discourse-communities

Can people stop making posts about smoking and eating herbs without the side effects? Like I know you think you’re doing good by adding “talk to your doctor first!!” But let’s be honest, not that many people are going too. Please be responsible and add all the side effects or negative interactions or I’m just going to start hijacking posts because some of y'all are recommending herbs that are probably more harmful then helpful long term? And you include no proper warnings or disclosures.

Bi things no one talks about

Straight women being repulsed by bisexual men, because he’s secretly gay.

Gay women having a ban on bisexual women, because they are “greedy” or “experimenting” or “will cheat on me with a man”.

Straight men asking bisexual women constantly if they want or have had threesomes, as if bisexual women are only sex objects.

Gay men refusing to acknowledge their partners as bisexual, or even trying to “turn them”. 

These are not okay, these hurt bisexual people. 

  • tumblr: shoplifting as a means of survival should not be a punishable offence
  • me: yes true it should be handled by social security services without police involvement because avoiding death is not a crime and-
  • tumblr: i should be able to just fucking take sephora makeup from the shop shelves scot-free because communism
  • me: you know what nevermind i hope you get arrested

Gonna make this it’s own post because I feel like I’m gonna be saying it a lot this month.

If you’re participating in Pride Month and you have the gall to post something along the lines of “Happy pride, cishet aces still aren’t LGBT!” or “Friendly reminder for pride month that cishet aces aren’t part of it” then kindly fuck off of Tumblr for the whole month.

This month is about strength and community and support and PRIDE IN WHO WE ARE, and you’re a hypocrite if you use this month as a weapon against asexual and aromantic members of our community.

so many things in this mogai/“queer community”/ace discourse on tumblr actually goes directly against what LGBT people have been fighting for for decades:

- all of these “sexualities” that are just describing how someone likes to have sex when LGBT people have been trying to explain to straights for years that our labels, our orientations, and our lives are NOT solely focused on sex and therefore inappropriate to mention in public or in front of kids

- asexuals joking (or being completely serious) about how gross PDA is, specifically gay PDA, when LGBT have been murdered for showing the slightest affection in public

- the neverending pride flags for mogai “sexualities” and now for mental illnesses? is frankly one of the most disrespectful things I have ever seen. People have DIED for our pride flag. It has a real, important history. It’s not something some socially awkward kid on the internet made in paint. 

- so many people wanting to be part of the LGBT community without understanding that it’s not just some community for all outcasts, it is a political alliance with an important history

- the casual use of the term “queer” and the non-LGBT people who identify with it because they believe they are “different” and “not normal” and “that’s what the word originally meant” as if that’s not exactly why it was used as a fucking slur against only gay/bi/trans people for decades 

 - the general attitude of “I’m LGBT/queer because I’m different”  when actual LGBT people have been fighting for EQUALITY, as in we don’t WANT TO BE SEEN AS DIFFERENT 

it just all blows my mind and it honestly scares me because it’s dangerous. it’s fucking dangerous. we have so many cis hetero people trying to barge into our community and change it into the opposite of what it is supposed to be. 

this isn’t going to end well for us.

What I don’t get about the ‘resources’ argument is, how exactly do asexuals waste LGBT resources if we don’t need them? If being ace won’t get you kicked out of your home, you won’t need housing. If being ace won’t get you fired, you won’t need the financial backup. If being ace doesn’t put you at physical risk, you won’t need the protective services that the LGBT community can muster.

If, on the other hand, being ace does cause you to deal with any of the above, then the resources aren’t being ‘wasted’ – they’re going toward the safety and well-being of somebody who’s being punished for not being straight. Isn’t that the point of those resources to begin with?

I’m honestly confused how this argument even works. The only way it makes sense is if we’re walking up to a community that we have zero need of, and they’re just going ‘okey-dokey! 8D’ and handing us shit we clearly don’t need. Is that what y’all are trying to say? I’m honestly curious.

Pro tip: If you’re looking into signing on with a pagan group, the phrases “male and female energies” and “Great Rite initiation” are both secret codes.  The former means, “We will refuse to respect your identity,” and the latter means, “Yeah, we’re a cult, but we’re a sexy cult,” and they can both be taken as shorthand for, “Run, bro.  Run away,  Run fast.  Run far.”

gay was a word that was reinvented by actual gay people to be an identifier, yes some people use it as an insult but that doesn’t mean its a slur.

queer was a word that was reinvented as a slur against LGBT people and some people choose to reclaim it and use it as an identifier.

please learn the difference.

Another thing about the “acecourse” is that it doesn’t only stop aroace people from entering the LGBTQ+ community, it also completely destroys all chances for us to build a separate community (which many of y'all have told us that we should).

The acecourse, exclusionists, and other types of aphobes and similar, actively stop us from talking about issues affecting us. Some examples of this is “aphobia isn’t real”, “that doesn’t actually happen to ace people”, and “minors can’t be ace”/“asexuality is a modifier, not a sexual orientation”. Some of y'all go as far as hunting down kids posting selfies and making stimboards etc for their sexuality.

Many ace people, myself included, completely stopped talking about being ace, stopped sharing problems and experiences, and stopped reaching out to help questioning youth etc. It was only recently that I was able to stand up again and be proud of being asexual, something you people have beaten out of most of us during the past few years. You have ingrained fear and shame into an entire group of people. Let that sink in.

How are we to develop and grow as a community (in the LGBTQ+ or separate), as people, and in our terminology and identities, when you people continuously keep on invalidating our experiences, changing the meaning of our terminology, and attacking us (especially kids) for expressing ourselves through art, jokes, labels, and just sharing experiences?

Classic Homophobia or Tumblr Discourse?

“The gay community is overly sexual and only cares about sex.”

“Gay spaces are NOT safe for minors.”

“Everyone has the capacity to be attracted to someone of the opposite gender.”

“Lesbians can still be attracted to men.”

“Being only attracted to the same gender is weird and I don’t get it.”

“We understand you don’t like these terms we’ve assigned to describe you, but you’ll just have to deal with it.”

“Actually, we know how much you dislike these terms so we’ll start calling you them mockingly.”

“Why are we ignoring the fact that gay men can be and ARE sexual predators who will prey on straight men?”

“Lesbians contribute to the male gaze and are extremely misogynistic.”

“Gay men and lesbians are violent oppressors who must be stopped before they destroy us.”

“EW! No! I’m not gay, I’m _______.”

“Gay men dying during the aids crisis was not tragic. They died, and rightfully so, because of these bad things they did.”

“Gay men and lesbians have had it good for too long.”

“Even though this other group has caused us these problems, let’s blame the gay community.”

“The gay community controls the media.”

“The gay community is selfish and filled with upper class snobs.”

roleplayers are people, not just accounts.

this is something that i’ve been meaning to talk about for a while now. it’s begun to weigh heavily in the community that i write in as well as those of others. it’s the idea that we should take pride in callout culture and completely obliterating accounts. that a callout post needs to be written for any and all transgressions, that one half of a story is gospel, and that roleplayers can be judged as problematic by association.

let’s start with face-saving apologies. the type of apology that a roleplayer will half-assedly give just to have a receipt of one. to appease those they hurt when the harm was intentional and in no way plan on improving themselves as a person. the kind of apology that is issued so they will sympathized with rather than ridiculed. these apologies are absolute bullshit. if you’re going to vague or be a bully or act out, own your behavior. i’m aware this sounds hypocritical coming from a burn book but what happens on the dash is a lot different than sending something to us. when posting on the dash your content is broadcasted to a direct audience. the same community. here, it gets thrown into an aggregate void and spat back out. don’t vague or talk behind someone’s back and believe that it won’t get around to them.

it shouldn’t be a goal to attack someone over petty shit. don’t criticize people for liking or not liking something that isn’t heavily problematic. you can dislike the vampire diaries but write with a stefan salvatore. you can hate damon salvatore as a character and still like the vampire diaries. what doesn’t need to happen is posting harmless opinions on your own blog and then being attacked for them. if someone is so hurt over another rper disliking their fandom then maybe roleplay isn’t for that person. stop being so fucking petty.

to attempt to destroy a persons reputation over hurt feelings is a stupid, selfish thing to do. keep your friend circle bullshit in your friend circle. nobody needs to be put on blast or shunned for actions that were not purposely or outright abusive or otherwise disturbing. you cannot claim to be looking out for your own mental health by seeking to turn people against another roleplayer who may have hurt your feelings. not only is it immature, it puts the other person’s mental health at risk and while some people on this website believe that the world revolves around them, i can assure you that it does not. nobody in this blue hellscape is judge or jury.

finally, it saddens me as well as the other mods to hear constantly from people who have been turned on by their friends and partners and are now having panic attacks because they’re afraid that they’re being slandered in private; that i, as well as many of my close friends, have become too paranoid to interact with certain people after negative experiences with roleplayers similar to them; that we’re still having to hear that people are being called “abusive” and “manipulative” and “toxic” for hurting another roleplayer’s feelings accidentally or handling a situation badly and then having such critical language thrown on their name.

behind every roleplay account is a person with a life and family and friends and feelings. they’re not merely account names to drag through the mud. think before you wild out or gossip or act like an asshole. it’s not all that difficult to have some god damn tact every once in a while.

Okay I’ve been getting upset about this subject a lot lately so I might as well type it up.

Your Orientation and the Ace Identity

Just to start with, I’m a gay (homosexual) asexual.

“But how can you be both homosexual and asexual?” you might ask.

That’s because the sexual orientations have nothing to do with whether you feel sexual attraction or not at all, despite what some definition written by a cishet white male doctor from fifty years ago might say.

Let me put it this way.

Sexual orientations = Who (Gender)
Ace identities = How (Lack of Sexual Attraction, Not Affected by Gender)

They’re about Who you’re attracted to, not how you feel that attraction. As such, asexual is not an orientation, but rather the lack of sexual attraction. It’s a valid identity, but it is not an orientation.

The Problem With Romantics and Split-Attraction Model

See, there’s a really big problem with the romantics, and why I refuse to ID with them and refuse to use the Split-Attraction model.

The split attraction model, for those who don’t know, goes like this:

____romantic (romantic attraction)
____sexual (sexual attraction)

Which almost completely contradicts my previous point:

The sexualities have nothing to do with sexual attraction.

Splitting attraction like this is misleading and inherently sexualizes the orientations, which makes me and a lot of others incredibly uncomfortable, but you can use it to ID yourself if you want to! Just do not use the split attraction model for people who don’t already use it.

When you use the split attraction model for non-aces and people who don’t use it themself, you are sexualizing them without their consent by making their orientation inherently sexual.

You can use the sexual orientations even if you’re ace and don’t experience sexual attraction.

The Problems with Allosexual

The term allosexual was coined by ace individuals to refer to non-aces. The problem with this term is that it implies a power structure and axis of oppression that does not exist.

Women are not privileged for having sexual attraction. Women are invalidated and oppressed for being sexual or non-sexual.

SGA and Trans individuals are discriminated against MORE if they experience sexual attraction. 

The only people who are privileged for their sexual attraction are cisgender hetero males, primarily white.

How CisHet Aces and CisHet Aros are still Straight

“But how can they be straight AND asexual?” you might ask.

It’s easy. Because asexuality does not affect your orientation. It is a modifier identity that tells others you have a lack of sexual attraction.

You agree that Heterosexual non-aces are straight, yes?
Then Hetero- Aces are straight too.

Ace identities don’t affect your orientation, and as such do not affect the privileges or oppressions you have based on your gender identity or orientation..

The Ace Community and why it is not be LGBT

This is a hot topic lately and I can sort of understand why. Let’s begin with how the A for Ace campaign began.

David Jay, a Cisgender Hetero Ace man advocated to make the Ace Community LGBT so it could use the LGBT Community’s visibility.

Let’s start of here: He is a CisHet man. He had no right advocating to include the Ace Community in the LGBT community because he is both Cisgender and Hetero.

The LGBT community began as a movement to fight systematic homophobia and transphobia.

This right here is the big ticket item. I’ll try and make it simpler to understand why other orientations and genders outside the LGBT acronym are included.

Homophobia - Systematic opression directed at those who experience same gender attraction. All LGBT subsects have systematically suffered under this.

Biphobia - Largely stems from homophobia. It’s a mixture of homophobia and other discrimination that only bisexuals and those under the bi umbrella (MGA) face.

Lesbophobia - Homophobia specifically targeted at women. Includes Misogyny. Only wlw experience this type of oppression.

Transphobia - Specific set of systemized oppressions that Trans, nonbinary, and agender individuals face for not matching their socially designated gender. Trans individuals also suffer under homophobia, which was equally directed at them throughout history.

That was a bit longer than I planned to write it, but that’s the gist of it.

The Ace Community, as it stands, does not suffer under any of these other oppressions, or subsets of them, for being ace. Ace discrimination and stigma does not stem from homophobia or transphobia, but from ignorance, ableism, and misogyny.

The Problem with Q*eer

The problem with q*eer, other than it being a slur, is that it has solely been aimed at those suffering under homophobia (and its subsets) and transphobia.

If you are Cisgender and Hetero, you are not allowed to use q*eer.

We are not the Q*eer community. It is a slur. You may only self-identify as it if you experience SGA/MGA or are Trans.

In Summary

  • Cisgender Hetero Aces are straight because being ace does not affect the privileges one has by virtue of their gender identity or orientation.
  • Allosexual is a homophobic, transphobic, and sexist term that implies that LBGT individuals and women are privileged for feeling sexual attraction.
  • The Ace Community does not suffer under an axis of oppression by virtue of being Ace.
  • Q*eer is a slur, not an umbrella term. Only SGA/MGA and Trans individuals can use it to identify themselves.

In closure, we are valid, we are loved and accepted by eachother, but we are not LGBT for being ace.

after this aerf shit, i think it should be clear enough to everyone that aces dont belong in the lgbt community. no matter how much they twist our terminology to be about them, no matter how much they make a case for inclusiveness, they do not belong.

 yes, there are aces who are also trans/gay/bi/etc that are in our community, but its not because theyre ace. the argument for inclusiveness undermines the reason the community exists and theyre rhetoric of them being historically part of the community is wrong too (historically it started as two seperate communites: gay and lesbian). 

they lack an understanding of the community and argue that any title related to sexuality is a ticket in, when in reality we have an exclusive community so we can have sanctuary from our oppressors. 

they argue that aces cant be straight, but see no issue in being gay and ace. to them, its only a seperate sexuality when its convenient. when lgbt people confront them, they stick their heads in the sand and call them aphobes. 

the fact of the matter is that they dont get to celebrate pride and they dont get to share our communities and resources because, simply put, these things are not for them. they can live their entire lives comfortably because theyre still straight and no ones been kicked out of their home and disowned for not liking sex or romance, whereas lgbt people around the world fear just that in addition to murder, rape, and other abuse. if not having sex made you lgbt, the pope would be lgbt supreme.

 they cry “oppression!” but all they do is devalue the word. theres nothing special about being celibate, and theres certainly nothing queer about it. ignoring all that, even within tumblr they prove themselves to be homophobic and transphobic while still trying to pretend they belong (read: the latest “aerf” drama). 

im sick of all of this. im sick of these entitled cishets shoehorning themselves into my community. i want it to be perfectly clear when i say that aces are not lgbt, nor are they queer, since they argue that queer (a term specifically targeted at lgbt people) is separate from lgbt.

tl;dr aces arent lgbt and need to examine their actions and their privilege they hold, because this discourse has been nothing but insulting to the lgbt community.

honestly cisgender heterosexual aromantics/cisgender heteromantic asexuals, TELL ME what you gain from being in the LGBT community that you don’t get otherwise

what are you missing in your life that you gain from being in the LGBT community

what resources are you lacking, like, what do you actually need from being in the LGBT community

are you at risk of being homeless? are you facing DV? do you need addiction treatment? do you need LGBT-specific mental health care?

what are you trying to get from the LGBT community??

Seriously because the LGBT community has emerged to provide resources and support to people facing violence, addiction, homelessness, underemployment, and other problems associated with homophobia and transphobia. It’s not just a fun social club.

What discrimination, stigma, violence, prejudice are you facing that requires the support of our community?

  • media creator: this character is asexual :)
  • ace people: oh wow! that's really neat! i'm really glad to see representation, both good and bad characters, in media!
  • you demons: yea except that character isn't ace they're gay coded bc they've acted flamboyantly and turned down people of the other binary gender before so please don't steal our characters. and if they're not gay they're straight bc they've never shown interest in dating anyone!! don't make things up it's just sad :))

aloeplantt  asked:

hey quick q idk if it's been answered already but have aros & aces historically been a part of the lgbt community? like whats the history? idk im just seein all this ace discourse & idk where to stand. ty!

All right, my answer may be long because I think it is important to make sure we have a nuanced discussion around this. 

The answer to this question is not a clear one. There are instances where asexual and aromantic people have been excluded from the queer community, but there are also instances where they have been included. 

The problem with saying “Aces have always been a part of the queer community” or “Aces have never been a part of the queer community” is that you will be wrong either way. 

Asexual and aromantic people have historically had to face exclusion from the queer community, and they still do today. They have also historically been a part of the queer community (I will always point people to The Golden Orchid because I think it is one of the most clear examples of asexual and aromantic inclusion in the queer community). 

So to have this discussion in a clear and healthy way we need to first divorce ourselves of the idea that the queer community is some monolithic thing. 

We have always had division; and in every place and in every time period the queer community is different. Queer people haven’t generally been able to organize on a global scale, so there is no truth of the queer community that is true everywhere and in every time. 

The internet has given us an advantage in that we can have discussions internationally within the queer community, which has never happened before to the scale it is happening today. Which makes right now a turning point for the queer community. 

The decisions we make today will be recorded in the history books of tomorrow. So it is time for us all to decide what kind of community we want to be. 

Throughout history we have examples of when our community has been exclusive and catered only to a select few identities, and we have examples of the opposite happening. We have examples of people coming together to fight for the rights and the safety of not only people who share their exact struggle but for people who face a whole different set of obstacles. And it is time for us all to decide what type of people we want to be remembered as.

The very word queer is vague which many people now find issue with but I think is a distinct advantage. It does not narrow our community down to a series of labels we care about. 

And if I have learned anything from my ongoing study of queer history, it is that how society has treated different sexual and gender identities has changed throughout time. And to assume that will stop with us seems pretty arrogant.

There have been times when being gay has been accepted in certain societies. But because of these times does that mean that gay people don’t deserve a place in the queer community? Of course not.

I fully believe there have been times when asexual and/or aromantic people have been fully accepted in society at certain points. But now is not that time. So we include them. We fight for them because right now that is what is needed. 

I love the queer community. For all it’s many flaws I have faith in it. One of the reasons I love it is because of how inclusive we have the power to be. 

I cannot make this decision for anyone else. But as someone who studies queer history, I can say that while the past can give us much, it is ultimately the present and the future we must make our decisions for.

Ace Positivity

I know that there has been a lot of negativity and discourse within the ace community for awhile now, but just remember their opinions are not a reflection of who you are.

You are Ace enough wherever you identify within the Ace-Spec.

You are Ace enough even if you are questioning.

You are Ace enough regardless of your views of sex.

You are Ace enough whether you are in a relationship or not.

You are Ace enough even if you don’t feel it.

You are Ace enough regardless of your romantic orientation.

You are Ace enough for whatever reason you are identifying your orientation.

You are a part of the Ace Community.

You are a part of the LGBTQIA+ Community. 

You deserve a place where you feel welcomed, respected, accepted, and safe. And I am truly sorry if some of you have not felt any of that recently. 

Don’t give others the power to define you. Don’t give others the power to tell you you don’t belong in your own community. Only you have the power to define you. Only you know who you are. Listen and trust in yourself. And you can participate in any part of the community where you feel safe. You belong here.

This blog completely welcomes and supports all of you. I am here for you and I believe in you. Let’s continue to grow and build as a community!  Let’s continue to show our pride. Let’s continue to spread Ace awareness and education. Let’s continue to correct and help others about our orientations. Let’s continue to drown out the negativity. Let’s continue on spreading that Ace Positivity!