There’s also, in the pre-coronation deleted scene, the fact that even the servants don’t seem to respect Loki. Thor makes his comment about some doing battle and others doing tricks and the dude with the drink tray feels completely safe in snickering at the expense of a prince of Asgard to his face. Sure, Thor said it and you could argue Drinkman is more sucking up to Thor than actively dissing Loki, but that still means it’s a-okay with Thor for not just him (big brother privileges) but the servants to openly mock his brother. Besides which, the amusement reads as genuine to me and that reads as Drinkman being totally unafraid of repercussions from Thor/Odin/Loki himself for a lack of due reverence to royal blood. And that paints a certain picture of the general Asgardian attitude toward Loki and what his response has been in the past.

This whole little moment lends a lot more credence to the theory that Loki got endless shit for being a magic user in a warrior society than I imagined it had. I didn’t really know where people were getting it from at first, but this utterly validates it. I’m very surprised not to see it mentioned much.

I didn’t get the Lokifeels the first time I saw the film. I wondered what the internet was on. But I have seen the light (dark?). Though poor Thor, also. He just had no idea.


Quoting myself~~

So I said this a million years ago and now I’m thinking about it again. Mostly, I wonder about the logistics of that last point. So, is there a magic-using caste on Asgard? Is there a book-learning caste? Are those two the same? If Thor immediately relates science with magic so completely, I feel drawn to the idea that magic is a learnèd discipline one would study in some kind of formal educational setting. 

Is the problem with Loki being primarily a sorcerer only that he’s an Odinson and therefore needs to live up to the Warrior Prince ideal,  but it wouldn’t be much of an issue if he were lower ranking? It’s obviously also about how he uses magic (ie: for misdirection and trickery and ranged combat) and the fact that it helps him avoid the ‘damn the torpedoes’ approach to fighting that is apparently considered the only honourable way on Asgard. (This opinion perpetuated because of the cranial trauma sustained by adherents?)

They clearly must have engineers and architects and all that; are these people magic-users and is that considered honourable?

There is a certain amount of shock and discomfort going on with Loki and I don’t think it’s about fear of him as a person because they treat him like a joke (and he’s not what they would call threatening), it’s about fear and mistrust of his magical abilities in the abstract. Leading to the thought that his abilities are not typical and not the way Asgardians who do do magic are able/taught to use it. Or that there’s a general 'keep it on the qt and as mysterious as possible and away from me’ attitude towards magic’s use?

I guess I wonder if it’s ever okay to be as flamboyantly magical as Loki seems fond of being, if there are any people like him on Asgard (scholars? priests? an actual specifically-magic-using caste?) or if he really is that much of an outsider.

Odin’s a sorcerer in myths, but the film doesn’t tell us anything about that. They’re very comfortable with using magitech artefacts, tools, armour, etc. and Odin does too, but apart from that… I do feel compelled to point out that with the manipulation, the pragmatism, the probable magicness and the indirect, sneaky, diplomatic approach, Loki is the son who actually takes after his father. Thor takes after his public image. Which was kind of Thor’s problem, now that I think on it.

Of general interest - Jane Foster and MCU Asgard

//  If you are role playing an MCU Asgardian character or someone who goes to Asgard, I strongly recommend: Worldbuilding MCU!Asgard.

Additionally, if you like some of the OOC information/discussion about Jane and women of science that you see on this blog, as well as general information and insight on the character, you should visit: Foster Theory.

If you see this silly person interacting with them or in the Jane tag, that’s totally just me when I’m not too lazy to log out of my RP account here.

exploringmcuasgard reblogged your post: exploringmcuasgard reblogged your post: Thoughts…

Ah right, thats cool. thank you! However, we dont know whether this applies in the films as well; implication is that interrealm travel without magical artefacts/tech is difficult in the film!verse.

I know there’s a difference between them, but it’s at least the foundation the MCU stands on after all. I think they did a good choice with the films, to not make them so bloody powerful as they are in the comics because if this is what Odin can do, who could ever really threaten anything when daddy Odin can intervene like this. He tends not to, but still. It’s dramatically more interesting if he isn’t quite this powerful. He can still transport obviously since he sent Thor back to Earth, but it’s a bit fussy exactly what he can do in the MCU. Which is fine, because the less you define, it’s less likely you end up writing yourself in to a corner (Star Trek anyone?). The films is a sort of reset for the Marvel universe, so the fact that things are less formidable is quite logical. Easier for people to buy and easier to make film out of.

A Recurring Question About the Nigh-Immortal

So, do we think that Asgardians live an approximately human-length childhood and then their aging slows as they reach physical maturity or do we think that their childhood/physical development is proportionate to their potential life-span?

Obviously, for Thor to make any kind of coherent sense, I think you have to go with the latter. Thor and Loki are ‘boys’ and they’re immature and just seriously not adults, but they’re both over one thousand years old. I ended up sort of passively deciding as I wrote my fic that a) since time is relative, this is sort of not the right question and b) they just don’t experience/measure/have awareness of time in the same way that humans do. So, from our perspective, it’s an extremely long maturation, but obviously they wouldn’t see it that way and the development of a mind that has so much greater capacity than a human mind would sort of change things. (Think about their memory, living for 10 000+ years.)

I actually delight in the paradox of Thor as an ancient compared to his human friends, with so much more knowledge than they have and all these years lived, but also still a teenager and functionally much 'younger’ than Jane in a very real way. Or Loki, someone most of fandom thinks of as an intellectual type who would have a lot of learnings, who would stack up next to Erik as knowing so much more but his thought-patterns would be less… not less developed, but less “experienced”. Whatever that nebulous distinction I’m trying to make is.

Or something. Why did I try to think about this at work.