glad we could see him on sara's grave and talked to her

Marc Guggenheim Convo Round 2 (Spoilers)

You can read about my first conversation with Marc here.

I was wandering around the floor, looking for a present for my daughter, when I heard Marc was hosting another signing. So, I decided to swing by to say goodbye and thank him. Once again, there was no line and I was able to have a nice, long talk with him.

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Canary Song - Arrow 4x18 Fixit

Summary:  It’s a perfectly normal mission, until Sara stops at a specific grave. Fixit to Arrow 4x18 + Sara’s reaction.

This will contain Sara’s reaction, along with a fixit to the death. Obviously, spoilers for 4x18. I think we can all agree that she deserved better, and I ended up angry-writing a fixit where she goes to a place that deserves and appreciates her. Tagging people who liked my post under the cut (if you would like to be untagged please tell me!). 

Crossposted to AO3 and under the read more 

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The Death Pact

Rating: T

Summary: Felicity and Oliver have a talk about life and death. Missing scene from Arrow 4x05, Haunted. Set after Sara’s soul is returned but before Felicity and Oliver go to their respective office. Fluff and supportive significant others. And more fluff. I’m surprised the writers’ didn’t go down a similar route given the grave scene that will happen in five months now.

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Felicity toed off her shoes and stumbled to the couch, throwing her purse down next to her. Her eyes were as heavy as the first computers that required their own room they were so big. All Felicity wanted to do was sleep for days. Unfortunately, there were too many stairs between her and their bed.

Oliver sank down next to her on the couch, pulled her closer to him, and wrapped his arms around her. He let out a deep sigh. Felicity could only imagine how tired he was after his trip to the other side.

It hurt her brain thinking there even was an other side. Felicity set her arms down around Oliver’s and snuggled into him closer.

“That really happened?” Felicity asked. “You went…somewhere else and retrieved Sara’s soul?”

“Yeah. I’m just glad we didn’t have to take another trip to the island to get her.”

“Do you think she’s okay?”



“Felicity, I honestly don’t know.”

“I-uh,” Felicity started then stopped.


Felicity hesitated for a moment as she tried to organize her thoughts and put them into words.

“Don’t get me wrong,” Felicity said. “I’m so happy Sara’s back. I’m thrilled for Captain Lance and Laurel.”

“But?” Oliver asked.

“Sara was dead. For a year she was dead. We don’t know where she was. If she even existed. That has to have an effect on her. Don’t you think?”

“I would think so.”

Felicity held Oliver’s hands tighter. She didn’t envy Sara; from what Sara had been through to what Sara would have to continue to go through.

“If it had been up to you, would you have brought Sara back?” Felicity asked.

“After making that decision for Thea and seeing her deal, and continue to deal, with the ramifications of my choice, no. I wouldn’t have brought Sara back.”

“Thea said that Nyssa destroyed the pit.”

“That’s probably a good thing,” Oliver said. “I bet Malcolm wasn’t thrilled.”

“Even more reason to do it.”

The couple stayed silent, both in their own worlds, but together. Felicity struggled to realign her beliefs with the new evidence the day had brought her. She was curious about Sara’s death experience but doubted if there would ever be a time when it’d be appropriate to ask Sara about it.



“If you ever find another pit or something like it…”


“Promise me you won’t use it on me.”

Oliver became still and his hold around Felicity became tighter. Felicity ran her hands back and forth over his arms as she tried to soothe him. She gave him some time to process her request. After a full minute of silence, Felicity had to say more.

“I love my life, Oliver. Especially with you. But if it’s my time to go. It’s just, I’d rather you let me go than be brought back without a soul, killing people, and then force you to risk yourself traveling to the other side again to get my soul back.”

Oliver remained silent. His fingers threaded with hers and Felicity felt his lips against the back of her head.

“Would you want to go through all that?” Felicity asked.

“No,” Oliver said. His voice was rough and low and he kept his lips on Felicity’s head.

“So I’ll promise I won’t bring you back to life if you promise me the same.”

“Fine,” Oliver finally answered. “But you’re not dying before me.”

“I think that’s unfair. I already lost you once. Why do I have to do it again?”

Felicity tried to keep her tone light and shift the conversation to a more benign topic. She could tell Oliver’s thoughts were leaning towards his darker side and Felicity didn’t want to hurt him.

“Felicity, I can’t lose you. I just…I can’t.”

“Okay, then we’ll have to make a pact.”

“A pact?” Oliver asked. Felicity could almost hear his eyebrows as they shot up.

“Yep,” Felicity said. “We have to agree to die when we’re really old, together. Preferably in bed. I mean in our sleep. The Notebook style.”

“You want to make a pact that we’ll die together?”

“Well, not a suicide-murder pact. Just dying of old age together pact.”

“That sounds…perfect.”


Felicity turned around in Oliver’s arms and sealed the pact with a kiss. Just as Oliver’s hand wandered over to Felicity’s ass, her phone began to ring. They both sighed into each other’s mouths. Felicity turned back around and dug her phone out of her purse. She missed the call from Curtis, but two seconds later he sent a text asking her to come to the office.

“Sorry,” Felicity said. “I have to go see what Curtis needs.”

“I should practice for my interview,” Oliver said. Felicity noticed his glance upstairs and how distracted he seemed.

“You okay?”

“I’m fine.”

“I’m going to go change and then head out.”


“Yeah?” Felicity asked at the bottom of the stairs.

“I love you.”

“I love you, too,” Felicity said with a smile. She jogged up the stairs and realized for the millionth time how lucky she was to be with Oliver.

Trying to make sense of nonsense

So it’s been over a week since Arrow killed off Laurel Lance, the Black Canary, and despite reblogging a lot of posts and voicing my annoyance, it has been difficult for me to actually write a coherent piece trying to make sense out of this nonsense.

 It’s hard for me to decide what annoys me the most about the whole Laurel death. Is it the fact that she was not given a hero’s death despite Guggenheim talking about it being earned?, or the fact that on her death bed she is shipping 0l1c1+y?, or maybe it is the fact that Katie only finds out about her character getting killed off when they are shooting episode 16?, or Marc’s attempts to reduce our outrage to Lauriver shipping and asserting that her story reached a creative plateau?, or how about the fact that her only storyline this year was resurrecting Sara, which almost undid her character growth?. 

Actually, I think my anger stems from the fact that these writers have consistently treated the actress and character with disrespect from the very beginning, so it is not surprising that her death reflected that. Someone wrote a post on the many deaths of Laurel criticizing the writer’s spin on the GA/BC romance. While I do not appreciate the bashing of Arrow’s Black Canary, I have to admit that turning the second most iconic female Justice Leaguer into the civilian love interest was one of the biggest injustices done to the character, especially when they decided to add sister swapping into the mix. Then the audience said there was no chemistry so her character got penalized by becoming an alcoholic and drug addict while Oliver’s mistake got excused and justified by the writers. Suddenly, she was blamed for Oliver cheating on her with Sara because Laurel called the cops on Sara, who was framed as his female counterpart in every way. 

By the time the show got around to making her Black Canary, Marc is liking comments calling Felicity the female lead (she will never be in my eyes), 0l1c1+y is the primary focus of the show, she is  being given the Canary Cry on The Flash but it is never explained on Arrow, and pivotal scenes that would have shown her growth in Team Arrow end up on the cutting room floor. I hoped her exclusion would end after season 3 but I was wrong. 

 TPTB had promised Laurel fans that they will be happy in season 3 so at least we were not duped in Season 4 but the disrespect given to her this year started before that stupid grave scene. There was the controversial board  that had every cast member but Katie’s, the constant shilling of OTA and 0l1c1+y, and the writers reblogging fan art excluding her. So with the lack of a storyline for her except Sara’s resurrection,  five minutes of screen time, her glaring absence in the Flash crossover, not getting a mention in Mericle’s interviews. I started being afraid that she could be in the grave. Still I hoped they wouldn’t be so stupid.

As much as I hate the paps who leaked it, I am glad they revealed the death ahead of time so I stopped watching the show. I probably would have been angrier than I am right now. Did the Black Canary really have to die as a punishment for her father betraying Damien Dhark, instead of dying protecting someone?. Was it necessary to have her last words be about her being a defeated or failed love interest, instead of her growth as a character?. What is Guggenheim even talking about when he says her story had plateaued and that they had to pay off the grave scene in the first episode?. This is a character with years of history in the comic books. Even though it was obvious that she was no longer going to be the love interest, there were many directions her character could go. She was yet to have a personal villain so giving her one would have been a good way to show her character growth and add more “pop” than death. They could have explored the contradictions of working inside and outside the law. With a villain as a mayor, we could have seen her rethink her career path, and whether she preferred vigilante justice even if it meant her leaving her friends and family behind. I mean, we saw her connect with Nyssa and will see her with Vixen, so why not have her leave town and work with them. Hell, an organic canary cry might have created story lines for her since she would have had to learn to control her powers and exercise restraint. Come to think of it, her tech Canary Cry could have had her dealing with the control of her “powers”, and when to use restraint. The excuse that they have reached a creative plateau just does not make sense at all.

Why the show needed a death to revitalize interest in the show is beyond me. They said they were going for a lighter season so why kill someone off. This problem is not just limited to Arrow but seems to be an irritating trend in television these days. I don’t know if it is because of Game of Thrones or Walking Dead but apparently the death of a character has become an alternative to character development. I believe an article cited five character deaths in the same week, all of them women, including Abbie Mills, the lead character of Sleepy Hollow (there is no way the show is escaping cancellation). Character deaths may seem edgy and bring the sense of stakes but when done as a gimmick or handled poorly, you get absurdities like the death of Laurel Lance. Guggenheim’s interviews have shown that it was done for shock value, and probably because he assumed she was the least popular so there will be minimal backlash. He didn’t count on the fact that viewers were warming up to her, or that we will see through him. If there is anything I have liked about the death is the backlash the show is receiving for this stunt. The episode got low ratings, a lot of viewers were pissed off and are contemplating dropping the show. Critics panned the death scene, even those who seemed to be anti-Laurel. Given how TPTB sabotaged the character from the start, I am not surprised her death was also handled with minimal care for the character, the actress and her fans. I am just happy that people are finally realizing what has always been a writing problem.

A lot of fans blamed Katie for Laurel’s lack of popularity, calling her a bad actress or a bad person that is difficult to work with. While there might be truth to Katie not being the writer’s choice, everything I see from her tells me she is a professional and classy person who does well with what she has been given, and tries to exude positivity even though it must be demoralizing to sign up to be lead actress, only to have everything taken from her. On the other hand, Guggenheim and the other writers have shown little professionalism and class. Ask a question about Laurel on Tumblr, and he either turns it into a shipping question or makes a comment that can potentially instigate fandom wars. Then he uses Katie’s classy tweet to wag his fingers at her fans. He claims to never take story ideas from the internet but 0verw@tch, the Fern video, and the Quentin and Donna relationship easily refute his claims. Writers calling people bozos for not liking 0l1c1+y, and making Laurel’s death about Felicity, despite the two spending little time together tell me that they are unprofessional and tone deaf so it is not surprising it shows in the writing. Despite viewers citing season 3 as the beginning of the decline in quality, Slade’s motivation and Moira’s mayoral candidacy are but two examples of the decline beginning in season 2. It is no wonder poor writing has become the norm in season 4.

Some people have tried to oppose Laurel fans for voicing our displeasure, with Stephen telling us we are making a mistake for quitting the show but truth be told, we Laurel fans have been suffering since the show started, and despite being excited when she became Black Canary, “disappointed but not surprised” soon became a common sentiment in our side of the fandom. There really is not much to keep us as viewers. The  writing has declined, Marc’s attitude is off-putting, they could barely respect the Black Canary when alive or on her death bed, so why should anyone expect her to be treated with respect when she is in the grave, and the people who screamed OTA also called for her death so seeing OTA will always leave a bad taste in my mouth. I guess I should be happy Black Siren is on the table but I need to see how she is handled on The Flash first. Last year, she was handled so well that a reviewer was forced to rethink their opinion on Katie’s acting. The way she is handled there will inform my watching of her subsequent appearances in the Legends of Flarrowverse. That said, I can’t see myself watching Arrow whether they bring Laurel back or not. I hope the people who declared they were done actually put their money where their mouth is. Maybe the show’s loss of viewers and ratings will make TPTB rethink the way they treat an actress, her characters and her fans.

Heroism (Oliver/Felicity; G)

Summary: Set after 3x05. Sometimes, Felicity needs to be reminded that she’s a hero, too. After spending the day with her mother, Felicity contemplates what Oliver said to her. With a helpful nudge in the right direction from Laurel, she ends up finding comfort in the unlikeliest of places - the bottom of a shot-glass filled with vodka - with Oliver himself. On his bed, no less.

Ships: Oliver/Felicity, Felicity & Donna, Laurel & Felicity, Felicity & Sara, Felicity/Cooper

A/N: There are a few nods to Arrow Season 2.5 here, specifically issue #16. It’s not hugely spoilery, though, and you definitely don’t need to read it to understand this story.

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Starling City Airport was busy in spite of the late hour, with people milling about laden with luggage, some saying their farewells to loved ones and others checking watches and waiting at arrivals. It was nearing ten o'clock when two blonde women hurried inside.

“Well, I guess this is goodbye,” said Donna Smoak. Felicity nodded, smiling at her mother and trying to swallow the lump that had unexpectedly formed in her throat. “Thanks for dropping me off, sweetie.”

“It’s fine,” Felicity replied quickly. “Just call me when you land, okay?”

To Felicity’s relief, Donna pretended to ignore the way her daughter’s voice trembled for a moment and instead enveloped her into a warm Chanel-smelling hug.

“And Mom?” she said, when her mother had released her. “I’m sorry about… Cooper, and you know, everything that happened. Your first trip to Starling since forever and we both got kidnapped – it’s probably not exactly the vacation you expected.”

“Considering how you got us out of there and saved our lives, Felicity, it sounds like it’s just another day at the office for you,” Donna said, in that gently knowing way of hers that made Felicity wonder if her mother knew more than she was letting on. If she did, Felicity thought, she was being surprisingly chill about it. “You saved our lives.” 

The sinking feeling in her stomach lessened just a little when her mother said that. “Not without help.” 

But Donna shook her head. “You don’t need to apologise, Felicity, and you definitely don’t have to worry about me. I’m fine. In fact, I’m more than fine. I got to spend the day with my daughter, and I got to see the life you’ve built here. It seems to be a good one, and I promise you, nothing could make me happier.”

Felicity gave her mother a watery smile. “Thank you,” she murmured. “Now go on. You’re going to be late.”

Donna leaned forward and kissed her daughter’s cheek. “I love you, sweetheart.”

“Love you too, Mom,” said Felicity, giving her one final hug. 

“By the way,” said Donna, as she got ready to wheel her suitcase, “I know you don’t like me interfering with your love life, but I really think you should hold on to him.”

“Mom, I already told you, Ray and I aren’t together,” Felicity said patiently.

Donna tapped her nose. “Who said I was talking about Ray?”

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