mrsjadecurtiss  asked:

What do you mean about a timeskip in winds of winter? :0 you said it won't happen, but in what shape would it have been there? I've still put off reading the new Chapters, but this matter sounds worrisome (feel free to talk about spoilers tho, i dont mind)

When GRRM was originally working on ASOIAF, he wanted it to be an (in-story) years-long adventure, where the characters would start out as children but by the last book they’d be adults. (At the time, the story was conceived as a trilogy – A Game of Thrones, A Dance with Dragons, The Winds of Winter.) But not only did the story get bigger as he wrote it, but everything happened so quickly – instead of AGOT taking years, with months-long gaps between each chapter, most chapters take place very soon after each other and the whole book is just over a year, at most. A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords also move quickly with even fewer timejumps between chapters, everything happening during a year at most together. So for example, Arya’s 9 in AGOT and by the end of ASOS she’s 11.

Therefore, to catch up with his original idea, that the younger characters would be adults by the end of the series, GRRM planned a timeskip, a five year gap. A Dance with Dragons (now planned to be book #4) would have started five years after the end of ASOS. That’s why so many storylines conclude in ASOS and why so many mysteries are resolved (Jon Arryn’s murder, the murder attempt on Bran, etc) and why so many characters are in a place where you can see their future has so many possibilities albeit on one specific track. Like, Jon’s elected Lord Commander, Dany chooses to stay as queen in Meereen, Tyrion’s killed his father and is off to Essos, Arya’s off to Braavos using her Faceless Men coin, Bran and company have made it through the Wall with a guide to take them to the three-eyed crow, Sansa’s at the Eyrie with Lord Protector Littlefinger having killed Lysa, Brienne’s off to find Sansa and Arya, Jaime and Cersei are in charge of King’s Landing after Tywin’s death, Euron has taken the Seastone Chair, etc.

And ADWD was supposed to begin 5 years after that, with all that had happened in those 5 years maybe occasionally shown as flashbacks after the first new status quo chapter. Jon and Dany and Cersei would have been entirely sick of ruling, with all the trouble that comes with it. Tyrion (probably) would be a slave in Meereen. Brienne (probably) would be wandering the Riverlands, jaded and wounded. Theon would be Reek, having spent years in the dungeons of the Dreadfort. Bran, 14, would be deep in his lessons with the Last Greenseer, having gained all kinds of power and knowledge. Sansa, 18, would have spent years learning the game under Littlefinger’s tutelage as Alayne, ready to work on the next part of his plan. And Arya, 16, was supposed to begin ADWD with “Mercy”, in which she’s someone else entirely, a cold faceless assassin actress who uses seduction to entice a man and kill him (while snapping back to being Arya while she does so), before returning to this not-Arya self. Later chapters might explain exactly how Arya got to this, but the point was this post-five-year-gap chapter was supposed to shock the reader with how much she’d changed, what she’d become.

However, GRRM ran into trouble writing ADWD – not the least that this “endless flashbacks” structure became incredibly unwieldy with very forced and complicated writing. Parts of the story moved too quickly time-wise, with Dorne needing to respond to Oberyn’s death immediately, not five years later. The Ironborn storyline also needed to happen right away. Other problems involved some characters having done basically nothing for five years while other characters had done a ton of things in the same time period. And the big question of the main ice-and-fire plot, why exactly have the Others decided to wait doing nothing for five years, when they were so active (with the attack on the Fist of the First Men, etc) just before, why are they finally starting to move again just when everything else is also finally happening. It was just very contrived and GRRM was more and more uncomfortable and frustrated with it as he wrote.

So a few (our world) years into writing this uncomfortable and frustrating project, GRRM decided to throw out and rewrite tons of material. There would be no five year gap, everything would happen real-time as it had in AGOT-ASOS, and all these “training sessions” and roadtrips and ruling difficulties would be shown on page. The problem of the kids being so young would just be dealt with, and “if a twelve-year-old has to conquer the world, then so be it.” The book was split into two, A Feast for Crows mostly dealing with southern Westeros, King’s Landing and Dorne and the Iron Islands, and A Dance with Dragons mostly dealing with the North and Essos. (The new ADWD ran into its own writing slowdown problems mostly because of “the Meereenese Knot”, figuring out the order of Dany’s many visitors, but at least there was no flashback structure anymore to deal with.) And notably, in-world the story still moves with few gaps time-wise, taking place over less than a year. (It’s “January” 300 AC at the start of AFFC, “August” at most by the end of ADWD.)

But then GRRM released his TWOW preview chapters… and “Mercy” is still “Mercy”, even though Arya’s only 11, not 16. It was significantly revised, he said, very different from how it looked when it was Arya’s first post-five-year-gap chapter, revisions that happened because of the removal of the timeskip… but there’s still a lot of extremely uncomfortable sexual elements in it, IMO. And I shudder to think at what it might have looked like back when Arya was a Westeros legal adult. Or for that matter Sansa being 18 in her post-ASOS storyline; while it might have made some relationships more palatable, I hesitate to think about what GRRM might do, because GRRM. Although the fact he’s said he’s not going to change his plans that much despite the kid characters being so young still… well… well… we’ll see, I guess.

Hope that helps! And if you’re interested, you can see more discussion of the five-year gap that never happened under this tag (including many links to GRRM quotes on the subject), and my specific reactions to “Mercy” here.

anonymous asked:

Hi! There's one thing I'm wondering: if Rhaegar was such an obvious failure all around, how is that possible that he is almost universally admired? Yandel in TWoIaF (the Baratheon propaganda book) can't bring himself speak wholly badly of him. Manderly and Lord Borrell make fun of Rhaegar Frey, indicating that he is unworthy of his name. ("Rhaegar, he named himself. I almost laughed right in his face." and "That smirking worm who wears a dragon's name.") I don't buy it's just his good looks.

Don’t underestimate the power of good looks. Nobody’s going to say outright “it’s because he’s handsome”; the bias is less conscious than that. (Same thing goes for height - people just sort of assume tall = authoritative.) Beauty = goodness is a powerful and insidious attitude. And particularly where the central failure involves a disastrous affair/apparent kidnapping, it’s easier to romanticise a good-looking man’s mistakes. Of course it was a romance, of course Lyanna ran off with him, he’s so handsome, what woman wouldn’t? If Rhaegar wasn’t conventionally attractive, dollars to doughnuts you would see more people in-universe finding his actions re: Lyanna suspect.

Aside from that, Rhaegar being a political failure doesn’t mean he couldn’t be charming, wasn’t martially talented, and wasn’t well-educated. I can see why Rhaegar’s peers thought well of him and believed he might make a far better king than Aerys. Most of said peers are also going to be less sympathetic to Elia, Lyanna, and Rhaella than the readers, and have less information about all the things Rhaegar wasn’t doing.

It’s also worth noting that Rhaegar is admired in defeat, now that nobody actually has to deal with him, most of the people he hurt worst not long outliving him, and the effects of his failures confined by the success of the Rebellion.

So Easy To Love

AO3 or FFN

1k, Arya Stark/Gendry Waters, T-rating

Summary: (Canon AU.) She misses Gendry’s complaining, too enthralled with staring. “You smell like Dennett’s underarms,” Arya murmurs, leaning in, going for blunt honesty. Gendry opens his mouth, beginning to laugh, turning uproarious and smiling. She’s never seen anything more beautiful than this. More kissable than Gendry’s mouth.

anonymous asked:

Hey Turtle! Could you explain why Aerys called for Robert's head as well as Ned's after he'd murdered Rickard and Brandon? Is it as simple as Lyanna being betrothed to him? I don't remember clearly but I sort of got the impression that Aerys was rather fond of his Baratheon cousin Steffon. Thanks.

Sheer paranoia. Lyanna’s brother called for Rhaegar’s head -> Lyanna’s other brother and her betrothed are probably also plotting against Rhaegar! How dare they! Off with their heads!

ok but you can’t tell me that George went from

“Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon’s true parentage is finally revealed in the last book.”


“Daenerys and Jon’s passion will continue until the secret of Jon’s true parentage is finally revealed and will torment them.”

GoT Afterlife

imagine Oberyn chasing Rhaegar in the afterlife. “Elia Martell, say her name, you cheated on her, you divorced her, YOU DELEGITIMIZED HER CHILDREN! “

To those who say Jonerys will never happen in the books, just a quick reminder Dany has been dreaming of him, even if she has not seen his face yet…

Lying abed in her narrow bunk, she found herself wondering how it would be to have a man squeezed in beside her in place of her handmaid, and the thought was more exciting than it should have been. Sometimes she would close her eyes and dream of him, but it was never Jorah Mormont she dreamed of; her lover was always younger and more comely, though his face remained a shifting shadow.

Daenerys, ACOK

He was who he was; Jon Snow, bastard and oathbreaker, motherless, friendless, and damned. For the rest of his life –however long that might be– he would be condemned to be an outsider, the silent man standing in the shadows who dares not speak his true name


The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain.

Melisandre, ADWD

Jon’s face and presence is often referred to as being in the shadows, he’s always been the outsider, watching the Stark children play and even if he did play himself sometimes, he tried his best to avoid irritate Lady Stark, so he kept it to himself, as the bastard he was pained to be. 

Melisandre’s visions of him, from R’hllor himself is described as Jon’s shadow hidden…It’s not SO subtle how he’s always referred to be hidden there. 

A quick reminded that when he died, she listened to Ghost’s cries…from across THE NARROW SEA…

“Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold … “


“Off in the distance, a wolf howledThe sound made her feel sad and lonely, but no less hungry. As the moon rose above the grasslands, Dany slipped at last into a restless sleep.“

Daenerys, ADWD

These chapters happen at the same time, how can Daenerys Targaryen, in Meeren, listen to Jon’s murder at the Wall, North of Westeros, if not for the bond they have…without ever meeting. Call it soulmates, fate, whatever you want. Martin does not use words he does not think necessary nor he adds information that the story does not need. If you ever read one his books, you’ll know he’s sharp and everything means something, even the puzzles and riddles thrown our way. Daenerys heard his soul, Ghost’s cries (perhaps his own, warg ones), and she felt sad over it, not even knowing why.

A reminder that when Dany was at the House of the Undying, she only saw important, relevant things. Not only to herself, but to the realm: the rape of Westeros, The Red Wedding, the madness of Aerys Targaryen demanding to burn Kings Landing, Rhaegar and Elia talking of Aegon and his promised song, the fake dragon (Faegon, am I right?), Hardhome, what her son’s future would have been like, White Walkers, Rhaegar’s murmuring a woman’s name right before he died (we all assume is Lyanna’s, I guess we’ll find out eventually), and there are others, but to me it means a lot that one of these visions is:

a blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice, filling the air with sweetness.

Daenerys, ACOK

Oh, she also sees the red door of the house she loved and she remembers growing up, and she believed it was in Braavos. She only had important sights for the realm and herself, yet she sees a blue flower growing at the wall (if you don’t think this means Jon Snow growing at the Wall, we can’t be friends and you can’t even read this, bye! JK haha…but come on, Lyanna is said to have loved winter roses, which are blue…the same ones that composed the crown Rhaegar Targaryen crowned her with, as The Queen of Love and Beauty at the Tourney of Harrenhal. Jon lives, works, serves at the Wall, it doesn’t get any more obvious than this, y’all…only if Martin wrote she saw a ‘hot northmen with gorgeous hair at Castle Black, really…”). 

(whoever did this second gif, thank you so very much, this is beautiful <3)

So not only does this shows how important Jon is to the realm (remember how her visions are all important, not only to her but also to Westeros? *inserts my theory of them both being AA* But he’s also important to her, the flower is not just THERE, it also fills the air with sweetness, it pleases her. Do I need to say more? 

This one is very meaningful if not very telling, to me. They both feel alone, like something is missing. One can even say “they feel alone cause they are alone”, but they were not. It almost feels like there is someone out there, a better match. 

Beneath her coverlets she tossed and turned, dreaming that Hizdahr was kissing her … but his lips were blue and bruised, and when he thrust himself inside her, his manhood was cold as ice. She sat up with her hair disheveled and the bedclothes atangle. Her captain slept beside her, yet she was alone.

Daenerys, ADWD

Jon wondered where Ghost was now. Had he gone to Castle Black, or was he was running with some wolfpack in the woods? He had no sense of the direwolf, not even in his dreams. It made him feel as if part of himself had been cut off. Even with Ygritte sleeping beside him, he felt alone.


their story is a never ending parallel.

Not to disrespect Ygritte, cause I think she was necessary to Jon’s growth. She was a great character and I do believe Jon loved her, at some point. But just like Daenerys, this love was not a choice, it was almost like a survival choice, they made the best out of a bad situation. 

He had to be with Ygritte, or Mance would have killed him, he would not believe Jon had really deserted the Night’s Watch. Ygritte wasn’t Jon’s act of rebellion, like I once read at a meta, no, she was, at first, his sacrifice/way to fill his mission. But somewhere along the way, he fell in love with her, she was strong, funny, and she awoke the sexuality in him. Again, he had to be with her, to prove himself, but it also wasn’t like he didn’t like it. 

Daenerys loved Khal Drogo? Yeah, but it was as forced as was Jon and Ygritte. One can say it was even worse for she did not go willing, she was pushed into it, sold like a slave, to get her brother an army (we do have to thank karma cause his army never came, boo-ya, sucker!). She was given to a stranger, a savage (comparing to her culture; it’s funny even to see the parallel here, both had to be with people that are considered savages, wildlings where they come from) in return of an army, and she made the best of her situation, she learnt his language, his manners, bore his child (even if the baby never came to live), she fell in love with him cause for the first time in a very long time (or forever?), she was treated with care and love (the way Drogo knew how to love) by the man in her life. 

A sweet reminder of how Daenerys thinks of her family and how she would have married Rhaegar’s son, had he lived. Rhaegar’s son, who’s Jon’s daddy again? 

Plus, we’ve seen on the show that Jon was named Aegon Targaryen too, we do not know if he will have the same name on the books but I honestly do not think they would change something so important. 

So, just another beautiful “easter egg” to ya:

Five Aegons had ruled the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. 

There would have been a sixth, but the Usurper’s dogs had murdered her brother’s son when he was still a babe at the breast. If he had lived, I might have married him. “

Daenerys, ADWD

Who says you still won’t, sweetie? Hold on, Melisandre will bring him back or he was warging Ghost, let’s just wait a bit longer, okay? 

Their journey is a never ending parallel, and their path is clearly to each other.

I don’t think the history is called ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ without a cause, Jon may be blood of the dragon, but he’s also a Stark, and Daenerys is a Targaryen through and through…

*the lord of light aka george r.r. martin speaks through melisandre*

I’m back to reading the books and even if I’m still at AGOT, I just felt like making this, had a really bad day and making this made it a little better. 

What are your thoughts? <3