final ellipsis

all fallen humans could save and reload

(undertale spoilers)

Frisk has the unique ability to save and load. Unlike other games, reloading affects the world, changing certain characters’ dialogues. It’s a power that Flowey had before Frisk and that seems to have always existed in the Underground. A big mystery is whether or not other humans before Frisk had this power. If the other humans had this power, how did they lose their soul to Asgore?


The Power’s Source: Determination

Flowey had the power to load and save before Frisk fell into the Underground. He explains this to Frisk if Toriel is killed and then spared after a reload.

FLOWEY:
Do you think you are the only one with that power?
The power to reshape the world…
Purely by your own determination.
The ability to play God!
The ability to “SAVE.”
I thought I was the only one with that power. But…
I can’t SAVE anymore.
Apparently YOUR desires for this world override MINE.
Well well.
Enjoy that power while you can.
I’ll be watching.

Flowey thought he was the only one with the power. This is because Flowey has only existed for a brief time – all the other humans have perished by the time he came into existence. This means Flowey isn’t a reliable source on whether or not the other humans had the ability to save and load. However, he does mention the source of the power.

Determination is the key. How Flowey discovered this power is revealed in his story that he shares with Chara.

FLOWEY:
But as I left this mortal coil…
I started to feel apprehensive.
If you don’t have a SOUL, what happens when you…?
Something primal started to burn inside me.
“No,” I thought. “I don’t want to die!”
Then I woke up.
Like it was all just a bad dream.
I was back at the garden.
Back at my “save point.”
Interested, I decided to experiment.
Again and again, I brought myself to the edge of death.
At any point, I could have let this world continue on without me.
But as long as I was determined to live…
I could go back.

Something “primal” burned in him. This primal feeling was likely the determination he was injected with. All humans have determination, given what is recorded in Entry Number 5.

The power to save and load is held by the one who is most determined in the Underground. Considering monsters do not have determination normally, any human who falls in the Underground would have the most determination – and thus have “the power to reshape the world.”


Toriel Feels Familiarity with Humans 

Despite this fact that all humans have determination, it’s hard to be sure that the other humans used the power. There is one monster, however, who knows the humans best – Toriel.

The second time Toriel asks Frisk whether they prefer cinnamon or butterscotch, she will immediately follow up with another question, asking if Frisk’s preference is the previous choice from the last reload or run. If confirmed that it is, she says something interesting.

Toriel’s comment is not only about Frisk – it’s about multiple humans. This means that Frisk is very likely not the first human to have used the power to save and reload.


Asgore Knows About the Power

Aside from Toriel, the only other monster that presumably met all the humans is Asgore. If Asgore kills Frisk, they will tell Asgore how many times they have been killed by him – Asgore solemnly agrees with Frisk each time. 

What makes this noteworthy, as @sleepy-9000 pointed out, is that Asgore is never surprised by this. Given that Asgore hired Alphys to find out how to unleash the power of the soul, he probably knows the nature of human souls. Whether or not that knowledge is enough for Asgore to not be surprised is uncertain. However, it is also possible that he learned about the power first hand when he killed the other humans who failed to make it past him.

Perhaps the other humans also told Asgore how many times he has killed them. There is no proof in game about this, but it could explain why he readily accepts Frisk’s words, with no surprise or doubt.

When Asgore first meets Frisk, his reaction is one of surprise.

ASGORE:
Oh? Is someone there?
Just a moment!
I have almost finished watering these flowers.
…Here we are!
Howdy! How can I…
Oh.
I so badly want to say, “would you like a cup of tea?”
You know how it is.
Nice day today, huh?
Birds are singing, flowers are blooming…
Perfect weather for a game of catch.
You know what we must do.
When you are ready, come into the next room.

Some believe it’s because no other human made it to him. Given what Undyne said, that is unlikely. His surprise was probably from seeing them so soon, as he desperately wanted to avoid this fight – a fight in which he would need to kill a child countless times.


Fighting the Humans

If the humans were all able to save and load, it seems odd that none of them were able to defeat Asgore. While Frisk may be a special case because they have Chara with them (as well as the player), there is one important factor in the fight: Asgore. 

During the hangout with Undyne, she recounts a story about herself and Asgore. She mentions one important fact – that she was never able to land “a single blow” on Asgore the first time she fought him.

UNDYNE:
And worse, the whole time, he refused to fight back!
I was so humiliated…
Afterwards, he apologized and said something goofy…
“Excuse me, do you want to know how to beat me?”
I said yes, and from then on, he trained me.
One day, during practice, I finally knocked him down.
I felt… bad.
But he was beaming…
I had never seen someone more proud to get their butt kicked. 

When Asgore first lost his children, he was full of fury. Out of anger, he declared war against humanity. It’s possible that when the other children fell into the underground, he was still angry and mercilessly fought the humans. Even if the humans could reload, Asgore may have been a near impossible boss to defeat. This means the humans gave up before they could finally beat him. As previously mentioned, Flowey explains about how he discovered his powers by feeling “determined to live”.

FLOWEY:
At any point, I could have let this world continue on without me.
But as long as I was determined to live…
I could go back.

Something very similar is stated in a book at the library. While the library book does not mention determination, it mentions another key word: hope.

Here it is stated that human souls don’t require hope to exist. Perhaps, if a determined human loses that “hope” in the future, then no matter how high their determination they will not reload – their soul continues to exist but the human remains dead. After all, Flowey makes it clear that reloading upon death was a choice.

With Frisk, however, Asgore never dodges. He stays completely still and takes every blow. His defense drops each time Frisk talks to him, and a lowered defense is a sign that a monster does not want to fight.

It’s very possible that he is burdened with so much regret and guilt from his actions that he only fights out of obligation. 

ASGORE:
Truthfully…
I do not want power.
I do not want to hurt anyone.
I just wanted everyone to have hope…
I cannot take this any longer.
I just want to see my wife.
I just want to see my child.
Please… Young one…
This war has gone on long enough.
You have the power…
Take my soul, and leave this cursed place.

When he is defeated by Frisk, Asgore bares his soul and speaks the truth. He does not want godlike powers or to hurt others. He “cannot take this any longer.” If Frisk spares him and Flowey does not intervene, Asgore commits suicide, possibly in part due to remorse and guilt. 


Conclusion

Given the information provided in the game, it is very likely that the other fallen humans, including Chara when they were alive, had the power to save and load.

To recap:

  • Determination is the source of the power to save and load.
  • Until otherwise specified, it is assumed that this power always existed in the Underground.
  • All humans have determination.
  • Toriel often feels that she knows the humans already, as if seeing old friends for the first time.
  • Asgore likely knows from first-hand experience that the humans can reload.
  • Asgore does not want to fight Frisk, which is why Frisk can defeat him. The other humans were not so lucky and likely gave up despite having the ability to reload.
Sans’ Judgments at LV 1

(undertale spoilers)

When you meet Sans for the first time in the Last Corridor, he will explain LOVE and EXP. If you have any EXP, he will say “all that’s important is that you were honest with yourself” as a follow up to his “Look inside yourself.” Subsequent talks with Sans in the Last Corridor will be custom judgments based off your LOVE.

It’s widely known that Sans will call the human “a pretty gross person” in one custom judgment if the human has EXP while at LV 1. However, with the help of @uselessundertalefacts​, it’s confirmed that this is not always the case!


Dialogue for Increasing LOVE between Judgments

As explained by @uselessundertalefacts​, the game keeps track of your LOVE once you have been given a custom judgment dependent on your LOVE. If the next time you speak to Sans you have one LOVE more than the last time you were judged, he will call you a “pretty gross person.”

Steps for this judgment:

  1. Talk to Sans for his first neutral judgment dialogue, which is acquired by killing monsters, if you haven’t seen it already – “truthfully, it doesn’t really matter what you said.”
  2. Reload to a save point before the judgment.
  3. Talk to Sans for his custom judgment dialogue – “huh? you look bored.”
  4. Reset/reload to a save point before the judgment.
  5. Kill enough to have one more LOVE than the last time you spoke to Sans.
  6. Talk to Sans again. This time, the custom judgment will be the dialogue in the screenshot –  “… huh? what’s with that look in your eye?”

However, if you complete the neutral route for the very first time or after a true reset or genocide at LV 1 with EXP, your last LOVE will be zero. This qualifies you for the “pretty gross person” judgment.


Default Judgment Dialogue

The code checks the following during Sans’ custom judgment:

  • if your current LOVE is two, three, greater than three, greater than nine, or greater than fourteen
  • if your current LOVE is greater than the last time you were judged by one
  • if your current LOVE is the same as the last time you were judged

However, it does not explicitly check for LV 1. This means that if your LOVE is greater than one the first time you are judged and then you try for the judgment at LV 1 with EXP, Sans will give you a default dialogue. An exasperated “come on. really?” is used if your LOVE does not meet any of the previously mentioned conditions.

Steps for this judgment:

  1. Talk to Sans for his first neutral judgment dialogue at a LOVE higher than one, if you haven’t seen it already – “truthfully, it doesn’t really matter what you said.”
  2. Reload to a save point before the judgment.
  3. Talk to Sans for his custom judgment dialogue – “huh? you look bored.”
  4. Reset the game.
  5. Acquire less than 10 EXP.
  6. Talk to Sans again, and this time it’s the default. – “come on. really?”

Alternatively, reach Sans’ last corridor at LV 1 with EXP and kill a monster in the Core to get the first custom judgment, then reload to get back the LV 1 with EXP and talk to him again.

cooperation not corruption: the effects of kill count

(undertale spoilers)

it’s no secret that killing monsters causes frisk to undergo a steady and dark transformation. as monsters fall and LOVE climbs, japes and patience are replaced with efficiency and harm. frisk looks in the mirror and recognises themself as chara, as does flowey. at first glance, it may appear that the collected LOVE and EXP are corrupting and twisting chara. however, careful testing has uncovered something surprising: LOVE does not affect chara – if anything, it’s a measure of their control. while EXP and LOVE are welcome perks, nearly every genocide specific trigger hinges upon kill count, a count that chara tracks and even encourages.

kill count is important in the genocide route, but just how important is it? after countless tests, multiple runs, and hours of grinding, there may finally be an answer. this analysis breaks down the effects of kill count on the narration and the environment, the disparities between neutral and genocide routes, what precisely triggers or aborts a genocide run, and what it all means for chara’s corruption, or lack thereof.

Keep reading

The Allergy Call

When navigating through the Ruins, Frisk will receive a series of scripted calls from Toriel. In one room with a single rock and spikes, Toriel will call to ask Frisk’s preference for cinnamon or butterscotch. There will be a follow up call about whether or not Frisk would mind the other flavor. However, there is a third call in this room that appears to happen at random.

The call about Frisk’s allergy can occur in any route, regardless of how much LOVE Frisk has. It seems to happen at random. Others have speculated it’s a “fun” event. However, both of these speculations are wrong. The call occurs if Frisk does not read this sign in the room after the first two scripted calls and before attempting to exit the room.

This conclusion is the result of countless tests, which included testing different fun and LOVE values. It truly seemed to be random until the room was approached with the mindset of a new player – do not skip through the text quickly and check everything in the room. With this approach, it was discovered that the reading the sign is the key to not get the allergy call!

Listen to Scripted Calls, Read Sign – No Allergy Call

Note: To focus on the calls, random encounters were edited out of the footage.

Regardless of how Frisk answers Toriel’s question in the first call, there will be a scripted second call. Afterwards, the sign must be read. From multiple tests, it does not seem to matter whether the sign is read before or after pushing the rock – as long as the sign is read before passing a certain point after the deactivated spikes.

Listen to Scripted Calls, Skip Sign – Allergy Call

Note: To focus on the calls, random encounters were edited out of the footage.

As seen in the second footage, Frisk does not read the sign after listening to the scripted calls. After clearing the deactivated spikes and before reaching the exit, Toriel calls a third time to ask about allergies. 


The Truth

Although there was satisfaction in knowing how to trigger the call, the reason behind it was very obscure. After discussing this call with @uselessundertalefacts, the idea that this was a bug seemed the most logical. To settle this once and for all, a bug report was submitted.

While the aforementioned scenarios will consistently give the same results, the missing allergy call is indeed a bug.

the-final-jump  asked:

A curious inquiry, as I was sitting and thinking about it. If we believe the HP theory of it meaning HoPe and how this relates to Sans, he does not die immediately when we fight him. If I remember right, our kills do not increase while LV does. Sans does not seem to believe he is dying either--if he is on the border of 'falling down' every day, he likely is numb to it, but he still abandoned the fight. Do you think what he did was 'fall down'? That despite our attack, he gave up on his own?

(undertale spoilers)

The theory that HP stands for Hope is a lovely idea, but it is mere speculation at this point. There is no evidence in game to support it, so we unfortunately cannot take it into account. 

As for how Sans does not die immediately, keep in mind that all of the bosses in this game do not turn to dust on the final strike. 

Each boss will still have a few moments to give their last words before perishing. It is only Sans that takes those moments to leave the battle screen. It’s unclear as to why.

Interesting that you mentioned how Sans may be on the border of “falling down” every day. There is actually unused text from the game that mentions that the state “fallen down” is only experienced by monsters who “are about to expire of age”.

(It’s a book labelled Monster History Part 6.) [ Read it | Do not ]
Unfortunately, monsters are not experienced with illness.
However, when monsters are about to expire of age, they lie down, immobile.
We call this state “Fallen Down.”
A person who has Fallen Down will soon perish.

The only text that are accessible in the game that mention monsters death and “fallen down” are the following:

Snowdin Library

(It’s a school report about monster funerals.)
Monster funerals, technically speaking, are cool as heck.
When monsters get old and kick the bucket, they turn into dust.
At funerals, we take that dust and spread it on that person’s favorite thing.

True Laboratory 

ENTRY NUMBER 6
ASGORE asked everyone outside the city for monsters that had “fallen down.”
Their bodies came in today.
They’re still comatose… And soon, they’ll all turn into dust.

In any case, there is no in-game evidence to suggest that “fallen down” state would occur to a monster who is giving up or with very little hope. Additionally, while we may not know Sans’ age, he is not portrayed as an old man. It is unlikely that Sans is on the verge of “falling down”. An interesting speculation, but there is no evidence to back it up. Ultimately, to answer your question, it is unlikely that Sans’ death is a case of giving up and “falling down” on his own. Especially with how hard he is trying to stop the player from finishing the game.

As for why the kill counter does not count Sans’ death, there is another reason why that may be the case. However, that is covered in this post!