forged of steel and wife to fire

anonymous asked:

I don't quite see why everyone thinks Dany is going to have to be the new Nissa Nissa. Obviously, stabbing her didn't kill off all the WWs so I'm not quite sure how it would work now. Or maybe I just don't want Jon to have to kill Dany because I don't find that to be "bittersweet" at all.

Anon you have asked about one of my most hated theories. I don’t believe Dany will be any Nissa Nissa figure. I don’t believe any of the main female characters will take on a Nissa Nissa role and here is why.

We are told the tale of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa. Here are the relevant quotes:

Do you know the tale of the forging of Lightbringer? I shall tell it to you. It was a time when darkness lay heavy on the world. To oppose it, the hero must have a hero’s blade, oh, like none that had ever been. And so for thirty days and thirty nights Azor Ahai labored sleepless in the temple, forging a blade in the sacred fires. Heat and hammer and fold, heat and hammer and fold, oh, yes, until the sword was done. Yet when he plunged it into water to temper the steel it burst asunder.
“Being a hero, it was not for him to shrug and go in search of excellent grapes such as these, so again he began. The second time it took him fifty days and fifty nights, and this sword seemed even finer than the first. Azor Ahai captured a lion, to temper the blade by plunging it through the beast’s red heart, but once more the steel shattered and split. Great was his woe and great was his sorrow then, for he knew what he must do.
“A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.

“I looked at that book Maester Aemon left me. The Jade Compendium. The pages that told of Azor Ahai. Lightbringer was his sword. Tempered with his wife’s blood if Votar can be believed. Thereafter Lightbringer was never cold to the touch, but warm as Nissa Nissa had been warm. In battle the blade burned fiery hot.”

Azor Ahai sacrificed Nissa Nissa to forge Lightbringer. Lightbringer has already been forged. There is no need for Azor Ahai Reborn to make another sacrifice to forge a sword that already exists. Aside from this, as @nobodysuspectsthebutterfly has said before, there is another way to make a sword burn fiery hot, and we’ve already seen it in the books. Beric Dondarrion has a flaming sword and unlike the one Stannis wields, Beric’s burns fiery hot in battle. Beric died and was resurrected by R’hllor and it was through this resurrection that he gained the ability to make his sword burn hot with his blood.

If Jon is Azor Ahai as suggested in Melisandre’s chapter then he won’t need to sacrifice somebody he loves to forge a weapon. Perhaps Jon is the sacrifice needed because by dying and being reborn (resurrected), it seems quite likely he will have the same ability as Beric had, in which case nobody will need to die for him to produce a blade with Lightbringer’s characteristics to use as a weapon against the Others.

“The Lord brought you back. He brought me back. No one else. Just us,” says Beric Dondarrion to Jon Snow.

And then Sandor Clegane steps into the frame. 

Brother Ray thought he’d been dead for days, the way he was stinking and had bugs all over. But he was alive. I think he was dead, but the Lord of Light brought him back and sent him to Brother Ray.

The Lord of Light wants Sandor Clegane alive.

I think he gave Thoros the power to bring back Beric, so together they can act as some kind of spiritual guide for Sandor Clegane. I think Thoros died saving Sandor from the firebear because he has a decent idea of what’s going on and that if you keep Sandor alive, you save the world.

I’m pretty sure he brought back Jon Snow not because he’s the Prince Who Was Promised but because he needed him to retake Winterfell so Sansa wouldn’t be destroyed by Ramsay Bolton. 

And why does Sansa Stark matter?

Because–and I say this with the straightest of faces, although you are welcome to laugh–I think Sandor has to make Sansa come to forge Lightbringer, i.e. Sandor to Sansa as Azor Ahai is to Nissa Nissa. I think the Lightbringer prophecy has been misunderstood. Forging the sword in the heart of a beloved wife is a metaphor for love and sex and marriage and all that. When Sandor finally makes Sansa come ( “I’ll have a song from you someday”), something happens to tip the balance back to the light. It may well be that a magic sword literally bursts into flame but who knows? It could just be that Sandor is pivotal in some small way in some larger battle somewhere. It could be that he, as a person, is the sword in the darkness, just as the men of Night’s Watch vow to be in their oath.

In short, I think GRRM is going full cosmic soulmates with #sansan. 

“Let it be known that Sandor and Sansa are one heart, one flesh, one soul. Cursed be he who would seek to tear them asunder.” 

God or gods saw Sandor cloaking the bride and bringing her under his protection that one time and god or gods took that shit seriously. 

I think what we experienced as slightly creepy underage-girl stalking in seasons one and two was Sandor Clegane taking one look at Sansa and saying, “Hey that’s my wife,” except the timing was terribly wrong for multiple reasons (she was too young and too innocent, not to mention already property of the King to whom he was Kingsguard), plus the fact that Sandor was a drunk-ass PTSD-suffering crazy man. He was basically right that he should have taken her and he should have fucked her (bloody), but he wasn’t yet worthy so couldn’t and didn’t.

In “The Broken Man,” Sandor asks why the gods haven’t punished him, and Brother Ray says “They have,” and then a fucking bird chirps. The gods knew that Sandor failing to protect Sansa from the likes of Joffrey, Littlefinger and above all Ramsay was the worst thing they could do to him. He’ll have to live with her unnecessary torture and suffering for the rest of his life. The gods are cunts etc etc.

“A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa,’ he said to her, for that was her name, 'bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.”

/end tinfoil

anonymous asked:

what are the chances of a NissaNissa sacrifice at the end of the series?

Not likely.

Now, honestly, I can see the appeal of this theory, especially in regards to a shipping mindset. Someone sacrificing the person they love most to save the world is a tragedy on level with Romeo and Juliet, and for the shippers who really love their angst (and trust me, I’m one of them), it’s both a dream and a nightmare come true at once.

I have no problem with people liking this theory, writing fan-fiction and headcanons centered around it, etc. However, after a time, people started insisting that it had to happen.

Is there evidence for this theory? Of a sort, I suppose. Here’s the original tale, told by Salladhor Saan.

“A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa,’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.”

So, Azor Ahai sacrifices his beloved wife in an effort to create a sword that will save the world from the Long Night. We know that, in the last book, there will have to be some sort of sacrifice to save the world, so why not one like this?

However, the most popular version of this theory has Jon playing the part of Azor Ahai, and Daenerys as Nissa Nissa.

That’s where it begins to fall apart.

  • Thousands upon thousands of people are going to die in the Battle for the Dawn.
    • If there needs to be a sacrifice, it seems to me that this one would be enough. The original story narrows it down to two people, but it’s quite possible that they’re both just metaphors for something much larger. Nissa Nissa could symbolize those that give their lives fighting the darkness, those that fall against the army of the dead. Even the worst of people can be heroes against monsters such as the Others, after all.
    • This would make Azor Ahai the survivors; the people who have to deal with the loss, the pain, and the destruction that the Long Night brought, and who have to move on and rebuild the world.
  • Lightbringer has already been tempered, and dragons have already been woken.
    • There are only two reasons for a Nissa Nissa sacrifice. Firstly, the heroes will need Lightbringer in the Battle for the Dawn. As stated above, Lightbringer has already been tempered by the original Azor Ahai. Now, finding the real Lightbringer is an entirely different matter, but I doubt that will need a human sacrifice.
    • The second reason is to wake dragons to use against the Others. And that already happened. Which brings us to the next point:
  • There’s already been one Nissa Nissa sacrifice in the series.
    • Daenerys’ and Drogo’s relationship, while extremely problematic, wasn’t in the book for nothing. Daenerys did love Drogo, and after his death, she used him as her Nissa Nissa.
    • Plus, there are a lot of parallels between her walking into the fire and Azor Ahai stabbing Nissa Nissa.

She heard a crack, the sound of shattering stone.

(…)

Only death can pay for life.

(…)

And there came a second crack, loud and sharp as thunder, and the smoke stirred and whirled around her and the pyre shifted, the logs exploding as the fire touched their secret hearts. She heard the screams of frightened horses, and the voices of the Dothraki raised in shouts of fear and terror, and Ser Jorah calling her name and cursing. No, she wanted to shout to him, no, my good knight, do not fear for me. The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don’t you see? Don’t you SEE? With a belch of flame and smoke that reached thirty feet into the sky, the pyre collapsed and came down around her. Unafraid, Dany stepped forward into the firestorm, calling to her children

The third crack was as loud and sharp as the breaking of the world.

When the fire died at last and the ground became cool enough to walk upon, Ser Jorah Mormont found her amidst the ashes, surrounded by blackened logs and bits of glowing ember and the burnt bones of man and woman and stallion. She was naked, covered with soot, her clothes turned to ash, her beautiful hair all crisped away … yet she was unhurt.

(…)

As Daenerys Targaryen rose to her feet, her black hissed, pale smoke venting from its mouth and nostrils. The other two pulled away from her breasts and added their voices to the call, translucent wings unfolding and stirring the air, and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons. (Daenerys X, AGOT)

    • Please note that Nissa Nissa’s “cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon”, and that it took three attempts to forge Lightbringer. Daenerys hears three cracks as she walks into the flames.
    • So, if Drogo was Nissa Nissa, that would mean …
  • Daenerys is Azor Ahai.
    • GASP.
    • This is why is irks me so much that almost every version of this theory has Dany sacrificing herself. It’s widely accepted that Jon is the Prince that was Promised, but everyone seems to be on the fence as to whether or not Daenerys is Azor Ahai.
    • ???
    • ??????????????
    • No way does Daenerys transition from being the heroine to being the love interest/sacrifice. That’s not how it goes. ASOIAF may have some tragic elements, but it doesn’t go out of its way to shock its audience.
    • I mean, if anyone’s getting stabbed (which they’re not), it’s probably going to be Jon. He does have experience in that field, after all.

There’s also the very likely possibility that all three heads of the dragons (Jon, Daenerys, and Tyrion) will die by the end of the series. If that’s the case, they’ll most likely go out together, fighting against the Others. In that case, I suppose you could consider all three of them Nissa Nissa.

So, in summary, it’s not all that likely that there will be a Nissa Nissa sacrifice at the end of the series. At least, not in the sense that most people think.

8

asoiaf meme: [3 /3] legends || The Legend of Lightbringer

It was a time when darkness lay heavy on the world. To oppose it, the hero must have a hero’s blade, oh, like none that had ever been. And so for thirty days and thirty nights Azor Ahai labored sleepless in the temple, forging a blade in the sacred fires. Heat and hammer and fold, heat and hammer and fold, oh, yes, until the sword was done. Yet when he plunged it into water to temper the steel it burst asunder.
Being a hero, it was not for him to shrug and go in search of excellent grapes such as these, so again he began. The second time it took him fifty days and fifty nights, and this sword seemed even finer than the first. Azor Ahai captured a lion, to temper the blade by plunging it through the beast’s red heart, but once more the steel shattered and split. Great was his woe and great was his sorrow then, for he knew what he must do.
A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.

IKKEYASU ANGST HEADCANONS

for the ship that never should have been but here I am anyway

  • Their relationship as a whole is a lighthearted rivalry/companionship and they kind of fall into a messy friends/rivals with benefits sort of situation
  • Nekomata was the one to do all the teasing leading up to the push but Ukai was the one to act on it
  • Nekomata tugs and tugs until Ukai cracks and recoils and frankly it’s addicting, the thrill Nekomata gets when Ukai turns the entirety of his focus on him, all that fire, all that steel-
  • It’s casual and full of the grit and burn of a good argument but most of all it’s fun; it’s a constant sort of tug-of war between the two of them for who’s steering the relationship
  • But. It’s casual until it’s not.

Keep reading

6

GoT AU: Oberyn/Lyanna

He had, of course, told her of his daughters. Three at the time, though a forth, born barely a month before they had been married, would eventually become known.

Obara. Nymeria. Tyene. Sarella.

Sand Snakes they would eventually be known as. Four of the strongest women in all of Dorne. But Lyanna knew them when they were but girls. Girls who wanted nothing more than to be strong like their father. Obara had been nine, when first Lyanna met her, the girl had tried to knock her into the dirt with the spear she was learning to wield. Lyanna had shown that not all Northern women were weak. She had held her own, had bested, the young Sand Snake, showing that she had earned her own titled of She-Wolf. In doing so a bond, stronger than Valyrian steel, was forge between the girls and their father’s wife.

anonymous asked:

I had a crazy thought concerning Arya and Jon. Assuming that Jon does become Azor Ahai and completes the prophecy, would it be far fetched to say that Arya would be his Nissa Nissa? I can't think of anyone else who could fit the profile for Jon with Ygritte being dead. What are ur thoughts on Jon being Azor Ahai?

Well, first, I will confirm I’m in the camp of those who thinks that Jon is Azor Ahai reborn. I mean the whole Melisandre, all R’hllor shows her is “Snow” is hardly subtle. And it just makes sense because Jon’s storyline has been so intertwined with the Others and the Wall, it just is a logical conclusion. In fact, you could argue that as Lord Commander of the NW, he has been the chief opposition, the one in charge of preparing, for the war with the Others.

Although, I reserve judgement for now on the other prophecies (I’ll write my overall thoughts in another answer.) Because some I’m not sure will amount to anything, some seem to be the same person denoted, some might be red herrings, ect. (Do we really need a Stallion that Mounted the World, a The Last Hero, the Prince that was Promised, an Azor Ahai reborn, and all these other people- younger, more beautiful queen, valonqar, ect.?) That’s not even getting into the confirmed people (Bran, the Winged Wolf, for instance.) I’m pretty sure some are fakeouts, crossovers (like two prophecies are the same,) and unimportant but whatever.

I have actually seen this theory before (of Arya being Jon’s Nissa Nissa if he’s Azor Ahai.) Anyway, let’s look at the passage of this:

“Do you know the tale of the forging of Lightbringer? I shall tell it to you. It was a time when darkness lay heavy on the world. To oppose it, the hero must have a hero’s blade, oh, like none that had ever been. And so for thirty days and thirty nights Azor Ahai labored sleepless in the temple, forging a blade in the sacred fires. Heat and hammer and fold, heat and hammer and fold, oh, yes, until the sword was done. Yet when he plunged it into water to temper the steel it burst asunder.

“Being a hero, it was not for him to shrug and go in search of excellent grapes such as these, so again he began. The second time it took him fifty days and fifty nights, and this sword seemed even finer than the first. Azor Ahai captured a lion, to temper the blade by plunging it through the beast’s red heart, but once more the steel shattered and split. Great was his woe and great was his sorrow then, for he knew what he must do.

“A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.” Davos, ACoK

So we get a few important things about the story here:

  1. Nissa Nissa was killed by Azor Ahai presumably because only the “blood”, “soul”, “strength”, and “courage” of the one Azor Ahai “loved best of all this is in this world” could temper the blade.
  2. Which brings us to the fact that her death was utilzied to temper Lightbringer, not just to fight the Others. The sword was necessary for the battle with the Others yes, but her sacrifice was for the tool to make the sword- not to defeat the Others (an important distinction).
  3. The blade would not be tempered otherwise.
Presumably, we can get a few things from this. One is that contrary to popular belief, the “Nissa Nissa” doesn’t need to be a lover. It merely goes out of its way to say that she is the one loved best in the world- assumably Nissa Nissa for a new Azor Ahai could be a sibling (like Arya) or even a friend, as long as it is the person loved best.  I’ve actually read a few people who say Ygritte was Jon’s Nissa Nissa… which makes no sense. Now, I loved Jon/Ygritte, but Jon definitely did not love Ygritte more than Arya (or probably Robb and some others as well.) They just didn’t spend as much time together when you think of it. I mean Nissa Nissa and Azor Ahai were married and had a much stronger bond. Would people really say that Ygritte was the one Jon loved best of everyone in the world? Not to mention that Ygritte wasn’t killed by Jon, she was pierced by a wildling arrow. In a literal sense, Jon had nothing to do with her death (unlike say Dany/Drogo where she literally ended his life.) And what did her death do really? She didn’t bleed on some blade and give Jon a new Lightbringer. She just died, tragically, and gave Jon guilt (which I could name a bunch of other characters with similar figures who died and they feel guilty for it and think of it long after the fact like Arya/Mycah and Ned/Lyanna for example.) I think people way stretch with the whole Azor Ahai/Nissa Nissa bit for Jon/Ygritte. So on that front, Arya would look like a better candidate, after all, Jon thinks of Arya so much and her memory drives him pretty much all of ADWD. It’s so heavily emphasized, that GRRM even had this question:

Granny: Are you trying to say something to the reader by drilling into us how much Arya and Jon love each other? George_RR_Martin: "Say something to the reader?” No, I’m just reporting how the characters feel. <g> Of course, everything in the book says something to the reader [Source]

So all of that seems to indicate that Arya would be the perfect Nissa Nissa to Jon if he’s Azor Ahai reborn… But while I’m with the theorists up to that point, this is where I lose the belief. Why does there even need to be a new Nissa Nissa? What purpose would her sacrifice serve?  Assumably, we already have a Lightbringer. Unless the new Azor Ahai needs a new, flaming sword (what Darkbringer? Lightfinder?) why must he have a new Nissa Nissa to kill. There’s no new blade to temper. Where was it even said that there had to be a Nissa Nissa for Azor Ahai reborn? Isn’t she only brought up as a backstory for Azor Ahai in that Davos chapter in ACoK? AA is talked about all the time, but is she even mentioned again? Why did the fandom come to the conclusion that she’s at all necessary? And if there was a Nissa Nissa, and like the text seems to indicate she’s the one that AAR loves “best in the world”, then it would really have to be Arya.  But Arya is a huge character. Her plotline, her story importance will stand alone. She is never going to end up as a piece in someone else’s storyline (in the greater story, yes, that makes sense, but as an addition or supplement to someone else’s storyline, no, absolutely not.) Real talk: why would anyone think that Arya would be built up as a character, set apart as one of the four most important and most focused on characters, be GRRM’s second favorite character ever to just die for the sake of someone else’s storyline. That makes no sense. That’s like suggesting Dany will be sacrificed for Tyrion’s storyline. Why would that happen? So, really, what I think is no. I don’t believe there would even have to be a NN for AAR. As long as he has Lightbringer, he doesn’t need a loved one to sacrifice. And if there had to be a NN, Arya seems to make the most sense- unless Jon gets a lover that he loves best in the world before ADoS just to sacrifice- and GRRM is not going to sacrifice Arya for anyone’s storyline.
Who is Nissa Nissa?

(Spoilers from S05E09!)

A couple weeks ago, I wrote post entitled “Why Stannis is the Mannis” and after last night’s episode, a lot of fans are left wondering, what the hell just happened?

Many book readers are convinced that Stannis (Our Stannis. The Real Stannis. The Book Stannis) would never do this. During a Dance With Dragons, he scoffs at the idea of sacrificing anyone, “Half my army is made up of unbelievers,” he says, “I will have no burnings. Pray harder.” Stannis tells Davos that if he dies during the Battle of Winterfell that he’s to “avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt.” In the books, Shireen is left at The Wall specifically because a siege is a dangerous place for the heir to the Iron Throne.

So then why would Stannis sacrifice his daughter? Because Shireen is Nissa Nissa.

Early in a Clash of Kings, Salladhor Saan tells Davos about the forging of Lighbringer, the legendary sword of Azor Ahai who first defeated the Others thousands of years ago.

So you know the tale of the forging of Lightbringer? I shall tell it to you. It was when darkness lay heavy on the world. To oppose it, the hero must have a hero’s blade, oh, like none that had ever been. And so for thirty days and thirty nights Azor Ahai labored sleeplessly in the temple, forging a blade in the sacred fires. Heat and hammer and fold, heat and hammer and fold, oh, yes, until the sword was done. Yet when he plunged it into the water to temper the steal it burst asunder.

Being a hero, it was not too much for him to shrug and go in search of excellent grapes such as these, so he began. The second time it took him fifty days and fifty nights, and this sword seemed even finer than the first. Azor Ahai captured a lion, to temper the blade by plunging it through the beast’s red heart, but once more the steel shattered and split. Great was his woe and great was his sorrow, for he knew what he must do.

A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa,’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.

First Azor Ahai tempers the sword in water. Then he tempers it with the blood of a lion. Finally, he sacrifices his wife, the thing that he loves “best of all that is in this world” and then, and only then, is he able to create Lightbringer.

Stannis tries three times to win the Iron Throne. First Stannis fails in his assault of King’s Landing and is broken on the waters of Blackwater Bay. Then he uses blood magic to kill the lion Joffrey Baratheon. Finally, Stannis sacrifices Shireen, his daughter, the thing he loves best of all that is in this world, his Nissa Nissa, because he believes this is the only way to save the Seven Kingdoms and fulfill his destiny.

The bitter irony is that Stannis might not even be Azor Ahai. He sacrifices his daughter to save the lives of millions of people, to win the Iron Throne, and defeat the Others. He makes a decision that no human being should ever have to make. And it was probably all for nothing.