delusion

Why INFPs do not copy others?

You said that Kylo Ren is an ENFP because because he copied the personality of an idol in order to gain immediate feelings, but this would no longer be Fi-Si seeking connections in which he values in the past?I’m an INFP and I spent a lot of my time trying to look like an ENTP and INTJ to feel better, I even wanted to act as an ENFP similar to Mello, but I realized that it was not assertive and quick like him … But it was practically a self-hypnosis. ( Actually I notice that I still have this thought, but I’m really looking for something more of my own, although I’m inspired by such a character.)     

Well, there are INFPs in fiction who pretend to pretend to be someone they are not, like Zuko trying to be an ESTJ, Soujirou who valued the ideas of his ENTJ mentor.     I think an ENFP repress these trends by having Si inf, and more originalide search.   Anyway, what do you think?

I think it is in the nature of all young people to emulate people they admire, but a Fi-dom would feel a much stronger pull toward originality much sooner than someone who lacks Fi as their dominant function.

People speculated Kylo Ren as a Fi-dom from the very first film, and I kept it in consideration but I never completely agreed with it. There’s a reason why Jung associates Fi-doms with “still waters run deep.” It’s because their emotions are often so intense and internalized that other people do not see them – and as a result, Fi-doms are not usually the type to have public meltdowns and tantrums. This is more in the realm of low Fe’s who don’t know how to control or deal with their feelings (so it erupts into violence or outbursts) or… extroverts, because with an extrovert, everything is much more immediate. I have seen introverts and Fi’s take months to boil over into rage, and extroverts that flare up within a matter of seconds and then cool down quickly. It happens, it’s over.

I considered him for IXTP in the first film, due to his emotional lack of control – but he shows no significant thinking process or detachment. No TJ loses their cool in the way he does either, so we’re left (stereotypically) with feeling types.

So, let’s talk about Kylo Ren and Fi-doms.

There’s two great examples of Fi-dom in Star Wars: Luke and Rey. Both are driven by their internal ethics, their sense of right and wrong, and their IMMEDIATE moral judgments framed in black and white ethics.

Immediate judgments, I might add, Kylo Ren does not have. With an unhealthy Fi-dom, you STILL expect immediate moral judgments – just warped. Like Arya Stark seeing an injustice and deciding that person should die because of it. She judges them according to her inner standards of right and wrong, decides they have forfeited the right to live, and has no problem slicing their throat. Kylo’s storyline is majorly screwed up, vague, unclear, and nebulous, but his motives seem to be driven by other things than THAT’S WRONG.

The Last Jedi shows a perfect example of Fi-dominance. Spoilers.

Luke had doubts about Ben, so he went into his tent one night and read his mind. Saw the darkness in his dreams. His immediate reaction (and he admits this) was to KILL his nephew. His pure and somewhat self-righteous Fi-dom saw something it disagreed with, something it feared, hated, and thought was flat out wrong, and screamed at him KILL IT. So he drew his light saber. Because Luke is a moral person, his second thought was, I can’t. Ben is his nephew, his blood, the son of his sister and best friend. I can’t kill him.

But it was too late.

When Rey hears this story, she has an immediate reverse on her former Fi opinion: before, she judged Kylo Ren on his actions: he killed Han Solo, he kidnapped and tortured her, he sliced open Finn. He is EVIL. A MONSTER.

Wait, so YOU created this monster, Luke? You were going to MURDER HIM? No wonder he’s angry about it!! You did not accept him!! You did not give him enough chances!

Her Fi has an immediate moral reaction to this, and suddenly she shifts: Ben can be reached. He was a scarred child. I know what it is to be abandoned! I can reach him! YOU are the one who is wrong, Luke! Judgment. Judgment out the wazoo, which then motivates every single choice she makes. She fights for Ben. She pleads with him. And when he asks her to join the Dark Side, she spurns him. At the end, she slams a literal door in his face. Fi-judgments.

Kylo is driven by his sense of isolation and loneliness, he wants to create a soul bond with someone who is like him, and in my opinion, shows plenty of Fi in the second film (no one understands me except you, I only want to be with people who are like me, my family did not understand and feared me, so I abandoned them, etc)… but a lot of his motives and rational reasoning hold water. It’s not Fi-dom driving the show, it’s a twisted aux-Fi speaking through Te reasoning: you and I have incredible power, we can shape the universe, join me! I have leadership! I know how to get things done! Come with me, Rey!

EXFPs struggle much more with something IXFPs do not, due to Te constantly harassing their Fi: extroverts focus on the external world, and look to it for guidance more than they look inside themselves (which can cause problems with their cognitive development, and cause a lot of EXFPs to have no idea who they truly are). Aux-Fi’s who feel inferior for being emotional, who are insecure about making emotional decisions, or who do not want to DEAL with their intense pain sometimes develop an unhealthy, sick attitude about Te based on stereotypical misunderstanding of EXTJs, which manifests in a personal belief that if “I can just shut out the world, if I can be cold, and detached, and achieve success, and dominate, and be ruthless and smart, no one can hurt me.” They develop fantasies and delusions about how impartial and logical they are, which everyone around them can see through except themselves, and often either their actions do not match their delusions or they start acting on their Te ruthless ambitions and become a force of selfishness and destruction.

Ne/Te loopers are skilled at seeing just far enough ahead to avert disaster, and stay one step ahead of other people – but just barely. Since they lack the long range capabilities of Ni, and their focus is more on the immediate, they can see the immediate intuitive potential and Te is very quick to race to rational reasoning and action to bring about instant accomplishment – but if their Fi is not involved, these harsh judgments lack compassion. For example, an ENFP might hear their enemy of war is within range or about the horrible actions a dictator happens to be taking, and their immediate Ne/Te conclusion is, “Kill him.” No compassion, and tert-Te isn’t near strong enough to think about the consequences (well, then, who runs the government? would anarchy follow? etc. etc); all it sees is the immediate possibilities and how to eradicate someone.

IXFPs struggle more with this due to inferior Te, but this is what I see Kylo Ren doing a lot. He takes a chance, because he sees an opportunity, and when that fails and his emotional reasoning falls flat, he says, SHOOT THEM. He succeeds a lot of the time because he has enough rationality / Te to make it work, but he can’t maintain it for very long before his anger / emotions kick in. Because fear and isolation drives him, Ben woke up in that tent, saw Luke standing over him with murder in his eye, reached the right AND wrong conclusion, and reacted with brutal, ruthless Te – he destroyed the entire place, murdered half the kids, and took the rest as his knights. It seems to me, even angry as he was, he had enough detachment / Te to be precise and tactical in what he did – don’t slaughter everyone, invite some of them along. Take them to Snoke. Become their leader.

The reason I chose Ne/Si was it feels like Kylo Ren focuses more on Rey’s abstract potential than Rey herself; if he had clearer, more objective Se reasoning, I think he would see she’s a lost cause, her Fi-dom ethics are too strong, he is never going to get through to her, but instead he clings to her out of… Fi attachment and sentiment? Lack of objectivity? She’s on the Se and Fi axis, and had zero problems seeing the brutal truth of him right from the start, but he’s acting under delusion and idealism. I’m still open to an ESFP typing for Kylo Ren; if he continues to abandon any remnant of the past / low Si / his ridiculous styling of himself after his grandpa / totally abandons her as a lost cause because he realizes he cannot corrupt her as the films progress and shows the same ruthless opportunism he did in this second installment, I’m happy to change his typing, but I really do not see him as a Fi-dom or an introvert. He seems like a tert-Te looper.

- ENFP Mod

When nothing exists and life is an illusion but there’s also multiple universes but it’s all just false and a dream caused by you being the universe keeping itself entertained but there’s also bugs inside you digging around but what if you’re just a ghost but what if i this is a dream but you can see yourself in the mirror except that’s Not You™

妄想ハンジ

私は実はハンジが一番好きなキャラクターなのですが、もしかしたら100話に出てくるかもしれない!!と思い(願望)妄想。
片目が見えないことを相手に悟られないように義眼入れてる…とか、立場もあるし、もしかしたらよそとも外交してるかもしれないから、ジャンあたりがヒストリアを巻き込んで女王命令として身綺麗にさせてる…とかアハハ…。

もうハンジロスがキツすぎてツライ〜!