forced womanhood,

Discussion Time: Nature vs. Nurture

Do you all think that misogynoir is in the black community’s nature or do you believe that we were nurtured to uphold misogynoir?

In other words: Do you think that misogynoir is an innate trait passed down through ancestral bloodlines OR Were we conditioned by an outer force to hate black womanhood?

You can reply with the word “nature” or “nurture”. Feel free to add your reasoning as well. There is no right or wrong answer.

anonymous asked:

Have you ever wondered if your obsession with the Romantics has resulted in this dysphoria? I have dealt with the same feelings but a lot of self-identified gay trans men I have come across have issues with accepting womanhood can be a lot of things, and no, male relationships are not superior or something to revere where female relationships are cast aside as friendships and not exciting enough. Just a thought.

the romantics have shaped a large part of my identity (i did name myself in honor of john keats, after all), but if you’re looking for literature that sent me on my journey of gender/sexuality discovery, that honor actually goes to evelyn waugh’s brideshead revisited, which for those of you not in the know is a classic primarily about the relationship between two men in the 1920s. while i wouldn’t say that it was the result for me, it is true that obsession with predominantly male literature can be the cause for realizing you have dysphoria.

misogyny in the gay trans male community is a complicated subject, not justifiable, just complicated. because of patriarchal notions, cis men (and thus archetypal manhood by extension) are primed to view women as lesser. when you’re a cis gay man this is also an easy trap to fall into because by nature you are drawn to the company of other men, and when you’re trans there’s a whole other layer of having been forced to pretend womanhood, and having to, in a simplified sense, reject that mantle of womanhood to find yourself as a man. i think that it’s a messy cocktail of patriarchal values and our own internal conflicts in regards to our closeted trans male socialization.

i’d like to believe that i do a good job of listening to women’s varied experiences of their womanhood and recognizing the importance and beauty of relationships between women, but i also know that as a gay man i’ve been guilty of prioritizing gay male experiences/relationships on more than one occasion. this is something that we all need to work on, and i hope the parts of the gay trans male community which are most embroiled in this toxic narrative will learn how to change their views for the better

i want transgendered people to feel as happy, safe and healthy as anyone else. i want transwomen to have safe spaces of their own, and adequate support systems. i want males who reject masculinity and females who reject femninity to be celebrated. that doesn’t mean i have to accept transwomen as “real women,” the same as biological females. because they are simply not female, even postoperatively they are not the same as biological women - to say so is to delude oneself and be willfully ignorant of the material reality we all exist in. why should feminists and women be putting in all the hard work, and sacrificing years of progress in the meantime? yes, transwomen are males - this is not to say that are “men.” however, rejecting masculinity, taking hormones and removing ones male genitals doesn’t make one a woman, either. and simply claiming to identify into womanhood and women’s oppression, especially without legitimate explanation, is plainly sexist and ignores the oppressive reality that female people face as they are socialized into womanhood and forced into harmful female stereotypes. it’s not okay for them to take priority in the feminist discourse - because feminism concerns the oppression of females due to their reproductive organs and female bodies. gender dysphoric males are uncomfortable with their biological bodies, may feel more comfortable with gender stereotypes of womanhood, and typically prefer friendships with other females and trans individuals. this is completely okay and makes a lot of sense in our patriarchal society, and the same goes for the situation of transmen. but is a medicalized, symptomatic resolution to this issue necessarily the only viable solution? i find this solution would be better suited as a last resort. gender dysphoric individuals have a legitimate mental illness, and deserve to have access to proper care that doesn’t necessarily involve dangerous hormones and surgery, and denial of the physical body and material reality. gender dysphoric people can be accepted and safe without needing to get surgery/“be” the opposite sex, or invade necessarily female-only sex segregated spaces. transwomen can be transwomen without rejecting the realities that make them males. denying the very real differences in the experiences of gender dysphoric males and biological females is harmful and helps no one.

Remember You’re are 13 now. You shouldn’t talk to boys You shouldn’t look at boys You shouldn’t smile at boys

You’re developing. You will feel things You will want things That is not you. It is the devil. When he is finished with you You will just hate you.

Then it will come You might be prepared But it will come when you least expect That sudden clammy wetness Of blood Of natures forceful invitation to womanhood. You can’t play as you used to anymore You must leave your childhood And prepare for your husbands house

And the boys will come. Do not look at them Do not talk to them Do not smile at them

They will have sweet tongues And lies And stories Of futures Where you are rich and famous And in love With houses And cars And children

What they really want Is to meet and greet With the place between your legs And they might come again If you bend the bendiest Scream the loudest Twirl Twist Turn Bounce

If you can work your fingers And work your lips Wrap it around your mouth And flick it with your tongue Take it all in Swallow maybe But never spit out in their presence

Or they will leave After it’s done

So, Remember my child. You are 13 There is no pressure Don’t talk to boys They are the devil

Don’t even dare think about girls that way You become your own devil Don’t experiment Don’t you dare put your finger inside there Don’t enjoy it You will go to hell Even Pastor won’t save you Think about boys Because it’s only natural But don’t think about boys.

Not yet. You will still magically produce a husband

Out of thin air One that is not a devil One that won’t sell you dreams

But for now Boys are just a distraction From school From a good life From heaven! Heck, they will get your pregnant. Pregnant is useless and wasted

Don’t look at boys Don’t talk to boys Don’t smile at them.

—  Oluwatosin Adeshokan, How to be a Nigerian girl

i wanna clarify something. it’s absolutely true that as men trans men are socialized to perpetuate misogyny and exploit women. so you’re right but the only issue I have is that “x privilege” politics are too binary and simplistic. the fact is that before trans men are accepted by society as male, society literally tries to force womanhood on trans men. because of that many trans men absolutely are, during that time, systematically harmed by misogyny. society forcing womanhood and all the oppression that goes with it on trans men isn’t the same as, for example, misdirected homophobia which is stuff like a cishet getting bullied because they think he’s gay. that’s the issue with the term misdirected misogyny.

people and society dont “mistakenly think trans men are women”. it’s worse than that. they’re actively trying to make them women and they’re treating them accordingly. the term misdirected misogyny distracts from and ignores this fact and it conflates this oppression with the example about the cishet. the fact that this is because of transphobia is irrelevant, they are in cases like this harmed by misogyny in a way that cishet never will be by homophobia. this doesn’t mean that they aren’t men or that they dont perpetrate misogyny. it just means that when discussing trans mens relation to misogyny there needs to be a little bit of nuance.