine, if you will be my counselor. Why don’t we do it at my place.
Lee: No. I have some trauma training, but it’s not my area of focus.
Barbara: I like you. Okay, I can talk to you. Please?
Lee: Okay. Deal.)
(Lee: You were violently abducted. You nearly died. You must have been very scared. It’s normal to feel trauma. It’s nothing to be ashamed of.)
13. She can be corny, sassy, and sarcastic
14. She’s very intelligent (she and Harley both have intelligence listed as one of their abilities)
15. She’s tougher than she looks
16. The writers themselves said that Lee was nuts.
17. Lee is gonna be affected by the Alice Tetch Virus. Jim is gonna be fighting that while also fighting for Lee.
18. She’s becoming way darker
19. Lee and Jim finally had sex, but guess when they did it? After Jerome’s interrogation. They had been hinting at it for a bit but she would put it off because of work, and then because she got interested in the case.. while in the interrogation room you could tell that she was fascinated with Jerome and you could even see her smirk a little a few times. Then once the interrogation was over she talked about how it was ugly but thrilling, and then suggested for them to ‘go home’. Then they, ya’ know. But all of this after she watched Jerome. Makes you wonder if he turned her on. Not to mention that Harley actually has this illness where she gets turned on by her partner doing bad things.
Lee: Truly. It was ugly, but it was also kind of thrilling. Jim: Thrilling? Lee: Thrilling and scary. Like.. like looking down a deep, dark tunnel. Thanks for letting me be there.
20. Out of everyone Jerome came in contact with in ‘smile like you mean it‘ episode, she’s the only one he didn’t kill.
21. She was also the first person he had a casual conversation with since he was brought back to life.
22. Jerome obviously is attracted to her (and she is attracted to him as well) I mean..
Not only is his tongue so close to her face, but if you look closely you can see she feels his bicep.
And here she gently places her hand on top of his.
23. She wasn’t even scared of Jerome. I honestly don’t think she’s ever been scared of him. Just my opinion. He’s literally holding a gun to her and she doesn’t care
24. She’s the only one Jerome calls ‘doc’ (Joker calls Harley doctor a lot)
25. Lee was playing along with Jerome, kind of just putting up with him (Harley’s the only one who puts up with Joker’s crap)
26. She’s met Selina (they were playful and got along. “You’re cute.. for a doctor.” “Thanks, you’re cute.. for a gangster.”
27. She tends to get overly enthusiastic about things; Harley is known to be passionate (and obsessed) about things.)
28. She was present during it all. She was there when Jerome was first introduced, when they found his mother (she held and comforted him), when Paul gave them the message from ‘Lilah beyond the grave’, when the weapon was found, when Jim interrogated Jerome and his true nature showed, and when Jerome first woke up after being reborn.
29. Plus she was the one Jerome and Barbara took hostage at the gala.
30. She somehow has managed to be present during most, if not all of his most important scenes.. (the writers chose to have her present during all these scenes. They control every single thing that happens on the show.)
31. “Don’t let your hatred of me turn you into something you’re not”
32. “I wish I could do that.”
33. “There is going to be a huge development in Lee Thompkins storyline which affects Jim.“ - Erin Richards
34. Lee is affected by the Alice Tetch Virus.
35. If I remember correctly, Harley (Harleen) doesn’t become crazy until after she meets the Joker and falls in love with him. We haven’t seen Lee’s crazy side yet, but that doesn’t mean we won’t soon.
37. Look at how they interact/ look at each other
They both have a certain look when they look at each other. Like Lee is trying to put up a tough demeanor, but when she looks at him you literally see her eyes soften. It looks somewhat harsh because she’s trying to act tough, but you can also see desire. Jerome’s eyes soften too. I haven’t seen either of the two look at anybody else like that. Actions speak louder than words.
38. What was the point in him asking that? He probably wanted to know for personal reasons :)
39. Harley was serious and a little uptight at first when she interacted with the joker, kind of like Lee.
She has quite a lot of things in common with Harley, and she fits the most when it comes to Harley’s origin. She’s a doctor who studied trauma (even though it’s not her area of focus), her nickname is Lee, she’s incredibly intelligent, etc. In my opinion, Lee or Silver would be the best choice. Plus her and Jerome definitely have the chemistry, she’s connected to the Joker Cult World (she’s met and interacted with Jerome, aka Joker), She’s a character we’ve known for quite a while, and she’s definitely going down this really dark path due to the Virus. She would be the person people would least expect.. in my opinion anyway. I’m thinking either she’s gonna get rid of the virus, and still become Harley because she likes how it feels to be free, or maybe she will get rid of the virus and decide to go work at Arkham again. She’s already basically counseled Bruce and Barbara, so maybe she will go back and work as a psychiatrist. I don’t know, probably not.
Silver St. Cloud :)
Cons: 1. Silver’s favorite animal is a dolphin (Harley hates fish.. but maybe she just means eating fish)
2. She once went swimming with a dolphin. But the issue is Harley can’t swim
3. She has blonde hair, but instead of blue eyes, they’re brown.
4. She’s also her own character in the comics
Pros: 1. If they were to stick with the Joker being older than Harley, then she would fit best
2. Harley is known to have a crush on Bruce Wayne. Silver has feelings for Bruce, and their relationship is rocky now due to what all happened.
3. As far as we know Silver had good parents. But when her father died she became the ward of Theo Galavan. Harley’s father was a criminal that used to abuse her. Theo is technically her guardian, and he abuses her.. so I believe this can still apply.
4. She did everything Theo asked of her, because she was scared of him, and she didn’t want to be outcast from the family. So if she did everything she did out of fear, imagine what all she would do out of love.
5. She is very gullible
6. She is a master manipulator
7. Though she and Jerome haven’t met yet, she is still connected to the Joker Cult World, because she was working for Theo as was Jerome.
8. She can be incredibly loyal
9. She was pushed out of a window by Tabitha when they were trying to escape Theo.
10. She is a hopeless romantic
12. Jessica was talking about ‘The Sirens Club’ is gonna have new people join, but she couldn’t say much about it. I believe Silver is gonna come back, and she will be one of the new members.
13. Out of all the choices, she has the advantage point. We know Barbara owned an art gallery, and Lee is a doctor, but Silver is still young and doesn’t have a career yet. So if she does turn out to be Harley, she still has a chance to either be an intern or become a psychiatrist and meet Jerome the right way.
14. Silver isn’t a bad person, people hate her because she got between BatCat and because she manipulated Bruce. I just wanna remind everyone that the only reason she did those things was because Theo would have killed her or cast her out of the family. So she’s not all bad
15. “Am I Harley? *whispers* You’ll have to wait and see.” - Natalie Alyn Lind on IG live
16. She and Jerome both acted innocent at first, before they revealed their true nature
17. She always had to work for Theo, so we never really saw her have fun. We also didn’t see her crazy side yet, but once again that doesn’t mean we won’t. Especially now that she’s free from Theo. I can see this apply to her as well.
18. “Little Minx”
19. “You can’t even imagine the things I’ve done. There’s no hope. There’s no going back to normal life.”
20. Natalie and Cameron met at Vanity Fair and took some playful pictures together. One was of the two just smiling, and the other was them acting like she punched him. She captioned the pictures ‘ Jerome and Silver takeover’.
21. Natalie is gonna be 18 this June, so she will be of age (she can be with both Jerome and Ivy on the show legally) I have no clue what her age is on the show, but I would say around 15 or 16. Maybe even 17?
22. Silver was introduced the very next episode after Jerome’s death.
So Silver and Lee are sticking out to me the most. I honestly think Silver has the biggest advantage out of everyone else. Simply because we don’t know what happened to her after she and Tabitha escaped Theo. Tabitha came back.. so why didn’t Silver? I have a theory on this as well. Tabitha cared enough about Silver to save her from Theo, and she was always kind of protective of her. What if Tabitha sent Silver somewhere so she could be safe. For one to keep her safe from Theo, and two because Tabitha lives a sort of dangerous life. I honestly feel like she sent Silver somewhere that she could be safe and have a normal teenage life. But maybe something happens, and Silver comes back and is under Tabby’s care. If she was to come back, she would more than likely join the sirens. Considering she and Tabitha are family.. Jessica said a few more girls will be joining the Sirens, but she couldn’t talk much about it. We all know the original Sirens (in the comics) include Poison Ivy, Catwoman, and Harley Quinn. Well this would be the same case, but Babs and Tabs will be in it as well. Silver could be doing anything right now. She could be studying criminology (she definitely has the motive) or interning or anything. With Silver as Harley, they could do so much. Like, make her be studying criminology right now, to try and figure out why her uncle (her father figure) did what all he did. They can bring her back to Gotham and where she will be under Tabitha’s care, maybe join the sirens, or maybe even intern at Arkham where she meets Jerome, etc. They can do all of this.. the only thing that would be off would be her name. But maybe they can fix that. Also we all know Ivy and Harley end up having a romantic relationship. Ivy on the show is a 19 year old with the mind of a child still. I honestly have no clue how old the characters on the show are. I know Ivy is 19 (like I just said), and I think Jerome is 19, considering he was 18 when he died. Both Joker and Ivy are older than Harley I’m pretty sure. I think Silver is maybe 16 or 17? I’m honestly not sure, but I do know she’s younger than Jerome and Ivy. She would make the most sense in my opinion, either her or Lee.
(Sorry if there are a lot of mistakes, but I’ve been working on this so long and I honestly don’t feel like going back over it and fixing things. I hope you all can understand everything I’m trying to say lmao. Be sure to tell me your thoughts! Who do you think it will be? What do you think of this post? I love feedback, just please be respectful :)
The Soham Murders was a very widely publicized double murder of 2 young girls which occurred in Soham, Cambridgeshire, England, on 4 August 2002.
Holly Wells (left in pic above) and Jessica Chapman were 10 years old when they were murdered. The image of the 2 girls above was taken just an hour or so before they disappeared. At around 6pm they went to the shop to get some sweets, they were captured on CCTV passing Soham sports centre with their arms linked, at 6:13pm.
Police were already working on a lead before the girls’ bodies were found. The girls’ teacher assistant in school, Maxine Carr (25) (pictured 3rd above) had been talking to the media, showing them a card Holly had given her on the last day of term, she said “she was just a really lovely girl, just really lovely”. It wasn’t until after the interview was done that one of the producers said “wasn’t it weird how said she was a nice girl?” (this can be viewed here). Maxine’s abusive boyfriend Ian Huntley (28) (pictured 2nd above) had also been talking to the media, infact he was open about the fact he saw the girls on the day of their disappearance, he spoke to the media on various occasions (one of these times can be viewed here).
Police brought the 2 in for questioning & to give witness statements then let them go, shortly after this police searched Ian’s storage unit and found the burned remains of Holly and Jessica’s clothes (pictured above). Police arrested Ian and Maxine on suspicion of kidnap & murder. The girls’ bodies were found near RAF, Lakenheath in Suffolk in a ditch on 17th August 2002. The weather was very hot and because of that reason the girls’ bodies were quite badly decomposed and partially skelotinized, it was noted that their bodies were attempted to be burned. DNA and some jewellery on the bodies led to a positive identification it was the 2 girls. Their cause of death was never found out. What is known is that Ian had saw the girls walking by his house and invited them in to see Maxine, their teachers assistant, but she was’t there, she was really out of town visiting family. It’s unknown exactly what Ian did to the girls next, but we do know he killed them. It is said Ian came off an angry phone call with Maxine only minutes before the girls walked by his house. Ian came up with the bizarre story that the girls had came to his door, one with a nosebleed, and went to his bathroom to clean up, he claimed one fell into a bath of water, drowned and the other screamed and was “smothered in mid air”. Ian was sentenced to life in prison, Maxine was sentenced to 42 months in prison, she insists she knew nothing about the girls’ murders.