There’s also, in the pre-coronation deleted scene, the fact that even the servants don’t seem to respect Loki. Thor makes his comment about some doing battle and others doing tricks and the dude with the drink tray feels completely safe in snickering at the expense of a prince of Asgard to his face. Sure, Thor said it and you could argue Drinkman is more sucking up to Thor than actively dissing Loki, but that still means it’s a-okay with Thor for not just him (big brother privileges) but the servants to openly mock his brother. Besides which, the amusement reads as genuine to me and that reads as Drinkman being totally unafraid of repercussions from Thor/Odin/Loki himself for a lack of due reverence to royal blood. And that paints a certain picture of the general Asgardian attitude toward Loki and what his response has been in the past.

This whole little moment lends a lot more credence to the theory that Loki got endless shit for being a magic user in a warrior society than I imagined it had. I didn’t really know where people were getting it from at first, but this utterly validates it. I’m very surprised not to see it mentioned much.

I didn’t get the Lokifeels the first time I saw the film. I wondered what the internet was on. But I have seen the light (dark?). Though poor Thor, also. He just had no idea.


Quoting myself~~

So I said this a million years ago and now I’m thinking about it again. Mostly, I wonder about the logistics of that last point. So, is there a magic-using caste on Asgard? Is there a book-learning caste? Are those two the same? If Thor immediately relates science with magic so completely, I feel drawn to the idea that magic is a learnèd discipline one would study in some kind of formal educational setting. 

Is the problem with Loki being primarily a sorcerer only that he’s an Odinson and therefore needs to live up to the Warrior Prince ideal,  but it wouldn’t be much of an issue if he were lower ranking? It’s obviously also about how he uses magic (ie: for misdirection and trickery and ranged combat) and the fact that it helps him avoid the ‘damn the torpedoes’ approach to fighting that is apparently considered the only honourable way on Asgard. (This opinion perpetuated because of the cranial trauma sustained by adherents?)

They clearly must have engineers and architects and all that; are these people magic-users and is that considered honourable?

There is a certain amount of shock and discomfort going on with Loki and I don’t think it’s about fear of him as a person because they treat him like a joke (and he’s not what they would call threatening), it’s about fear and mistrust of his magical abilities in the abstract. Leading to the thought that his abilities are not typical and not the way Asgardians who do do magic are able/taught to use it. Or that there’s a general 'keep it on the qt and as mysterious as possible and away from me’ attitude towards magic’s use?

I guess I wonder if it’s ever okay to be as flamboyantly magical as Loki seems fond of being, if there are any people like him on Asgard (scholars? priests? an actual specifically-magic-using caste?) or if he really is that much of an outsider.

Odin’s a sorcerer in myths, but the film doesn’t tell us anything about that. They’re very comfortable with using magitech artefacts, tools, armour, etc. and Odin does too, but apart from that… I do feel compelled to point out that with the manipulation, the pragmatism, the probable magicness and the indirect, sneaky, diplomatic approach, Loki is the son who actually takes after his father. Thor takes after his public image. Which was kind of Thor’s problem, now that I think on it.

Theories regarding MCU Asgard & Jotumeim’s planetary cycles & geographical history

Disclaimer: I know a fair bit about planets but I don’t claim to know everything. These are just my theories based on what I know about real planets, but this won’t necessarily be scientifically accurate.
Unfortunately, I can’t do the other realms since I don’t know enough about them. As for Earth, you have the internet at your fingertips.

Part 1 Asgard

Geographical History

We all know that the Earth is around 4.5 billion years old (well, except young Earth creationists that is). I’m not entirely sure how old Asgard is, but I have a feeling that it’s much older than Earth. My theory is that Asgard is roughly around 8 or 9 billion years old. I’m going sorely on the fact that its inhabitants (the Asgardians or Aesir) live much longer than Earths inhabitants. Since they live longer than us means that they’ve most probably had more time to evolve and adapt to their environment than we have.

Looking at Asgard, you can tell it’s not an actual planet (it looks more like the Disk World from the Terry Pratchet novels minus the elephants & the turtle). It bares more resemblance to an asteroid, which has led me to believe that it most likely is. One that happens to have life & orbit around a star.

My theory as to how Asgard came about is that since its inhabitants seem to be quite physically hardy compared to humans who are squishier in comparison, which leads me to believe that Asgard might’ve been part of an actual planet that had denser gravity at one point before the Aesir came onto the scene. A planet with life that had to adapt to this dense gravity. But then one day, something happened that separated rock that was to become Asgard from the rest of the planet. Maybe the planet was hit by something, I dunno, but something must’ve happened along those lines. It would’ve caused mass extinctions, killing anything bigger than a mouse, or even smaller creatures. But really, it would be a miracle that anything survived at all. And of course, what was left would eventually evolve into the Aesir and other Asgardian creatures, similar to what happened on Earth.

It’s amazing how no matter how much water seems to be lost going over the edge at the Bifrost gates, Asgard never seems to run out of water. The reason for that, I think, is because while some of it would be lost into space, much of it evaporates and floats back into the atmosphere and comes back down as rain. I think it’s inevitable though that Asgard will eventually run out of water.

Planetary Cycle

The Earth revolves around the sun in 364-5 days roughly. It’s hard to tell how long it takes for Asgard to revolve around its star, so I have no way of telling exactly how long their years are. But I’m guessing that it’s roughly the same as ours. The same goes for their days.

Since Asgard (as I’ve discussed above) obviously isn’t a planet, but a disk shaped asteroid, you do wonder how it still manages to have a day and a night. Well as we all know, the Earth rotates on an axis, and my theory is that Asgard also rotates on an axis, but differently. While Earth’s axis is at an angle, Asgards axis is sideways so when it’s day time, Asgard faces the sun and faces away when it’s night, sort of like the turning of an hourglass.

Part 2 Jotunheim

Geographical History

My theory is that Jotunheim is roughly 7 or 8 billion years old. Unlike Asgard, Jotunheim’s a proper planet and formed just like any other planet did. There doesn’t seem to be any liquid water on the surface, but that might be a different case under the ice. Some of my theories are that Jotumheim has many underground oceans, lakes and rivers where a lot of marine & microbial life thrive. Evidently there’s little to no plant life, they probably exist under the snow and don’t need sunlight to survive.

It appears that Jotunheim’s inhabitants are also physically hardy compared to humans as well. Jotunheim probably had denser gravity at one point as well.

Planetary cycle

It seems that Jotunheim only has a night time, no day time. It could be because either the planet rotates at the same pace that it takes to orbit its star much like how our moon orbits the Earth, so one side’s in constant darkness while the other side is in constant light. It could be that another planet is blocking the sunlight. It could also be the state of the atmosphere. I highly doubt the reason is because there is no sun, life would cease to be if that was the case. Again, it’s hard to tell how long its years last. Again I’m guessing that they’re roughly about as long as they are on Earth & Asgard.

Jotunheim is obviously a very cold (dark and quite depressing) place. It’s been described by many as a dying realm. My theory as to why that is, is that the planet is gradually orbiting further and further away from its sun, just like out moon is orbiting further and further away from the Earth. Eventually, it might go floating off into space. Maybe that’s why the Jotuns invented the Casket of Ancient Winters originally, to prevent the slow death of their race and planet, since it’s implied that after it was confiscated by Odin, life on Jotunheim started becoming more difficult. The reason why Jotunheim is so cold to begin with, I’m positive, is because it’s situated at the very edge of the Goldilocks Zone, a term coined by scientists to describe the right spot in a star’s orbit where it’s possible for life to exist. Earth is situated in the Goldilocks Zone which means it’s possible for us to exist and thrive. But Jotunhiem is at the very edge and it’s inhabitants are clinging on to life.

A Recurring Question About the Nigh-Immortal

So, do we think that Asgardians live an approximately human-length childhood and then their aging slows as they reach physical maturity or do we think that their childhood/physical development is proportionate to their potential life-span?

Obviously, for Thor to make any kind of coherent sense, I think you have to go with the latter. Thor and Loki are ‘boys’ and they’re immature and just seriously not adults, but they’re both over one thousand years old. I ended up sort of passively deciding as I wrote my fic that a) since time is relative, this is sort of not the right question and b) they just don’t experience/measure/have awareness of time in the same way that humans do. So, from our perspective, it’s an extremely long maturation, but obviously they wouldn’t see it that way and the development of a mind that has so much greater capacity than a human mind would sort of change things. (Think about their memory, living for 10 000+ years.)

I actually delight in the paradox of Thor as an ancient compared to his human friends, with so much more knowledge than they have and all these years lived, but also still a teenager and functionally much 'younger’ than Jane in a very real way. Or Loki, someone most of fandom thinks of as an intellectual type who would have a lot of learnings, who would stack up next to Erik as knowing so much more but his thought-patterns would be less… not less developed, but less “experienced”. Whatever that nebulous distinction I’m trying to make is.

Or something. Why did I try to think about this at work.